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Does Islamic Heaven have pearly gates?

IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 12:30:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Does Islamic Heaven have pearly gates? I ask because the apostle John who testified that Jesus was God in the flesh coined the idea in the Christian Bible. So if Islamic Heaven has peraly gates, a crystal sea, or streets of gold, this terminology comes from someone who not only declared Jesus was God incarnate but was imprisoned for blasphemy by declaring such a thing, and died on Patmos for his faith. Point being, if Islamic HEaven resembles John's Heaven then the Islamic faith has quite the quandry on its hands. Either Jesus was not God incarnate or Islamic Heaven is false. One way or the other the Quran takes it face first into the pool of "this religion isn't right simply based on chronology and simple Algebra. If x=y and y=z but y is false then x and z are false too making the whole thing false.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 1:19:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 12:52:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
There was no Jesus and there is no heaven. Problem solved.

Intresting. A religion of 2.3 billion believers sprung from nowhere, Saul converted from Phariseeism to Christ in the first century for no reason. Judas killed himself over someone who didn't exist. Pontius Pilot had an invisble man crucified and washed his hands of the invisible man's blood. Constantine feared an invisible nonexisting man/god but nevertheless executed Christianity as the faith of the Roman Empire, the very Romans who crucified, well no one in your account. The early church suffered brutal deaths and persecution over their belief in no one. And AD and BC are based on the life of no one. Judaism had messianic prophecies for thousands of years and then none ever again after Jesus' life but yet Jesus did not exist. That was one powerful non existing man. His not life changed the entire world and the scope of history. His apostles were all executed/crucified in the name of well, someone they never knew and did not exist. But at least the early church built churches named after them. Josephus, a secular, nonbiblical account of the early Christian belief is wrong. And most notably, the greatest empire in the world at that time bowed down and uprooted its religion completely based on nothing and no Jesus. Early Christians were fed to lions in Roman colliseums for a belief in no one. And Roman history and the Bible are innaccurate in detailing the accounts of early Christianity. The Romans insult by using the word "Christian" to describe them did not exist either. That is a neat story you have there.
dee-em
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9/30/2015 1:35:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 1:19:53 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/30/2015 12:52:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
There was no Jesus and there is no heaven. Problem solved.

Intresting. A religion of 2.3 billion believers sprung from nowhere, Saul converted from Phariseeism to Christ in the first century for no reason. Judas killed himself over someone who didn't exist. Pontius Pilot had an invisble man crucified and washed his hands of the invisible man's blood. Constantine feared an invisible nonexisting man/god but nevertheless executed Christianity as the faith of the Roman Empire, the very Romans who crucified, well no one in your account. The early church suffered brutal deaths and persecution over their belief in no one. And AD and BC are based on the life of no one. Judaism had messianic prophecies for thousands of years and then none ever again after Jesus' life but yet Jesus did not exist. That was one powerful non existing man. His not life changed the entire world and the scope of history. His apostles were all executed/crucified in the name of well, someone they never knew and did not exist. But at least the early church built churches named after them. Josephus, a secular, nonbiblical account of the early Christian belief is wrong. And most notably, the greatest empire in the world at that time bowed down and uprooted its religion completely based on nothing and no Jesus. Early Christians were fed to lions in Roman colliseums for a belief in no one. And Roman history and the Bible are innaccurate in detailing the accounts of early Christianity. The Romans insult by using the word "Christian" to describe them did not exist either. That is a neat story you have there.

None of what you cite is history. I haven't denied Christianity as a religion existed. That would be foolish. However, the very name 'Christian' derives from a source other than a human being. Where have you provided evidence that Jesus of Nazareth actually existed? All you have is the words of religious zealots who created a myth. As have countless other religions.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 1:51:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tacitus"or more formally, Caius/Gaius (or Publius) Cornelius Tacitus (55/56"c. 118 C.E.)"was a Roman senator, orator and ethnographer, and arguably the best of Roman historians. His name is based on the Latin word tacitus, "silent," from which we get the English word tacit. Interestingly, his compact prose uses silence and implications in a masterful way. One argument for the authenticity of the quotation below is that it is written in true Tacitean Latin.4 But first a short introduction.

