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For those who believe in God

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/19/2010 2:31:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
For those who believe in God...

What is God?

What evidence do you have for God?

If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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9/19/2010 3:31:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 2:31:36 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
For those who believe in God...

What is God?

- Spirit (John 4:24)
What evidence do you have for God?

- The promise of the spirit

If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

- It is not insufficient to convince others, everyone who receives the gift of the Spirit believes.
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
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9/19/2010 5:28:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 3:31:45 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/19/2010 2:31:36 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
For those who believe in God...

What is God?

- Spirit (John 4:24)
What evidence do you have for God?

- The promise of the spirit
A promise =/= evidence.
If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

- It is not insufficient to convince others, everyone who receives the gift of the Spirit believes.
Cop-out.
I miss the old members.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 12:46:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 3:31:45 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/19/2010 2:31:36 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
For those who believe in God...

What is God?

- Spirit (John 4:24)

24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Nothing further than that?

What evidence do you have for God?

- The promise of the spirit

What is that, how is it evidence?


If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

- It is not insufficient to convince others, everyone who receives the gift of the Spirit believes.

Can people believe without this gift, how is this gift acquired?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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9/20/2010 3:43:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 12:46:46 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2010 3:31:45 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/19/2010 2:31:36 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
For those who believe in God...

What is God?

- Spirit (John 4:24)

24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Nothing further than that?

What evidence do you have for God?

- The promise of the spirit

What is that, how is it evidence?


If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

- It is not insufficient to convince others, everyone who receives the gift of the Spirit believes.

Can people believe without this gift, how is this gift acquired?

----------------

God is spirit - "More than that" ?
If we were able to explain God then he would not be God, we do know some things about him, but really he is beyond our capability of understanding.

The promise of the spirit - "What is that, how is it evidence"?

A person receives the spirit AS a promise, it is the down payment to the relationship with Jesus, it is the dowry given by the father of the bridegroom (Jesus) to the bride (true believer) as done in actual Hebrew wedding customs.

The Church (believers) is said to be a virgin "espoused", or "betrothed" to Jesus in 2 Cor 11:2, and will become His heavenly "bride" in Rev 21:2 & 9.

how is it evidence?

Matt 16 - (KJV 1611)
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It was clearly evidence enough for Jesus and Peter, and I have also been provided with this rock of evidence. - chosen by the Father as a gift to his son the bridegroom, ( as in Jewish custom Gen 38:6 )

"Can people believe without the Gift"?

No only "the Elect" as elected by God
Rom 9:14-18:

14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth (wants it), nor of him that runneth (works for it), but of God that showeth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

"How is the gift acquired"?
The simple answer is "read the living word of God with an open mind". (Rom 10:17)

John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit".

this is also perfectly described in "Matt 3" in a parable involving harvesting techniques,

It helps to know a little about the wheat and tare - sheep and goats of the bible, one is obviously the flock of the good shepherd (Jesus)and the other is as Jesus told the non believing Pharisees "Ye are of your father the devil"( John 8:44)

Jesus gave his life for his sheep, Eph 5:25 - "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it";

Matt 3:12 "Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire"

The beasts (Oxen) were used to trample the fields, this would separate the wheat and tare from their stalks, the harvester would then toss the wheat and tare together in the air and if no wind a fan was used, the tare would blow away and the wheat would land at the feet of the harvester, it would then be put into storage (the kingdom) and the tare would be burned (Hell)

This is the baptism of the spirit and fire as spoken of by John the baptizer,

Luke 3:16 "I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

So Jesus lives and continues to save even on this very day.<((((><

------------------------------o O--^5 --
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 3:48:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 3:43:21 AM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/20/2010 12:46:46 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2010 3:31:45 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/19/2010 2:31:36 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
For those who believe in God...

What is God?

- Spirit (John 4:24)

24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Nothing further than that?

What evidence do you have for God?

- The promise of the spirit

What is that, how is it evidence?


If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

- It is not insufficient to convince others, everyone who receives the gift of the Spirit believes.

Can people believe without this gift, how is this gift acquired?

----------------

God is spirit - "More than that" ?
If we were able to explain God then he would not be God, we do know some things about him, but really he is beyond our capability of understanding.

Do you see how refusing to define any of the qualities of God is ultimately rather bankrupt?

The promise of the spirit - "What is that, how is it evidence"?

A person receives the spirit AS a promise, it is the down payment to the relationship with Jesus, it is the dowry given by the father of the bridegroom (Jesus) to the bride (true believer) as done in actual Hebrew wedding customs.

