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Richard Dawkins Sermon: The Atheist Religion

dee-em
Posts: 6,472
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10/7/2015 11:50:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Because using religious terminology to characterize a talk given by a renowned author makes him look bad, right? The irony. Lol.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/7/2015 11:56:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
A quote from the world reknowned Atheist author dee-em's "The Art of Trolling" and other popular books such as "We Don't Know How It Happened, But it Wasn't God", and "I Can't Explain How it all Started, So Have Faith Little Ones".

"Because using religious terminology to characterize a talk given by a renowned author makes him look bad, right? The irony. Lol."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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10/8/2015 12:53:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

IvS, did Dawkins create atheism? I was an atheist for forty years before I'd ever heard of him.

Does he speak for atheism? Or is he just a nontheistic scientist concerned about religious superstition, trying to make the world more rational, humane and accountable for its beliefs?

While I respect Dawkins' intentions, I personally think his arguments are patchy. His human insights aren't as strong as his scientific insights. I don't subscribe to all his views, and wouldn't encourage anyone -- theist or atheist -- to follow some guy's ideas just because they're in a famous book. On the other hand, it's good to have such ideas contesting religious dogma, and being themselves contested. That's not only harmless, I think it's necessary.
dee-em
Posts: 6,472
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10/8/2015 12:57:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 11:56:53 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A quote from the world reknowned Atheist author dee-em's "The Art of Trolling" and other popular books such as "We Don't Know How It Happened, But it Wasn't God", and "I Can't Explain How it all Started, So Have Faith Little Ones".

"Because using religious terminology to characterize a talk given by a renowned author makes him look bad, right? The irony. Lol."

I notice you don't reply to posters directly so that you can slip in your responses unnoticed. Hit and run. Another aspect to your dishonest approach to intellectual discussion on this forum.

Do you understand the irony? Probably not. Let me spell it out for you. When you use terms like "sermon", "atheist religion", "religious beliefs", and "faith" in relation to Richard Dawkins and atheism, you are seeking to disparage them. Yet by doing so, this is a tacit admission on your part that those terms are derogatory. You are rubbishing your own worldview! It's hilarious.

From the quality and tone of your posts, I'm starting to have the sneaking suspicion that you are a reincarnation of Saint_of_Me who then morphed into August_Burns_Red. I could be wrong, but I usually trust my gut instinct. He was unrepentantly dishonest too.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/8/2015 2:14:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 12:57:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:56:53 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A quote from the world reknowned Atheist author dee-em's "The Art of Trolling" and other popular books such as "We Don't Know How It Happened, But it Wasn't God", and "I Can't Explain How it all Started, So Have Faith Little Ones".

"Because using religious terminology to characterize a talk given by a renowned author makes him look bad, right? The irony. Lol."

I notice you don't reply to posters directly so that you can slip in your responses unnoticed. Hit and run. Another aspect to your dishonest approach to intellectual discussion on this forum.

Do you understand the irony? Probably not. Let me spell it out for you. When you use terms like "sermon", "atheist religion", "religious beliefs", and "faith" in relation to Richard Dawkins and atheism, you are seeking to disparage them. Yet by doing so, this is a tacit admission on your part that those terms are derogatory. You are rubbishing your own worldview! It's hilarious.

From the quality and tone of your posts, I'm starting to have the sneaking suspicion that you are a reincarnation of Saint_of_Me who then morphed into August_Burns_Red. I could be wrong, but I usually trust my gut instinct. He was unrepentantly dishonest too.

I'm glad you noticed me, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/8/2015 2:15:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 12:57:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:56:53 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A quote from the world reknowned Atheist author dee-em's "The Art of Trolling" and other popular books such as "We Don't Know How It Happened, But it Wasn't God", and "I Can't Explain How it all Started, So Have Faith Little Ones".

"Because using religious terminology to characterize a talk given by a renowned author makes him look bad, right? The irony. Lol."

I notice you don't reply to posters directly so that you can slip in your responses unnoticed. Hit and run. Another aspect to your dishonest approach to intellectual discussion on this forum.