Roman historian Tacitus. Photo: Bibliotheque nationale, Paris, France / Giraudon / Bridgeman Images.
Tacitus"s last major work, titled Annals, written c. 116"117 C.E., includes a biography of Nero. In 64 C.E., during a fire in Rome, Nero was suspected of secretly ordering the burning of a part of town where he wanted to carry out a building project, so he tried to shift the blame to Christians. This was the occasion for Tacitus to mention Christians, whom he despised. This is what he wrote"the following excerpt is translated from Latin by Robert Van Voorst:

TACIT CONFIRMATION. Roman historian Tacitus"s last major work, Annals, mentions a "Christus" who was executed by Pontius Pilate and from whom the Christians derived their name. Tacitus"s brief reference corroborates historical details of Jesus" death from the New Testament. The pictured volume of Tacitus"s works is from the turn of the 17th century. The volume"s title page features Plantin Press"s printing mark depicting angels, a compass and the motto Labore et Constantia ("By Labor and Constancy"). Photo: Tacitus, Opera Quae Exstant, trans. by Justus Lipsius (Antwerp, Belgium: Ex officina Plantiniana, apud Joannem Moretum, 1600). Courtesy of the Philadelphia Rare Books & Manuscripts Co. (PRB&M).

[N]either human effort nor the emperor"s generosity nor the placating of the gods ended the scandalous belief that the fire had been ordered [by Nero]. Therefore, to put down the rumor, Nero substituted as culprits and punished in the most unusual ways those hated for their shameful acts " whom the crowd called "Chrestians." The founder of this name, Christ [Christus in Latin], had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate " Suppressed for a time, the deadly superstition erupted again not only in Judea, the origin of this evil, but also in the city [Rome], where all things horrible and shameful from everywhere come together and become popular.5
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 1:57:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Tacitus"s terse statement about "Christus" clearly corroborates the New Testament on certain historical details of Jesus" death. Tacitus presents four pieces of accurate knowledge about Jesus: (1) Christus, used by Tacitus to refer to Jesus, was one distinctive way by which some referred to him, even though Tacitus mistakenly took it for a personal name rather than an epithet or title; (2) this Christus was associated with the beginning of the movement of Christians, whose name originated from his; (3) he was executed by the Roman governor of Judea; and (4) the time of his death was during Pontius Pilate"s governorship of Judea, during the reign of Tiberius. (Many New Testament scholars date Jesus" death to c. 29 C.E.; Pilate governed Judea in 26"36 C.E., while Tiberius was emperor 14"37 C.E.6)

Tacitus, like classical authors in general, does not reveal the source(s) he used. But this should not detract from our confidence in Tacitus"s assertions. Scholars generally disagree about what his sources were. Tacitus was certainly among Rome"s best historians"arguably the best of all"at the top of his game as a historian and never given to careless writing.

Earlier in his career, when Tacitus was Proconsul of Asia,7 he likely supervised trials, questioned people accused of being Christians and judged and punished those whom he found guilty, as his friend Pliny the Younger had done when he too was a provincial governor. Thus Tacitus stood a very good chance of becoming aware of information that he characteristically would have wanted to verify before accepting it as true.8

