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See Agony of Animal After Cutting It "

dattaswami
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10/15/2015 5:22:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

To kill an innocent animal like deer for food, you are not a tiger or a lion staying in the natural forest following the natural set-up. At least, the tiger or lion is excused because it will never eat vegetarian food. You are a human being granted with sharp intelligence that does sharp analysis and you have the option of vegetarian food. You also eat the vegetarian food. If you kill an innocent animal like goat for your food, even though you have the option of the alternative vegetarian food, your attitude is proceeding in such a direction so that you will harm any innocent human being also for your enjoyment even though you have the alternative option for such enjoyment.

This is more than sadism because a sadist enjoys by harming another person and he has no alternative person there for such enjoyment. If you analyze this subject through your sharp intelligence, you will find that the vegetarian food is far better than non-vegetarian food as per the medical science. The proteins extracted by you from the plants in your vegetarian food are primary and are very good for health.

The proteins taken by the animals from plants are re-synthesized in the body of the animal and such proteins are secondary only. The secondary proteins are not good for health. Therefore, as a student of science, you should act in every step after doing scientific analysis only. Apart from this, consider the path of sympathy, kindness and human compassion on seeing the agony of the bird or animal just after cutting it. If you do not give any consideration to these values and be cruel only, neither you are fit to study the science nor fit to study the arts having human values.

God came in human forms like Buddha and Mahaveera on this single programme only and preached the non-violence. Even though you do not participate in the killing of animal or bird, you become the due partner of the sin since the butcher is killing animals and birds to supply the mutton based on the demand of purchasers like you only.

The scripture says that the non-violence is the highest justice (Ahimsaa paramo dharmah...). Even the plants have life but their mind is very primitive and hence the pain is very negligible compared to the birds, animals and human beings. Even in the case of plants, they are cut only after death, which ripens on losing the chlorophyll. Parvati was called as Aparna because she did not even pluck the green leaves for her food during her penance. The sin is not in the non-vegetarian food, which is as good as vegetarian food, if you analyze the constituents like the common carbohydrates, proteins, vitamins, minerals etc.

The sin lies only in the pain experienced by the animal or the bird in its death. Think a while that you are in its position and then discuss the subject.

There is no sin in eating a naturally dead animal and a sect of Hindus called as Kapalikas do this and are not found fault for this. The word "Maamsa" or mutton is derived like this "As this fellow (sa) kills me (Maam) now, I will kill him in the next birth". Based on this, you become the innocent goat and the innocent goat becomes the butcher in the next birth so that the pain is practically experienced by you.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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10/16/2015 12:36:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 5:22:28 PM, dattaswami wrote:
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

To kill an innocent animal like deer for food, you are not a tiger or a lion staying in the natural forest following the natural set-up. At least, the tiger or lion is excused because it will never eat vegetarian food. You are a human being granted with sharp intelligence that does sharp analysis and you have the option of vegetarian food. You also eat the vegetarian food. If you kill an innocent animal like goat for your food, even though you have the option of the alternative vegetarian food, your attitude is proceeding in such a direction so that you will harm any innocent human being also for your enjoyment even though you have the alternative option for such enjoyment.

This is more than sadism because a sadist enjoys by harming another person and he has no alternative person there for such enjoyment. If you analyze this subject through your sharp intelligence, you will find that the vegetarian food is far better than non-vegetarian food as per the medical science. The proteins extracted by you from the plants in your vegetarian food are primary and are very good for health.

The proteins taken by the animals from plants are re-synthesized in the body of the animal and such proteins are secondary only. The secondary proteins are not good for health. Therefore, as a student of science, you should act in every step after doing scientific analysis only. Apart from this, consider the path of sympathy, kindness and human compassion on seeing the agony of the bird or animal just after cutting it. If you do not give any consideration to these values and be cruel only, neither you are fit to study the science nor fit to study the arts having human values.

God came in human forms like Buddha and Mahaveera on this single programme only and preached the non-violence. Even though you do not participate in the killing of animal or bird, you become the due partner of the sin since the butcher is killing animals and birds to supply the mutton based on the demand of purchasers like you only.

The scripture says that the non-violence is the highest justice (Ahimsaa paramo dharmah...). Even the plants have life but their mind is very primitive and hence the pain is very negligible compared to the birds, animals and human beings. Even in the case of plants, they are cut only after death, which ripens on losing the chlorophyll. Parvati was called as Aparna because she did not even pluck the green leaves for her food during her penance. The sin is not in the non-vegetarian food, which is as good as vegetarian food, if you analyze the constituents like the common carbohydrates, proteins, vitamins, minerals etc.