Do you understand the irony? Probably not. Let me spell it out for you. When you use terms like "sermon", "atheist religion", "religious beliefs", and "faith" in relation to Richard Dawkins and atheism, you are seeking to disparage them. Yet by doing so, this is a tacit admission on your part that those terms are derogatory. You are rubbishing your own worldview! It's hilarious.

From the quality and tone of your posts, I'm starting to have the sneaking suspicion that you are a reincarnation of Saint_of_Me who then morphed into August_Burns_Red. I could be wrong, but I usually trust my gut instinct. He was unrepentantly dishonest too.

I am not anyone but me.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/8/2015 2:16:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:15:21 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 12:57:20 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:56:53 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A quote from the world reknowned Atheist author dee-em's "The Art of Trolling" and other popular books such as "We Don't Know How It Happened, But it Wasn't God", and "I Can't Explain How it all Started, So Have Faith Little Ones".

"Because using religious terminology to characterize a talk given by a renowned author makes him look bad, right? The irony. Lol."

I notice you don't reply to posters directly so that you can slip in your responses unnoticed. Hit and run. Another aspect to your dishonest approach to intellectual discussion on this forum.

Do you understand the irony? Probably not. Let me spell it out for you. When you use terms like "sermon", "atheist religion", "religious beliefs", and "faith" in relation to Richard Dawkins and atheism, you are seeking to disparage them. Yet by doing so, this is a tacit admission on your part that those terms are derogatory. You are rubbishing your own worldview! It's hilarious.

From the quality and tone of your posts, I'm starting to have the sneaking suspicion that you are a reincarnation of Saint_of_Me who then morphed into August_Burns_Red. I could be wrong, but I usually trust my gut instinct. He was unrepentantly dishonest too.

I am not anyone but me.

Perhaps you are my troll self pretending to argue with myself from another computer. Maybe unicorns are just horses that evolved horns.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,622
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10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Geogeer
Posts: 4,263
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10/8/2015 2:54:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 11:52:22 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Pastor Dawkins gives an inspiring sermon on how we may just be a simulation...

http://youtu.be...

BOG is Richard Dawkins?!?
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,110
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10/8/2015 4:47:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.

You might as well say,'No one knows what color the car is. Therefore, you have faith that it is blue'

Your statement is non-sensical. My actual position is:

No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore, I don't know (and you don't either). No belief required.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/8/2015 11:04:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

Sigh.

There comes a point when after having been explained countless times what science is, what the scientific method is, what objective evidence is, spewing nonsense of this calibre cannot but cast doubts on the real intentions of the OP.

Still your inclination is rather to make inflammatory deliberately offensive posts in hopes of eliciting a knee jerk reaction. In honesty, you've shown yourself incapable of anything more substantial than one-liners .

The stupidity of the video you linked is in total harmony with the stupidity of your post.
bulproof
Posts: 25,237
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10/8/2015 1:23:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

Why do, christians especially, worship Richard Dawkins?
Why do they consider him a god or at the least a prophet of their god?
I can't, for the life of me, understand why they are so obsessed with Richard Dawkins?
Can any of you godbotherers explain why you have him so high in your pantheon of gods?
Or even why you think he is one?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/9/2015 3:08:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 1:23:36 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

Why do, christians especially, worship Richard Dawkins?
Why do they consider him a god or at the least a prophet of their god?
I can't, for the life of me, understand why they are so obsessed with Richard Dawkins?
Can any of you godbotherers explain why you have him so high in your pantheon of gods?
Or even why you think he is one?

So...
You enjoy this thread?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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10/9/2015 4:22:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.

The reason this is false, IvS is your unsupported and unsupportable premise that the only agency that could create a universe is a character defined by some religious theology.

Any metaphysical agency without a theology might be better classed as something else: demon, spirit, fairy, alien, cybernetic intelligence, or unclassifiable.

Atheism isn't the position that no metaphysical agencies exist; it's the rejection of theological authority -- or if you want to state an affirmation (though it's often not), it's the notion that the principal constructions of theology should not be treated as real.

