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Mhykiel
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10/8/2015 2:33:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

No. I was when i found out about this website. But now I am a jaded troll.
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/8/2015 2:41:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:33:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

No. I was when i found out about this website. But now I am a jaded troll.

I feel like that's where most people are. I grew up in a church that emphasized hard hitting theology. It was -relatively- progressive (in that it was more progressive than most PCA presbyterian churches), but very "intellectually" oriented.

It was a church filled with doctors, lawyers, etc., basically. That's what I'm used too. Head minister had a Ph.D., and like four other degrees.

I just don't have a lot of hope for something like that on this site, but I really do want to see if anyone is interested.
Tsar of DDO
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,648
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10/8/2015 2:43:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

We know for a fact you're not interested based on your posts in this forum. This thread is most likely yet another prelude to arrogant egotistic trolling.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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10/8/2015 2:46:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:44:19 AM, YYW wrote:
Any takers?

I am interested in hearing what you have to say and asking questions. I don't have the background knowledge to do much more than that. But I do have questions I'd love to hear your responses to.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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10/8/2015 2:53:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

If you're looking for someone to argue against Calvinism I'd be in for that.
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/8/2015 2:57:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:46:38 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:44:19 AM, YYW wrote:
Any takers?

I am interested in hearing what you have to say and asking questions. I don't have the background knowledge to do much more than that. But I do have questions I'd love to hear your responses to.

Ask away
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/8/2015 2:58:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:53:09 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

If you're looking for someone to argue against Calvinism I'd be in for that.

I'm not really a Calvinist, but Calvinism is very interesting to me.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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10/8/2015 2:59:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:57:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:46:38 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:44:19 AM, YYW wrote:
Any takers?

I am interested in hearing what you have to say and asking questions. I don't have the background knowledge to do much more than that. But I do have questions I'd love to hear your responses to.

Ask away

Why do you believe what you believe, from a Theological standpoint? Why Theism? Why Christianity? Why Presbyterianism?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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10/8/2015 3:01:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:58:08 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:53:09 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

If you're looking for someone to argue against Calvinism I'd be in for that.

I'm not really a Calvinist, but Calvinism is very interesting to me.

Really? The whole predestination thing of Calvanism is really rather self-condemning.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/8/2015 3:02:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:41:32 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:33:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

No. I was when i found out about this website. But now I am a jaded troll.

I feel like that's where most people are. I grew up in a church that emphasized hard hitting theology. It was -relatively- progressive (in that it was more progressive than most PCA presbyterian churches), but very "intellectually" oriented.

It was a church filled with doctors, lawyers, etc., basically. That's what I'm used too. Head minister had a Ph.D., and like four other degrees.

I just don't have a lot of hope for something like that on this site, but I really do want to see if anyone is interested.

My church is similar the Pastor is more scholarly. HE is constantly bringing up the Hebrew and the Greek, and get's really excited about archaeological stuff.

I am interested in some intellectual stuff. i even hope that I posted some topics that have encouraged that kind of discussion. I would like to see more inter faith discussions and I wish more topics were debated beginning with just accepting God exists.

What would people think of me if I went to a comic book forum and every time two people were debating who would win in a match between deadpool and superman I would aggressively interrupt and say Neither of them exists? I would kicked for trolling.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/8/2015 3:05:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:58:08 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:53:09 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

If you're looking for someone to argue against Calvinism I'd be in for that.

I'm not really a Calvinist, but Calvinism is very interesting to me.

Begin a discussion about it. What do you find interesting about Calvinism?

Personally I think it was seduced by gnostic writings and erroneously concluded flesh, women, and emotions were innately evil.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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10/8/2015 3:05:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:02:51 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

I am interested in some intellectual stuff. i even hope that I posted some topics that have encouraged that kind of discussion. I would like to see more inter faith discussions and I wish more topics were debated beginning with just accepting God exists.

The problem is that atheists will normally just jump into those threads and completely derail it, or we end up with BOG, MCB posting so much that the thread gets completely derailed...
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/8/2015 3:05:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:59:30 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:57:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:46:38 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:44:19 AM, YYW wrote:
Any takers?

I am interested in hearing what you have to say and asking questions. I don't have the background knowledge to do much more than that. But I do have questions I'd love to hear your responses to.

