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Are the JWs a New Religion?

MadCornishBiker
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10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Actually they are, in reality, the oldest religion on earth, though that religion has changed in form as the plan to get us back on track has progressed.

Why do I say that?

Because they, and I, worship the One True God, Jehovah, and imitate his only begotten son, now the Christ, in that worship.

I am going to add a few extracts from what the JWs themselves say about this.

Who Was the Founder of Jehovah"s Witnesses?

The modern-day organization of Jehovah"s Witnesses began at the end of the 19th century. At that time, a small group of Bible students who lived near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the United States, began a systematic analysis of the Bible. They compared the doctrines taught by the churches with what the Bible really teaches. They began publishing what they learned in books, newspapers, and the journal that is now called The Watchtower"Announcing Jehovah"s Kingdom.

Among that group of sincere Bible students was a man named Charles Taze Russell. While Russell took the lead in the Bible education work at that time and was the first editor of The Watchtower, he was not the founder of a new religion. The goal of Russell and the other Bible Students, as the group was then known, was to promote the teachings of Jesus Christ and to follow the practices of the first-century Christian congregation. Since Jesus is the Founder of Christianity, we view him as the founder of our organization."Colossians 1:18-20.

Do Jehovah"s Witnesses Have Their Own Bible?

Jehovah"s Witnesses have used many different translations in their study of the Bible. In languages where it is available, though, we especially appreciate the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures for its use of God"s name, for its accuracy, and for its clarity.

Use of God"s name. Some Bible publishers have failed to give credit where credit is due. For example, one Bible translation lists the names of over 70 people who in some way contributed to its production. Yet, this same Bible omits the name of the Author"Jehovah God"altogether!

In contrast, the New World Translation restores the divine name in the thousands of places where it existed in the original text, while the committee that produced the translation remains anonymous.

Accuracy. Not all translations accurately convey the Bible"s original message. One translation, for instance, renders Matthew 7:13 in this way: "Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy." However, the original text used the term "destruction," not "hell." Perhaps the translators inserted the word "hell" because they believed that the wicked would be tormented forever in hellfire. But that idea is not supported by the Bible. Hence, the New World Translation reads accurately: "Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction."

Clarity. A good translation should be not only accurate but also clear, easy to understand. Consider an example. At Romans 12:11, the Christian apostle Paul used an expression that literally means "to the spirit boiling." Since that expression makes little sense in modern English, the New World Translation renders the verse in a way that is easier to understand. It says that Christians should be "aglow with the spirit."

In addition to its use of God"s name, accuracy, and clarity, the New World Translation has another distinction: It is distributed without charge. As a result, millions are able to read the Bible in their mother tongue"even those who otherwise could not afford to own a Bible.

I hope that helps clear up a few misconceptions, though if I am honest I doubt many will accept it as the truth that it really is.
truth_is_was_will_be
Posts: 55
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10/5/2015 5:22:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Actually they are, in reality, the oldest religion on earth, though that religion has changed in form as the plan to get us back on track has progressed.

Why do I say that?

Because they, and I, worship the One True God, Jehovah, and imitate his only begotten son, now the Christ, in that worship.

I am going to add a few extracts from what the JWs themselves say about this.

Who Was the Founder of Jehovah"s Witnesses?

The modern-day organization of Jehovah"s Witnesses began at the end of the 19th century. At that time, a small group of Bible students who lived near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the United States, began a systematic analysis of the Bible. They compared the doctrines taught by the churches with what the Bible really teaches. They began publishing what they learned in books, newspapers, and the journal that is now called The Watchtower"Announcing Jehovah"s Kingdom.

Among that group of sincere Bible students was a man named Charles Taze Russell. While Russell took the lead in the Bible education work at that time and was the first editor of The Watchtower, he was not the founder of a new religion. The goal of Russell and the other Bible Students, as the group was then known, was to promote the teachings of Jesus Christ and to follow the practices of the first-century Christian congregation. Since Jesus is the Founder of Christianity, we view him as the founder of our organization."Colossians 1:18-20.

Do Jehovah"s Witnesses Have Their Own Bible?

Jehovah"s Witnesses have used many different translations in their study of the Bible. In languages where it is available, though, we especially appreciate the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures for its use of God"s name, for its accuracy, and for its clarity.

Use of God"s name. Some Bible publishers have failed to give credit where credit is due. For example, one Bible translation lists the names of over 70 people who in some way contributed to its production. Yet, this same Bible omits the name of the Author"Jehovah God"altogether!

In contrast, the New World Translation restores the divine name in the thousands of places where it existed in the original text, while the committee that produced the translation remains anonymous.

Accuracy. Not all translations accurately convey the Bible"s original message. One translation, for instance, renders Matthew 7:13 in this way: "Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy." However, the original text used the term "destruction," not "hell." Perhaps the translators inserted the word "hell" because they believed that the wicked would be tormented forever in hellfire. But that idea is not supported by the Bible. Hence, the New World Translation reads accurately: "Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction."

Clarity. A good translation should be not only accurate but also clear, easy to understand. Consider an example. At Romans 12:11, the Christian apostle Paul used an expression that literally means "to the spirit boiling." Since that expression makes little sense in modern English, the New World Translation renders the verse in a way that is easier to understand. It says that Christians should be "aglow with the spirit."

In addition to its use of God"s name, accuracy, and clarity, the New World Translation has another distinction: It is distributed without charge. As a result, millions are able to read the Bible in their mother tongue"even those who otherwise could not afford to own a Bible.

I hope that helps clear up a few misconceptions, though if I am honest I doubt many will accept it as the truth that it really is. : :

The JW's are one of the newest branches of the "feet of clay" called the Protestant denominations of Christianity. No one is going to change the "feet of iron" called the Roman Catholic Church.
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/5/2015 5:54:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Actually they are, in reality, the oldest religion on earth, though that religion has changed in form as the plan to get us back on track has progressed.

Why do I say that?