CHRESTIANS OF CHRIST. Book XV of Tacitus"s Annals is preserved in the 11th"12th-century Codex Mediceus II, a collection of medieval manuscripts now housed in the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana in Florence, Italy, along with other manuscripts and books that belonged to the Medici family. Highlighted above is the Latin text reading "" whom the crowd called "Chrestians." The founder of this name, Christ, had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate "" Photo: Codex Mediceus 68 II, fol. 38r, the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana, Florence, Italy.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 2:00:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
e other strong evidence that speaks directly about Jesus as a real person comes from Josephus, a Jewish priest who grew up as an aristocrat in first-century Palestine and ended up living in Rome, supported by the patronage of three successive emperors. In the early days of the first Jewish Revolt against Rome (66"70 C.E.), Josephus was a commander in Galilee but soon surrendered and became a prisoner of war. He then prophesied that his conqueror, the Roman commander Vespasian, would become emperor, and when this actually happened, Vespasian freed him. "From then on Josephus lived in Rome under the protection of the Flavians and there composed his historical and apologetic writings" (Gerd Theissen and Annette Merz).9 He even took the name Flavius, after the family name of his patron, the emperor Vespasian, and set it before his birth name, becoming, in true Roman style, Flavius Josephus. Most Jews viewed him as a despicable traitor. It was by command of Vespasian"s son Titus that a Roman army in 70 C.E. destroyed Jerusalem and burned the Temple, stealing its contents as spoils of war, which are partly portrayed in the imagery of their gloating triumph on the Arch of Titus in Rome.10 After Titus succeeded his father as emperor, Josephus accepted the son"s imperial patronage, as he did of Titus"s brother and successor, Domitian.

Yet in his own mind, Josephus remained a Jew both in his outlook and in his writings that extol Judaism. At the same time, by aligning himself with Roman emperors who were at that time the worst enemies of the Jewish people, he chose to ignore Jewish popular opinion.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 2:05:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 2:02:25 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I'm tired of copying and pasting. The thing is a mile long.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...

But in reality I have evidence in that my prayers are answered in Jesus' name. And this only came over time by having faith first.
dee-em
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9/30/2015 2:28:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 1:51:37 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Tacitus"or more formally, Caius/Gaius (or Publius) Cornelius Tacitus (55/56"c. 118 C.E.)"was a Roman senator, orator and ethnographer, and arguably the best of Roman historians. His name is based on the Latin word tacitus, "silent," from which we get the English word tacit. Interestingly, his compact prose uses silence and implications in a masterful way. One argument for the authenticity of the quotation below is that it is written in true Tacitean Latin.4 But first a short introduction.

Roman historian Tacitus. Photo: Bibliotheque nationale, Paris, France / Giraudon / Bridgeman Images.
Tacitus"s last major work, titled Annals, written c. 116"117 C.E., includes a biography of Nero. In 64 C.E., during a fire in Rome, Nero was suspected of secretly ordering the burning of a part of town where he wanted to carry out a building project, so he tried to shift the blame to Christians. This was the occasion for Tacitus to mention Christians, whom he despised. This is what he wrote"the following excerpt is translated from Latin by Robert Van Voorst:


TACIT CONFIRMATION. Roman historian Tacitus"s last major work, Annals, mentions a "Christus" who was executed by Pontius Pilate and from whom the Christians derived their name. Tacitus"s brief reference corroborates historical details of Jesus" death from the New Testament. The pictured volume of Tacitus"s works is from the turn of the 17th century. The volume"s title page features Plantin Press"s printing mark depicting angels, a compass and the motto Labore et Constantia ("By Labor and Constancy"). Photo: Tacitus, Opera Quae Exstant, trans. by Justus Lipsius (Antwerp, Belgium: Ex officina Plantiniana, apud Joannem Moretum, 1600). Courtesy of the Philadelphia Rare Books & Manuscripts Co. (PRB&M).

[N]either human effort nor the emperor"s generosity nor the placating of the gods ended the scandalous belief that the fire had been ordered [by Nero]. Therefore, to put down the rumor, Nero substituted as culprits and punished in the most unusual ways those hated for their shameful acts " whom the crowd called "Chrestians." The founder of this name, Christ [Christus in Latin], had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate " Suppressed for a time, the deadly superstition erupted again not only in Judea, the origin of this evil, but also in the city [Rome], where all things horrible and shameful from everywhere come together and become popular.5

That is at best hearsay written many decades later by someone merely recording the beliefs of Chrestians (as Tacitus actually wrote). It proves nothing about the historicity of Jesus. In fact, the name Jesus doesn't even come up. We only get a Christus.

This is what Theophilus a Christian bishop of Antioch wrote circa 180CE:

Book I
CHAP. XII.--MEANING OF THE NAME CHRISTIAN.