The sin lies only in the pain experienced by the animal or the bird in its death. Think a while that you are in its position and then discuss the subject.

There is no sin in eating a naturally dead animal and a sect of Hindus called as Kapalikas do this and are not found fault for this. The word "Maamsa" or mutton is derived like this "As this fellow (sa) kills me (Maam) now, I will kill him in the next birth". Based on this, you become the innocent goat and the innocent goat becomes the butcher in the next birth so that the pain is practically experienced by you.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

Humans are naturally meat eaters, and providing an animal is killed as humanely as possibly I have no problem with eating meat.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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10/16/2015 2:49:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
from surya (disciple of Swamiji)

It is not so. Many people do not eat meat in many countries. Some orthodox people have aversion for the non-vegetarian food. So, human beings are not naturally meat eaters.

The sufferance undergone during killing can be known only when killed. In the world wars, when our co-human beings die/ are killed, there will be a huge uproar in humanity. Why not the same during killing of animals by human beings?

At 10/16/2015 12:36:32 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Humans are naturally meat eaters, and providing an animal is killed as humanely as possibly I have no problem with eating meat.
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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10/16/2015 2:51:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh my, this is so ridiculous. Sorry but I have to respond.

dattaswami wrote:
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

To kill an innocent animal like deer for food, you are not a tiger or a lion staying in the natural forest following the natural set-up.

Of course, as a biological species which is omnivore, we are following the natural order by using nature's gifts, granted that we do not transgress.

By the way, what about all those innocent native animals kicked out of their natural environment to plow agricultural land? How about the poor insects and plant habitat that you mercilessly exterminate by spreading long-term poison to the environment through pesticides, organic pesticides, or herbicides, cheap fertilizers, genetic engineering, or depletion of soil fertility?

You are a human being granted with sharp intelligence that does sharp analysis and you have the option of vegetarian food. You also eat the vegetarian food. If you kill an innocent animal like goat for your food, even though you have the option of the alternative vegetarian food, your attitude is proceeding in such a direction so that you will harm any innocent human being also for your enjoyment even though you have the alternative option for such enjoyment.

Sigh... short-sighted "solutions" that will lead to the death of millions of people and inevitable economic death of countless societies. Seriously, some green people are genocidal, and yet he had the audacity to use a cheesy slippery slope fallacy.

Who said anything about enjoyment? He requires the use of slander and baseless accusations to support his argument, which tells us a lot about his argument.

This is more than sadism because a sadist enjoys by harming another person and he has no alternative person there for such enjoyment. If you analyze this subject through your sharp intelligence, you will find that the vegetarian food is far better than non-vegetarian food as per the medical science. The proteins extracted by you from the plants in your vegetarian food are primary and are very good for health.

Ugh, why do you sadistically deny yourself nutrients and prohibiting a balanced meal on yourself causing you to need to eat more food (this isn't about sustainability or saving lives)? Of course he had to refer to bogus studies that are not controlled, barely have any sample, and have questionable understanding of the word "methodology".

Although bias is technically a form of intelligence, there are better utilization.

What is enjoyed is eating, which is a relief that happens due to the need of satisfying hunger. Slaughter, ritualistic or not, is preferred to be done with little pain and those who do purposely and needlessly increase animal suffering are considered to have mental illness by most societies I heard of.

The proteins taken by the animals from plants are re-synthesized in the body of the animal and such proteins are secondary only. The secondary proteins are not good for health. Therefore, as a student of science, you should act in every step after doing scientific analysis only. Apart from this, consider the path of sympathy, kindness and human compassion on seeing the agony of the bird or animal just after cutting it. If you do not give any consideration to these values and be cruel only, neither you are fit to study the science nor fit to study the arts having human values.

Sigh... Kettle meet Pot. Scratch that, low-carb/meat-based diet crowd are not equal or worse to low-fat/plant-based diet crowd.

The opposite of his statement is true; total plant food, percent of diet as plant protein, and wheat all strongly positively associated with death from all medical causes and shorter life span.

Appealing to science while not adhering to the scientific method... So much question begging.

Also, based on Karma every genocide or cruelty is justice.

God came in human forms like Buddha and Mahaveera on this single programme only and preached the non-violence. Even though you do not participate in the killing of animal or bird, you become the due partner of the sin since the butcher is killing animals and birds to supply the mutton based on the demand of purchasers like you only.