Because they, and I, worship the One True God, Jehovah, and imitate his only begotten son, now the Christ, in that worship.

I am going to add a few extracts from what the JWs themselves say about this.

Who Was the Founder of Jehovah"s Witnesses?

The modern-day organization of Jehovah"s Witnesses began at the end of the 19th century. At that time, a small group of Bible students who lived near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the United States, began a systematic analysis of the Bible. They compared the doctrines taught by the churches with what the Bible really teaches. They began publishing what they learned in books, newspapers, and the journal that is now called The Watchtower"Announcing Jehovah"s Kingdom.

Among that group of sincere Bible students was a man named Charles Taze Russell. While Russell took the lead in the Bible education work at that time and was the first editor of The Watchtower, he was not the founder of a new religion. The goal of Russell and the other Bible Students, as the group was then known, was to promote the teachings of Jesus Christ and to follow the practices of the first-century Christian congregation. Since Jesus is the Founder of Christianity, we view him as the founder of our organization."Colossians 1:18-20.

Do Jehovah"s Witnesses Have Their Own Bible?

Jehovah"s Witnesses have used many different translations in their study of the Bible. In languages where it is available, though, we especially appreciate the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures for its use of God"s name, for its accuracy, and for its clarity.

Use of God"s name. Some Bible publishers have failed to give credit where credit is due. For example, one Bible translation lists the names of over 70 people who in some way contributed to its production. Yet, this same Bible omits the name of the Author"Jehovah God"altogether!

In contrast, the New World Translation restores the divine name in the thousands of places where it existed in the original text, while the committee that produced the translation remains anonymous.

Accuracy. Not all translations accurately convey the Bible"s original message. One translation, for instance, renders Matthew 7:13 in this way: "Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy." However, the original text used the term "destruction," not "hell." Perhaps the translators inserted the word "hell" because they believed that the wicked would be tormented forever in hellfire. But that idea is not supported by the Bible. Hence, the New World Translation reads accurately: "Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction."

Clarity. A good translation should be not only accurate but also clear, easy to understand. Consider an example. At Romans 12:11, the Christian apostle Paul used an expression that literally means "to the spirit boiling." Since that expression makes little sense in modern English, the New World Translation renders the verse in a way that is easier to understand. It says that Christians should be "aglow with the spirit."

In addition to its use of God"s name, accuracy, and clarity, the New World Translation has another distinction: It is distributed without charge. As a result, millions are able to read the Bible in their mother tongue"even those who otherwise could not afford to own a Bible.

I hope that helps clear up a few misconceptions, though if I am honest I doubt many will accept it as the truth that it really is.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are a malign cult headed by a gang of a dozen unlettered men who will twist, distort, take out of context, obfuscate, and resort to pretty much every single fallacy in the Fallacy book in a attempt to present themselves as God's mouthpiece.

No efforts should be spared in denouncing, exposing and fighting them. Here's a brand new video on the topic:

https://www.youtube.com...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/5/2015 6:19:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 5:54:51 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


The Jehovah's Witnesses are a malign cult headed by a gang of a dozen unlettered men who will twist, distort, take out of context, obfuscate, and resort to pretty much every single fallacy in the Fallacy book in a attempt to present themselves as God's mouthpiece.

No efforts should be spared in denouncing, exposing and fighting them. Here's a brand new video on the topic:


https://www.youtube.com...

You can denounce them all you like, just as those you imitate denounced Christ and the Apostles, it will not benefit you any more than it did them, and you will be held responsible for the innocent blood you have shed with your lies, when Christ.

The choice is yours.
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/5/2015 6:39:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 6:19:52 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/5/2015 5:54:51 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


The Jehovah's Witnesses are a malign cult headed by a gang of a dozen unlettered men who will twist, distort, take out of context, obfuscate, and resort to pretty much every single fallacy in the Fallacy book in a attempt to present themselves as God's mouthpiece.

No efforts should be spared in denouncing, exposing and fighting them. Here's a brand new video on the topic:


https://www.youtube.com...

You can denounce them all you like, just as those you imitate denounced Christ and the Apostles, it will not benefit you any more than it did them, and you will be held responsible for the innocent blood you have shed with your lies, when Christ.

The choice is yours.

Pay no attention to the fearmongering. It's the shadiest of the shady tactics in JW apologetics' arsenal. Read, think, decide for yourself.

Notice the difference. I'm not claiming to have been appointed by the creator of the Universe. I'm not telling others that they should only read, watch and listen to what I have to say and disregard everything else even before giving it the briefest of considerations.

Jehovah's witnesses are.

By all means, read their literature. But do read what critics have to say on the matter as well. Then make up your mind.

Think. If a friend was to walk up to you and say the following: look, just listen to me, only to me, pay no attention to bad mouthers, don't even listen to them, don't read their literature. It's all lies. Slandering lies. Don't even read, I forbid you , throw it in the waste bin straight away.

Wouldn't you be suspicious?
The watchtower should not fear scrutiny, if they have nothing to hide.
Just think.

Read, think and decide for yourself.
truth_is_was_will_be
Posts: 55
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10/5/2015 6:40:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 6:19:52 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/5/2015 5:54:51 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


The Jehovah's Witnesses are a malign cult headed by a gang of a dozen unlettered men who will twist, distort, take out of context, obfuscate, and resort to pretty much every single fallacy in the Fallacy book in a attempt to present themselves as God's mouthpiece.

No efforts should be spared in denouncing, exposing and fighting them. Here's a brand new video on the topic:


https://www.youtube.com...

You can denounce them all you like, just as those you imitate denounced Christ and the Apostles, it will not benefit you any more than it did them, and you will be held responsible for the innocent blood you have shed with your lies, when Christ.

The choice is yours. : :

God chose those who listen to his gospel and believe. It's impossible for man to choose what is the Truth or not.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/5/2015 7:50:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Actually they are, in reality, the oldest religion on earth, though that religion has changed in form as the plan to get us back on track has progressed.

