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Who/what created god?

JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/3/2015 11:32:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

I have to object here.

This is the inverse pitfall so many theists fall into. Just because in our daily lives everything that exists seems to have been created and therefore has to have had a creator, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the case for all entities across the omniverse, including the omniverse itself.

You do not know that and so that's an abusive extrapolation.
bulproof
Posts: 25,298
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10/3/2015 11:42:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:32:02 AM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

I have to object here.

This is the inverse pitfall so many theists fall into. Just because in our daily lives everything that exists seems to have been created and therefore has to have had a creator, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the case for all entities across the omniverse, including the omniverse itself.

You do not know that and so that's an abusive extrapolation.

We know for a fact that life only comes from rocks therefore god's creator is a rock, smaller than nothing but larger than Russell's teapot.
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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10/3/2015 12:03:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

If you believed in God then you must know that the true God was not created. Humans indeed created many false gods.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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10/3/2015 12:41:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 12:03:34 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

If you believed in God then you must know that the true God was not created. Humans indeed created many false gods.

So how did it come into existence then?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,762
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10/3/2015 2:08:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Response: If you apply the concept of "if something exist, then it must have been created", the concept itself is illogical and denies existence. The reason is because such a concept leads to an infinite regression or infinite past and if the past is infinite, that means we have no origin. For example, I ask you:

"Who created you". Then you name who that is. Then I ask "who created the one who created you"? Well, who created the one who created the one who created you"? "Well, who created the one who, etc...".

As you can see, this line of questioning would lead to an infinite regression of the past, which means we would never reach an origin. Thus if there is no origin of creation, then there can be no such thing as a creation or existence since there is no origin.

Simply put, there has to be an original existence that is UNCREATED, and this uncreated is the originator of all that has been created and all the exist. That being is called God.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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10/3/2015 2:39:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 2:08:46 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Response: If you apply the concept of "if something exist, then it must have been created", the concept itself is illogical and denies existence. The reason is because such a concept leads to an infinite regression or infinite past and if the past is infinite, that means we have no origin. For example, I ask you:

"Who created you". Then you name who that is. Then I ask "who created the one who created you"? Well, who created the one who created the one who created you"? "Well, who created the one who, etc...".

As you can see, this line of questioning would lead to an infinite regression of the past, which means we would never reach an origin. Thus if there is no origin of creation, then there can be no such thing as a creation or existence since there is no origin.

Simply put, there has to be an original existence that is UNCREATED, and this uncreated is the originator of all that has been created and all the exist. That being is called God.

Who created the children, Fati, who you claim "like sex">?
bulproof
Posts: 25,298
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10/3/2015 3:13:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 2:08:46 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Response: If you apply the concept of "if something exist, then it must have been created", the concept itself is illogical and denies existence. The reason is because such a concept leads to an infinite regression or infinite past and if the past is infinite, that means we have no origin. For example, I ask you:
Fati you have elucidated this conundrum perfectly.
The theist claim is precisely this "if something exist, then it must have been created",
You and they claim that your god EXISTS.
Ergo your god must have been created or else it doesn't EXIST.
Would you now like to change your contention that "if something exist, then it must have been created", or would you rather change your contention that your god EXISTS?
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/3/2015 3:25:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

The idea of time was created. No one has a beginning or an end. The information that makes you, you, has never not existed. The same for God.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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10/3/2015 3:27:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 2:08:46 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Response: If you apply the concept of "if something exist, then it must have been created", the concept itself is illogical and denies existence. The reason is because such a concept leads to an infinite regression or infinite past and if the past is infinite, that means we have no origin. For example, I ask you:

"Who created you". Then you name who that is. Then I ask "who created the one who created you"? Well, who created the one who created the one who created you"? "Well, who created the one who, etc...".

As you can see, this line of questioning would lead to an infinite regression of the past, which means we would never reach an origin. Thus if there is no origin of creation, then there can be no such thing as a creation or existence since there is no origin.

