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Is it possible to be an Atheist and a Theist?

twocupcakes
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10/11/2015 5:06:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you look at religion objectively, I think that there is no logical reason to think that one religion is more probable than others, or to think that any religion is true. Yet, I think that religion satisfies many emotional needs of humans (like making people feel special, safe, or fulfilling a social need being part of a group).

I was wondering if anyone, when thinking about it logically, agrees that there is no evidence of God, yet is part of a religion? Or, if there is anyone that identifies as an Atheist, that maybe says prayers every once in a while or goes to church?

I think that like a gambler that objectively agrees that the house has the best odds, yet feels they are destined to win, once they sit down at a table at a casino, it is possibe to hold contradictory views on God, one view appeals to logic, the other appeals to emotions.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/11/2015 5:06:49 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you look at religion objectively, I think that there is no logical reason to think that one religion is more probable than others, or to think that any religion is true. Yet, I think that religion satisfies many emotional needs of humans (like making people feel special, safe, or fulfilling a social need being part of a group).

I was wondering if anyone, when thinking about it logically, agrees that there is no evidence of God, yet is part of a religion? Or, if there is anyone that identifies as an Atheist, that maybe says prayers every once in a while or goes to church?

I think that like a gambler that objectively agrees that the house has the best odds, yet feels they are destined to win, once they sit down at a table at a casino, it is possibe to hold contradictory views on God, one view appeals to logic, the other appeals to emotions.

Well they say that every Christian and Muslim is an atheist with respect to every other god bar one. An Atheist just takes that approach to its logical conclusion.

There are probably many token theists who subscribe to Pascal's Wager. I've known a few myself who don't really believe but go through the motions because of their upbringing and wishful thinking really. They wouldn't label themselves as atheists though.

Also, I don't doubt that there are many in the clergy who don't really believe.

http://www.independent.co.uk...

As a prerequisite for the job of being a Church of England priest, it would seem not unreasonable to expect a belief in God to be fairly essential.

But this is not the case, according to a poll of Anglican clergy which found that as many as 16 per cent are unclear about God and two per cent think it is no more than a human construct.


It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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10/13/2015 2:12:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Lots of wishful thinking here. Also lots of arrogance, assuming that just because people disagree with you that they are automatically wrong. Typical, unfortunately.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,088
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10/13/2015 3:00:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

Understanding how the gods of religion can be falsified is not a position of ignorance. However, an individual claiming a version of a theistic god is true must either be ignorant of these facts or willfully dishonest about it.

Additionally, a deistic god and a theistic god are not the same. So, please, let's not digress into arguments conflating the two. (e.g. finetuning, life from life, etc.)

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/13/2015 5:11:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 3:00:47 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

Understanding how the gods of religion can be falsified is not a position of ignorance. However, an individual claiming a version of a theistic god is true must either be ignorant of these facts or willfully dishonest about it.

Additionally, a deistic god and a theistic god are not the same. So, please, let's not digress into arguments conflating the two. (e.g. finetuning, life from life, etc.)

God cannot be falsified. If it can be falsified, it isn't God. You cannot disprove The Truest Reality, this is an absurdity. Even attempting to do so is foolish. If you understand what this means, you'll also realize that this is no fallacy, though it appears to be so to those who have a faulty understanding of theology.

I'm not talking about these intellectualizations of God, I'm talking about what the concept represents.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/13/2015 5:12:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 2:12:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Lots of wishful thinking here. Also lots of arrogance, assuming that just because people disagree with you that they are automatically wrong. Typical, unfortunately.

Just because people disagree with me?

Maybe it seems like that to you, but the fact of the matter is, I'm right about this and you are wrong.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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10/13/2015 5:19:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 5:12:17 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 2:12:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Lots of wishful thinking here. Also lots of arrogance, assuming that just because people disagree with you that they are automatically wrong. Typical, unfortunately.

Just because people disagree with me?

Maybe it seems like that to you, but the fact of the matter is, I'm right about this and you are wrong.

You can in no way prove any of your assertions, just claim to be an authority on theology and expect everyone to bow before your awesome intellect. Unfortunately you authority is in the study of imaginary beings and has no value in demonstrating the validity of your assertions. Yes, you claim anyone who disagrees with you is either stupid or has 'baggage' that prevents them from understanding and agreeing with you. I've seen it not just with myself but others. If you can give sufficient evidence, evidence that would pass muster in a court of law, that your assertions are valid then you have a case. Until you do your assertions are summarily dismissed for lack of evidence.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,088
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10/13/2015 6:50:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 5:11:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 3:00:47 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

Understanding how the gods of religion can be falsified is not a position of ignorance. However, an individual claiming a version of a theistic god is true must either be ignorant of these facts or willfully dishonest about it.