The Church (believers) is said to be a virgin "espoused", or "betrothed" to Jesus in 2 Cor 11:2, and will become His heavenly "bride" in Rev 21:2 & 9.

So you have to believe before you get the gift of spirit which allows you to believe?

how is it evidence?

Matt 16 - (KJV 1611)
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It was clearly evidence enough for Jesus and Peter, and I have also been provided with this rock of evidence. - chosen by the Father as a gift to his son the bridegroom, ( as in Jewish custom Gen 38:6 )


Where was this evidence?

"Can people believe without the Gift"?

No only "the Elect" as elected by God
Rom 9:14-18:


So what about the rest of us?

14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth (wants it), nor of him that runneth (works for it), but of God that showeth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

"How is the gift acquired"?
The simple answer is "read the living word of God with an open mind". (Rom 10:17)

So the bible is the vector of conversion?
What about people who have spent years studying it and are now atheists?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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9/20/2010 4:10:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 3:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/20/2010 3:43:21 AM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/20/2010 12:46:46 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2010 3:31:45 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/19/2010 2:31:36 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
For those who believe in God...

What is God?

- Spirit (John 4:24)

24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Nothing further than that?

What evidence do you have for God?

- The promise of the spirit

What is that, how is it evidence?


If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

- It is not insufficient to convince others, everyone who receives the gift of the Spirit believes.

Can people believe without this gift, how is this gift acquired?

----------------

God is spirit - "More than that" ?
If we were able to explain God then he would not be God, we do know some things about him, but really he is beyond our capability of understanding.

Do you see how refusing to define any of the qualities of God is ultimately rather bankrupt?

The promise of the spirit - "What is that, how is it evidence"?

A person receives the spirit AS a promise, it is the down payment to the relationship with Jesus, it is the dowry given by the father of the bridegroom (Jesus) to the bride (true believer) as done in actual Hebrew wedding customs.

The Church (believers) is said to be a virgin "espoused", or "betrothed" to Jesus in 2 Cor 11:2, and will become His heavenly "bride" in Rev 21:2 & 9.

So you have to believe before you get the gift of spirit which allows you to believe?

how is it evidence?

Matt 16 - (KJV 1611)
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It was clearly evidence enough for Jesus and Peter, and I have also been provided with this rock of evidence. - chosen by the Father as a gift to his son the bridegroom, ( as in Jewish custom Gen 38:6 )


Where was this evidence?

"Can people believe without the Gift"?

No only "the Elect" as elected by God
Rom 9:14-18:


So what about the rest of us?


14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth (wants it), nor of him that runneth (works for it), but of God that showeth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

"How is the gift acquired"?
The simple answer is "read the living word of God with an open mind". (Rom 10:17)

So the bible is the vector of conversion?
What about people who have spent years studying it and are now atheists?

-------------------

What about the rest of us ? - God will decide.

How is this evidence ? - if you ever feel the spirit you'll know the answer, it's not of this world.

Where was the evidence, - with God and whom ever he shares it with

-----------------------------------O O--^5 --
Anacharsis
Posts: 139
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9/20/2010 7:07:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The human mind is not able to grasp or explain God. We can comprehend the nature of God only by becoming one with God. One problem then becomes that such people, achieving this, either have to refocus their consciousness on their atomistic body and lose the fullness of their understanding, thus failing to convey it or else depart their body permanently, which also prevents conveying the experierience.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/20/2010 8:03:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
TGT, I hope you realize how ridiculous that is. Assuming God reveals himself directly to certain individuals creates some pretty serious theological issues; namely the Problem of Non-belief.

1. If God exists, God:
(a) wants all humans to believe God exists before they
(b) can bring about a situation in which all humans believe God exists before they
(c) does not want anything that would conflict with and be at least as important as its desire for all humans to believe God exists before they die;
(d) always acts in accordance with what it most wants.

2. If God exists, all humans would believe so before they die (from 1).
3. But not all humans believe God exists before they die.
.: Therefore, God does not exist (from 2 and 3).
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 8:08:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:03:41 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
TGT, I hope you realize how ridiculous that is. Assuming God reveals himself directly to certain individuals creates some pretty serious theological issues; namely the Problem of Non-belief.

1. If God exists, God:
(a) wants all humans to believe God exists before they
(b) can bring about a situation in which all humans believe God exists before they
(c) does not want anything that would conflict with and be at least as important as its desire for all humans to believe God exists before they die;
(d) always acts in accordance with what it most wants.