Simply put, there has to be an original existence that is UNCREATED, and this uncreated is the originator of all that has been created and all the exist. That being is called God.

Special Pleading fallacy. There also has to be an original existence of God.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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10/3/2015 3:28:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 12:41:29 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 10/3/2015 12:03:34 PM, uncung wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

If you believed in God then you must know that the true God was not created. Humans indeed created many false gods.

So how did it come into existence then?
we don't know.
bulproof
Posts: 25,298
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10/3/2015 3:52:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 3:25:05 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

The idea of time was created. No one has a beginning or an end. The information that makes you, you, has never not existed. The same for God.
And you will now present evidence in support of this claim?
No I didn't think so.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/3/2015 9:33:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 3:52:24 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/3/2015 3:25:05 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

The idea of time was created. No one has a beginning or an end. The information that makes you, you, has never not existed. The same for God.
And you will now present evidence in support of this claim?
No I didn't think so.

There is no "evidence" needed. It is just common logic. The information that makes you you just is, correct? There are a combination of things that make you you, but they have always been. Potential has always existed even to the Atheist mind. Once potential met "something", it put that information into physical manifestation, thus you exist in physical form. But that information cannot be destroyed without reality completely being destroyed.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/3/2015 9:43:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 3:27:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/3/2015 2:08:46 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Response: If you apply the concept of "if something exist, then it must have been created", the concept itself is illogical and denies existence. The reason is because such a concept leads to an infinite regression or infinite past and if the past is infinite, that means we have no origin. For example, I ask you:

"Who created you". Then you name who that is. Then I ask "who created the one who created you"? Well, who created the one who created the one who created you"? "Well, who created the one who, etc...".

As you can see, this line of questioning would lead to an infinite regression of the past, which means we would never reach an origin. Thus if there is no origin of creation, then there can be no such thing as a creation or existence since there is no origin.

Simply put, there has to be an original existence that is UNCREATED, and this uncreated is the originator of all that has been created and all the exist. That being is called God.

Special Pleading fallacy. There also has to be an original existence of God.

Why? He's not from our reality or its concepts.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/3/2015 9:48:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 9:43:07 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/3/2015 3:27:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/3/2015 2:08:46 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Response: If you apply the concept of "if something exist, then it must have been created", the concept itself is illogical and denies existence. The reason is because such a concept leads to an infinite regression or infinite past and if the past is infinite, that means we have no origin. For example, I ask you:

"Who created you". Then you name who that is. Then I ask "who created the one who created you"? Well, who created the one who created the one who created you"? "Well, who created the one who, etc...".

As you can see, this line of questioning would lead to an infinite regression of the past, which means we would never reach an origin. Thus if there is no origin of creation, then there can be no such thing as a creation or existence since there is no origin.

Simply put, there has to be an original existence that is UNCREATED, and this uncreated is the originator of all that has been created and all the exist. That being is called God.

Special Pleading fallacy. There also has to be an original existence of God.

Why? He's not from our reality or its concepts.

Certain dimensional concepts say time begins at a point and goes in both directions and actually can be moved back to another "past" point and branched in a different direction. Allpossibilities. Ability to go in all directions all the time. There is no time as we know it. The 3rd dimension is very limited. Other dimensions allow for more and more with every step up in dimensions. At some point you could use inner self to be when and where as you please and manifest with your mind, etc. The creative mind could take this concept in many directions. Research dimensions. It is interesting research.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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10/3/2015 10:31:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Don't just conclude; you know that is being intellectually lazy. It is better to look at it with an open mind. One: if humans did create it, isn't that still a wonder? I mean... what are we? Why does our mind ponder such things such as immortality? Nothing else does that as far as we know.

Was it always there? I personally think that doesn't work. It would make this one "god" a Solipsistic entity. If it is just one than it is all. Just from speculating the human race i see differences. So...