Additionally, a deistic god and a theistic god are not the same. So, please, let's not digress into arguments conflating the two. (e.g. finetuning, life from life, etc.)

God cannot be falsified.

Sure, theistic gods most certainly can be falsified. When a being is said to have interacted with humanity/nature (often in a spectacular way) then that gives us the ability to predict what evidence there should be. In this. In this case, absense of evidence = evidence of absense.

it can be falsified, it isn't God. You cannot disprove The Truest Reality, this is an absurdity. Even attempting to do so is foolish. If you understand what this means, you'll also realize that this is no fallacy, though it appears to be so to those who have a faulty understanding of theology.

You're not talking theology, you're talking deism. I warned against this in my original reply. Basically, the more you can be specific with how your god interacts with nature/humanity the more evidence we have reason to expect. If the evidence exists, then no faith is required and your belief is really more of an acceptance. That would be good news to theists. However, if no evidence exists where we have good reason to expect it, then it can only be belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. Of course, if you don't believe your god interacts with humanity/nature then there is no reasonable expectation of evidence and that god cannot be falsified. Additionally, if your god cannot be falsified, then there is no reason to accept the existence of such a being, much less, be dogmatic about it.

So, which god do you believe in?

I'm not talking about these intellectualizations of God, I'm talking about what the concept represents.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/13/2015 10:23:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 5:19:07 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:12:17 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 2:12:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Lots of wishful thinking here. Also lots of arrogance, assuming that just because people disagree with you that they are automatically wrong. Typical, unfortunately.

Just because people disagree with me?

Maybe it seems like that to you, but the fact of the matter is, I'm right about this and you are wrong.

You can in no way prove any of your assertions, just claim to be an authority on theology and expect everyone to bow before your awesome intellect. Unfortunately you authority is in the study of imaginary beings and has no value in demonstrating the validity of your assertions. Yes, you claim anyone who disagrees with you is either stupid or has 'baggage' that prevents them from understanding and agreeing with you. I've seen it not just with myself but others. If you can give sufficient evidence, evidence that would pass muster in a court of law, that your assertions are valid then you have a case. Until you do your assertions are summarily dismissed for lack of evidence.

The only assertion I am making is that God is The Greatest.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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10/13/2015 10:32:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

Wrong.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Anyone can make a ridiculous claim (that an atheist who has no belief in gods is close to God). D'oh. Substantiating it is another thing entirely.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/13/2015 10:33:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 6:50:59 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:11:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 3:00:47 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

Understanding how the gods of religion can be falsified is not a position of ignorance. However, an individual claiming a version of a theistic god is true must either be ignorant of these facts or willfully dishonest about it.

Additionally, a deistic god and a theistic god are not the same. So, please, let's not digress into arguments conflating the two. (e.g. finetuning, life from life, etc.)

God cannot be falsified.

Sure, theistic gods most certainly can be falsified. When a being is said to have interacted with humanity/nature (often in a spectacular way) then that gives us the ability to predict what evidence there should be. In this. In this case, absense of evidence = evidence of absense.


When you start to take into account things like anthropology, you begin to realize that there are many different ways of describing similar phenomena. Words have changed, but The Word is eternal.

it can be falsified, it isn't God. You cannot disprove The Truest Reality, this is an absurdity. Even attempting to do so is foolish. If you understand what this means, you'll also realize that this is no fallacy, though it appears to be so to those who have a faulty understanding of theology.

You're not talking theology, you're talking deism. I warned against this in my original reply. Basically, the more you can be specific with how your god interacts with nature/humanity the more evidence we have reason to expect. If the evidence exists, then no faith is required and your belief is really more of an acceptance. That would be good news to theists. However, if no evidence exists where we have good reason to expect it, then it can only be belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. Of course, if you don't believe your god interacts with humanity/nature then there is no reasonable expectation of evidence and that god cannot be falsified. Additionally, if your god cannot be falsified, then there is no reason to accept the existence of such a being, much less, be dogmatic about it.

So, which god do you believe in?