2. If God exists, all humans would believe so before they die (from 1).
3. But not all humans believe God exists before they die.
.: Therefore, God does not exist (from 2 and 3).

You are a terrible philosopher. In any case this thread is for believers to define God and discuss their evidence, not for weak arguments against God.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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9/20/2010 8:16:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:08:12 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
You are a terrible philosopher. In any case this thread is for believers to define God and discuss their evidence, not for weak arguments against God.

lol, Cerebral makes me so mad...
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/20/2010 8:17:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:08:12 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:03:41 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
TGT, I hope you realize how ridiculous that is. Assuming God reveals himself directly to certain individuals creates some pretty serious theological issues; namely the Problem of Non-belief.

1. If God exists, God:
(a) wants all humans to believe God exists before they
(b) can bring about a situation in which all humans believe God exists before they
(c) does not want anything that would conflict with and be at least as important as its desire for all humans to believe God exists before they die;
(d) always acts in accordance with what it most wants.

2. If God exists, all humans would believe so before they die (from 1).
3. But not all humans believe God exists before they die.
.: Therefore, God does not exist (from 2 and 3).

You are a terrible philosopher. In any case this thread is for believers to define God and discuss their evidence, not for weak arguments against God.

I'm a terrible philosopher? First of all, that's not my argument, that's Theodore Drange's argument, so you can tell him he's a terrible philosopher. Second, that's considered one of the two most powerful arguments against the existence of God (the other being the evidential PoE). Lastly, you still don't know the difference between cognitivism and non-cognitivism, so you're hardly one to talk.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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9/20/2010 8:17:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 7:07:05 AM, Anacharsis wrote:
The human mind is not able to grasp or explain God. We can comprehend the nature of God only by becoming one with God. One problem then becomes that such people, achieving this, either have to refocus their consciousness on their atomistic body and lose the fullness of their understanding, thus failing to convey it or else depart their body permanently, which also prevents conveying the experierience.

You have to gobbledy doodle a what with a what?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 8:23:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:16:03 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:08:12 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
You are a terrible philosopher. In any case this thread is for believers to define God and discuss their evidence, not for weak arguments against God.

lol, Cerebral makes me so mad...

Challenge me to a debate.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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9/20/2010 8:24:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:23:43 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:16:03 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:08:12 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
You are a terrible philosopher. In any case this thread is for believers to define God and discuss their evidence, not for weak arguments against God.

lol, Cerebral makes me so mad...

Challenge me to a debate.

Challenge Kenyon. I don't want to debate you.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 8:27:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:17:09 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:

I'm a terrible philosopher? First of all, that's not my argument, that's Theodore Drange's argument, so you can tell him he's a terrible philosopher.

Fine, next time I see him then I will. But in any case I have previously destroyed this argument on this very site.

Second, that's considered one of the two most powerful arguments against the existence of God (the other being the evidential PoE).

Both arguments are fatally flawed as they only address a specific very narrow religious viewpoint. They are not powerful arguments at all.

Lastly, you still don't know the difference between cognitivism and non-cognitivism, so you're hardly one to talk.

Says who? This has never cropped up before!
It also has even less to do with this thread than your original piece of garbage.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 8:30:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:24:53 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:23:43 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:16:03 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:08:12 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
You are a terrible philosopher. In any case this thread is for believers to define God and discuss their evidence, not for weak arguments against God.

lol, Cerebral makes me so mad...

Challenge me to a debate.

Challenge Kenyon. I don't want to debate you.

In which case keep your thoughts to yourself.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/20/2010 8:32:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:27:36 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:17:09 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:

I'm a terrible philosopher? First of all, that's not my argument, that's Theodore Drange's argument, so you can tell him he's a terrible philosopher.

Fine, next time I see him then I will.

You do that.

But in any case I have previously destroyed this argument on this very site.

Uh-huh. Sure...

Second, that's considered one of the two most powerful arguments against the existence of God (the other being the evidential PoE).

Both arguments are fatally flawed as they only address a specific very narrow religious viewpoint. They are not powerful arguments at all.

Well, seeing as the argument was directed at a Christian, I really don't see the issue here...

Lastly, you still don't know the difference between cognitivism and non-cognitivism, so you're hardly one to talk.

Says who? This has never cropped up before!
It also has even less to do with this thread than your original piece of garbage.

I'm going to be charitable assume that you're just trolling and not actually as stupid as you appear to be.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 8:38:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:32:26 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:27:36 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:17:09 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:

I'm a terrible philosopher? First of all, that's not my argument, that's Theodore Drange's argument, so you can tell him he's a terrible philosopher.

