Total Posts:55|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Refutations of Arguments for God

tejretics
Posts: 6,091
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
uncung
Posts: 3,455
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 9:47:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM, tejretics wrote:
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

God created the universe.
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 9:49:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 9:47:51 AM, uncung wrote:
God created the universe.

(1) I don't see in any way how that's an "argument." Please read the OP.

(2) Ipse dixit fallacy.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
uncung
Posts: 3,455
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 10:12:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 9:49:23 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:47:51 AM, uncung wrote:
God created the universe.

(1) I don't see in any way how that's an "argument." Please read the OP.

(2) Ipse dixit fallacy.

If not by God, then who created the universe?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 10:52:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 9:49:23 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:47:51 AM, uncung wrote:
God created the universe.

(1) I don't see in any way how that's an "argument." Please read the OP.

(2) Ipse dixit fallacy.

At 10/4/2015 10:12:07 AM, uncung wrote:
If not by God, then who created the universe?
Susan the Alien & her 12 Sisters!

I could be wrong but so far there has been no legitimate evidence refuting that concept! :)
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 10:55:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 10:12:07 AM, uncung wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:49:23 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:47:51 AM, uncung wrote:
God created the universe.

(1) I don't see in any way how that's an "argument." Please read the OP.

(2) Ipse dixit fallacy.

If not by God, then who created the universe?

(1) Why did the universe have to be caused? Why is it a "who" and not a "what?"

(2) Why not the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
uncung
Posts: 3,455
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 11:06:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If not by God, then who created the universe?

(1) Why did the universe have to be caused? Why is it a "who" and not a "what?"

(2) Why not the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

of course the organized universe has a creator. no matter the question is who or what. anyone who created the universe is worth God. Who ever it is.
What is flying spaghetti monster?
uncung
Posts: 3,455
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 11:08:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If not by God, then who created the universe?
Susan the Alien & her 12 Sisters!

I could be wrong but so far there has been no legitimate evidence refuting that concept! :)

Who said that the Alien and friends created the universe? you can't answer it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 1:15:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 11:08:10 AM, uncung wrote:
If not by God, then who created the universe?
Susan the Alien & her 12 Sisters!

I could be wrong but so far there has been no legitimate evidence refuting that concept! :)

Who said that the Alien and friends created the universe? you can't answer it.

Xebuflic created all the universes and all of the gods worshiped by man.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
uncung
Posts: 3,455
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 2:59:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Who said that the Alien and friends created the universe? you can't answer it.

Xebuflic created all the universes and all of the gods worshiped by man.

I am smiling, triumph smile.
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 4:34:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
[T]he organized universe has a creator.

Ipse dixit fallacy. Citations needed. Also, please define "organized."

What is the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

That doesn't matter. What I'm trying to imply that an external cause of the universe does not need to be "conscious," which is crucial to the OP's definition of God.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Yonko
Posts: 227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/4/2015 6:09:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM, tejretics wrote:
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

1. Logical absolutes exist
2. Logical absolutes transcend physical matter and entities
3. Transcendental constructs cannot exist without a similarly transcendent author (i.e. God)
4. God exists
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 12:52:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 11:08:10 AM, uncung wrote:
If not by God, then who created the universe?
Susan the Alien & her 12 Sisters!

I could be wrong but so far there has been no legitimate evidence refuting that concept! :)

At 10/4/2015 11:08:10 AM, uncung wrote:
Who said that the Alien and friends created the universe? you can't answer it.
I didn't say ' Alien & friends '!