It makes most sense to me that "god" evolved. Yet, i don't think it fits the literal meaning of "god." I think consciousness evolved. So, there was a first that started a chain of different immortals as it created and evolved. If this first consciousness was not bound by a brain; it would be immortal (i'm just jumpin to this conclusion bc i am being lazy to explain why). If this is an immortal consciousness that evolved it really wouldn't need a creator... it is just a thought that became more and more self aware. To the point of creating (collectively with other immortals involved at this point) stuff. If this thought became powerful enough; it probably became able to manipulate matter.... yet, matter and what we see was probably a part of its evolution. But, don't misread what i am saying... i don't think there is one almighty god... this just happened to be the first of many immortals including you and me.
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
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10/3/2015 11:25:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Since according to you there is no God, can you disprove slavery?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,762
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10/4/2015 1:29:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 3:27:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Special Pleading fallacy. There also has to be an original existence of God.

Response: Weak rebuttal. There has to be an original uncreated being, and that is God.
PureX
Posts: 1,530
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10/4/2015 3:28:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

"God" iran existential 'meta-concept', which has been generated in the minds of human beings for a very long time. The reality to which that conception refers surpasses our understanding, and so we cannot determine it's origin, if such a question even applies.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/4/2015 4:01:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 10:31:14 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Don't just conclude; you know that is being intellectually lazy. It is better to look at it with an open mind. One: if humans did create it, isn't that still a wonder? I mean... what are we? Why does our mind ponder such things such as immortality? Nothing else does that as far as we know.

Was it always there? I personally think that doesn't work. It would make this one "god" a Solipsistic entity. If it is just one than it is all. Just from speculating the human race i see differences. So...

It makes most sense to me that "god" evolved. Yet, i don't think it fits the literal meaning of "god." I think consciousness evolved. So, there was a first that started a chain of different immortals as it created and evolved. If this first consciousness was not bound by a brain; it would be immortal (i'm just jumpin to this conclusion bc i am being lazy to explain why). If this is an immortal consciousness that evolved it really wouldn't need a creator... it is just a thought that became more and more self aware. To the point of creating (collectively with other immortals involved at this point) stuff. If this thought became powerful enough; it probably became able to manipulate matter.... yet, matter and what we see was probably a part of its evolution. But, don't misread what i am saying... i don't think there is one almighty god... this just happened to be the first of many immortals including you and me.

The "logic" of our reality is not logic at all in another reality. It's like the Sims trying to explain who "WE" are to each other. They wouldn't know how or where we are in reality. They would be confused if we explained it to them.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/4/2015 4:03:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 1:51:13 AM, Composer wrote:
ALL Supernatural God(s) are the 100% concept devised by some human beings! and only the weak-minded & gullible fell for it!

Are you sure?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/4/2015 4:39:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 1:51:13 AM, Composer wrote:
ALL Supernatural God(s) are the 100% concept devised by some human beings! and only the weak-minded & gullible fell for it!

At 10/4/2015 4:03:26 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Are you sure?
By all means show us what you think you have to legitimately demonstrate otherwise?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/4/2015 4:46:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:42:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:32:02 AM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

I have to object here.

This is the inverse pitfall so many theists fall into. Just because in our daily lives everything that exists seems to have been created and therefore has to have had a creator, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the case for all entities across the omniverse, including the omniverse itself.

You do not know that and so that's an abusive extrapolation.

We know for a fact that life only comes from rocks therefore god's creator is a rock, smaller than nothing but larger than Russell's teapot.

Rock clay ect... Many myths retell how God created man from such substances.

So while we can say life comes from rocks it is clear life only comes about through the creative action of God.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/4/2015 4:47:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

What about the quality of existing implies that it is also created?
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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10/4/2015 5:20:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 4:01:43 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/3/2015 10:31:14 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

Don't just conclude; you know that is being intellectually lazy. It is better to look at it with an open mind. One: if humans did create it, isn't that still a wonder? I mean... what are we? Why does our mind ponder such things such as immortality? Nothing else does that as far as we know.