God represents the Highest Reality. Your experience represents a relativistic reality. Your relativistic reality is your personal relationship with God. Everything in your experience springs from relationship to God. God is closer than your breath.

The reason why you think these things is because you don't have the theologically correct understanding of the concept. If you did, you'd realize that it is ridiculous to deny the existence of God.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/13/2015 10:35:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 10:32:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

Wrong.

This doesn't prove anything, and I'm fairly certain you are committing some type of logical fallacy with this line of offense.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Anyone can make a ridiculous claim (that an atheist who has no belief in gods is close to God). D'oh. Substantiating it is another thing entirely.

This is my testimony of atheist ignorance of the concept.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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10/13/2015 10:43:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 10:35:56 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:32:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

Wrong.

This doesn't prove anything, and I'm fairly certain you are committing some type of logical fallacy with this line of offense.

It proves you wrong when you assert that "atheists don't understand theology". They understand it better than most Christians.

What logical fallacy would that be, relying on actual research rather than making bare assertions? Lol.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Anyone can make a ridiculous claim (that an atheist who has no belief in gods is close to God). D'oh. Substantiating it is another thing entirely.

This is my testimony of atheist ignorance of the concept.

This is my testimony of theists making claims which they can never substantiate.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,088
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10/13/2015 11:33:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 10:33:40 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 6:50:59 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:11:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 3:00:47 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

Understanding how the gods of religion can be falsified is not a position of ignorance. However, an individual claiming a version of a theistic god is true must either be ignorant of these facts or willfully dishonest about it.

Additionally, a deistic god and a theistic god are not the same. So, please, let's not digress into arguments conflating the two. (e.g. finetuning, life from life, etc.)

God cannot be falsified.

Sure, theistic gods most certainly can be falsified. When a being is said to have interacted with humanity/nature (often in a spectacular way) then that gives us the ability to predict what evidence there should be. In this. In this case, absense of evidence = evidence of absense.


When you start to take into account things like anthropology, you begin to realize that there are many different ways of describing similar phenomena. Words have changed, but The Word is eternal.

That is not a defense - that is a vague suggestion of a defense.

it can be falsified, it isn't God. You cannot disprove The Truest Reality, this is an absurdity. Even attempting to do so is foolish. If you understand what this means, you'll also realize that this is no fallacy, though it appears to be so to those who have a faulty understanding of theology.

You're not talking theology, you're talking deism. I warned against this in my original reply. Basically, the more you can be specific with how your god interacts with nature/humanity the more evidence we have reason to expect. If the evidence exists, then no faith is required and your belief is really more of an acceptance. That would be good news to theists. However, if no evidence exists where we have good reason to expect it, then it can only be belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. Of course, if you don't believe your god interacts with humanity/nature then there is no reasonable expectation of evidence and that god cannot be falsified. Additionally, if your god cannot be falsified, then there is no reason to accept the existence of such a being, much less, be dogmatic about it.

So, which god do you believe in?

God represents the Highest Reality.

That's it, eh? How is the "highest reality" different from a deistic god?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
UniversalTheologian
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10/14/2015 1:02:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 10:43:36 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:35:56 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:32:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

Wrong.

This doesn't prove anything, and I'm fairly certain you are committing some type of logical fallacy with this line of offense.

It proves you wrong when you assert that "atheists don't understand theology". They understand it better than most Christians.

What logical fallacy would that be, relying on actual research rather than making bare assertions? Lol.

You know, cutting through the BS, lets get something straight.

Religious knowledge =/= Theology

Besides that, statistics involving groups of people has very little to do with anything. People are born into the label, "Christian". The label loses its meaning after that point.

In other words, you trying to counter my claim that the position of atheism is one of theological ignorance by throwing statistics at me is practically irrelevant.

To be frank, I don't need to prove the existence of a Supreme and Ultimate Reality. If you knowingly deny this, you are an idiot. However, I give atheists a great deal more credit by calling them ignorant rather than stupid. It is evident from the things I hear most of them say that they don't know what they are talking about, so by calling them ignorant, I am actually defending them.

As it is written, "My people perish for a lack of knowledge".
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
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10/14/2015 1:13:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 10:23:51 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:19:07 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:12:17 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 2:12:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Lots of wishful thinking here. Also lots of arrogance, assuming that just because people disagree with you that they are automatically wrong. Typical, unfortunately.

Just because people disagree with me?