Why do I say that?

Because they, and I, worship the One True God, Jehovah, and imitate his only begotten son, now the Christ, in that worship.

I am going to add a few extracts from what the JWs themselves say about this.

Who Was the Founder of Jehovah"s Witnesses?

Well, the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" was made up in the 1930's, but the founder of the BotchTower Society was one Charles Taze Russell.

Do Jehovah"s Witnesses Have Their Own Bible?

Short answer: YES, they produced their own Bible.

Some Bible publishers have failed to give credit where credit is due. For example, one Bible translation lists the names of over 70 people who in some way contributed to its production.

Well, the BotchTower didn't do THAT, did it? Noooooo, the names of the perverters who came up with the NWT were clouded in secrecy until some fairly influential ex-JW's revealed the names.

In contrast, the New World Translation restores the divine name in the thousands of places where it existed in the original text

You have a been asked to cite examples of this by referring to the Greek manuscripts. You didn't do it.


Clarity. A good translation should be not only accurate but also clear, easy to understand. Consider an example. At Romans 12:11, the Christian apostle Paul used an expression that literally means "to the spirit boiling." Since that expression makes little sense in modern English, the New World Translation renders the verse in a way that is easier to understand. It says that Christians should be "aglow with the spirit."

That's a ridiculous example, and "aglow" is an even more ridiculous "translation". Metaphorically, the word means "fervent" and is so translated in numerous standard works.

In addition to its use of God"s name, accuracy, and clarity, the New World Translation has another distinction: It is distributed without charge.

The BotchTower should pay people to take it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/5/2015 8:20:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 6:39:02 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 6:19:52 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/5/2015 5:54:51 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


The Jehovah's Witnesses are a malign cult headed by a gang of a dozen unlettered men who will twist, distort, take out of context, obfuscate, and resort to pretty much every single fallacy in the Fallacy book in a attempt to present themselves as God's mouthpiece.

No efforts should be spared in denouncing, exposing and fighting them. Here's a brand new video on the topic:


https://www.youtube.com...

You can denounce them all you like, just as those you imitate denounced Christ and the Apostles, it will not benefit you any more than it did them, and you will be held responsible for the innocent blood you have shed with your lies, when Christ.

The choice is yours.

Pay no attention to the fearmongering. It's the shadiest of the shady tactics in JW apologetics' arsenal. Read, think, decide for yourself.

Now there I agree, get out your bibles, rad what God has said, and choose whether or not you believe it.

Simple as.

The "scaremongering" as you call it, comes not from the JWs, but from Jehovah, just as it did when Noah preached the same, or to use more localised examples, when the Israelites ignored Jehovah's many condemnations only to have Israel disappear off the face of the earth for more than 2 millennia.


Notice the difference. I'm not claiming to have been appointed by the creator of the Universe. I'm not telling others that they should only read, watch and listen to what I have to say and disregard everything else even before giving it the briefest of considerations.

True, but unless they read these things they cannot judge the accuracy or otherwise of them can they.

You expect them to take your word for it.

I expect nothing, just hope that they will check up on what I say.


Jehovah's witnesses are.

Yes, they are.

They are indeed God's people.


By all means, read their literature. But do read what critics have to say on the matter as well. Then make up your mind.

Think. If a friend was to walk up to you and say the following: look, just listen to me, only to me, pay no attention to bad mouthers, don't even listen to them, don't read their literature. It's all lies. Slandering lies. Don't even read, I forbid you , throw it in the waste bin straight away.

Wouldn't you be suspicious?
The watchtower should not fear scrutiny, if they have nothing to hide.

They have no fear of scrutiny, they invite it, and have put their "wares" in the public domain for many years, and never more so than now when there is massive of evidence , Historical, Scientific and prophetic.

All examined for you to read, with references and citations for you to check.

All neatly laid out, online at http://www.jw.org....

No, they have no fear of honest examination because they know that Jehovah is looking for honest hearts to draw to his son's side.

John 4:23-24
ASV(i) 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

That scripture is being fulfilled now, as it was then, and Jehovah is actively seeking honest hearted ones, and only honest hearted ones. He is using the JWs to do that.

Just think.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You certainly haven't done so so far, you have spoken without knowledge, or with only one biased kind of knowledge.

As a disfellowshipped person, I have no axe to grind with any but myself.


Read, think and decide for yourself.

Most decidedly that is all I ask, all the JWs ask.

It is not easy to become a JW, with a very few exceptions, any who survive the course either fall away quickly or stay for life.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/5/2015 8:22:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 7:50:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Actually they are, in reality, the oldest religion on earth, though that religion has changed in form as the plan to get us back on track has progressed.

Why do I say that?

Because they, and I, worship the One True God, Jehovah, and imitate his only begotten son, now the Christ, in that worship.

I am going to add a few extracts from what the JWs themselves say about this.

Who Was the Founder of Jehovah"s Witnesses?

Well, the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" was made up in the 1930's, but the founder of the BotchTower Society was one Charles Taze Russell.

Do Jehovah"s Witnesses Have Their Own Bible?

Short answer: YES, they produced their own Bible.

Some Bible publishers have failed to give credit where credit is due. For example, one Bible translation lists the names of over 70 people who in some way contributed to its production.

Well, the BotchTower didn't do THAT, did it? Noooooo, the names of the perverters who came up with the NWT were clouded in secrecy until some fairly influential ex-JW's revealed the names.

In contrast, the New World Translation restores the divine name in the thousands of places where it existed in the original text

You have a been asked to cite examples of this by referring to the Greek manuscripts. You didn't do it.


Clarity. A good translation should be not only accurate but also clear, easy to understand. Consider an example. At Romans 12:11, the Christian apostle Paul used an expression that literally means "to the spirit boiling." Since that expression makes little sense in modern English, the New World Translation renders the verse in a way that is easier to understand. It says that Christians should be "aglow with the spirit."