And about your laughing at me and calling me "Christian," you know not what you are saying. First, because that which is anointed is sweet and serviceable, and far from contemptible. For what ship can be serviceable and seaworthy, unless it be first caulked [anointed]? Or what castle or house is beautiful and serviceable when it has not been anointed? And what man, when he enters into this life or into the gymnasium, is not anointed with oil? And what work has either ornament or beauty unless it be anointed and burnished? Then the air and all that is under heaven is in a certain sort anointed by light and spirit; and are you unwilling to be anointed with the oil of God? Wherefore we are called Christians on this account, because we are anointed with the oil of God.


Hmmm. No mention of a Jesus or even a Christus. How odd.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 2:44:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 2:28:57 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/30/2015 1:51:37 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Tacitus"or more formally, Caius/Gaius (or Publius) Cornelius Tacitus (55/56"c. 118 C.E.)"was a Roman senator, orator and ethnographer, and arguably the best of Roman historians. His name is based on the Latin word tacitus, "silent," from which we get the English word tacit. Interestingly, his compact prose uses silence and implications in a masterful way. One argument for the authenticity of the quotation below is that it is written in true Tacitean Latin.4 But first a short introduction.

Roman historian Tacitus. Photo: Bibliotheque nationale, Paris, France / Giraudon / Bridgeman Images.
Tacitus"s last major work, titled Annals, written c. 116"117 C.E., includes a biography of Nero. In 64 C.E., during a fire in Rome, Nero was suspected of secretly ordering the burning of a part of town where he wanted to carry out a building project, so he tried to shift the blame to Christians. This was the occasion for Tacitus to mention Christians, whom he despised. This is what he wrote"the following excerpt is translated from Latin by Robert Van Voorst:


TACIT CONFIRMATION. Roman historian Tacitus"s last major work, Annals, mentions a "Christus" who was executed by Pontius Pilate and from whom the Christians derived their name. Tacitus"s brief reference corroborates historical details of Jesus" death from the New Testament. The pictured volume of Tacitus"s works is from the turn of the 17th century. The volume"s title page features Plantin Press"s printing mark depicting angels, a compass and the motto Labore et Constantia ("By Labor and Constancy"). Photo: Tacitus, Opera Quae Exstant, trans. by Justus Lipsius (Antwerp, Belgium: Ex officina Plantiniana, apud Joannem Moretum, 1600). Courtesy of the Philadelphia Rare Books & Manuscripts Co. (PRB&M).

[N]either human effort nor the emperor"s generosity nor the placating of the gods ended the scandalous belief that the fire had been ordered [by Nero]. Therefore, to put down the rumor, Nero substituted as culprits and punished in the most unusual ways those hated for their shameful acts " whom the crowd called "Chrestians." The founder of this name, Christ [Christus in Latin], had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate " Suppressed for a time, the deadly superstition erupted again not only in Judea, the origin of this evil, but also in the city [Rome], where all things horrible and shameful from everywhere come together and become popular.5

That is at best hearsay written many decades later by someone merely recording the beliefs of Chrestians (as Tacitus actually wrote). It proves nothing about the historicity of Jesus. In fact, the name Jesus doesn't even come up. We only get a Christus.

This is what Theophilus a Christian bishop of Antioch wrote circa 180CE:

Book I
CHAP. XII.--MEANING OF THE NAME CHRISTIAN.

And about your laughing at me and calling me "Christian," you know not what you are saying. First, because that which is anointed is sweet and serviceable, and far from contemptible. For what ship can be serviceable and seaworthy, unless it be first caulked [anointed]? Or what castle or house is beautiful and serviceable when it has not been anointed? And what man, when he enters into this life or into the gymnasium, is not anointed with oil? And what work has either ornament or beauty unless it be anointed and burnished? Then the air and all that is under heaven is in a certain sort anointed by light and spirit; and are you unwilling to be anointed with the oil of God? Wherefore we are called Christians on this account, because we are anointed with the oil of God.


Hmmm. No mention of a Jesus or even a Christus. How odd.