If you catch a burglar or a con artist, are you going to initiate violence? If you believe in retribution or that certain rights and values are to be protected you believe in (righteous) violence like any reasonable person.

Ignoring the contradiction of God being transcendent and physically human at the same time.

Getting countless people hungry and economically broke is genocide.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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10/16/2015 3:21:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Interpretation of Scripture on Non-vegetarian Food ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Eating the non-vegetarian food is one issue and killing a living being, to collect the flesh out of it, is another issue. The first issue does not involve any sin because the non-vegetarian food or flesh or meat contains the same ingredients as those of a vegetarian item. The same carbohydrates, the same proteins, the same vitamins, the same minerals etc., exist in both meat and vegetables. Therefore, to eat the flesh of a living being, which died naturally through old age, is not a sin. Kapalikas (a sect of Hinduism), eat the dead bodies and therefore, they are not considered as sinners since this sect of religion is respected.

But, the flesh of the living being, which dies due to old age, is not recommended because generally the death of an old living being happens due to some disease. Then, the flesh of such a living being is not good for the reasons of health. But, the living being might have been killed through some accident or by some cruel animal and the flesh left over may be hygienic. In such case, the non-vegetarian food need not be rejected on the ground of sin because the eater of such flesh neither killed it nor had any intention to kill it. In any case, there is no sin in eating the non-vegetarian food provided you neither kill the living being nor you should be responsible for killing it.

You may say that you eat the meat but you did not kill the living being directly with your hands. Since you eat the meat, you have become the consumer of the meat. The butcher, who kills the animals or birds, kills these animals or birds only for the sake of consumers in his business. Therefore, even though you did not kill the living being directly with your hands, you have become the indirect supporter of it by eating the meat. Hence, you have to share the sin. If you finding the killed living being through an accident and if you collect its flesh, you do not share the sin. But, beware that your taste of such accidental meat may increase slowly and you may kill the animal directly or indirectly in course of time for the meat! Hence, it is better to avoid the meat from the beginning itself.

The sin comes only if you kill the living being directly or become responsible for its killing indirectly and you have to face the punishment of such a sin. You may find the Veda or the scriptures speaking about the non-vegetarian food and killing of a living being in sacrifice. By this, you should not think that the Veda or the scripture provokes you to kill the animal. In fact, the scripture controls you to kill the animal by suggesting the sacrifice to be done in a specified season like spring only (VasanteVasantejyotishaayajeta"). The sacrifice called "Jyotishtoma" should be performed only in spring season. By this, you control the killing of animal in other seasons. You cannot totally oppose the killing of animal in the beginning itself. Instead of killing the animal every day or every week, you can allow the killing of animal once in a year only. This reduces the killing of the animal gradually and finally, you can avoid the killing forever. This is just like running along a running bull for some distance before you control it.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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10/16/2015 3:24:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 3:21:57 PM, dattaswami wrote:
Interpretation of Scripture on Non-vegetarian Food ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Eating the non-vegetarian food is one issue and killing a living being, to collect the flesh out of it, is another issue. The first issue does not involve any sin because the non-vegetarian food or flesh or meat contains the same ingredients as those of a vegetarian item. The same carbohydrates, the same proteins, the same vitamins, the same minerals etc., exist in both meat and vegetables. Therefore, to eat the flesh of a living being, which died naturally through old age, is not a sin. Kapalikas (a sect of Hinduism), eat the dead bodies and therefore, they are not considered as sinners since this sect of religion is respected.

But, the flesh of the living being, which dies due to old age, is not recommended because generally the death of an old living being happens due to some disease. Then, the flesh of such a living being is not good for the reasons of health. But, the living being might have been killed through some accident or by some cruel animal and the flesh left over may be hygienic. In such case, the non-vegetarian food need not be rejected on the ground of sin because the eater of such flesh neither killed it nor had any intention to kill it. In any case, there is no sin in eating the non-vegetarian food provided you neither kill the living being nor you should be responsible for killing it.

You may say that you eat the meat but you did not kill the living being directly with your hands. Since you eat the meat, you have become the consumer of the meat. The butcher, who kills the animals or birds, kills these animals or birds only for the sake of consumers in his business. Therefore, even though you did not kill the living being directly with your hands, you have become the indirect supporter of it by eating the meat. Hence, you have to share the sin. If you finding the killed living being through an accident and if you collect its flesh, you do not share the sin. But, beware that your taste of such accidental meat may increase slowly and you may kill the animal directly or indirectly in course of time for the meat! Hence, it is better to avoid the meat from the beginning itself.