That's a ridiculous example, and "aglow" is an even more ridiculous "translation". Metaphorically, the word means "fervent" and is so translated in numerous standard works.

In addition to its use of God"s name, accuracy, and clarity, the New World Translation has another distinction: It is distributed without charge.

The BotchTower should pay people to take it.

Why? Truth is beyond price, and it is all the JWs have to offer.

Anything else is up to the individual.

Besides which, any who have to be bought to serve Jehovah and Christ wouldn't be worth the price.

You are another who is terrified that people will actually read it all and find out what a fraud you are.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/5/2015 8:32:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 8:22:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/5/2015 7:50:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The BotchTower should pay people to take it.

Why? Truth is beyond price, and it is all the JWs have to offer.

Anything else is up to the individual.

Besides which, any who have to be bought to serve Jehovah and Christ wouldn't be worth the price.

You are another who is terrified that people will actually read it all and find out what a fraud you are.

Oh, to the contrary, I'd ENCOURAGE people to read it, right alongside a standard Greek grammar and a Greek-English lexicon. That's the best way to convince oneself that the NWT is in fact a re-writing of the Bible. It's not really a "version": it's a per-"version." It's not really a "translation": it's a re-writing. And those who perpetrated the fraud were not Greek scholars to begin with.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/5/2015 8:37:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 8:20:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/5/2015 6:39:02 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 6:19:52 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/5/2015 5:54:51 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


The Jehovah's Witnesses are a malign cult headed by a gang of a dozen unlettered men who will twist, distort, take out of context, obfuscate, and resort to pretty much every single fallacy in the Fallacy book in a attempt to present themselves as God's mouthpiece.

No efforts should be spared in denouncing, exposing and fighting them. Here's a brand new video on the topic:


https://www.youtube.com...

You can denounce them all you like, just as those you imitate denounced Christ and the Apostles, it will not benefit you any more than it did them, and you will be held responsible for the innocent blood you have shed with your lies, when Christ.

The choice is yours.

Pay no attention to the fearmongering. It's the shadiest of the shady tactics in JW apologetics' arsenal. Read, think, decide for yourself.

Now there I agree, get out your bibles, rad what God has said, and choose whether or not you believe it.

Simple as.

The "scaremongering" as you call it, comes not from the JWs, but from Jehovah, just as it did when Noah preached the same, or to use more localised examples, when the Israelites ignored Jehovah's many condemnations only to have Israel disappear off the face of the earth for more than 2 millennia.


Notice the difference. I'm not claiming to have been appointed by the creator of the Universe. I'm not telling others that they should only read, watch and listen to what I have to say and disregard everything else even before giving it the briefest of considerations.

True, but unless they read these things they cannot judge the accuracy or otherwise of them can they.

You expect them to take your word for it.

I expect nothing, just hope that they will check up on what I say.


Jehovah's witnesses are.

Yes, they are.

They are indeed God's people.


By all means, read their literature. But do read what critics have to say on the matter as well. Then make up your mind.

Think. If a friend was to walk up to you and say the following: look, just listen to me, only to me, pay no attention to bad mouthers, don't even listen to them, don't read their literature. It's all lies. Slandering lies. Don't even read, I forbid you , throw it in the waste bin straight away.

Wouldn't you be suspicious?
The watchtower should not fear scrutiny, if they have nothing to hide.

They have no fear of scrutiny, they invite it, and have put their "wares" in the public domain for many years, and never more so than now when there is massive of evidence , Historical, Scientific and prophetic.

All examined for you to read, with references and citations for you to check.

All neatly laid out, online at http://www.jw.org....

No, they have no fear of honest examination because they know that Jehovah is looking for honest hearts to draw to his son's side.

John 4:23-24
ASV(i) 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

That scripture is being fulfilled now, as it was then, and Jehovah is actively seeking honest hearted ones, and only honest hearted ones. He is using the JWs to do that.



Just think.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You certainly haven't done so so far, you have spoken without knowledge, or with only one biased kind of knowledge.

As a disfellowshipped person, I have no axe to grind with any but myself.



Read, think and decide for yourself.

Most decidedly that is all I ask, all the JWs ask.

It is not easy to become a JW, with a very few exceptions, any who survive the course either fall away quickly or stay for life.

Given you're disfellowshipped perhaps you're not up to date with how Jehovah's witnesses are constantly admonished against reading, watching and listening to so-called apostate material.

This is a terrific give away.

It shows just how scared the Governing Body is that witnesses should be exposed to their real track record.

That you would attempt to pass this as a mere incentive for one to think for oneself is disgraceful. It shows the extent to which JW language has lost its meaning. Cleaning up pubic hair from toilet seats is a "privilege" and the Governi9gn Body "welcomes" critical thinking.

Right.

Do start more threads. More links will follow shortly after.
truth_is_was_will_be
Posts: 55
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10/5/2015 9:01:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 8:37:48 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 8:20:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/5/2015 6:39:02 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 6:19:52 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/5/2015 5:54:51 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


The Jehovah's Witnesses are a malign cult headed by a gang of a dozen unlettered men who will twist, distort, take out of context, obfuscate, and resort to pretty much every single fallacy in the Fallacy book in a attempt to present themselves as God's mouthpiece.

No efforts should be spared in denouncing, exposing and fighting them. Here's a brand new video on the topic:


https://www.youtube.com...

You can denounce them all you like, just as those you imitate denounced Christ and the Apostles, it will not benefit you any more than it did them, and you will be held responsible for the innocent blood you have shed with your lies, when Christ.

The choice is yours.

Pay no attention to the fearmongering. It's the shadiest of the shady tactics in JW apologetics' arsenal. Read, think, decide for yourself.

Now there I agree, get out your bibles, rad what God has said, and choose whether or not you believe it.

Simple as.

The "scaremongering" as you call it, comes not from the JWs, but from Jehovah, just as it did when Noah preached the same, or to use more localised examples, when the Israelites ignored Jehovah's many condemnations only to have Israel disappear off the face of the earth for more than 2 millennia.