We can counter any historical figure's actual existence if we want to. Based on your type of account Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar could have been invented or fabricated so we have to go with what is available that does depict the person. Nevertheless, my faith is not based on any such semantical argument. After enough miraculous answered prayers you just laugh, shake your head and keep on looking up. It's simple. You have to get out of your own way. Then you hear and see God. Otherwise, you will never hear or see. I used to be you. It's better over here. ;-)
dee-em
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9/30/2015 2:49:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 2:00:20 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
e other strong evidence that speaks directly about Jesus as a real person comes from Josephus, a Jewish priest who grew up as an aristocrat in first-century Palestine and ended up living in Rome, supported by the patronage of three successive emperors. In the early days of the first Jewish Revolt against Rome (66"70 C.E.), Josephus was a commander in Galilee but soon surrendered and became a prisoner of war. He then prophesied that his conqueror, the Roman commander Vespasian, would become emperor, and when this actually happened, Vespasian freed him. "From then on Josephus lived in Rome under the protection of the Flavians and there composed his historical and apologetic writings" (Gerd Theissen and Annette Merz).9 He even took the name Flavius, after the family name of his patron, the emperor Vespasian, and set it before his birth name, becoming, in true Roman style, Flavius Josephus. Most Jews viewed him as a despicable traitor. It was by command of Vespasian"s son Titus that a Roman army in 70 C.E. destroyed Jerusalem and burned the Temple, stealing its contents as spoils of war, which are partly portrayed in the imagery of their gloating triumph on the Arch of Titus in Rome.10 After Titus succeeded his father as emperor, Josephus accepted the son"s imperial patronage, as he did of Titus"s brother and successor, Domitian.

Yet in his own mind, Josephus remained a Jew both in his outlook and in his writings that extol Judaism. At the same time, by aligning himself with Roman emperors who were at that time the worst enemies of the Jewish people, he chose to ignore Jewish popular opinion.

Same thing. Probably an interpolation by later Christians but even if not, only evidence for Christian beliefs and nothing more.

Do you have someone actually contemporary with the alleged life of Jesus? Here, let me help you. Try Philo of Alexandria who actually visited Judea around the time these supposed tumultuous events were unfolding or had unfolded.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...

Not a word about a Jesus of Nazareth. How peculiar.
dee-em
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9/30/2015 2:52:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 2:02:25 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I'm tired of copying and pasting. The thing is a mile long.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...

What a fantastic unbiased source! Lol.
dee-em
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9/30/2015 2:56:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 2:05:00 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/30/2015 2:02:25 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I'm tired of copying and pasting. The thing is a mile long.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...

But in reality I have evidence in that my prayers are answered in Jesus' name. And this only came over time by having faith first.

When you have faith first, evidence is superfluous. In fact it is not hard to delude yourself about evidence when you have faith.

Try praying for world peace effective tomorrow. Or for an amputee to regrow a limb. Let me know when your prayers have been answered. Lol.
dee-em
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9/30/2015 3:05:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 2:44:14 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/30/2015 2:28:57 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/30/2015 1:51:37 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Tacitus"or more formally, Caius/Gaius (or Publius) Cornelius Tacitus (55/56"c. 118 C.E.)"was a Roman senator, orator and ethnographer, and arguably the best of Roman historians. His name is based on the Latin word tacitus, "silent," from which we get the English word tacit. Interestingly, his compact prose uses silence and implications in a masterful way. One argument for the authenticity of the quotation below is that it is written in true Tacitean Latin.4 But first a short introduction.