Ask away

Why do you believe what you believe, from a Theological standpoint? Why Theism? Why Christianity? Why Presbyterianism?

Specifically, it's protestant Christianity, which is unique, and I believe the only intellectually reasonably form of faith.

Protestantism begins with grace by faith, and faith alone.

There is no way to know God other than faith, because of the divergence between the physical and the metaphysical.

Faith that claims to be "grounded" in "reason" (where reason entails something more than normative construction of meaning from subjective experience) is specious.

But as to why Presbyterianism?

It is pure, but not removed from this world. Or said another way, it is theologically consistent, but not aloof from the realities of mankind (as so much theology tends to be).

The German Confessional Church is certainly acceptable too, even though there are some differences between Presbyterianism and it.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/8/2015 3:06:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:02:51 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:41:32 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:33:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

No. I was when i found out about this website. But now I am a jaded troll.

I feel like that's where most people are. I grew up in a church that emphasized hard hitting theology. It was -relatively- progressive (in that it was more progressive than most PCA presbyterian churches), but very "intellectually" oriented.

It was a church filled with doctors, lawyers, etc., basically. That's what I'm used too. Head minister had a Ph.D., and like four other degrees.

I just don't have a lot of hope for something like that on this site, but I really do want to see if anyone is interested.

My church is similar the Pastor is more scholarly. HE is constantly bringing up the Hebrew and the Greek, and get's really excited about archaeological stuff.

I am interested in some intellectual stuff. i even hope that I posted some topics that have encouraged that kind of discussion. I would like to see more inter faith discussions and I wish more topics were debated beginning with just accepting God exists.

What would people think of me if I went to a comic book forum and every time two people were debating who would win in a match between deadpool and superman I would aggressively interrupt and say Neither of them exists? I would kicked for trolling.

Right on.

What denomination?
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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10/8/2015 3:07:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:05:43 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:59:30 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:57:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:46:38 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:44:19 AM, YYW wrote:
Any takers?

I am interested in hearing what you have to say and asking questions. I don't have the background knowledge to do much more than that. But I do have questions I'd love to hear your responses to.

Ask away

Why do you believe what you believe, from a Theological standpoint? Why Theism? Why Christianity? Why Presbyterianism?

Specifically, it's protestant Christianity, which is unique, and I believe the only intellectually reasonably form of faith.

Protestantism begins with grace by faith, and faith alone.

There is no way to know God other than faith, because of the divergence between the physical and the metaphysical.

Faith that claims to be "grounded" in "reason" (where reason entails something more than normative construction of meaning from subjective experience) is specious.

So, it is impossible for me to have grace without faith? Does this also imply that I cannot have salvation after death unless I believe?

But as to why Presbyterianism?

It is pure, but not removed from this world. Or said another way, it is theologically consistent, but not aloof from the realities of mankind (as so much theology tends to be).

Can you go a bit more into this?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/8/2015 3:12:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:06:38 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:02:51 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:41:32 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:33:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

No. I was when i found out about this website. But now I am a jaded troll.

I feel like that's where most people are. I grew up in a church that emphasized hard hitting theology. It was -relatively- progressive (in that it was more progressive than most PCA presbyterian churches), but very "intellectually" oriented.

It was a church filled with doctors, lawyers, etc., basically. That's what I'm used too. Head minister had a Ph.D., and like four other degrees.

I just don't have a lot of hope for something like that on this site, but I really do want to see if anyone is interested.

My church is similar the Pastor is more scholarly. HE is constantly bringing up the Hebrew and the Greek, and get's really excited about archaeological stuff.

I am interested in some intellectual stuff. i even hope that I posted some topics that have encouraged that kind of discussion. I would like to see more inter faith discussions and I wish more topics were debated beginning with just accepting God exists.

What would people think of me if I went to a comic book forum and every time two people were debating who would win in a match between deadpool and superman I would aggressively interrupt and say Neither of them exists? I would kicked for trolling.

Right on.

What denomination?

non-denominational.

1 Corinthians 1:10-17

10 I appeal to you, brothers,[a] by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.

12 What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ."

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.

16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,135
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10/8/2015 3:13:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:02:51 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:41:32 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:33:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

No. I was when i found out about this website. But now I am a jaded troll.