Notice the difference. I'm not claiming to have been appointed by the creator of the Universe. I'm not telling others that they should only read, watch and listen to what I have to say and disregard everything else even before giving it the briefest of considerations.

True, but unless they read these things they cannot judge the accuracy or otherwise of them can they.

You expect them to take your word for it.

I expect nothing, just hope that they will check up on what I say.


Jehovah's witnesses are.

Yes, they are.

They are indeed God's people.


By all means, read their literature. But do read what critics have to say on the matter as well. Then make up your mind.

Think. If a friend was to walk up to you and say the following: look, just listen to me, only to me, pay no attention to bad mouthers, don't even listen to them, don't read their literature. It's all lies. Slandering lies. Don't even read, I forbid you , throw it in the waste bin straight away.

Wouldn't you be suspicious?
The watchtower should not fear scrutiny, if they have nothing to hide.

They have no fear of scrutiny, they invite it, and have put their "wares" in the public domain for many years, and never more so than now when there is massive of evidence , Historical, Scientific and prophetic.

All examined for you to read, with references and citations for you to check.

All neatly laid out, online at http://www.jw.org....

No, they have no fear of honest examination because they know that Jehovah is looking for honest hearts to draw to his son's side.

John 4:23-24
ASV(i) 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

That scripture is being fulfilled now, as it was then, and Jehovah is actively seeking honest hearted ones, and only honest hearted ones. He is using the JWs to do that.



Just think.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You certainly haven't done so so far, you have spoken without knowledge, or with only one biased kind of knowledge.

As a disfellowshipped person, I have no axe to grind with any but myself.



Read, think and decide for yourself.

Most decidedly that is all I ask, all the JWs ask.

It is not easy to become a JW, with a very few exceptions, any who survive the course either fall away quickly or stay for life.

Given you're disfellowshipped perhaps you're not up to date with how Jehovah's witnesses are constantly admonished against reading, watching and listening to so-called apostate material.

This is a terrific give away.

It shows just how scared the Governing Body is that witnesses should be exposed to their real track record.


That you would attempt to pass this as a mere incentive for one to think for oneself is disgraceful. It shows the extent to which JW language has lost its meaning. Cleaning up pubic hair from toilet seats is a "privilege" and the Governi9gn Body "welcomes" critical thinking.

Right.

Do start more threads. More links will follow shortly after. : :

MCB is full of fear just like all the other religious people. They all have to lie to protect them from their lack of knowledge. Their lack of knowledge to know the Truth keeps in their fears.
RuvDraba
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10/5/2015 10:14:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Actually they are, in reality, the oldest religion on earth, though that religion has changed in form as the plan to get us back on track has progressed.

Why do I say that?

Because adherents of many New Religious Movements do, MCB.

Religion thrives on appeals to antiquity, even invented antiquity. And the conceit of faith seldom likes admitting the derivative and/or heretical origins of its thought.

The matter isn't resolved by what adherents claim, but by what independent historians and sociologists can demonstrate.

In this case, the JWs were one of several schismatic movements emerging from Charles Taze Russell's 19th century millenialist restorationist International Bible Students movement -- itself an outgrowth of a puritan Protestant split from Roman Catholicism, which split from Eastern Orthodoxy when both split from Imperial Roman Christian thought, which in turn emerged as a transplanted failed Judaic reform movement split from early Judaism, which in turn was a split from Semitic paganism, heavily informed by Zoroastrian monotheism.

But sure... every faith does a great line in historical revisionism using the same agglutinated oatmeal minds that also hide their methodologies; destroy, suppress and fabricate documents; recognise only affirmative evidence; blame adherents for failed prophecies; and deny the reality of and accountability for ignorance and error.

Compared to the laziness, conceit and dishonesty of theological thought itself, the historical revisionism we encounter in sect after sect -- including your own -- is hardly surprising.
truth_is_was_will_be
Posts: 55
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10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 10:14:59 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 1:19:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Actually they are, in reality, the oldest religion on earth, though that religion has changed in form as the plan to get us back on track has progressed.

Why do I say that?

Because adherents of many New Religious Movements do, MCB.

Religion thrives on appeals to antiquity, even invented antiquity. And the conceit of faith seldom likes admitting the derivative and/or heretical origins of its thought.

The matter isn't resolved by what adherents claim, but by what independent historians and sociologists can demonstrate.

In this case, the JWs were one of several schismatic movements emerging from Charles Taze Russell's 19th century millenialist restorationist International Bible Students movement -- itself an outgrowth of a puritan Protestant split from Roman Catholicism, which split from Eastern Orthodoxy when both split from Imperial Roman Christian thought, which in turn emerged as a transplanted failed Judaic reform movement split from early Judaism, which in turn was a split from Semitic paganism, heavily informed by Zoroastrian monotheism.

But sure... every faith does a great line in historical revisionism using the same agglutinated oatmeal minds that also hide their methodologies; destroy, suppress and fabricate documents; recognise only affirmative evidence; blame adherents for failed prophecies; and deny the reality of and accountability for ignorance and error.

Compared to the laziness, conceit and dishonesty of theological thought itself, the historical revisionism we encounter in sect after sect -- including your own -- is hardly surprising. ::

One of the greatest deceptions of all times was when Emperor Constantine accepted the role of being a pope in succession to Saint Peter, the rock, after the Romans killed all the saints who were testifying to the knowledge of God. Those evil "gnostic writings" by God's saints were then destroyed after some of their words were stolen by the writers of the new testament, which has deceived every single reader of it since the Vatican approved it as God's Word. All the religions that have been formed from the reading of the new testament and the books that those readers have written with their own interpretations of the new testament, have confused every single Christian.