Roman historian Tacitus. Photo: Bibliotheque nationale, Paris, France / Giraudon / Bridgeman Images.
Tacitus"s last major work, titled Annals, written c. 116"117 C.E., includes a biography of Nero. In 64 C.E., during a fire in Rome, Nero was suspected of secretly ordering the burning of a part of town where he wanted to carry out a building project, so he tried to shift the blame to Christians. This was the occasion for Tacitus to mention Christians, whom he despised. This is what he wrote"the following excerpt is translated from Latin by Robert Van Voorst:


TACIT CONFIRMATION. Roman historian Tacitus"s last major work, Annals, mentions a "Christus" who was executed by Pontius Pilate and from whom the Christians derived their name. Tacitus"s brief reference corroborates historical details of Jesus" death from the New Testament. The pictured volume of Tacitus"s works is from the turn of the 17th century. The volume"s title page features Plantin Press"s printing mark depicting angels, a compass and the motto Labore et Constantia ("By Labor and Constancy"). Photo: Tacitus, Opera Quae Exstant, trans. by Justus Lipsius (Antwerp, Belgium: Ex officina Plantiniana, apud Joannem Moretum, 1600). Courtesy of the Philadelphia Rare Books & Manuscripts Co. (PRB&M).

[N]either human effort nor the emperor"s generosity nor the placating of the gods ended the scandalous belief that the fire had been ordered [by Nero]. Therefore, to put down the rumor, Nero substituted as culprits and punished in the most unusual ways those hated for their shameful acts " whom the crowd called "Chrestians." The founder of this name, Christ [Christus in Latin], had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate " Suppressed for a time, the deadly superstition erupted again not only in Judea, the origin of this evil, but also in the city [Rome], where all things horrible and shameful from everywhere come together and become popular.5

That is at best hearsay written many decades later by someone merely recording the beliefs of Chrestians (as Tacitus actually wrote). It proves nothing about the historicity of Jesus. In fact, the name Jesus doesn't even come up. We only get a Christus.

This is what Theophilus a Christian bishop of Antioch wrote circa 180CE:

Book I
CHAP. XII.--MEANING OF THE NAME CHRISTIAN.

And about your laughing at me and calling me "Christian," you know not what you are saying. First, because that which is anointed is sweet and serviceable, and far from contemptible. For what ship can be serviceable and seaworthy, unless it be first caulked [anointed]? Or what castle or house is beautiful and serviceable when it has not been anointed? And what man, when he enters into this life or into the gymnasium, is not anointed with oil? And what work has either ornament or beauty unless it be anointed and burnished? Then the air and all that is under heaven is in a certain sort anointed by light and spirit; and are you unwilling to be anointed with the oil of God? Wherefore we are called Christians on this account, because we are anointed with the oil of God.


Hmmm. No mention of a Jesus or even a Christus. How odd.

We can counter any historical figure's actual existence if we want to. Based on your type of account Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar could have been invented or fabricated so we have to go with what is available that does depict the person.

The only extrinsic evidence for Jesus is two or three terse and suspect passages by Roman historians decades after the alleged events. Do you really believe that the evidence for Alexander the Great and Augustus Caesar is on a par with that? Lol.

Nevertheless, my faith is not based on any such semantical argument.

Semantical? Are you kidding?

After enough miraculous answered prayers you just laugh, shake your head and keep on looking up. It's simple. You have to get out of your own way. Then you hear and see God. Otherwise, you will never hear or see. I used to be you. It's better over here. ;-)

Sure. Ignorance is bliss. Delusion saves you having to think for yourself. I can see the attraction to some.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:05:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 2:52:04 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/30/2015 2:02:25 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I'm tired of copying and pasting. The thing is a mile long.

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...

What a fantastic unbiased source! Lol.

I studied until my brain hurt. There is no way to 100% prove 2,000 year old ideas nor is there meant to be. There are people who question the Holocaust. You can rebutal all day long. They will never believe. You will never know if you don't have faith. God only shows himself when you have faith. You'll have to try it some time to offer a debate about how you tried faith and whether it worked for you. If you want the answer, that is you will have to go about it. God doesn't seek knowledge. He has knowledge. He waits for you to come to Him as a child approaches their Father. Faith hope and love. Try them on. Prove me wrong.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:11:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 3:05:04 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/30/2015 2:44:14 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 9/30/2015 2:28:57 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 9/30/2015 1:51:37 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Tacitus"or more formally, Caius/Gaius (or Publius) Cornelius Tacitus (55/56"c. 118 C.E.)"was a Roman senator, orator and ethnographer, and arguably the best of Roman historians. His name is based on the Latin word tacitus, "silent," from which we get the English word tacit. Interestingly, his compact prose uses silence and implications in a masterful way. One argument for the authenticity of the quotation below is that it is written in true Tacitean Latin.4 But first a short introduction.