Maybe it seems like that to you, but the fact of the matter is, I'm right about this and you are wrong.

You can in no way prove any of your assertions, just claim to be an authority on theology and expect everyone to bow before your awesome intellect. Unfortunately you authority is in the study of imaginary beings and has no value in demonstrating the validity of your assertions. Yes, you claim anyone who disagrees with you is either stupid or has 'baggage' that prevents them from understanding and agreeing with you. I've seen it not just with myself but others. If you can give sufficient evidence, evidence that would pass muster in a court of law, that your assertions are valid then you have a case. Until you do your assertions are summarily dismissed for lack of evidence.

The only assertion I am making is that God is The Greatest.

Which assumes and implies that there is some supernatural deity you call 'God'. The implicit premise is not evidenced and is thus subject to summary rejection as is the derived claim of the greatness of said entity.
UniversalTheologian
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10/14/2015 1:38:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:33:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:33:40 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 6:50:59 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:11:31 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 3:00:47 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

Understanding how the gods of religion can be falsified is not a position of ignorance. However, an individual claiming a version of a theistic god is true must either be ignorant of these facts or willfully dishonest about it.

Additionally, a deistic god and a theistic god are not the same. So, please, let's not digress into arguments conflating the two. (e.g. finetuning, life from life, etc.)

God cannot be falsified.

Sure, theistic gods most certainly can be falsified. When a being is said to have interacted with humanity/nature (often in a spectacular way) then that gives us the ability to predict what evidence there should be. In this. In this case, absense of evidence = evidence of absense.


When you start to take into account things like anthropology, you begin to realize that there are many different ways of describing similar phenomena. Words have changed, but The Word is eternal.

That is not a defense - that is a vague suggestion of a defense.

What defense? You think that the hand of God is a limb? You think that the eye of God is a sense organ? Certainly with the right perspective, you can see how these are poetic ways of describing things that actually happen.

All that aside though, it seems to me like these hangups are preventing you from actually understanding the intent of scripture, which I'd imagine based on your words that you have all wrong.

Certainly, you can contradict me on this, but it would be better if you humored me by accepting my authority on this subject.


it can be falsified, it isn't God. You cannot disprove The Truest Reality, this is an absurdity. Even attempting to do so is foolish. If you understand what this means, you'll also realize that this is no fallacy, though it appears to be so to those who have a faulty understanding of theology.

You're not talking theology, you're talking deism. I warned against this in my original reply. Basically, the more you can be specific with how your god interacts with nature/humanity the more evidence we have reason to expect. If the evidence exists, then no faith is required and your belief is really more of an acceptance. That would be good news to theists. However, if no evidence exists where we have good reason to expect it, then it can only be belief in spite of the evidence to the contrary. Of course, if you don't believe your god interacts with humanity/nature then there is no reasonable expectation of evidence and that god cannot be falsified. Additionally, if your god cannot be falsified, then there is no reason to accept the existence of such a being, much less, be dogmatic about it.

So, which god do you believe in?

God represents the Highest Reality.

That's it, eh? How is the "highest reality" different from a deistic god?

I don't get the impression that you understand what that means to begin with, so it would be a mistake for me to close your mind by accepting your observation. That said, God is closer than your breath, than your blood. God permeates through everything. God is not created, but God's spirit moves creation, everything in creation bares witness to God. In creation there are opposites and divisions, but the Ultimate Reality that I speak of has no opposites or divisions.

All of Past, Present, and Future has been determined. God did not create the universe out of loneliness, out of desire, or to increase dominion. God created everything by saying "be", but not with words that came out of a mouth, or words that strike the ears. God shows anger, but it isn't out of emotion. Everything is already finished, all been done, and everything, whether done in the open or done in secret is inscribed for all eternity. This is no big thing for God. The universe was created, and it will be destroyed. God will recreate it again, effortlessly. None of these things are strange to God. God's will is done, and God's ways are unfathomable and incomprehensible. We can come to know God, but God is unknowable. God knows the number of hairs on your head. Every creature was designed by God, and the close examination of anything reveals the marvelous detail that was put into it.

God is The Greatest, and is beyond our conceptualization. Certainly, no description of God can be adequate. How do you describe something fundamentally beyond abstraction through abstraction? How do you describe The Uncreated with created words? How do you describe what is True Beyond Reproach with words that have their existence in relativistic reality? How do you express what fundamentally non-dualistic through discriminatory experience? As germs are to us, God is greater even when compared to us.