The only way to know the future and how we were created is by listening to the voice of the Lord and obeying all His commandments.
RuvDraba
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10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
The only way to know the future and how we were created is by listening to the voice of the Lord and obeying all His commandments.
Unfortunately, all the words ever ascribed to gods have come from the mouths and pens of men conceited about their own importance, obscure about how those ideas arose, lazy about the need for diligence and not simply guesses, and dishonest when evidence of their ignorance and error is presented.

No sentence invoking the authority of gods should ever be believed.
truth_is_was_will_be
Posts: 55
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10/5/2015 11:23:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
The only way to know the future and how we were created is by listening to the voice of the Lord and obeying all His commandments.
Unfortunately, all the words ever ascribed to gods have come from the mouths and pens of men conceited about their own importance, obscure about how those ideas arose, lazy about the need for diligence and not simply guesses, and dishonest when evidence of their ignorance and error is presented.

You have no way of knowing how God used His prophets and us saints, Ruv. You can speak lies as well as any Christian who don't know God.

No sentence invoking the authority of gods should ever be believed. : :

Only God's chosen believers will believe the gospel and the knowledge that comes forth from His voice that us saints preach to them.

You weren't chosen to believe the knowledge of God that is not of this world. This knowledge contains the past, present and future.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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10/5/2015 11:45:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 11:23:27 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
The only way to know the future and how we were created is by listening to the voice of the Lord and obeying all His commandments.
Unfortunately, all the words ever ascribed to gods have come from the mouths and pens of men conceited about their own importance, obscure about how those ideas arose, lazy about the need for diligence and not simply guesses, and dishonest when evidence of their ignorance and error is presented.
You have no way of knowing how God used His prophets and us saints, Ruv. You can speak lies as well as any Christian who don't know God.

I can, but I spend a lot of effort trying not to, Brad. (Also: hi! I hope you're well. :D)

The issue isn't whether I can prove another man's lies, but whether another man is sufficiently humble and honest that he will give others the complete power to detect his ignorance and error.

I've yet to meet a man invoking the authority of a god who's also humble and honest enough to grant another the full rights to check and debunk his delusion and conceit, and who won't advance an idea unless it's fully checkable.

And that's the essence of what's wrong with theology intellectually, and what's wrong morally with the people when they adhere to it.

And I'm not singling you out in this, Brad. You're doing nothing more in principle than every other adherent does. It's unfair that other adherents disparage you for your claims, because you're a living parody of their own dishonesty. :)

But anyway, just as you like my atheistic approach for religious reasons, I like your religious approach for atheistic reasons. :D

Very best, Ruv. :D
truth_is_was_will_be
Posts: 55
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10/6/2015 1:49:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/5/2015 11:45:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:23:27 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
The only way to know the future and how we were created is by listening to the voice of the Lord and obeying all His commandments.
Unfortunately, all the words ever ascribed to gods have come from the mouths and pens of men conceited about their own importance, obscure about how those ideas arose, lazy about the need for diligence and not simply guesses, and dishonest when evidence of their ignorance and error is presented.
You have no way of knowing how God used His prophets and us saints, Ruv. You can speak lies as well as any Christian who don't know God.

I can, but I spend a lot of effort trying not to, Brad. (Also: hi! I hope you're well. :D)

I know you're not trying to speak lies my friend. Here's an analogy I use to teach people that don't understand what kind of lies I'm talking about;

A child whose parents tell them there is a bogeyman in the woods lacks the knowledge to know for sure whether or not there is a bogeyman in the woods. They simply believe their parents who are worried that their child might get lost in the woods. By instilling this fear in the child, the child is set to lie to someone who asks him why he doesn't go into the woods. If the child doesn't want to acknowledge that he fears the bogeyman in the woods, he will simply lie and say that he doesn't like the woods or any other excuse to end the questioning.

If the child went into the woods himself and learned there wasn't a bogeyman, then he would have the knowledge to know if it's true or not. If he had the knowledge to know for sure there wasn't a bogeyman, then he wouldn't fear going into the woods. If he is questioned why he doesn't go into the woods and his answer, "because I don't like going into the woods", it wouldn't be considered a lie. It would be a truthful answer according to his likes and dislikes.

The lack of knowledge causes fear and the one who fears might not want to show those fears so they lie. This is why most Christians have to lie instead of simply saying, " I have no idea who our Creator is or how we were created. Since they don't know our Creator and never heard his voice, they don't know anything about the future. This causes them to use the Bible as their answer to everything but since I know the Bible can't speak to anyone and it certainly doesn't understand who is reading it to detect a liar or not, these Christians remain in fear because they simply don't have the knowledge to answer the questions they are asked by non-Christians such as atheists or by me. They have to rely on their own interpretations of the biblical scriptures but they don't know for sure whether those interpretations are true or not, especially with all the various interpretations that exist in this world.

All I have to do to get them confused and angry is to ask them questions which are impossible for them to answer. I can get them to the point where their belief in Jesus is their only answer to all my questions. If these Christians had heard the voice of the Lord in their mind and obeyed all His commandments, they would have been used by him to testify to His knowledge and learn everything that I was taught. Then they wouldn't fear anything in this world or anyone asking them questions concerning the knowledge they possess.

The issue isn't whether I can prove another man's lies, but whether another man is sufficiently humble and honest that he will give others the complete power to detect his ignorance and error.

You can ask me any question you want related to the knowledge of God that was revealed to me and through his prophets and other saints. You can ask me how everything was created or what the Beast of Daniel and Revelation is. You can ask me why Christianity and all other religions exist and why God used them. If you ask me questions about worldly things that I don't understand, I will tell you that I don't understand it and if we become friends, I would listen to your experiences to try understand you better. I would have to believe your experiences in the same way you have to believe my experiences.

I've yet to meet a man invoking the authority of a god who's also humble and honest enough to grant another the full rights to check and debunk his delusion and conceit, and who won't advance an idea unless it's fully checkable.