Roman historian Tacitus. Photo: Bibliotheque nationale, Paris, France / Giraudon / Bridgeman Images.
Tacitus"s last major work, titled Annals, written c. 116"117 C.E., includes a biography of Nero. In 64 C.E., during a fire in Rome, Nero was suspected of secretly ordering the burning of a part of town where he wanted to carry out a building project, so he tried to shift the blame to Christians. This was the occasion for Tacitus to mention Christians, whom he despised. This is what he wrote"the following excerpt is translated from Latin by Robert Van Voorst:


TACIT CONFIRMATION. Roman historian Tacitus"s last major work, Annals, mentions a "Christus" who was executed by Pontius Pilate and from whom the Christians derived their name. Tacitus"s brief reference corroborates historical details of Jesus" death from the New Testament. The pictured volume of Tacitus"s works is from the turn of the 17th century. The volume"s title page features Plantin Press"s printing mark depicting angels, a compass and the motto Labore et Constantia ("By Labor and Constancy"). Photo: Tacitus, Opera Quae Exstant, trans. by Justus Lipsius (Antwerp, Belgium: Ex officina Plantiniana, apud Joannem Moretum, 1600). Courtesy of the Philadelphia Rare Books & Manuscripts Co. (PRB&M).

[N]either human effort nor the emperor"s generosity nor the placating of the gods ended the scandalous belief that the fire had been ordered [by Nero]. Therefore, to put down the rumor, Nero substituted as culprits and punished in the most unusual ways those hated for their shameful acts " whom the crowd called "Chrestians." The founder of this name, Christ [Christus in Latin], had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate " Suppressed for a time, the deadly superstition erupted again not only in Judea, the origin of this evil, but also in the city [Rome], where all things horrible and shameful from everywhere come together and become popular.5

That is at best hearsay written many decades later by someone merely recording the beliefs of Chrestians (as Tacitus actually wrote). It proves nothing about the historicity of Jesus. In fact, the name Jesus doesn't even come up. We only get a Christus.

This is what Theophilus a Christian bishop of Antioch wrote circa 180CE:

Book I
CHAP. XII.--MEANING OF THE NAME CHRISTIAN.

And about your laughing at me and calling me "Christian," you know not what you are saying. First, because that which is anointed is sweet and serviceable, and far from contemptible. For what ship can be serviceable and seaworthy, unless it be first caulked [anointed]? Or what castle or house is beautiful and serviceable when it has not been anointed? And what man, when he enters into this life or into the gymnasium, is not anointed with oil? And what work has either ornament or beauty unless it be anointed and burnished? Then the air and all that is under heaven is in a certain sort anointed by light and spirit; and are you unwilling to be anointed with the oil of God? Wherefore we are called Christians on this account, because we are anointed with the oil of God.


Hmmm. No mention of a Jesus or even a Christus. How odd.

We can counter any historical figure's actual existence if we want to. Based on your type of account Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar could have been invented or fabricated so we have to go with what is available that does depict the person.

The only extrinsic evidence for Jesus is two or three terse and suspect passages by Roman historians decades after the alleged events. Do you really believe that the evidence for Alexander the Great and Augustus Caesar is on a par with that? Lol.

Nevertheless, my faith is not based on any such semantical argument.

Semantical? Are you kidding?

After enough miraculous answered prayers you just laugh, shake your head and keep on looking up. It's simple. You have to get out of your own way. Then you hear and see God. Otherwise, you will never hear or see. I used to be you. It's better over here. ;-)

Sure. Ignorance is bliss. Delusion saves you having to think for yourself. I can see the attraction to some.