That does not require the position that the universe appeared naturally and spontaneously. You've ignored all the accounts of cosmogeny that theology doesn't predict.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/9/2015 4:54:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 4:22:11 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.

The reason this is false, IvS is your unsupported and unsupportable premise that the only agency that could create a universe is a character defined by some religious theology.

Any metaphysical agency without a theology might be better classed as something else: demon, spirit, fairy, alien, cybernetic intelligence, or unclassifiable.

Atheism isn't the position that no metaphysical agencies exist; it's the rejection of theological authority -- or if you want to state an affirmation (though it's often not), it's the notion that the principal constructions of theology should not be treated as real.

That does not require the position that the universe appeared naturally and spontaneously. You've ignored all the accounts of cosmogeny that theology doesn't predict.

There's a fundamental difference here. Fairies, goblins, unicorns, the Easter rabbit, etc. Did not walk the earth. Jesus did.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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10/9/2015 5:24:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 4:54:20 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 4:22:11 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.

The reason this is false, IvS is your unsupported and unsupportable premise that the only agency that could create a universe is a character defined by some religious theology.

Any metaphysical agency without a theology might be better classed as something else: demon, spirit, fairy, alien, cybernetic intelligence, or unclassifiable.

Atheism isn't the position that no metaphysical agencies exist; it's the rejection of theological authority -- or if you want to state an affirmation (though it's often not), it's the notion that the principal constructions of theology should not be treated as real.

That does not require the position that the universe appeared naturally and spontaneously. You've ignored all the accounts of cosmogeny that theology doesn't predict.

There's a fundamental difference here. Fairies, goblins, unicorns, the Easter rabbit, etc. Did not walk the earth. Jesus did.

Ironicly, there's the same amount of evidence for Jesus than for goblins and unicorns...
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/9/2015 5:30:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 5:24:43 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/9/2015 4:54:20 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 4:22:11 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.

The reason this is false, IvS is your unsupported and unsupportable premise that the only agency that could create a universe is a character defined by some religious theology.

Any metaphysical agency without a theology might be better classed as something else: demon, spirit, fairy, alien, cybernetic intelligence, or unclassifiable.

Atheism isn't the position that no metaphysical agencies exist; it's the rejection of theological authority -- or if you want to state an affirmation (though it's often not), it's the notion that the principal constructions of theology should not be treated as real.

That does not require the position that the universe appeared naturally and spontaneously. You've ignored all the accounts of cosmogeny that theology doesn't predict.

There's a fundamental difference here. Fairies, goblins, unicorns, the Easter rabbit, etc. Did not walk the earth. Jesus did.

Ironicly, there's the same amount of evidence for Jesus than for goblins and unicorns...

If you believe Jesus did not exist, you stand against many early church period's secular writings on him. You alsostand against almost all historians including Atheist historians. What historical evidence do you have for fairies or goblins? There is more "evidence" and testimonies of the time about Jesus than Tiberius Caesar. Do you believe that Tiberius Caesar did not exist?
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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10/9/2015 6:04:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 5:30:47 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 5:24:43 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/9/2015 4:54:20 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 4:22:11 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.

The reason this is false, IvS is your unsupported and unsupportable premise that the only agency that could create a universe is a character defined by some religious theology.

Any metaphysical agency without a theology might be better classed as something else: demon, spirit, fairy, alien, cybernetic intelligence, or unclassifiable.

Atheism isn't the position that no metaphysical agencies exist; it's the rejection of theological authority -- or if you want to state an affirmation (though it's often not), it's the notion that the principal constructions of theology should not be treated as real.

That does not require the position that the universe appeared naturally and spontaneously. You've ignored all the accounts of cosmogeny that theology doesn't predict.

There's a fundamental difference here. Fairies, goblins, unicorns, the Easter rabbit, etc. Did not walk the earth. Jesus did.

Ironicly, there's the same amount of evidence for Jesus than for goblins and unicorns...

