Total Posts:40|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

A Religious Debate on Campus

Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 8:16:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
So, my club, Atheists Agnostics and Freethinkers, got challenged to a debate by a Christian organization on campus.

Here is the challenge email:

This is *********, Pastor of Emmaus College Church here on campus. I hope you're have a great semester so far.

Your chalk drawings have caused quite a stir on campus! It has compelled me to network with a local apologetics group I know, in order to hopefully set up a debate on campus between a scholarly representative from our group, and a scholarly representative that you guys know of.

Let me know if this would be of interest to you guys. We could begin talking about some dates and topics. Hopefully we could set this up soon, while your chalk drawings are creating so much interest in religion around campus.

I also have a more prestigious contact in the realm of apologetics who would be willing to come do a debate in January (preferably Tuesday, January 25th). We can talk more about that too.

Hopefully we will talk soon - we could grab coffee or something, or just talk over the phone. I also messaged ******* about this, so maybe all 3 of us could get together. Talk with you soon!


I brought this up to our meeting last night and the group decided on doing the debate.

Here is how we think it should go down:

It should be a panel debate (3 to 4 people). Student representatives from each group should debate. We will be hiring a moderator from the debate team on campus to get an unbiased, point based system. There will be a Q & A at the end of the debate to get the audience involved. We'll be renting out one of the big lecture halls for the event and advertising for a few weeks. The debate will happen before the end of October.

Here are some questions I have for you guys - since, well, this is a debate website and you guys are the ones to ask :)

What should our topics be?

What type of debate should this be? (Example, LD? Fact based?)

Is there anything I said above that sounds off in the way we are going to handle it or any other comments on the Pastor's email to us?

I contacted him with the go ahead for the debate today. We are going to be meeting up for coffee very soon so that we can discuss topics and everything else.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 8:24:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Also - we will be having Judges who are not going to be a part of either group. Possibly Forensics team members.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 8:52:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't know how general or specific you want your topics to be but:

God's existence (obvious)
The reliability of the Bible
Jesus' ressurrection
The Problem of Evil

Those are a few. I could mention much more specific debate topics.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 8:56:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Publicly debating Christians isn't fun. Usually, they don't have the intellectual honesty of a William Lane Craig or popculturepooka. I don't know what sort of person they plan on fielding, but be prepared for the Duane Gish type and the infamous Gish Gallop. Also, if it's taking place in an auditorium or some or other public place, they will probably advertise the event at all the local churches to try to stack the audience.

Dos:

- Rehearse your answers to the most common arguments for the existence of God. Trust me, this helps a LOT.
- Know your opponent: find out what arguments he likes to use and what his style of debating is, level of experience, etc.
- Try to be funny, but make sure you don't come across as mean.
- Don't allow him to control the conversation. He will probably try evade you on areas he is weak in.

Don'ts:

- Be overconfident and neglect to prepare.
- Be dry and boring
- Appear condescending
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 8:58:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Could you video and youtube it?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 9:00:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/16/2010 8:16:06 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
What should our topics be?
-The alleged crucifixion
-Trinity is supported by the Bible
-Jesus' role (God according to Christians)
-Mosaic Law was abolished by Jesus

The Pastor will obviously be PRO, so your team is CON. Ask for any help if needed, I got it all covered.

I am not sure if you are interested in this, but I can help a lot:

-Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is predicted in the Bible

What type of debate should this be? (Example, LD? Fact based?)
Fact, from the Bible. If it is about Trinity, for example, you do not need any logical refutations besides from the text of the Bible itself.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 11:17:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
What should our topics be?
God, Rights of the Church, Christian Upbringing.
What type of debate should this be? (Example, LD? Fact based?)
3~4 team debates use british parliamentary style, the de facto international standard.
Is there anything I said above that sounds off in the way we are going to handle it or any other comments on the Pastor's email to us?
I don't think so.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 11:35:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Topic ideas:

God is NOT great and (Western) religion poisons everything.

Is it reasonable to believe in God.

Morality without religion.