The sin comes only if you kill the living being directly or become responsible for its killing indirectly and you have to face the punishment of such a sin. You may find the Veda or the scriptures speaking about the non-vegetarian food and killing of a living being in sacrifice. By this, you should not think that the Veda or the scripture provokes you to kill the animal. In fact, the scripture controls you to kill the animal by suggesting the sacrifice to be done in a specified season like spring only (VasanteVasantejyotishaayajeta"). The sacrifice called "Jyotishtoma" should be performed only in spring season. By this, you control the killing of animal in other seasons. You cannot totally oppose the killing of animal in the beginning itself. Instead of killing the animal every day or every week, you can allow the killing of animal once in a year only. This reduces the killing of the animal gradually and finally, you can avoid the killing forever. This is just like running along a running bull for some distance before you control it.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

You don't have to eat meat if it is against your principles, but many others don't see it your way and will continue to eat it.
Otokage
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10/16/2015 4:42:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 5:22:28 PM, dattaswami wrote:
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

To kill an innocent animal like deer for food, you are not a tiger or a lion staying in the natural forest following the natural set-up. At least, the tiger or lion is excused because it will never eat vegetarian food. You are a human being granted with sharp intelligence that does sharp analysis and you have the option of vegetarian food. You also eat the vegetarian food. If you kill an innocent animal like goat for your food, even though you have the option of the alternative vegetarian food, your attitude is proceeding in such a direction so that you will harm any innocent human being also for your enjoyment even though you have the alternative option for such enjoyment.

This is more than sadism because a sadist enjoys by harming another person and he has no alternative person there for such enjoyment. If you analyze this subject through your sharp intelligence, you will find that the vegetarian food is far better than non-vegetarian food as per the medical science. The proteins extracted by you from the plants in your vegetarian food are primary and are very good for health.

The proteins taken by the animals from plants are re-synthesized in the body of the animal and such proteins are secondary only. The secondary proteins are not good for health. Therefore, as a student of science, you should act in every step after doing scientific analysis only.

That there are such things as "primary proteins" and "secondary proteins" and that the proteins from vegetables are healthier than the proteins from meat, is not scientific analysis, but bhuddist propaganda with all due respect. Proteins with more essential aminoacids are called high quality proteins, and are both in vegetables and in animal derived products. In fact, contrary to your statement, high quality proteins are mostly found on animal related products like milk and eggs. Soia proteins, often regarded as the best vegetal product while talking about proteins, does not match milk or egg proteins quality (quantity of essential aminoacids).

Despite what I mentioned above, yes I agree vegetarian diet is overall healthier than meaty diet, but not precisely because of the protein quality.

Apart from this, consider the path of sympathy, kindness and human compassion on seeing the agony of the bird or animal just after cutting it. If you do not give any consideration to these values and be cruel only, neither you are fit to study the science nor fit to study the arts having human values.

I agree with this. Vegetarians that I know that are so because of moral convictions, strike me as role model of sympathy, kindness and compassion.

God came in human forms like Buddha and Mahaveera on this single programme only and preached the non-violence. Even though you do not participate in the killing of animal or bird, you become the due partner of the sin since the butcher is killing animals and birds to supply the mutton based on the demand of purchasers like you only.

The scripture says that the non-violence is the highest justice (Ahimsaa paramo dharmah...). Even the plants have life but their mind is very primitive and hence the pain is very negligible compared to the birds, animals and human beings. Even in the case of plants, they are cut only after death, which ripens on losing the chlorophyll.

Loosing chlorophyll doesn't mean a plant is dead, at all. Lots of trees loose their green tissues on autum, but I'm sure you realize they do not die :)

Parvati was called as Aparna because she did not even pluck the green leaves for her food during her penance. The sin is not in the non-vegetarian food, which is as good as vegetarian food, if you analyze the constituents like the common carbohydrates, proteins, vitamins, minerals etc.

The sin lies only in the pain experienced by the animal or the bird in its death. Think a while that you are in its position and then discuss the subject.

I believe this doesn't take into account the huge cruelty of animal enslaving. Farm (or rather factory) animals, despite being alive and far from death, are still suffering, sometimes so much more in their day a day than in their death. This is why I believe the eating of products like eggs and milk, despite not involving animal killing, are still immoral to an extent.