Was it always there? I personally think that doesn't work. It would make this one "god" a Solipsistic entity. If it is just one than it is all. Just from speculating the human race i see differences. So...

It makes most sense to me that "god" evolved. Yet, i don't think it fits the literal meaning of "god." I think consciousness evolved. So, there was a first that started a chain of different immortals as it created and evolved. If this first consciousness was not bound by a brain; it would be immortal (i'm just jumpin to this conclusion bc i am being lazy to explain why). If this is an immortal consciousness that evolved it really wouldn't need a creator... it is just a thought that became more and more self aware. To the point of creating (collectively with other immortals involved at this point) stuff. If this thought became powerful enough; it probably became able to manipulate matter.... yet, matter and what we see was probably a part of its evolution. But, don't misread what i am saying... i don't think there is one almighty god... this just happened to be the first of many immortals including you and me.

The "logic" of our reality is not logic at all in another reality. It's like the Sims trying to explain who "WE" are to each other. They wouldn't know how or where we are in reality. They would be confused if we explained it to them.

Yes. But we are not talking about the Sims... we are talking about you and i. What are we? Does the logic of who i am differ that much? I would answer yes, in another reality i am far beyond what i am here bc i am perceiving two realities, so i must be of a different intellect. Yet, if i am always living in only one reality and not knowing of others i am only as logical as that reality let's me be. If there is any logic i am trying to portray here is that we can be something more; however, this outcome has nothing to do with religion or anything any body else says unless "i" give the idea weight. The logic i am speaking of is that in death i hear none of your words, none of the worlds arguments, nothing... except me. What i take from this world is myself and nothing more. Same goes for you and everyone else. You are what you create, and ultimately it is what you think of your final character that leaves this world. I can just assure you that there is a role somewhere you can fulfill... but, do i have to join you? maybe or maybe not. I don't know what you envision as a paradise. It may be the same as mine or different... If the same i will join you in that reality, if different i won't. The logic here is that the implications of immortality are endless ... i am just figuring out how i would deal with it if it happens to be true. What is ultimately clear to me is that i can imagine what ever i want; and so can you. The world is just deciding to latch onto past ideas, past words, past authors imaginations... I honestly don't want everyone to think like me... this would prove my theory wrong. If i ever choose to share what i believe with everyone then it would be only for those that can see it ... and trust me, these people will be powerful. Live life like you are the king of your world, be selfish, do what you want ... bc that is what you are.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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10/4/2015 5:23:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 4:01:43 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/3/2015 10:31:14 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

I just read the forum topic and what you meant with the logic thing after answering you... i think your answer was misdirected to me. That's what i get for drinking wine...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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10/4/2015 8:30:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 1:29:20 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 10/3/2015 3:27:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:

Special Pleading fallacy. There also has to be an original existence of God.

Response: Weak rebuttal. There has to be an original uncreated being, and that is God.

Are you quite certain that the original uncreated thing wasn't " children who like sex"?
bulproof
Posts: 25,298
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10/4/2015 1:51:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 4:46:06 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:42:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:32:02 AM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/3/2015 11:02:32 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Some state that god was always there, but that doesn't make any sense. If it exits something had to create it, imo. The most logical explanation of course is that humans created it.

I have to object here.

This is the inverse pitfall so many theists fall into. Just because in our daily lives everything that exists seems to have been created and therefore has to have had a creator, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the case for all entities across the omniverse, including the omniverse itself.

You do not know that and so that's an abusive extrapolation.

We know for a fact that life only comes from rocks therefore god's creator is a rock, smaller than nothing but larger than Russell's teapot.

Rock clay ect... Many myths retell how God created man from such substances.

So while we can say life comes from rocks it is clear life only comes about through the creative action of God.

You call the imagination of a stone/bronze age humanoid clear evidence that LIFE comes about through the creative action of the god created by the stone/bronze age humanoid?
That is as clear as mud in a dirty brown beer bottle.