I feel like that's where most people are. I grew up in a church that emphasized hard hitting theology. It was -relatively- progressive (in that it was more progressive than most PCA presbyterian churches), but very "intellectually" oriented.

It was a church filled with doctors, lawyers, etc., basically. That's what I'm used too. Head minister had a Ph.D., and like four other degrees.

I just don't have a lot of hope for something like that on this site, but I really do want to see if anyone is interested.

My church is similar the Pastor is more scholarly. HE is constantly bringing up the Hebrew and the Greek, and get's really excited about archaeological stuff.

I am interested in some intellectual stuff. i even hope that I posted some topics that have encouraged that kind of discussion. I would like to see more inter faith discussions and I wish more topics were debated beginning with just accepting God exists.

What would people think of me if I went to a comic book forum and every time two people were debating who would win in a match between deadpool and superman I would aggressively interrupt and say Neither of them exists? I would kicked for trolling.

Great analogy. ;-)

..but seriously, you could add the [Truce] to your thread title. I think that has been pretty well respected. You could add the assumption that God exists to the OP. In the event you get a douche ignoring one or both of these attempts at civil conversation - ignore them. I never understand why people feel the need to feed the trolls the attention they so desperately desire.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/8/2015 3:16:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:07:54 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:43 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:59:30 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:57:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:46:38 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:44:19 AM, YYW wrote:
Any takers?

I am interested in hearing what you have to say and asking questions. I don't have the background knowledge to do much more than that. But I do have questions I'd love to hear your responses to.

Ask away

Why do you believe what you believe, from a Theological standpoint? Why Theism? Why Christianity? Why Presbyterianism?

Specifically, it's protestant Christianity, which is unique, and I believe the only intellectually reasonably form of faith.

Protestantism begins with grace by faith, and faith alone.

There is no way to know God other than faith, because of the divergence between the physical and the metaphysical.

Faith that claims to be "grounded" in "reason" (where reason entails something more than normative construction of meaning from subjective experience) is specious.

So, it is impossible for me to have grace without faith? Does this also imply that I cannot have salvation after death unless I believe?

Well, if you don't have faith, then salvation isn't really something that you would be concerned about.

But to have faith is simply "to believe."

But as to why Presbyterianism?

It is pure, but not removed from this world. Or said another way, it is theologically consistent, but not aloof from the realities of mankind (as so much theology tends to be).

Can you go a bit more into this?

Sure. Presbyterianism is liberal, and has been a liberal sect of Christianity from its conception in Scotland. It's a church with a democratic and egalitarian structure, grounded scripture before all else, rather than traditions, for example, of the Catholic church.

Presbyterians (USA) were among the first to accept female ministers, have embraced people for decades now regardless of their sexual orientation, and are more ascetic, cerebral, and nonjudgmental, than any "hellfire and damnation" types, and almost all other protestant sects.

The closest analog is Jesuit Catholicism, but again, Presbyterians are not Catholics. Their priorities are meeting people where they are, and meeting all people where they are, because that is the church's must --at the very core of any church's proper purpose-- do before anything else. It has to meet people where they are.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/8/2015 3:17:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:12:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:06:38 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:02:51 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:41:32 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:33:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

No. I was when i found out about this website. But now I am a jaded troll.

I feel like that's where most people are. I grew up in a church that emphasized hard hitting theology. It was -relatively- progressive (in that it was more progressive than most PCA presbyterian churches), but very "intellectually" oriented.

It was a church filled with doctors, lawyers, etc., basically. That's what I'm used too. Head minister had a Ph.D., and like four other degrees.

I just don't have a lot of hope for something like that on this site, but I really do want to see if anyone is interested.

My church is similar the Pastor is more scholarly. HE is constantly bringing up the Hebrew and the Greek, and get's really excited about archaeological stuff.

I am interested in some intellectual stuff. i even hope that I posted some topics that have encouraged that kind of discussion. I would like to see more inter faith discussions and I wish more topics were debated beginning with just accepting God exists.

What would people think of me if I went to a comic book forum and every time two people were debating who would win in a match between deadpool and superman I would aggressively interrupt and say Neither of them exists? I would kicked for trolling.