There is no sin in eating a naturally dead animal

I agree.

and a sect of Hindus called as Kapalikas do this and are not found fault for this. The word "Maamsa" or mutton is derived like this "As this fellow (sa) kills me (Maam) now, I will kill him in the next birth". Based on this, you become the innocent goat and the innocent goat becomes the butcher in the next birth so that the pain is practically experienced by you.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

Take care :)
dattaswami
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10/16/2015 4:55:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

One sympathizes the human beings affected in other countries also since all human beings are one. But one should broaden his mind and should feel that all the living beings are one and sympathize every living being. The natural calamities will then disappear.

The tsunami in the sea and the quakes in the earth are only the anger of God in killing the life in water and the life on the land respectively. The sea with its wave-hands is always warning the people not to kill the poor harmless aquatic creatures like fish etc., for the sake of food. God created lot of vegetable food, which is the best even according to present science of health. The sea represents the Lord and finally kills the sinners with his own wave-hands. Goddess earth kills the sinners through quakes since these sinners kill the innocent creatures on the earth.

Tsunami is the result of combined anger of father-sea and mother-earth. These innocent creatures have no advocate and even cannot file a criminal case in our courts. Such formalities are not necessary for His all-pervading court. One sees the punishment only and not the sin, which is the cause.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

At 10/16/2015 3:24:46 PM, JJ50 wrote:
You don't have to eat meat if it is against your principles, but many others don't see it your way and will continue to eat it.
UniversalTheologian
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10/16/2015 6:24:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As a lover of God's creatures, I have a great deal of respect for those who choose the path of non-violence towards life.

I would like to call attention to this passage from Paul's Epistle to the Romans, as I feel it is relevant, especially to those who might consider vegetarianism or veganism abhorrent.

Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another"s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord"s. For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written:

"As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God."

So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother"s way.

I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
drpiek
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10/16/2015 6:57:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 5:22:28 PM, dattaswami wrote:
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

To kill an innocent animal like deer for food, you are not a tiger or a lion staying in the natural forest following the natural set-up. At least, the tiger or lion is excused because it will never eat vegetarian food. You are a human being granted with sharp intelligence that does sharp analysis and you have the option of vegetarian food. You also eat the vegetarian food. If you kill an innocent animal like goat for your food, even though you have the option of the alternative vegetarian food, your attitude is proceeding in such a direction so that you will harm any innocent human being also for your enjoyment even though you have the alternative option for such enjoyment.

This is more than sadism because a sadist enjoys by harming another person and he has no alternative person there for such enjoyment. If you analyze this subject through your sharp intelligence, you will find that the vegetarian food is far better than non-vegetarian food as per the medical science. The proteins extracted by you from the plants in your vegetarian food are primary and are very good for health.

The proteins taken by the animals from plants are re-synthesized in the body of the animal and such proteins are secondary only. The secondary proteins are not good for health. Therefore, as a student of science, you should act in every step after doing scientific analysis only. Apart from this, consider the path of sympathy, kindness and human compassion on seeing the agony of the bird or animal just after cutting it. If you do not give any consideration to these values and be cruel only, neither you are fit to study the science nor fit to study the arts having human values.

God came in human forms like Buddha and Mahaveera on this single programme only and preached the non-violence. Even though you do not participate in the killing of animal or bird, you become the due partner of the sin since the butcher is killing animals and birds to supply the mutton based on the demand of purchasers like you only.

The scripture says that the non-violence is the highest justice (Ahimsaa paramo dharmah...). Even the plants have life but their mind is very primitive and hence the pain is very negligible compared to the birds, animals and human beings. Even in the case of plants, they are cut only after death, which ripens on losing the chlorophyll. Parvati was called as Aparna because she did not even pluck the green leaves for her food during her penance. The sin is not in the non-vegetarian food, which is as good as vegetarian food, if you analyze the constituents like the common carbohydrates, proteins, vitamins, minerals etc.

The sin lies only in the pain experienced by the animal or the bird in its death. Think a while that you are in its position and then discuss the subject.

There is no sin in eating a naturally dead animal and a sect of Hindus called as Kapalikas do this and are not found fault for this. The word "Maamsa" or mutton is derived like this "As this fellow (sa) kills me (Maam) now, I will kill him in the next birth". Based on this, you become the innocent goat and the innocent goat becomes the butcher in the next birth so that the pain is practically experienced by you.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

Science has shown that plants feel pain, and potentially respond to emotion and other stimuli. Why is it OK to eat an innocent plant?

Tigers are natural carnivores, and it is good that they stick to their nature
Cows are natural Herbivores, and it is good for them to stick to their nature.
Humans like most other primates are naturally omnivorous.... Are you saying we should reject our nature?
dattaswami
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10/17/2015 6:55:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Plants " (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Life is Prana or the oxygen maintained by the respiratory system that is needed to oxidize the food taken by the digestive system. Life is present in plants. Mind requires a nervous system, which is developed in birds and animals. The main part of the nervous system is the brain, which is well developed in human beings.