I speak of God Most High, The Lord of All Worlds.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/14/2015 1:38:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 1:13:42 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:23:51 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:19:07 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:12:17 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 2:12:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Lots of wishful thinking here. Also lots of arrogance, assuming that just because people disagree with you that they are automatically wrong. Typical, unfortunately.

Just because people disagree with me?

Maybe it seems like that to you, but the fact of the matter is, I'm right about this and you are wrong.

You can in no way prove any of your assertions, just claim to be an authority on theology and expect everyone to bow before your awesome intellect. Unfortunately you authority is in the study of imaginary beings and has no value in demonstrating the validity of your assertions. Yes, you claim anyone who disagrees with you is either stupid or has 'baggage' that prevents them from understanding and agreeing with you. I've seen it not just with myself but others. If you can give sufficient evidence, evidence that would pass muster in a court of law, that your assertions are valid then you have a case. Until you do your assertions are summarily dismissed for lack of evidence.

The only assertion I am making is that God is The Greatest.

Which assumes and implies that there is some supernatural deity you call 'God'. The implicit premise is not evidenced and is thus subject to summary rejection as is the derived claim of the greatness of said entity.

What is The Greatest?
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
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10/14/2015 1:41:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 1:38:42 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:13:42 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:23:51 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:19:07 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 5:12:17 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 2:12:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

I'd go so far to say that there are many atheists who are closer to God than those who claim to be theists. If only they knew!

Lots of wishful thinking here. Also lots of arrogance, assuming that just because people disagree with you that they are automatically wrong. Typical, unfortunately.

Just because people disagree with me?

Maybe it seems like that to you, but the fact of the matter is, I'm right about this and you are wrong.

You can in no way prove any of your assertions, just claim to be an authority on theology and expect everyone to bow before your awesome intellect. Unfortunately you authority is in the study of imaginary beings and has no value in demonstrating the validity of your assertions. Yes, you claim anyone who disagrees with you is either stupid or has 'baggage' that prevents them from understanding and agreeing with you. I've seen it not just with myself but others. If you can give sufficient evidence, evidence that would pass muster in a court of law, that your assertions are valid then you have a case. Until you do your assertions are summarily dismissed for lack of evidence.

The only assertion I am making is that God is The Greatest.

Which assumes and implies that there is some supernatural deity you call 'God'. The implicit premise is not evidenced and is thus subject to summary rejection as is the derived claim of the greatness of said entity.

What is The Greatest?

Be more specific, please? The greatest what? Do you mean Muhammed Ali? You need to ask a specific question to get a specific answer.
UniversalTheologian
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10/14/2015 1:56:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 1:41:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
What is The Greatest?

Be more specific, please? The greatest what? Do you mean Muhammed Ali? You need to ask a specific question to get a specific answer.

I'll give you a hint.

What do you get when you break up "theism"?

The IS

Theism is the study of the "is".

The greatest? What Is?

Look these words up in a dictionary it helps.

What

Is

The

Greatest
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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10/14/2015 2:00:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 1:56:06 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:41:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
What is The Greatest?

Be more specific, please? The greatest what? Do you mean Muhammed Ali? You need to ask a specific question to get a specific answer.


I'll give you a hint.

What do you get when you break up "theism"?

The IS

Theism is the study of the "is".


The greatest? What Is?

Look these words up in a dictionary it helps.

What

Is

The

Greatest

Look in a grade school grammer text. Greatest is an adjective, not a noun. if you wish to have a object to your question, please use the appropriate part of speech. The dictionary will explain that too.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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10/14/2015 2:24:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 1:02:11 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:43:36 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:35:56 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/13/2015 10:32:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/13/2015 1:50:04 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/11/2015 11:58:25 PM, dee-em wrote:
It could be that, like many things, the more you learn about something the more you see its failings if it has them. As they say, the quickest way to turn a theist into an atheist is to make them read their holy book from cover to cover.

If they don't understand what is being said, or they have the lusts of the flesh getting in the way of honest discernment.

I've studied the bible obsessively, start to finish countless times. Am I an atheist? Absolutely not. I am thoroughly convinced that the position of "atheism" comes from not understanding theology. It's a position of ignorance. Almost universally, atheists have an understanding of God that isn't truly in line with theology.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

Wrong.