Right on.

What denomination?

non-denominational.

Cool

1 Corinthians 1:10-17

10 I appeal to you, brothers,[a] by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.

12 What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ."

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.

16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Hard to argue...
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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10/8/2015 3:18:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:16:14 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:07:54 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:43 AM, YYW wrote:
Protestantism begins with grace by faith, and faith alone.

There is no way to know God other than faith, because of the divergence between the physical and the metaphysical.

Faith that claims to be "grounded" in "reason" (where reason entails something more than normative construction of meaning from subjective experience) is specious.

So, it is impossible for me to have grace without faith? Does this also imply that I cannot have salvation after death unless I believe?

Well, if you don't have faith, then salvation isn't really something that you would be concerned about.

To believe in what? God? The Christian God? The Protestant Christian God?

And, though I may not have faith, I would like to think that if God does exist, I won't be barred entry into heaven simply for failing to have faith.

Sure. Presbyterianism is liberal, and has been a liberal sect of Christianity from its conception in Scotland. It's a church with a democratic and egalitarian structure, grounded scripture before all else, rather than traditions, for example, of the Catholic church.

Presbyterians (USA) were among the first to accept female ministers, have embraced people for decades now regardless of their sexual orientation, and are more ascetic, cerebral, and nonjudgmental, than any "hellfire and damnation" types, and almost all other protestant sects.

Sounds nice.

The closest analog is Jesuit Catholicism, but again, Presbyterians are not Catholics. Their priorities are meeting people where they are, and meeting all people where they are, because that is the church's must --at the very core of any church's proper purpose-- do before anything else. It has to meet people where they are.

Meaning?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/8/2015 3:19:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:13:31 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:02:51 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:41:32 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:33:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

No. I was when i found out about this website. But now I am a jaded troll.

I feel like that's where most people are. I grew up in a church that emphasized hard hitting theology. It was -relatively- progressive (in that it was more progressive than most PCA presbyterian churches), but very "intellectually" oriented.

It was a church filled with doctors, lawyers, etc., basically. That's what I'm used too. Head minister had a Ph.D., and like four other degrees.

I just don't have a lot of hope for something like that on this site, but I really do want to see if anyone is interested.

My church is similar the Pastor is more scholarly. HE is constantly bringing up the Hebrew and the Greek, and get's really excited about archaeological stuff.

I am interested in some intellectual stuff. i even hope that I posted some topics that have encouraged that kind of discussion. I would like to see more inter faith discussions and I wish more topics were debated beginning with just accepting God exists.

What would people think of me if I went to a comic book forum and every time two people were debating who would win in a match between deadpool and superman I would aggressively interrupt and say Neither of them exists? I would kicked for trolling.

Great analogy. ;-)

..but seriously, you could add the [Truce] to your thread title. I think that has been pretty well respected. You could add the assumption that God exists to the OP. In the event you get a douche ignoring one or both of these attempts at civil conversation - ignore them. I never understand why people feel the need to feed the trolls the attention they so desperately desire.

I read the Truce thread.. it is an interesting suggestion.

More than anything, I don't because I am a creature of habit. And my current habit is to ignore obvious trolls and post illustrative and thought provoking allusions without engaging too much of my time and energy with Atheist.

I admit I count Debate.org as decadent habit.

But I'm not opposed to deeper exchanges that end in polite "agree to disagree"
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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10/8/2015 3:23:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:18:54 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:16:14 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:07:54 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:43 AM, YYW wrote:
Protestantism begins with grace by faith, and faith alone.

There is no way to know God other than faith, because of the divergence between the physical and the metaphysical.

Faith that claims to be "grounded" in "reason" (where reason entails something more than normative construction of meaning from subjective experience) is specious.

So, it is impossible for me to have grace without faith? Does this also imply that I cannot have salvation after death unless I believe?

Well, if you don't have faith, then salvation isn't really something that you would be concerned about.

To believe in what? God? The Christian God? The Protestant Christian God?

And, though I may not have faith, I would like to think that if God does exist, I won't be barred entry into heaven simply for failing to have faith.

That's not really how salvation works. But, there is a difference between "believing in God" and "living the archetypal Christian lifestyle."