The plants have life but not awareness (awareness is negligible and can be treated as almost absent). So, sufferance is almost negligible. Anyway rice is made from dead plants.

Life energy produced by the respiratory system exists even in plants, which do not have knowledge, love and bliss. But the same life energy associated with the nervous system becomes awareness, which is present in animals, birds and human beings.

Life energy is like the electricity produced from a turbine, which is like the respiratory system. This electricity enters a light bulb and is converted into light. Thus the life energy produced from the respiratory system is converted into awareness when it enters the "light bulb", which is the nervous system. So knowledge, love and bliss, which are the characteristics of awareness, exist in birds, animals and all human beings.

Plants can be included under the item of living beings but not under the item of awareness (soul).

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

At 10/16/2015 6:57:27 PM, drpiek wrote:
Science has shown that plants feel pain, and potentially respond to emotion and other stimuli. Why is it OK to eat an innocent plant?

Tigers are natural carnivores, and it is good that they stick to their nature
Cows are natural Herbivores, and it is good for them to stick to their nature.
Humans like most other primates are naturally omnivorous.... Are you saying we should reject our nature?
dattaswami
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10/17/2015 7:11:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
from surya (disciple of Swamiji)

God can come in human form and answer the questions of all the devotees. Obviously, God is omniscient (all-knowing) and so He can answer. A human being cannot convince the other human beings because of his limited knowledge. Hence, in the spirituality, the word of God is only ultimate.

Necessity of incarnation ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

When you read scriptures, which are discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you study a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts & you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations.

Suppose you study same course in a college & lecturer explains in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then & there & you will surely get correct interpretation at correct moment. The clarification is important at correct moment because without clarification latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations & past scriptures.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings.

The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. So the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.

At 10/16/2015 6:24:01 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
As a lover of God's creatures, I have a great deal of respect for those who choose the path of non-violence towards life.

I would like to call attention to this passage from Paul's Epistle to the Romans, as I feel it is relevant, especially to those who might consider vegetarianism or veganism abhorrent.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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10/18/2015 3:16:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/17/2015 6:55:09 AM, dattaswami wrote:
Plants " (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Life is Prana or the oxygen maintained by the respiratory system that is needed to oxidize the food taken by the digestive system. Life is present in plants. Mind requires a nervous system, which is developed in birds and animals. The main part of the nervous system is the brain, which is well developed in human beings.

The plants have life but not awareness (awareness is negligible and can be treated as almost absent). So, sufferance is almost negligible. Anyway rice is made from dead plants.

Life energy produced by the respiratory system exists even in plants, which do not have knowledge, love and bliss. But the same life energy associated with the nervous system becomes awareness, which is present in animals, birds and human beings.

Life energy is like the electricity produced from a turbine, which is like the respiratory system. This electricity enters a light bulb and is converted into light. Thus the life energy produced from the respiratory system is converted into awareness when it enters the "light bulb", which is the nervous system. So knowledge, love and bliss, which are the characteristics of awareness, exist in birds, animals and all human beings.

Plants can be included under the item of living beings but not under the item of awareness (soul).

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org





At 10/16/2015 6:57:27 PM, drpiek wrote:
Science has shown that plants feel pain, and potentially respond to emotion and other stimuli. Why is it OK to eat an innocent plant?

Tigers are natural carnivores, and it is good that they stick to their nature
Cows are natural Herbivores, and it is good for them to stick to their nature.
Humans like most other primates are naturally omnivorous.... Are you saying we should reject our nature?

If your Swami had any actual divine knowledge he would know that plants absolutely demonstrate awareness. There have been many scientific studies that show that plants feel pain, make decisions, react to their environment, and there have been studies that have demonstrated that plants recognize people, and can show fear and empathy. Do some digging I am sure you will find examples of what I am talking about.

To suggest plants cannot be aware because they do not have a brain, is about as wise as suggesting they cannot breath because they do not have lungs.

The truth is that animals must consume life to live, some feel strange about that so they make up rules that make them feel better about it. For instance, I know one person who does not eat anything that came from something that had a face. So for her, clams are OK but Shrimp are not.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/18/2015 4:09:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/17/2015 7:11:33 AM, dattaswami wrote:
from surya (disciple of Swamiji)

God can come in human form and answer the questions of all the devotees. Obviously, God is omniscient (all-knowing) and so He can answer. A human being cannot convince the other human beings because of his limited knowledge. Hence, in the spirituality, the word of God is only ultimate.