This doesn't prove anything, and I'm fairly certain you are committing some type of logical fallacy with this line of offense.

It proves you wrong when you assert that "atheists don't understand theology". They understand it better than most Christians.

What logical fallacy would that be, relying on actual research rather than making bare assertions? Lol.

You know, cutting through the BS, lets get something straight.

Religious knowledge =/= Theology

True, but it's an indication and it's the only valid comparison which can be made since you are unlikely to find atheists who have completed specialized training in religious studies, such as at a university, seminary, or school of divinity. Atheists can only get their understanding of God from theists and if there is a failure there it is hardly the atheists fault. I mean you don't really expect an atheist to study a field where the subject is something they have no belief in. It's an absurd proposition.

The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
--- Thomas Paine


And Thomas Paine wasn't even an atheist!

Besides that, statistics involving groups of people has very little to do with anything. People are born into the label, "Christian". The label loses its meaning after that point.

The No True Scotsman fallacy. If someone identifies as a Christian they are a Christian.

In other words, you trying to counter my claim that the position of atheism is one of theological ignorance by throwing statistics at me is practically irrelevant.

Of course it is since you prefer assertions to anything approaching an evidenced position. Atheists don't formally study the concept and nature of God because we have no beliefs in gods. If you choose to call that "theological ignorance" then you are merely expressing a tautology. How could it be any other way? Our job is to criticize the concepts of God put before us by theists and we do a pretty damn good job.

To be frank, I don't need to prove the existence of a Supreme and Ultimate Reality. If you knowingly deny this, you are an idiot.

I knowingly deny it and I am not an idiot. Don't you understand? You are making an assertion, a specific claim. The burden of proof is therefore on you to provide some evidence for what you propose. Instead you shirk the onus you have and seek to have it accepted by default. Sorry, but that's never going to fly.

There is no 'supreme' or 'ultimate' reality. There is just reality. Your claim is an assertion without evidence and can be dismissed without evidence.

However, I give atheists a great deal more credit by calling them ignorant rather than stupid. It is evident from the things I hear most of them say that they don't know what they are talking about, so by calling them ignorant, I am actually defending them.

So magnanimous of you. Lol.

As it is written, "My people perish for a lack of knowledge".

Bare assertions are not knowledge.

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance --- it is the illusion of knowledge."
--- Daniel J. Boorstin
UniversalTheologian
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10/15/2015 1:20:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 2:24:36 PM, dee-em wrote:
There is no 'supreme' or 'ultimate' reality. There is just reality. Your claim is an assertion without evidence and can be dismissed without evidence.

What do you consider to be reality?
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
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10/15/2015 1:36:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 2:00:09 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:56:06 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:41:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
What is The Greatest?

Be more specific, please? The greatest what? Do you mean Muhammed Ali? You need to ask a specific question to get a specific answer.


I'll give you a hint.

What do you get when you break up "theism"?

The IS

Theism is the study of the "is".


The greatest? What Is?

Look these words up in a dictionary it helps.

What

Is

The

Greatest

Look in a grade school grammer text. Greatest is an adjective, not a noun. if you wish to have a object to your question, please use the appropriate part of speech. The dictionary will explain that too.

Sho 'nuff, I can see your confusion. "The Greatest" is a name of God. I will ask you a similar question.

What is the greatest authority?
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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10/15/2015 1:39:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 1:20:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 2:24:36 PM, dee-em wrote:
There is no 'supreme' or 'ultimate' reality. There is just reality. Your claim is an assertion without evidence and can be dismissed without evidence.

What do you consider to be reality?

The same as (nearly) everyone else. Everything which can be perceived to exist or to have existed by our senses or extension of our senses. That is, the universe in its entirety.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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10/15/2015 1:43:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 1:36:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 2:00:09 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:56:06 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:41:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
What is The Greatest?

Be more specific, please? The greatest what? Do you mean Muhammed Ali? You need to ask a specific question to get a specific answer.


I'll give you a hint.

What do you get when you break up "theism"?

The IS

Theism is the study of the "is".


The greatest? What Is?

Look these words up in a dictionary it helps.

What

Is

The

Greatest

Look in a grade school grammer text. Greatest is an adjective, not a noun. if you wish to have a object to your question, please use the appropriate part of speech. The dictionary will explain that too.

Sho 'nuff, I can see your confusion. "The Greatest" is a name of God. I will ask you a similar question.


What is the greatest authority?