Secular morality is superior to religious morality.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 12:35:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Basically, a Theologically based one (Existence of God, maybe something to do with the Universes creation?), a Church vs. State Issue, and then perhaps a debate specifically composed on the topic of Christianity?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Johnicle
Posts: 888
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 11:07:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
A very important item to bring up is how much religion effects people.

Topic something like: If God does not exist, is it beneficial to believe?

Then bringing up things like 9/11, and how most religious groups desire ending the world. Not to mention the radical things that people do because of their belief (kill their children, prevent condom use (spreading AIDs), etc. I even heard of someone who refused to diet because they didn't want to disrespect how "God made her". People who hear God telling them to kill others (Moses). Which can bring up another good argument:

In today's world, someone who kills another and says that God told them to do it. We would disregard them and call them crazy. However, this happens ALL THE TIME in the Bible. Why don't we call them crazy? (Well I do lol)

Anyway there are a lot of debates about this on youtube. Although I wouldn't suggest having them vote. This sort of debate shouldn't have an outcome other than effecting the people who were there. If anything, you should poll their beliefs before the debate (religious, non-religious, agnostic/undecided), then poll them after to see if anyone's opinion changed. But a vote at the end proves nothing other than who has the greater representation present.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 11:44:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I even heard of someone who refused to diet because they didn't want to disrespect how "God made her".

I hold a secular veiw very similar. I am how I am and I'm not going to change what I eat just to look good for someone else. If they don't wanna look at me fine, if they don't wanna be around me fine, but I'm not changing myself.

I don't see how being proud of how you look and not wanting to change yourself is harmful.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/16/2010 11:54:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/16/2010 11:44:06 PM, lovelife wrote:
I even heard of someone who refused to diet because they didn't want to disrespect how "God made her".

I hold a secular veiw very similar. I am how I am and I'm not going to change what I eat just to look good for someone else. If they don't wanna look at me fine, if they don't wanna be around me fine, but I'm not changing myself.

I don't see how being proud of how you look and not wanting to change yourself is harmful.

There's more reasons to look good than for other people. I like to look good for my own sake because I'd rather be pleased by my appearance in the mirror than shutter when I look in the mirror. Basically, it boosts your own confidence so it's for your own benefit, not others'.

(Damn, major thread derail, lol)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2010 7:51:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/16/2010 11:44:06 PM, lovelife wrote:
I even heard of someone who refused to diet because they didn't want to disrespect how "God made her".

I hold a secular veiw very similar. I am how I am and I'm not going to change what I eat just to look good for someone else. If they don't wanna look at me fine, if they don't wanna be around me fine, but I'm not changing myself.

I don't see how being proud of how you look and not wanting to change yourself is harmful.

its not in itself, but if you are unhealthy then you are putting yourself at risk for a lot of health problems down the line... its quite different when someone 10 lbs overweight says that as compared to someone who is morbidly obese.

i also heard a woman say to her friend once "no you can't be fat in heaven because you're always healthy there"... so i guess thats the flipside.

as for the original topic- existence of god and religion does more harm than good i think are probably the best two options. secular morality is extremely difficult to argue for well and to make a strong argument you generally have to get pretty technical. not good for an audience setting imo.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2010 9:01:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/16/2010 11:54:00 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/16/2010 11:44:06 PM, lovelife wrote:
I even heard of someone who refused to diet because they didn't want to disrespect how "God made her".

I hold a secular veiw very similar. I am how I am and I'm not going to change what I eat just to look good for someone else. If they don't wanna look at me fine, if they don't wanna be around me fine, but I'm not changing myself.

I don't see how being proud of how you look and not wanting to change yourself is harmful.

There's more reasons to look good than for other people. I like to look good for my own sake because I'd rather be pleased by my appearance in the mirror than shutter when I look in the mirror. Basically, it boosts your own confidence so it's for your own benefit, not others'.


Eh, I don't really tend to care. There are sometime when I notice that I am attractive makes me feel good, sometimes when I notice I'm not at all,
I don't really care lol.
For health, I doubt I'd stop eating cheesecake if I had diabetes. Life is about living quality, not quantity.