If you believe Jesus did not exist, you stand against many early church period's secular writings on him. You alsostand against almost all historians including Atheist historians. What historical evidence do you have for fairies or goblins? There is more "evidence" and testimonies of the time about Jesus than Tiberius Caesar. Do you believe that Tiberius Caesar did not exist?

Could you show me those supposed evidences and testimonies about Jesus?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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10/9/2015 7:14:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 4:54:20 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 4:22:11 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.

The reason this is false, IvS is your unsupported and unsupportable premise that the only agency that could create a universe is a character defined by some religious theology.

Any metaphysical agency without a theology might be better classed as something else: demon, spirit, fairy, alien, cybernetic intelligence, or unclassifiable.

Atheism isn't the position that no metaphysical agencies exist; it's the rejection of theological authority -- or if you want to state an affirmation (though it's often not), it's the notion that the principal constructions of theology should not be treated as real.

That does not require the position that the universe appeared naturally and spontaneously. You've ignored all the accounts of cosmogeny that theology doesn't predict.

There's a fundamental difference here. Fairies, goblins, unicorns, the Easter rabbit, etc. Did not walk the earth. Jesus did.

Let's agree that multiple agitators for a Hellenised Judaic reform movement walked the earth, that the movement failed in its birthplace, and that some agitators were persecuted and killed.

Now you need to demonstrate that one of them was worthy of worship as a god.

Bear in mind that miracles and marvels -- even if they occurred -- might be proof of magic; but magic is not moral authority, and is not the right to be worshiped.

So where is the god in the Judaic reform movement?
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/9/2015 9:02:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 7:14:42 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/9/2015 4:54:20 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 4:22:11 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:17 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:32:01 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

What's ironic is how many believers say they don't follow a religion, yet will say atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a belief. No one knows what the true start event was. Therefore you have faith that God does not exist.

The reason this is false, IvS is your unsupported and unsupportable premise that the only agency that could create a universe is a character defined by some religious theology.

Any metaphysical agency without a theology might be better classed as something else: demon, spirit, fairy, alien, cybernetic intelligence, or unclassifiable.

Atheism isn't the position that no metaphysical agencies exist; it's the rejection of theological authority -- or if you want to state an affirmation (though it's often not), it's the notion that the principal constructions of theology should not be treated as real.

That does not require the position that the universe appeared naturally and spontaneously. You've ignored all the accounts of cosmogeny that theology doesn't predict.

There's a fundamental difference here. Fairies, goblins, unicorns, the Easter rabbit, etc. Did not walk the earth. Jesus did.

Let's agree that multiple agitators for a Hellenised Judaic reform movement walked the earth, that the movement failed in its birthplace, and that some agitators were persecuted and killed.

Now you need to demonstrate that one of them was worthy of worship as a god.

Bear in mind that miracles and marvels -- even if they occurred -- might be proof of magic; but magic is not moral authority, and is not the right to be worshiped.

So where is the god in the Judaic reform movement?

Okay. Let's say he 100% existed as a person, which historians believe he did. Let's say he 100% truthfully ascended into Heaven, raised the dead, turned water into wine, caused the lame to walk, healed leppers, raised from the dead himself, etc. Then we know he had power over life and death and authority over creation to his will. Now the question is, in your terms, "why should I give him any moral authority in my life? Who is he that deserves such authority?"

He taught love your enemy. Then he forgave the very people that were killing him and torturing him. That takes way more self control than I can possibly imagine. Peter cuts off the Centaurion's ear as they try to arrest Jesus. Jesus tells him this is his choice, must be done, and to disenguage from a combative mode. He then puts back on the soldier's ear and heals him from the attack. He taught forgiveness to all for all. (Hate the sin not the sinner). He taught mercy, kindness, patience, meekness, humility, and the "goldenrule".(Do unto other as you would have themdo unto you)(reference the Sermon on the Mount)

Then ultimately, he layed down his life as his final act as a statement to all. The statement to me is this. God, in all his power, showed restraint, forgiveness, and mercy. Instead of retribution, he sought the "high ground.