Depends. When you're a child that would be your parents. As you get older it becomes your boss, the Government, perhaps your pastor or preacher as God's supposed proxy. As fully matured adult the greatest authority for me is me. I decide what I will and won't do and what consequences I am prepared to face. I cannot abrogate the responsibility for my actions so I also accept full authority to do as I see fit and necessary.

Sho' nuff? Not sure if you're trying to be intentionally insulting or you're just silly. That was a totally unnecessary remark.
UniversalTheologian
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10/15/2015 1:46:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 1:39:55 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:20:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 2:24:36 PM, dee-em wrote:
There is no 'supreme' or 'ultimate' reality. There is just reality. Your claim is an assertion without evidence and can be dismissed without evidence.

What do you consider to be reality?

The same as (nearly) everyone else. Everything which can be perceived to exist or to have existed by our senses or extension of our senses. That is, the universe in its entirety.

So if something can not be sensed, that means that it isn't real? You don't think that is naive?

Either way, if you believe that the universe in its entirety is reality, that would mean that you believe in God as a pantheist would. It certainly doesn't sound like you are an atheist.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
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10/15/2015 1:48:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 1:43:42 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:36:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 2:00:09 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:56:06 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:41:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
What is The Greatest?

Be more specific, please? The greatest what? Do you mean Muhammed Ali? You need to ask a specific question to get a specific answer.


I'll give you a hint.

What do you get when you break up "theism"?

The IS

Theism is the study of the "is".


The greatest? What Is?

Look these words up in a dictionary it helps.

What

Is

The

Greatest

Look in a grade school grammer text. Greatest is an adjective, not a noun. if you wish to have a object to your question, please use the appropriate part of speech. The dictionary will explain that too.

Sho 'nuff, I can see your confusion. "The Greatest" is a name of God. I will ask you a similar question.


What is the greatest authority?

Depends. When you're a child that would be your parents. As you get older it becomes your boss, the Government, perhaps your pastor or preacher as God's supposed proxy. As fully matured adult the greatest authority for me is me. I decide what I will and won't do and what consequences I am prepared to face. I cannot abrogate the responsibility for my actions so I also accept full authority to do as I see fit and necessary.

Sho' nuff? Not sure if you're trying to be intentionally insulting or you're just silly. That was a totally unnecessary remark.

So you believe that you yourself are the greatest authority? Are you not subject to the laws of physics?
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
dhardage
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10/15/2015 1:53:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 1:48:50 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:43:42 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/15/2015 1:36:29 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 2:00:09 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:56:06 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/14/2015 1:41:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
What is The Greatest?

Be more specific, please? The greatest what? Do you mean Muhammed Ali? You need to ask a specific question to get a specific answer.


I'll give you a hint.

What do you get when you break up "theism"?

The IS

Theism is the study of the "is".


The greatest? What Is?

Look these words up in a dictionary it helps.

What

Is

The

Greatest

Look in a grade school grammer text. Greatest is an adjective, not a noun. if you wish to have a object to your question, please use the appropriate part of speech. The dictionary will explain that too.

Sho 'nuff, I can see your confusion. "The Greatest" is a name of God. I will ask you a similar question.


What is the greatest authority?

Depends. When you're a child that would be your parents. As you get older it becomes your boss, the Government, perhaps your pastor or preacher as God's supposed proxy. As fully matured adult the greatest authority for me is me. I decide what I will and won't do and what consequences I am prepared to face. I cannot abrogate the responsibility for my actions so I also accept full authority to do as I see fit and necessary.

Sho' nuff? Not sure if you're trying to be intentionally insulting or you're just silly. That was a totally unnecessary remark.

So you believe that you yourself are the greatest authority? Are you not subject to the laws of physics?

The laws of physics are descriptive, not prescriptive. It's not 'authority' that drags me down but the nature of things. It's not willful or the result of a conscious decision. Thus, obeying the laws of physics isn't really a choice anyone can make but it's not like I'm bowing to Physics as some kind of entity. As far as my actions and my responsibilities go, yes. In the end it is fully my will, my volition that controls what I do and decides what consequences I am ready to bear for my actions. That, you see, is the difference in an adult and a child. An adult realizes that his or her decisions are solely his or her own while a child will say 'oh, he made me do it' when they allow themselves to be convinced to do something they know to be wrong. It's like the idea of Satan tempting you, it's just an excuse to avoid responsibility.