I don't mind if you check and debunk any knowledge I share with you because it has no affect on me. Besides, I'm used to that now. Not even members like Harikrish can affect me. That's because I'm not lying about who I am or what I know to be true. The knowledge of God that I possess is invisible until written or spoken so if you want to check anything, you need to read my writings or listen to the knowledge that flows from my mouth. How would you learn about the future if you don't listen and believe?

And that's the essence of what's wrong with theology intellectually, and what's wrong morally with the people when they adhere to it.

I totally agree with you about theology and morals but none of it is wrong. It's exactly what our Creator programmed to happen to keep most of the characters in his program confused while he's using other characters to testify to his knowledge and learn who we are, what our experiences are all about and what the future will be like. : :

And I'm not singling you out in this, Brad. You're doing nothing more in principle than every other adherent does. It's unfair that other adherents disparage you for your claims, because you're a living parody of their own dishonesty. :)

To you it may appear to be a parody but to those who were chosen to listen to the voice of our Creator, it's a relief. It's very difficult for believers in this world because most of them live amongst religious people who have no idea who our Creator is. Believers were never used by our Creator to testify in writing and speaking for him so they don't have the confidence in what they believe to be true. When they listen to me speak to them about the things they believe in, they get very excited and thank me for sharing that knowledge with them. It gives them confidence to know there is a saint in the last days who is speaking for their Creator and supports their beliefs.

But anyway, just as you like my atheistic approach for religious reasons, I like your religious approach for atheistic reasons. :D

Thank you, Ruv. You are very valuable to God's plan whether you know him or not.

We're all in the same boat together but only a few in the boat know where we're headed.

Very best, Ruv. :D : :

The very best to you, too,
Brad
annanicole
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10/6/2015 2:00:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 1:49:34 AM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:45:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:23:27 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:

You can ask me any question you want related to the knowledge of God that was revealed to me and through his prophets and other saints.

We tried that. You lied about it, and lied a lot. You made this claim and that claim. It's not enough to say, "Oh, well, that one didn't work out. Here's some more nonsense for you."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
truth_is_was_will_be
Posts: 55
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10/6/2015 2:07:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 2:00:36 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/6/2015 1:49:34 AM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:45:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:23:27 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:


You can ask me any question you want related to the knowledge of God that was revealed to me and through his prophets and other saints.

We tried that. You lied about it, and lied a lot. You made this claim and that claim. It's not enough to say, "Oh, well, that one didn't work out. Here's some more nonsense for you." : :

I made one claim from the flesh and you still don't understand the difference between the flesh and the spirit of God. Everything else I testify to comes from the spirit ( mind ) of our Creator.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/6/2015 2:12:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 2:07:34 AM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/6/2015 2:00:36 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/6/2015 1:49:34 AM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:45:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:23:27 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:


You can ask me any question you want related to the knowledge of God that was revealed to me and through his prophets and other saints.

We tried that. You lied about it, and lied a lot. You made this claim and that claim. It's not enough to say, "Oh, well, that one didn't work out. Here's some more nonsense for you." : :

I made one claim from the flesh and you still don't understand the difference between the flesh and the spirit of God. Everything else I testify to comes from the spirit ( mind ) of our Creator.

Ummm .... correction. You made the claim from the spirit of God - and when questioned about it - you restated it. If anyone around here is confused about your prior claims, it's you.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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10/6/2015 2:44:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 1:49:34 AM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:45:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:23:27 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
The only way to know the future and how we were created is by listening to the voice of the Lord and obeying all His commandments.
Unfortunately, all the words ever ascribed to gods have come from the mouths and pens of men conceited about their own importance, obscure about how those ideas arose, lazy about the need for diligence and not simply guesses, and dishonest when evidence of their ignorance and error is presented.
You have no way of knowing how God used His prophets and us saints, Ruv. You can speak lies as well as any Christian who don't know God.

I can, but I spend a lot of effort trying not to, Brad. (Also: hi! I hope you're well. :D)

I know you're not trying to speak lies my friend. Here's an analogy I use to teach people that don't understand what kind of lies I'm talking about;

A child whose parents tell them there is a bogeyman in the woods lacks the knowledge to know for sure whether or not there is a bogeyman in the woods. They simply believe their parents who are worried that their child might get lost in the woods. By instilling this fear in the child, the child is set to lie to someone who asks him why he doesn't go into the woods. If the child doesn't want to acknowledge that he fears the bogeyman in the woods, he will simply lie and say that he doesn't like the woods or any other excuse to end the questioning.

If the child went into the woods himself and learned there wasn't a bogeyman, then he would have the knowledge to know if it's true or not.

We're largely agreed on this, Brad. One man's overzealous conjecture becomes another's unquestioned lie.

But I don't think the answer is to replace others' lies with one's own.

It's not enough to convince oneself and invite others to disprove one's claims. We have to assemble the evidence for and against diligently and accountably, submit it to independent and best practice review and critique, such that if someone else could do a better job of evidence and transparency, we must too.

We owe ourselves and others nothing less.

This is why personal revelations can never have legitimacy as knowledge -- unless they can reliably predict the significant, immediate, specific, and independently-confirmable.

And no matter how passionately believed and grandly stated, nobody's conjectures, when tested, do that.
mylovedones
Posts: 1
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10/6/2015 5:39:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 2:44:06 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/6/2015 1:49:34 AM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:45:46 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:23:27 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:20:01 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/5/2015 11:11:07 PM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
The only way to know the future and how we were created is by listening to the voice of the Lord and obeying all His commandments.
Unfortunately, all the words ever ascribed to gods have come from the mouths and pens of men conceited about their own importance, obscure about how those ideas arose, lazy about the need for diligence and not simply guesses, and dishonest when evidence of their ignorance and error is presented.
You have no way of knowing how God used His prophets and us saints, Ruv. You can speak lies as well as any Christian who don't know God.