Now, in fairness, the opossition will rebutal with the Armageddon scenario in Revelation saying, God does not seem "merciful, forgiving, kind, etc, in this depiction, and in fact, he is not. This must be fairly viewed in context. It tells us his eyes are ablazed with fire and he is wroth.(extremely angry) Why?

It says his vesture is dipped in the blood of his children. (Think if you were face to face with the violent, unremorseful murderer of your kids). He is facing down the Antichrist who has beheaded in mass his children for standing behind his name. If a father has no sense of desiring justice towards the murder of his children, is he moral? I say no. People say, why does "Hell" exist? First off the Bible is clear that God judges upon degree of fault by "equal weights and measures". It follows by saying"God judges the heart". And concludes with, "God judges the motives of men." The context of "Hell" is misunderstood and not referenced in degrees. Jesus depicts that anyone there recieves what they gave or did not give to others.(what goes around comes around) He also says that "God can destroy the soul in Hell".(to destroy is to dismantle it into nothing, to no longer exist as what you were or at all) We cannot judge a judgement in the way we depict it but only as what it actually is. If a court is "just" then it executes justice. If Jesus had been "unjust" then we could not trust his judgement. But as I exampled above, his reactions to people were not only fair, but unreasonably fair. Most humans would not have his Biblically referenced restraint. Based on his reactions to his own enemies, to tick him off takes quite a bit of dark, self deluted, unforgiving, unmerciful, unhumbled, self worshipping tact and effort on the part of his "enemy". He shows anger almost never in the New Testament.

His Anger:
1)Against the Pharisee priests. For? Murder, overtithe production, self glorification, self worship, theft of the poor, blatant greed beyond measure.

2)The moneychangers. For? Blatant theft of the poor, mockery of God, greed beyond measure.

There is a trend here. If you want to tick him off, make it 100%, all about yourself, show no mercy, do not forgive others, show no empathy/sympathy, etc.

So was he against the Pharisee priests? Were they judged? Probably so. What if they had changed/came to him? That would have changed their judgement. But to recieve Christ causes change. Does it make one perfect as in "absolute zero" perfection? No. No one is "perfect". Is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible. But try it sometime. No one will pull it off.

So what is the difference between a well judged man and a Pharisee priest? The well judged man accepted Christ. From there he hears the voice.(of God) he becomes obediant. Perfect? No. But a follower of. Whenyou follow someone, you will not be perfect, but you will show a trail very similar to them in many ways. It is not evidence of perfection. It is evidence of listening, changing, following...him.

He said "my words are life". His words. In other words,"apply his words". Love, patience, kindness, mercy, forgiveness, etc. This leads to life. Hear his voice and apply. Have a conscience. Be a human being. Perfect? No. Changed? Yes. How much? It's different for all.Mine is between He and I. Yours would be between you and him. His relationship to each individual is unique.

Finally I quote this from Christ.

Jesus-"The sheep hear my voice. (Sheep is not a derogatory reference. He is given the same name in "the lamb of God. It means to follow.)

Jesus-"My words are life"

How can a man be saved?(he was asked)
"Be born again"
"Come to God as a little child"
-Little children trust adults to help them, provide for them, they trust them, they love more innocently and childlike. We are told to do the same to God. We approach him like a child approaches Daddy. We listen. We mess up. Our conscience is spoken to. We change over time. We hear him. Some listen better than others, but all are His and serve different roles in reality and eternity. I am the stubborn child who works hard to change but has to fight to do so. Nevertheless, I am 100 times better than I once was. A change happened. Not perfection. Simply his presence changes anyone and to different degrees for each individual.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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10/9/2015 9:18:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

Okay. Let's say he 100% existed as a person, which historians believe he did. Let's say he 100% truthfully ascended into Heaven, raised the dead, turned water into wine, caused the lame to walk, healed leppers, raised from the dead himself, etc.

There is zero evidence that he did any of these things so your percentage is way off. So lets say, 0% truthfully.

Then we know he had power over life and death and authority over creation to his will. Now the question is, in your terms, "why should I give him any moral authority in my life? Who is he that deserves such authority?"