Yes semantical. If you cannot prove jesus didn't exist and I cannot 100% prove to you he did then by the very definition, it is semantics to argue the idea.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:14:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You say it keeps me from having to think which is where you beyond getting off the psth and into the trees. Here's you one to think on.

http://youtu.be...
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:18:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Here"s you one to chew on from Richard Dawkins himself. Intelligent design the dangerously close brother to Creationism. Yikes. Remember don't keep yourself from thinking...

http://youtu.be...
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:22:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The dogmatic doorway of closed mindedness is found in those of faith and those without equally. Remember, think...

Science didn't need God once it was found that our reality was much bigger than originally thought. But now Cosmologists are being forced to reconsider this position...

https://youtu.be...
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:26:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
ISIS beheads Christians in Libya"

http://www.cnn.com......

"ISIS declares war on the cross. 21 Christians beheaded"

http://www.ijreview.com......

"ISIS executes 30 Christians by beheading"

http://m.therightscoop.com......

"Christian children executed in Iraq"

http://www.israelvideonetwork.com......

" 'Lord Jesus Christ' last words of Egyptian Christians"

http://youtu.be......

"Kenya Garissa University: Christian victims beheaded for not knowing the Koran"

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk......
TheWORDisLIFE
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9/30/2015 3:26:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 12:30:51 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Does Islamic Heaven have pearly gates? I ask because the apostle John who testified that Jesus was God in the flesh coined the idea in the Christian Bible. So if Islamic Heaven has peraly gates, a crystal sea, or streets of gold, this terminology comes from someone who not only declared Jesus was God incarnate but was imprisoned for blasphemy by declaring such a thing, and died on Patmos for his faith. Point being, if Islamic HEaven resembles John's Heaven then the Islamic faith has quite the quandry on its hands. Either Jesus was not God incarnate or Islamic Heaven is false. One way or the other the Quran takes it face first into the pool of "this religion isn't right simply based on chronology and simple Algebra. If x=y and y=z but y is false then x and z are false too making the whole thing false.

First off, where in the hell does it say Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus came from the seed of man (Joseph).
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:29:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:35:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Now that we are clear on whether I choose to think or not. I am better studied on Richard Dawkins, Biologist, Atheist and author than any Atheist I have engaged on this forum. It is because I love listening to him. Some of his speeches have actually strengthened my faith. He is starting to follow my lead on Islam and beginning to see what is really going on. Taquiyya is the silent jihadists movement sweeping in the shadows. I have sent him messages on this very subject. His ability to hear the call of certain creationists is why I will 3ven consider his points of view. He can hear mine so I can hear his.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:38:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 3:26:57 AM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 9/30/2015 12:30:51 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Does Islamic Heaven have pearly gates? I ask because the apostle John who testified that Jesus was God in the flesh coined the idea in the Christian Bible. So if Islamic Heaven has peraly gates, a crystal sea, or streets of gold, this terminology comes from someone who not only declared Jesus was God incarnate but was imprisoned for blasphemy by declaring such a thing, and died on Patmos for his faith. Point being, if Islamic HEaven resembles John's Heaven then the Islamic faith has quite the quandry on its hands. Either Jesus was not God incarnate or Islamic Heaven is false. One way or the other the Quran takes it face first into the pool of "this religion isn't right simply based on chronology and simple Algebra. If x=y and y=z but y is false then x and z are false too making the whole thing false.

First off, where in the hell does it say Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus came from the seed of man (Joseph).

Might want to read that one over again.
TheWORDisLIFE
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9/30/2015 3:49:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/30/2015 3:43:31 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1

Ok so Jesus is the word (john 1:14). So if Jesus is God how can he be 'WITH' God at the same time. Maybe you can also explain Psalm 110:1?

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said vnto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand: vntil I make thine enemies thy footestoole.

There are two Lords here, are they both Jesus? Explain.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:50:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
New International Version
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth

John 1:14
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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9/30/2015 3:55:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Jesus said I stand at the "right hand" of the power of God. He said I and the Father are one.

Jesus is the human version of god. Someone we can fathom, touch, relate to and be fairly judged by. How could Allah judge fairly if he's never been human.

If Allah said hey I'm coming down as some guy named Muhammed Jabar Abdul does that make him not Allah?