Necessity of incarnation ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

When you read scriptures, which are discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you study a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts & you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations.

Suppose you study same course in a college & lecturer explains in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then & there & you will surely get correct interpretation at correct moment. The clarification is important at correct moment because without clarification latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations & past scriptures.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings.

The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. So the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.


It's rather silly to think that it is possible to go about living without harming some form of life. Certainly, we can do our best to avoid killing animals and even insects, but there are forms of life which we unconsciously kill.

The Law of Love is one of Forgiveness. No matter how pure a human being may be, they still fall short of the glory of God. An honest man will see this as being evident. Understanding the grace we have been given, we are expected to pass this on as the defining attitude of our moral code. Forgiveness.

The fall of man occurred the moment that we considered ourselves to be the rightful judge of Good and Evil. Certainly, we have this ability, but we do not have a complete picture. God is the rightful judge of Good and Evil. The reconciliation of man occurred the moment we realized that salvation is a grace from God, as we all fall short.

All of the Law and The Prophets, all the incarnations of God's word that were sent to all the nations are united in message. That God is The One Ultimate Reality and the straight path of correction is to Love God with all your being, practice forgiveness and charity towards others, and to always make an effort to purify your heart in order to better embody this path.

Of many doctrines, there are no end. Of holy scripture, if the oceans were filled with ink, it would not be enough to write all that God has done. All these serve their purpose in revealing the state of the heart, and are useful for instruction in godliness. However, God's salvation is not about legalism, philosophy, gain in this world, or carnality, but how this experience which is trapped in duality relates to The Unknowable and Transcendentally Incomparable God.

Gnosticism or knowing is considered error for good reason. Fundamentally, it is a position that comes from ignorance of the tool that is being used to measure. Know the self, and the nature of perception is revealed for what it really is. Illusory and impermanent. Enlightenment comes from a deep appreciation of how little it is that we actually know. There is a great deal that can be extracted from understanding our own ignorance. Truly, God is The Greatest, that destroyer of all principalities and dominions.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Micheal21
Posts: 39
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11/26/2015 4:40:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/15/2015 5:22:28 PM, dattaswami wrote:
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

To kill an innocent animal like deer for food, you are not a tiger or a lion staying in the natural forest following the natural set-up. At least, the tiger or lion is excused because it will never eat vegetarian food. You are a human being granted with sharp intelligence that does sharp analysis and you have the option of vegetarian food. You also eat the vegetarian food. If you kill an innocent animal like goat for your food, even though you have the option of the alternative vegetarian food, your attitude is proceeding in such a direction so that you will harm any innocent human being also for your enjoyment even though you have the alternative option for such enjoyment.

This is more than sadism because a sadist enjoys by harming another person and he has no alternative person there for such enjoyment. If you analyze this subject through your sharp intelligence, you will find that the vegetarian food is far better than non-vegetarian food as per the medical science. The proteins extracted by you from the plants in your vegetarian food are primary and are very good for health.

The proteins taken by the animals from plants are re-synthesized in the body of the animal and such proteins are secondary only. The secondary proteins are not good for health. Therefore, as a student of science, you should act in every step after doing scientific analysis only. Apart from this, consider the path of sympathy, kindness and human compassion on seeing the agony of the bird or animal just after cutting it. If you do not give any consideration to these values and be cruel only, neither you are fit to study the science nor fit to study the arts having human values.

God came in human forms like Buddha and Mahaveera on this single programme only and preached the non-violence. Even though you do not participate in the killing of animal or bird, you become the due partner of the sin since the butcher is killing animals and birds to supply the mutton based on the demand of purchasers like you only.

The scripture says that the non-violence is the highest justice (Ahimsaa paramo dharmah...). Even the plants have life but their mind is very primitive and hence the pain is very negligible compared to the birds, animals and human beings. Even in the case of plants, they are cut only after death, which ripens on losing the chlorophyll. Parvati was called as Aparna because she did not even pluck the green leaves for her food during her penance. The sin is not in the non-vegetarian food, which is as good as vegetarian food, if you analyze the constituents like the common carbohydrates, proteins, vitamins, minerals etc.

The sin lies only in the pain experienced by the animal or the bird in its death. Think a while that you are in its position and then discuss the subject.