He taught love your enemy. Then he forgave the very people that were killing him and torturing him. That takes way more self control than I can possibly imagine. Peter cuts off the Centaurion's ear as they try to arrest Jesus. Jesus tells him this is his choice, must be done, and to disenguage from a combative mode. He then puts back on the soldier's ear and heals him from the attack. He taught forgiveness to all for all. (Hate the sin not the sinner). He taught mercy, kindness, patience, meekness, humility, and the "goldenrule".(Do unto other as you would have themdo unto you)(reference the Sermon on the Mount)

It's all a pretty story and the Golden Rule is an excellent personal philosophy but none of that proves anything since there's no independent corroboration of any of it.

Then ultimately, he layed down his life as his final act as a statement to all. The statement to me is this. God, in all his power, showed restraint, forgiveness, and mercy. Instead of retribution, he sought the "high ground.

Again a nice bit of fiction. Not fact.

Now, in fairness, the opossition will rebutal with the Armageddon scenario in Revelation saying, God does not seem "merciful, forgiving, kind, etc, in this depiction, and in fact, he is not. This must be fairly viewed in context. It tells us his eyes are ablazed with fire and he is wroth.(extremely angry) Why?

It says his vesture is dipped in the blood of his children. (Think if you were face to face with the violent, unremorseful murderer of your kids). He is facing down the Antichrist who has beheaded in mass his children for standing behind his name. If a father has no sense of desiring justice towards the murder of his children, is he moral? I say no. People say, why does "Hell" exist? First off the Bible is clear that God judges upon degree of fault by "equal weights and measures". It follows by saying"God judges the heart". And concludes with, "God judges the motives of men." The context of "Hell" is misunderstood and not referenced in degrees. Jesus depicts that anyone there recieves what they gave or did not give to others.(what goes around comes around) He also says that "God can destroy the soul in Hell".(to destroy is to dismantle it into nothing, to no longer exist as what you were or at all) We cannot judge a judgement in the way we depict it but only as what it actually is. If a court is "just" then it executes justice. If Jesus had been "unjust" then we could not trust his judgement. But as I exampled above, his reactions to people were not only fair, but unreasonably fair. Most humans would not have his Biblically referenced restraint. Based on his reactions to his own enemies, to tick him off takes quite a bit of dark, self deluted, unforgiving, unmerciful, unhumbled, self worshipping tact and effort on the part of his "enemy". He shows anger almost never in the New Testament.

Still more fiction.

His Anger:
1)Against the Pharisee priests. For? Murder, overtithe production, self glorification, self worship, theft of the poor, blatant greed beyond measure.

2)The moneychangers. For? Blatant theft of the poor, mockery of God, greed beyond measure.

There is a trend here. If you want to tick him off, make it 100%, all about yourself, show no mercy, do not forgive others, show no empathy/sympathy, etc.

So was he against the Pharisee priests? Were they judged? Probably so. What if they had changed/came to him? That would have changed their judgement. But to recieve Christ causes change. Does it make one perfect as in "absolute zero" perfection? No. No one is "perfect". Is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible. But try it sometime. No one will pull it off.

So what is the difference between a well judged man and a Pharisee priest? The well judged man accepted Christ. From there he hears the voice.(of God) he becomes obediant. Perfect? No. But a follower of. Whenyou follow someone, you will not be perfect, but you will show a trail very similar to them in many ways. It is not evidence of perfection. It is evidence of listening, changing, following...him.

He said "my words are life". His words. In other words,"apply his words". Love, patience, kindness, mercy, forgiveness, etc. This leads to life. Hear his voice and apply. Have a conscience. Be a human being. Perfect? No. Changed? Yes. How much? It's different for all.Mine is between He and I. Yours would be between you and him. His relationship to each individual is unique.

Finally I quote this from Christ.

Jesus-"The sheep hear my voice. (Sheep is not a derogatory reference. He is given the same name in "the lamb of God. It means to follow.)