I can, but I spend a lot of effort trying not to, Brad. (Also: hi! I hope you're well. :D)

I know you're not trying to speak lies my friend. Here's an analogy I use to teach people that don't understand what kind of lies I'm talking about;

A child whose parents tell them there is a bogeyman in the woods lacks the knowledge to know for sure whether or not there is a bogeyman in the woods. They simply believe their parents who are worried that their child might get lost in the woods. By instilling this fear in the child, the child is set to lie to someone who asks him why he doesn't go into the woods. If the child doesn't want to acknowledge that he fears the bogeyman in the woods, he will simply lie and say that he doesn't like the woods or any other excuse to end the questioning.

If the child went into the woods himself and learned there wasn't a bogeyman, then he would have the knowledge to know if it's true or not.

We're largely agreed on this, Brad. One man's overzealous conjecture becomes another's unquestioned lie.

But I don't think the answer is to replace others' lies with one's own.

It's not enough to convince oneself and invite others to disprove one's claims. We have to assemble the evidence for and against diligently and accountably, submit it to independent and best practice review and critique, such that if someone else could do a better job of evidence and transparency, we must too.

We owe ourselves and others nothing less.

This is why personal revelations can never have legitimacy as knowledge -- unless they can reliably predict the significant, immediate, specific, and independently-confirmable.

All the knowledge of this world came from personal experiences, Ruv. Those who get information to build something new in this world came from a personal experience within their thoughts. All the languages to explain those hand built things all came from personal experiences. Everything that we read in books comes from personal experiences either from a person's senses or directly from the mind of our Creator.

You don't have to continue to lie to me my friend. I understand where everything came from.

And no matter how passionately believed and grandly stated, nobody's conjectures, when tested, do that. : :

It's impossible to test the thoughts of man until those thoughts turn into something visible that man can experience. Once those thoughts are written down on paper, then the readers of those thoughts can judge them. But before they are written down, those thoughts are totally invisible to everyone else, including all man's fears.
dee-em
Posts: 6,474
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10/6/2015 6:01:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 5:39:00 AM, mylovedones wrote:

It's impossible to test the thoughts of man until those thoughts turn into something visible that man can experience. Once those thoughts are written down on paper, then the readers of those thoughts can judge them. But before they are written down, those thoughts are totally invisible to everyone else, including all man's fears.

This has to be a new record for BoG. One forum post and he's bitten the dust. Somebody is on the ball today.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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10/6/2015 7:35:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 5:39:00 AM, mylovedones wrote:
At 10/6/2015 2:44:06 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/6/2015 1:49:34 AM, truth_is_was_will_be wrote:
A child whose parents tell them there is a bogeyman in the woods lacks the knowledge to know for sure whether or not there is a bogeyman in the woods. They simply believe their parents who are worried that their child might get lost in the woods. By instilling this fear in the child, the child is set to lie to someone who asks him why he doesn't go into the woods. If the child doesn't want to acknowledge that he fears the bogeyman in the woods, he will simply lie and say that he doesn't like the woods or any other excuse to end the questioning.

If the child went into the woods himself and learned there wasn't a bogeyman, then he would have the knowledge to know if it's true or not.

We're largely agreed on this, Brad. One man's overzealous conjecture becomes another's unquestioned lie.

But I don't think the answer is to replace others' lies with one's own.

It's not enough to convince oneself and invite others to disprove one's claims. We have to assemble the evidence for and against diligently and accountably, submit it to independent and best practice review and critique, such that if someone else could do a better job of evidence and transparency, we must too.

We owe ourselves and others nothing less.

This is why personal revelations can never have legitimacy as knowledge -- unless they can reliably predict the significant, immediate, specific, and independently-confirmable.

All the knowledge of this world came from personal experiences, Ruv. Those who get information to build something new in this world came from a personal experience within their thoughts.

Our experiences are partly informed by the events that occur to us, Brad, and partly the workings of our mind.

But all minds are flawed in operation -- yours, mine, everyone's. Without training to observe, we fail to notice important detail, and even with training we overlook things. Without training to observe impartially, we introduce our own expectations, biases and prejudices into what we observe, and even with training this can occur.

This is why we cannot trust observation to the thoughts of individual or untrained minds, no matter how passionately they may believe, or how earnestly they argue. We need open, independent, empirically trained expertise for review.

And no theology or spiritualism withstands such scrutiny; it never has. And because of the very human, ignorant, biased, self-interested processes by which theology is produced, I think it's unlikely it ever will.
Composer
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10/6/2015 8:13:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Botchtower (aptly named!) were Polytheist until 1954.

Now they preach a 100% opposite tune!

The Original & Earliest believers were NOT Polytheist hence the Earliest & Original believers were NOT Botchtowerites!

&

MCB asserts he can speak on their ideological behalf, however the reality is totally different in that MCB is just another Apostate loser, reject & vomit to them!

bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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10/6/2015 9:43:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 8:13:10 AM, Composer wrote:
The Botchtower (aptly named!) were Polytheist until 1954.

Now they preach a 100% opposite tune!

The Original & Earliest believers were NOT Polytheist hence the Earliest & Original believers were NOT Botchtowerites!

&

MCB asserts he can speak on their ideological behalf, however the reality is totally different in that MCB is just another Apostate loser, reject & vomit to them!




Now, now they have proof that dinosaurs were actually jehovians and they will produce the evidence at the same time as they always do.
Did you say never?
Yes that's right.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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10/6/2015 4:51:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
All atheists, look at my signature below...
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/6/2015 6:00:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 4:51:50 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
All atheists, look at my signature below...

Lol, depends on the "Christian". Some don't play chess.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/6/2015 6:01:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/6/2015 6:01:14 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/6/2015 5:39:00 AM, mylovedones wrote:

It's impossible to test the thoughts of man until those thoughts turn into something visible that man can experience. Once those thoughts are written down on paper, then the readers of those thoughts can judge them. But before they are written down, those thoughts are totally invisible to everyone else, including all man's fears.

This has to be a new record for BoG. One forum post and he's bitten the dust. Somebody is on the ball today.

Yeah, but he soon came back like a phoenix, lol.