(Damn, major thread derail, lol)

Oh damn sorry about that.
I do think it would be best to debate harm vs good that religion causes. Maybe also argue about women in power, gay marriage, and secular laws.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2010 10:23:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ok, we are meeting today at 5 pm so I will get back to you guys with details :) I will give one of our members a camera to record the event so you guys can watch the debate! I will probably be on the panel :D

Thank you all for your input!
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 6:00:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/16/2010 8:16:06 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
What should our topics be?

What type of debate should this be? (Example, LD? Fact based?)

Whatever topic is decided upon it would probably be warranted that those debating whatever position(s) do some solid philo research before hand to support their position (especially since it sounds like the pastor will be sending in someone decent).

As to the the topic, I would suggest either ethics (for objective morality to exist, God must, or some such thing). Historical arguments are also fun; historical case for Jesus would be interesting.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 9:45:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Oh yeah, and the compatibility or incompatibility of science and religion would be good too.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 12:47:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/18/2010 12:37:24 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Lol, the debate's a no-go.

Ha typical.

What was the reason... or rather the official reason?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 1:12:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/18/2010 12:37:24 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Lol, the debate's a no-go.

Well it seems the whole idea was wasted. Unless the reason is <predictably> something that warrants counting vi's team as a win.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 1:31:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/18/2010 12:47:10 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

What was the reason... or rather the official reason?

Well, as you can see, the original e-mail from the pastor said he wanted a "scholarly representative" from each of our groups to debate, and we were going to suggest a panel to be more inclusive. However, it turns out that the pastor realizes the complete and utter incompetence of most Christians to justify their beliefs. He literally admitted that none in his group would be capable of debating us (it leaves one to wonder why they challenged us in the first place!). When Vi brought up examples of different philosophical arguments for god, the president of their club was like... What's that?

Instead, the pastor has arranged for a professional debater with a PhD in theology to debate in their place! Vi explained that AAFT was a self-funded organization that did not have the time or the money to recruit a scholarly atheist to represent us by October. His suggestion: That his professional debater challenge Vi and Chris (the President of AAFT)!

My response: I wrote Vi an e-mail to send him, explaining that it was ludicrous for him to have "his group" challenge "our group" to a debate, but not want anyone from either group to debate - or rather just prevent anyone from his group from debating at all. It's completely unfair for him to suggest that his group wasn't competent enough to debate a bunch of under-grad atheists, but then have the audacity to say that we should be competent enough to debate a professional lol. What a cheater, cry baby, cop out!

Personally, this "pro" doesn't intimidate me but it would just look completely unbalanced from the beginning if they were to accept that challenge. I suggested rallying ALL the Christian groups on campus (there's a bunch) to join forces and see if among them they can somehow rally up 4 capable students to defend their beliefs against other students.

A more professional debate can be arranged for later in the year, but for now, I don't think any of us would be comfortable sending in 1 or 2 people to debate a theologian. Not only is that unfair (and not what he originally suggested) but there's no point for even involving our 2 groups then if he simply wanted an atheist vs. theist debate.

Another kicker: They wanted to call the debate "There are probably no gods" (which is AAFTs logo) and have us make the opening arguments (and thus accept, I'm assuming, BOP). Meanwhile THEY challenged US so doing this would indicate the opposite.

Finally: you should see the pathetic topics they suggested! I am holding a list of them in my hand, I will copy and paste what they presented lol...

1. Christianity is arrogant
2. Christianity is intellectual suicide
3. Science has disproven God's existence
4. Would the world be a safer place without religion?
5. Is religion dangerous?
6. How did humans emerge from the mud?

LMAO! All of these topics are not only complete straw mans of everything AAFT argues and stands for (nor have we ever suggested any of these absurd things) but obviously these topics are all completely and utterly biased in their favor.

The whole thing is just a joke, and the Christian challengers have proven to be completely pathetic and anti-intellectual.

Surprise surprise.
President of DDO
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 5:09:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/18/2010 1:31:57 PM, theLwerd wrote:
1. Christianity is arrogant
2. Christianity is intellectual suicide
3. Science has disproven God's existence
4. Would the world be a safer place without religion?
5. Is religion dangerous?
6. How did humans emerge from the mud?