Jesus-"My words are life"

How can a man be saved?(he was asked)
"Be born again"
"Come to God as a little child"
-Little children trust adults to help them, provide for them, they trust them, they love more innocently and childlike. We are told to do the same to God. We approach him like a child approaches Daddy. We listen. We mess up. Our conscience is spoken to. We change over time. We hear him. Some listen better than others, but all are His and serve different roles in reality and eternity. I am the stubborn child who works hard to change but has to fight to do so. Nevertheless, I am 100 times better than I once was. A change happened. Not perfection. Simply his presence changes anyone

Yet more fiction and purely personal feelings that cannot in any way be verified or substantiated.

The bible is the claim, there is no evidence to support said claim and what evidence there is only says some itinerant Jew was causing trouble for the Romans and he was executed.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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10/9/2015 9:20:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

Atheism is a belief in factual evidence but not a religeon. Athiests don't pray to or worship anything. We simply look at things rationally and understand that all evidence points to a naturally created universe without intervention from a creator.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/9/2015 10:42:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 9:20:29 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

Atheism is a belief in factual evidence but not a religeon. Athiests don't pray to or worship anything. We simply look at things rationally and understand that all evidence points to a naturally created universe without intervention from a creator.

Okay. How did that happen?
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/9/2015 10:49:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 9:18:31 PM, dhardage wrote:

Okay. Let's say he 100% existed as a person, which historians believe he did. Let's say he 100% truthfully ascended into Heaven, raised the dead, turned water into wine, caused the lame to walk, healed leppers, raised from the dead himself, etc.

There is zero evidence that he did any of these things so your percentage is way off. So lets say, 0% truthfully.

Then we know he had power over life and death and authority over creation to his will. Now the question is, in your terms, "why should I give him any moral authority in my life? Who is he that deserves such authority?"

He taught love your enemy. Then he forgave the very people that were killing him and torturing him. That takes way more self control than I can possibly imagine. Peter cuts off the Centaurion's ear as they try to arrest Jesus. Jesus tells him this is his choice, must be done, and to disenguage from a combative mode. He then puts back on the soldier's ear and heals him from the attack. He taught forgiveness to all for all. (Hate the sin not the sinner). He taught mercy, kindness, patience, meekness, humility, and the "goldenrule".(Do unto other as you would have themdo unto you)(reference the Sermon on the Mount)

It's all a pretty story and the Golden Rule is an excellent personal philosophy but none of that proves anything since there's no independent corroboration of any of it.

Then ultimately, he layed down his life as his final act as a statement to all. The statement to me is this. God, in all his power, showed restraint, forgiveness, and mercy. Instead of retribution, he sought the "high ground.

Again a nice bit of fiction. Not fact.

Now, in fairness, the opossition will rebutal with the Armageddon scenario in Revelation saying, God does not seem "merciful, forgiving, kind, etc, in this depiction, and in fact, he is not. This must be fairly viewed in context. It tells us his eyes are ablazed with fire and he is wroth.(extremely angry) Why?

It says his vesture is dipped in the blood of his children. (Think if you were face to face with the violent, unremorseful murderer of your kids). He is facing down the Antichrist who has beheaded in mass his children for standing behind his name. If a father has no sense of desiring justice towards the murder of his children, is he moral? I say no. People say, why does "Hell" exist? First off the Bible is clear that God judges upon degree of fault by "equal weights and measures". It follows by saying"God judges the heart". And concludes with, "God judges the motives of men." The context of "Hell" is misunderstood and not referenced in degrees. Jesus depicts that anyone there recieves what they gave or did not give to others.(what goes around comes around) He also says that "God can destroy the soul in Hell".(to destroy is to dismantle it into nothing, to no longer exist as what you were or at all) We cannot judge a judgement in the way we depict it but only as what it actually is. If a court is "just" then it executes justice. If Jesus had been "unjust" then we could not trust his judgement. But as I exampled above, his reactions to people were not only fair, but unreasonably fair. Most humans would not have his Biblically referenced restraint. Based on his reactions to his own enemies, to tick him off takes quite a bit of dark, self deluted, unforgiving, unmerciful, unhumbled, self worshipping tact and effort on the part of his "enemy". He shows anger almost never in the New Testament.

Still more fiction.