There is no sin in eating a naturally dead animal and a sect of Hindus called as Kapalikas do this and are not found fault for this. The word "Maamsa" or mutton is derived like this "As this fellow (sa) kills me (Maam) now, I will kill him in the next birth". Based on this, you become the innocent goat and the innocent goat becomes the butcher in the next birth so that the pain is practically experienced by you.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

This is a subject I've dwelt on in the past. While I do enjoy meat products, I do not enjoy seeing the suffering of animals. My dad is a farmer at heart and he raises his own livestock to feed and provide for the family. He really wanted me to follow in his ways and learn how to kill and prepare an animal for feasting. I could never do it. It didn't help that I aspired to become a vet as well. I couldn't stand to see the suffering of an animal. So much so that I moved out the first chance I got. I'm pretty much a hypocrit though because I regularly eat meat. I guess as long as I don't see it die/suffer, I'm content with appeasing my carnivorous nature.
Micheal21
Posts: 39
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11/26/2015 4:49:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 4:40:16 PM, Micheal21 wrote:
At 10/15/2015 5:22:28 PM, dattaswami wrote:
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

To kill an innocent animal like deer for food, you are not a tiger or a lion staying in the natural forest following the natural set-up. At least, the tiger or lion is excused because it will never eat vegetarian food. You are a human being granted with sharp intelligence that does sharp analysis and you have the option of vegetarian food. You also eat the vegetarian food. If you kill an innocent animal like goat for your food, even though you have the option of the alternative vegetarian food, your attitude is proceeding in such a direction so that you will harm any innocent human being also for your enjoyment even though you have the alternative option for such enjoyment.

This is more than sadism because a sadist enjoys by harming another person and he has no alternative person there for such enjoyment. If you analyze this subject through your sharp intelligence, you will find that the vegetarian food is far better than non-vegetarian food as per the medical science. The proteins extracted by you from the plants in your vegetarian food are primary and are very good for health.

The proteins taken by the animals from plants are re-synthesized in the body of the animal and such proteins are secondary only. The secondary proteins are not good for health. Therefore, as a student of science, you should act in every step after doing scientific analysis only. Apart from this, consider the path of sympathy, kindness and human compassion on seeing the agony of the bird or animal just after cutting it. If you do not give any consideration to these values and be cruel only, neither you are fit to study the science nor fit to study the arts having human values.

God came in human forms like Buddha and Mahaveera on this single programme only and preached the non-violence. Even though you do not participate in the killing of animal or bird, you become the due partner of the sin since the butcher is killing animals and birds to supply the mutton based on the demand of purchasers like you only.

The scripture says that the non-violence is the highest justice (Ahimsaa paramo dharmah...). Even the plants have life but their mind is very primitive and hence the pain is very negligible compared to the birds, animals and human beings. Even in the case of plants, they are cut only after death, which ripens on losing the chlorophyll. Parvati was called as Aparna because she did not even pluck the green leaves for her food during her penance. The sin is not in the non-vegetarian food, which is as good as vegetarian food, if you analyze the constituents like the common carbohydrates, proteins, vitamins, minerals etc.

The sin lies only in the pain experienced by the animal or the bird in its death. Think a while that you are in its position and then discuss the subject.

There is no sin in eating a naturally dead animal and a sect of Hindus called as Kapalikas do this and are not found fault for this. The word "Maamsa" or mutton is derived like this "As this fellow (sa) kills me (Maam) now, I will kill him in the next birth". Based on this, you become the innocent goat and the innocent goat becomes the butcher in the next birth so that the pain is practically experienced by you.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

This is a subject I've dwelt on in the past. While I do enjoy meat products, I do not enjoy seeing the suffering of animals. My dad is a farmer at heart and he raises his own livestock to feed and provide for the family. He really wanted me to follow in his ways and learn how to kill and prepare an animal for feasting. I could never do it. It didn't help that I aspired to become a vet as well. I couldn't stand to see the suffering of an animal. So much so that I moved out the first chance I got. I'm pretty much a hypocrit though because I regularly eat meat. I guess as long as I don't see it die/suffer, I'm content with appeasing my carnivorous nature.

Also, as I took up a hobby in bodybuilding when I was younger, read meat was ESSENTIAL for a balanced diet. While I did wish that I could go all veggie sometimes, I do know that it won't make a difference. McDonalds will still flourish. I remember seeing a video when I was younger of how they slaughtered animals before they chopped them up. It was enough to make me swear off meat. . .for a few months. I was right back to eating a burger. Maybe I should have just kept that video around anytime I felt the urge. . .