Zzzzzzzzzzz. Sounds like the debate would simply be a lecture dealing with misinformed arguments (several topics alone shout 'clueless' :/) or arguments that aren't widely inclusive of holding as an atheist.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 5:42:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/18/2010 1:31:57 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 9/18/2010 12:47:10 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

What was the reason... or rather the official reason?

Well, as you can see, the original e-mail from the pastor said he wanted a "scholarly representative" from each of our groups to debate, and we were going to suggest a panel to be more inclusive. However, it turns out that the pastor realizes the complete and utter incompetence of most Christians to justify their beliefs. He literally admitted that none in his group would be capable of debating us (it leaves one to wonder why they challenged us in the first place!). When Vi brought up examples of different philosophical arguments for god, the president of their club was like... What's that?

Instead, the pastor has arranged for a professional debater with a PhD in theology to debate in their place! Vi explained that AAFT was a self-funded organization that did not have the time or the money to recruit a scholarly atheist to represent us by October. His suggestion: That his professional debater challenge Vi and Chris (the President of AAFT)!

My response: I wrote Vi an e-mail to send him, explaining that it was ludicrous for him to have "his group" challenge "our group" to a debate, but not want anyone from either group to debate - or rather just prevent anyone from his group from debating at all. It's completely unfair for him to suggest that his group wasn't competent enough to debate a bunch of under-grad atheists, but then have the audacity to say that we should be competent enough to debate a professional lol. What a cheater, cry baby, cop out!

Personally, this "pro" doesn't intimidate me but it would just look completely unbalanced from the beginning if they were to accept that challenge. I suggested rallying ALL the Christian groups on campus (there's a bunch) to join forces and see if among them they can somehow rally up 4 capable students to defend their beliefs against other students.

A more professional debate can be arranged for later in the year, but for now, I don't think any of us would be comfortable sending in 1 or 2 people to debate a theologian. Not only is that unfair (and not what he originally suggested) but there's no point for even involving our 2 groups then if he simply wanted an atheist vs. theist debate.

Another kicker: They wanted to call the debate "There are probably no gods" (which is AAFTs logo) and have us make the opening arguments (and thus accept, I'm assuming, BOP). Meanwhile THEY challenged US so doing this would indicate the opposite.

Finally: you should see the pathetic topics they suggested! I am holding a list of them in my hand, I will copy and paste what they presented lol...

1. Christianity is arrogant
2. Christianity is intellectual suicide
3. Science has disproven God's existence
4. Would the world be a safer place without religion?
5. Is religion dangerous?
6. How did humans emerge from the mud?

LMAO! All of these topics are not only complete straw mans of everything AAFT argues and stands for (nor have we ever suggested any of these absurd things) but obviously these topics are all completely and utterly biased in their favor.

The whole thing is just a joke, and the Christian challengers have proven to be completely pathetic and anti-intellectual.

Surprise surprise.

Why is that entire episode so utterly predicatable?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 5:52:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Priority Topics:
-Problem of Evil (Why does God allow hurricanes?)
-Omniscence Paradox (Was sin part of God's plan?)
-God's Existence (Can God exist in the first place?)
Secondary Topics:
-Mosaic Law
-Objective Morality
-Evolution

Youtube the debates pl0x.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 5:53:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/18/2010 5:52:05 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Priority Topics:
-Problem of Evil (Why does God allow hurricanes?)
-Omniscence Paradox (Was sin part of God's plan?)
-God's Existence (Can God exist in the first place?)
Secondary Topics:
-Mosaic Law
-Objective Morality
-Evolution

Youtube the debates pl0x.

Never mind, read the rest of the thread.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/18/2010 6:02:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/18/2010 5:58:03 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
On days where I'm walking to class, I sometimes see one of those street preachers standing up on an elevated ledge, Bible in hand, shouting about the glory of God. One of these days, I should hold an impromptu debate with him.

YOU AIN'T GOT NO PANCAKE MIX!!!
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.