His Anger:
1)Against the Pharisee priests. For? Murder, overtithe production, self glorification, self worship, theft of the poor, blatant greed beyond measure.

2)The moneychangers. For? Blatant theft of the poor, mockery of God, greed beyond measure.

There is a trend here. If you want to tick him off, make it 100%, all about yourself, show no mercy, do not forgive others, show no empathy/sympathy, etc.

So was he against the Pharisee priests? Were they judged? Probably so. What if they had changed/came to him? That would have changed their judgement. But to recieve Christ causes change. Does it make one perfect as in "absolute zero" perfection? No. No one is "perfect". Is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible. But try it sometime. No one will pull it off.

So what is the difference between a well judged man and a Pharisee priest? The well judged man accepted Christ. From there he hears the voice.(of God) he becomes obediant. Perfect? No. But a follower of. Whenyou follow someone, you will not be perfect, but you will show a trail very similar to them in many ways. It is not evidence of perfection. It is evidence of listening, changing, following...him.

He said "my words are life". His words. In other words,"apply his words". Love, patience, kindness, mercy, forgiveness, etc. This leads to life. Hear his voice and apply. Have a conscience. Be a human being. Perfect? No. Changed? Yes. How much? It's different for all.Mine is between He and I. Yours would be between you and him. His relationship to each individual is unique.

Finally I quote this from Christ.

Jesus-"The sheep hear my voice. (Sheep is not a derogatory reference. He is given the same name in "the lamb of God. It means to follow.)

Jesus-"My words are life"

How can a man be saved?(he was asked)
"Be born again"
"Come to God as a little child"
-Little children trust adults to help them, provide for them, they trust them, they love more innocently and childlike. We are told to do the same to God. We approach him like a child approaches Daddy. We listen. We mess up. Our conscience is spoken to. We change over time. We hear him. Some listen better than others, but all are His and serve different roles in reality and eternity. I am the stubborn child who works hard to change but has to fight to do so. Nevertheless, I am 100 times better than I once was. A change happened. Not perfection. Simply his presence changes anyone

Yet more fiction and purely personal feelings that cannot in any way be verified or substantiated.

The bible is the claim, there is no evidence to support said claim and what evidence there is only says some itinerant Jew was causing trouble for the Romans and he was executed.

Almost all historians agree he did exist. The claims are that he had the power over life and death. 0% would be a vastly incorrect answer by any mathematical or statistical standard. You have simply made up a number that sounds good to you. How did life begin?
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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10/9/2015 10:54:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Dhardage-"It's all a pretty story and the Golden Rule is an excellent personal philosophy but none of that proves anything since there's no independent corroboration of any of it."

Nor is it meant to be. "It is impossible to please God without faith."
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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10/9/2015 11:24:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 10:42:10 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 9:20:29 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/7/2015 11:45:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
A sermon given by Pastor Richard Dawkins on the religion's beliefs, concepts, and proof of their faith.

http://youtu.be...

Atheism is a belief in factual evidence but not a religeon. Athiests don't pray to or worship anything. We simply look at things rationally and understand that all evidence points to a naturally created universe without intervention from a creator.

Okay. How did that happen?

The big bang
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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10/10/2015 6:26:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 9:02:22 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 7:14:42 PM, RuvDraba wrote:

Let's agree that multiple agitators for a Hellenised Judaic reform movement walked the earth, that the movement failed in its birthplace, and that some agitators were persecuted and killed.

Now you need to demonstrate that one of them was worthy of worship as a god.

Bear in mind that miracles and marvels -- even if they occurred -- might be proof of magic; but magic is not moral authority, and is not the right to be worshiped.

So where is the god in the Judaic reform movement?

Okay. Let's say he 100% existed as a person, which historians believe he did.
Let's say that among the many Hellenised Judaistic reform movements in various Judaean cities at the time, one had a leader, whose name might have been Yeshua ben Yosef, on whose hagiography your faith is founded.

However, let us not say that the hagiography of any ancient figure of that period can be trusted not to have been fabricated or embellished, because they can't.

Now, please proceed.