Get back & try your luck again when you can legitimately demonstrate your reading & comprehension has vastly improved! :)

Next!
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 2:25:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/4/2015 6:09:49 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM, tejretics wrote:
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

1. Logical absolutes exist
2. Logical absolutes transcend physical matter and entities
3. Transcendental constructs cannot exist without a similarly transcendent author (i.e. God)
4. God exists

A "logical absolute" is merely based on physical constraints. You'd have to demonstrate that logic exists as an abstract object, rather than merely as part of the physical constraint present in the universe. Premise 2 unjustified. Further, Premise 3 is a bare assertion.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Yonko
Posts: 227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:02:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 2:25:58 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 10/4/2015 6:09:49 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM, tejretics wrote:
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

1. Logical absolutes exist
2. Logical absolutes transcend physical matter and entities
3. Transcendental constructs cannot exist without a similarly transcendent author (i.e. God)
4. God exists

A "logical absolute" is merely based on physical constraints. You'd have to demonstrate that logic exists as an abstract object, rather than merely as part of the physical constraint present in the universe.

You don't think A and !A are mutually exclusive even without the existence of matter?

Premise 2 unjustified. Further, Premise 3 is a bare assertion.

How else would they exist...?
All conceptual constructs must originate from a mind of some sort.
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:09:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 4:02:33 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/5/2015 2:25:58 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 10/4/2015 6:09:49 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM, tejretics wrote:
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

1. Logical absolutes exist
2. Logical absolutes transcend physical matter and entities
3. Transcendental constructs cannot exist without a similarly transcendent author (i.e. God)
4. God exists

A "logical absolute" is merely based on physical constraints. You'd have to demonstrate that logic exists as an abstract object, rather than merely as part of the physical constraint present in the universe.

You don't think A and !A are mutually exclusive even without the existence of matter?

Premise 2 unjustified. Further, Premise 3 is a bare assertion.

How else would they exist...?
All conceptual constructs must originate from a mind of some sort.

All of them do.
They originate from the minds of mice.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:11:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 4:02:33 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/5/2015 2:25:58 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 10/4/2015 6:09:49 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM, tejretics wrote:
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

1. Logical absolutes exist
2. Logical absolutes transcend physical matter and entities
3. Transcendental constructs cannot exist without a similarly transcendent author (i.e. God)
4. God exists

A "logical absolute" is merely based on physical constraints. You'd have to demonstrate that logic exists as an abstract object, rather than merely as part of the physical constraint present in the universe.

You don't think A and !A are mutually exclusive even without the existence of matter?

Without time, space, matter, antimatter, and energy, A and ~A are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Sans the universe, they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.


Premise 2 unjustified. Further, Premise 3 is a bare assertion.

How else would they exist...?

Within the universe. Perhaps aligning with Piaget's model of epistemology.

All conceptual constructs must originate from a mind of some sort.

Bare assertion.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:17:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 4:02:33 PM, Yonko wrote:
How else would they exist...?
All conceptual constructs must originate from a mind of some sort.
Have you heard of platonism before?
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Yonko
Posts: 227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:25:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 4:17:05 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:02:33 PM, Yonko wrote:
How else would they exist...?
All conceptual constructs must originate from a mind of some sort.
Have you heard of platonism before?

Yes, but I don't see how that would work.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:26:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 4:25:18 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:17:05 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:02:33 PM, Yonko wrote:
How else would they exist...?
All conceptual constructs must originate from a mind of some sort.
Have you heard of platonism before?

Yes, but I don't see how that would work.
But that is not an argument.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Yonko
Posts: 227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:31:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 4:26:09 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:25:18 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:17:05 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:02:33 PM, Yonko wrote:
How else would they exist...?
All conceptual constructs must originate from a mind of some sort.
Have you heard of platonism before?

Yes, but I don't see how that would work.
But that is not an argument.

Upon further consideration, it seems that I'm not familiar enough with this branch of philosophy to intelligently continue this discussion. Perhaps I will be qualified to do so after reading up on it a bit.
Yonko
Posts: 227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:33:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 4:11:35 PM, tejretics wrote:

See Post 21. You should still reply to my post in your KCA thread, though.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 4:38:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 4:31:12 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:26:09 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:25:18 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:17:05 PM, Fkkize wrote:
At 10/5/2015 4:02:33 PM, Yonko wrote:
How else would they exist...?
All conceptual constructs must originate from a mind of some sort.
Have you heard of platonism before?

Yes, but I don't see how that would work.
But that is not an argument.