Most people conflate the two; but they're not the same. The former is a question of subjective belief. The latter is a question of culture.

Sure. Presbyterianism is liberal, and has been a liberal sect of Christianity from its conception in Scotland. It's a church with a democratic and egalitarian structure, grounded scripture before all else, rather than traditions, for example, of the Catholic church.

Presbyterians (USA) were among the first to accept female ministers, have embraced people for decades now regardless of their sexual orientation, and are more ascetic, cerebral, and nonjudgmental, than any "hellfire and damnation" types, and almost all other protestant sects.

Sounds nice.

It is a church that knows what its purpose is, which is nice. So many Christians lose sight of what matters, and get caught up in things that don't.

That's one reason I like Pope Francis, as an influential figure of Christendom, because even though he is Catholic, obviously, he has a very clear --and correct-- idea of what the church ought to be, and what it must do.

The closest analog is Jesuit Catholicism, but again, Presbyterians are not Catholics. Their priorities are meeting people where they are, and meeting all people where they are, because that is the church's must --at the very core of any church's proper purpose-- do before anything else. It has to meet people where they are.

Meaning?

After re-reading that, I realize it's pretty abstract. Practically, it means that no gay person would ever be condemned in the USA Presbyterian Church. Gay marriage is sanctioned (the issue of it actually broke the Presbyterian church into PCA --conservative-- and USA --liberal-- sects).

It means that you can be a person who has lived any kind of life before you walked into the door, and no matter where you are in life or what you've done, or not done, there is a place for you there.
Tsar of DDO
Paradox_7
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10/8/2015 3:24:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 2:29:54 AM, YYW wrote:
Is anyone here genuinely interested in discussing hard-hitting theology? (E.g. Calvin)

Yes.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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10/8/2015 3:31:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:23:45 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:18:54 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:16:14 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:07:54 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:05:43 AM, YYW wrote:
Protestantism begins with grace by faith, and faith alone.

There is no way to know God other than faith, because of the divergence between the physical and the metaphysical.

Faith that claims to be "grounded" in "reason" (where reason entails something more than normative construction of meaning from subjective experience) is specious.

So, it is impossible for me to have grace without faith? Does this also imply that I cannot have salvation after death unless I believe?

Well, if you don't have faith, then salvation isn't really something that you would be concerned about.

To believe in what? God? The Christian God? The Protestant Christian God?

And, though I may not have faith, I would like to think that if God does exist, I won't be barred entry into heaven simply for failing to have faith.

That's not really how salvation works.

How does it work?

But, there is a difference between "believing in God" and "living the archetypal Christian lifestyle."

How so? Why does it matter?

Sure. Presbyterianism is liberal, and has been a liberal sect of Christianity from its conception in Scotland. It's a church with a democratic and egalitarian structure, grounded scripture before all else, rather than traditions, for example, of the Catholic church.

Presbyterians (USA) were among the first to accept female ministers, have embraced people for decades now regardless of their sexual orientation, and are more ascetic, cerebral, and nonjudgmental, than any "hellfire and damnation" types, and almost all other protestant sects.

Sounds nice.

It is a church that knows what its purpose is, which is nice. So many Christians lose sight of what matters, and get caught up in things that don't.

What does matter? What doesn't?

The closest analog is Jesuit Catholicism, but again, Presbyterians are not Catholics. Their priorities are meeting people where they are, and meeting all people where they are, because that is the church's must --at the very core of any church's proper purpose-- do before anything else. It has to meet people where they are.

Meaning?

It means that you can be a person who has lived any kind of life before you walked into the door, and no matter where you are in life or what you've done, or not done, there is a place for you there.

Okay.
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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YYW
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10/8/2015 3:35:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:31:54 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Okay.

All of your questions in your last post are very good questions. Let me write a more substantive post about it when I have time this weekend.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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10/8/2015 3:37:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:35:33 AM, YYW wrote:
At 10/8/2015 3:31:54 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Okay.

All of your questions in your last post are very good questions. Let me write a more substantive post about it when I have time this weekend.

Okay...Link me when it's posted, Tiger...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Yonko
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10/8/2015 3:37:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/8/2015 3:23:45 AM, YYW wrote:

According to your religious beliefs, given that I am a devout Muslim, what will happen to me after I die?