Upon further consideration, it seems that I'm not familiar enough with this branch of philosophy to intelligently continue this discussion. Perhaps I will be qualified to do so after reading up on it a bit.
Honesty is a virtue lol.
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 6:44:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 2:25:58 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 10/4/2015 6:09:49 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM, tejretics wrote:
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

1. Logical absolutes exist
2. Logical absolutes transcend physical matter and entities
3. Transcendental constructs cannot exist without a similarly transcendent author (i.e. God)
4. God exists

A "logical absolute" is merely based on physical constraints. You'd have to demonstrate that logic exists as an abstract object, rather than merely as part of the physical constraint present in the universe.

Logical absolutes and abstract objects aren't learned by empirical means. It's a-priori knowledge.

Premise 2 unjustified. Further, Premise 3 is a bare assertion.

P3: Abstract concepts are only functions of the mind. Objective functions of the mind require a mind as a necessary precondition.
Fkkize
Posts: 2,149
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/5/2015 7:19:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 6:44:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
P3: Abstract concepts are only functions of the mind.
I'll ask you the same thing I asked Yonko:
have you heard of platonism before?
: At 7/2/2016 3:05:07 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
:
: space contradicts logic
Yonko
Posts: 227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/6/2015 2:30:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
After reading into it, this physical vs. abstract vs. mental stuff sounds suspiciously like a dumb semantics game. Not interested.
Yonko
Posts: 227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/6/2015 2:36:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 2:30:54 AM, Yonko wrote:
After reading into it, this physical vs. abstract vs. mental stuff sounds suspiciously like a dumb semantics game. Not interested.

Then again, that applies to much of philosophy...
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/6/2015 10:49:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 6:44:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 10/5/2015 2:25:58 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 10/4/2015 6:09:49 PM, Yonko wrote:
At 10/4/2015 9:42:46 AM, tejretics wrote:
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

1. Logical absolutes exist
2. Logical absolutes transcend physical matter and entities
3. Transcendental constructs cannot exist without a similarly transcendent author (i.e. God)
4. God exists

A "logical absolute" is merely based on physical constraints. You'd have to demonstrate that logic exists as an abstract object, rather than merely as part of the physical constraint present in the universe.

Logical absolutes and abstract objects aren't learned by empirical means. It's a-priori knowledge.

Yes, but it's "knowledge." The argument assumes Piaget's model of epistemology is false. Warrant that.


Premise 2 unjustified. Further, Premise 3 is a bare assertion.

P3: Abstract concepts are only functions of the mind. Objective functions of the mind require a mind as a necessary precondition.

This justification has to assume non-naturalistic non-platonism (non-naturalistic nominalism), which has to be warranted.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
Posts: 6,091
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/6/2015 10:50:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 2:30:54 AM, Yonko wrote:
After reading into it, this physical vs. abstract vs. mental stuff sounds suspiciously like a dumb semantics game. Not interested.

It's not a "dumb semantic game." If A is abstract, then A exists while independent from mind, space-time, and energy. If A is physical, A is contingent on space-time and energy. If A is mental, A is contingent on the mind (assuming the mind is not physical).
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/6/2015 11:12:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Give me any good argument for God's existence, and I'll refute it. I'm fine with any argument, as long as it demonstrates this definition of God:

The conscious, transcendent creator of the universe

1. Logical absolutes exist
2. Logical absolutes transcend physical matter and entities
3. Transcendental constructs cannot exist without a similarly transcendent author (i.e. God)
4. God exists

A "logical absolute" is merely based on physical constraints. You'd have to demonstrate that logic exists as an abstract object, rather than merely as part of the physical constraint present in the universe.

Logical absolutes and abstract objects aren't learned by empirical means. It's a-priori knowledge.

Premise 2 unjustified. Further, Premise 3 is a bare assertion.

P3: Abstract concepts are only functions of the mind. Objective functions of the mind require a mind as a necessary precondition.

Why does that mind have to be God's? Why is it mandatory to say that the knowledge of logic etc specifically had to come from Him as opposed humans coming up with it?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...