Fine, next time I see him then I will.

You do that.

But in any case I have previously destroyed this argument on this very site.

Uh-huh. Sure...

Second, that's considered one of the two most powerful arguments against the existence of God (the other being the evidential PoE).

Both arguments are fatally flawed as they only address a specific very narrow religious viewpoint. They are not powerful arguments at all.

Well, seeing as the argument was directed at a Christian, I really don't see the issue here...

Lastly, you still don't know the difference between cognitivism and non-cognitivism, so you're hardly one to talk.

Says who? This has never cropped up before!
It also has even less to do with this thread than your original piece of garbage.

I'm going to be charitable assume that you're just trolling and not actually as stupid as you appear to be.

Cognitivism and non-cognitivism has no relevance to this thread, the idea that I have an issue with these terms is news to me. Please learn to think, until you do so stay away from my threads.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 8:39:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Now, retards permitting lets get back on topic.

For those who believe in God...

What is God?

What evidence do you have for God?

If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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9/20/2010 9:38:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:39:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Now, retards permitting lets get back on topic.

For those who believe in God...

What is God?

What evidence do you have for God?

If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

-------------

Why do you present these questions ?

Imagine a God who is beyond our imagination
Imagine personal evidence that is beyond our explanation
Now Imagine the one thing that enables you to stop imagining, "faith"

The bible only provides one example of how to gain faith, tho it can be strengthened in a variety of ways.

---------------------
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/20/2010 11:04:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 8:03:41 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
TGT, I hope you realize how ridiculous that is. Assuming God reveals himself directly to certain individuals creates some pretty serious theological issues; namely the Problem of Non-belief.

1. If God exists, God:
(a) wants all humans to believe God exists before they
(b) can bring about a situation in which all humans believe God exists before they
(c) does not want anything that would conflict with and be at least as important as its desire for all humans to believe God exists before they die;
(d) always acts in accordance with what it most wants.

2. If God exists, all humans would believe so before they die (from 1).
3. But not all humans believe God exists before they die.
.: Therefore, God does not exist (from 2 and 3).

That doesn't refute the-good-teacher's claim. He said that there are people "elected" to believe in God.

Also, there are several Bible verses that explicitly state that some people are pre-determined to a certain fate.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/20/2010 11:28:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 11:04:06 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

That doesn't refute the-good-teacher's claim. He said that there are people "elected" to believe in God.

Also, there are several Bible verses that explicitly state that some people are pre-determined to a certain fate.

Sure, if you like taking verses out of context and ignoring the molinist theory reconciling free will with divine sovereignty.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 11:30:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 9:38:29 AM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:39:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Now, retards permitting lets get back on topic.

For those who believe in God...

What is God?

What evidence do you have for God?

If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

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Why do you present these questions ?

I would have thought that would be obvious.

The bible only provides one example of how to gain faith, tho it can be strengthened in a variety of ways.

What's that then.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/20/2010 11:30:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 11:04:06 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:03:41 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
TGT, I hope you realize how ridiculous that is. Assuming God reveals himself directly to certain individuals creates some pretty serious theological issues; namely the Problem of Non-belief.

1. If God exists, God:
(a) wants all humans to believe God exists before they
(b) can bring about a situation in which all humans believe God exists before they
(c) does not want anything that would conflict with and be at least as important as its desire for all humans to believe God exists before they die;
(d) always acts in accordance with what it most wants.

2. If God exists, all humans would believe so before they die (from 1).
3. But not all humans believe God exists before they die.
.: Therefore, God does not exist (from 2 and 3).

That doesn't refute the-good-teacher's claim. He said that there are people "elected" to believe in God.

Also, there are several Bible verses that explicitly state that some people are pre-determined to a certain fate.

Yea it's pretty pathetic.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/20/2010 11:42:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 11:28:08 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/20/2010 11:04:06 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

That doesn't refute the-good-teacher's claim. He said that there are people "elected" to believe in God.

Also, there are several Bible verses that explicitly state that some people are pre-determined to a certain fate.

Sure, if you like taking verses out of context

Such a weak defense. All Bible quotes are by definition, out of context.

and ignoring the molinist theory reconciling free will with divine sovereignty.

I actually meant "pre-destined" (rather than predetermined, though I also assert that predetermination is also a precondition in Judeo-Christian theology) which is why I said "to a certain fate."

Also, I've seen the molonist theory reconciling divine soveriegnty and free will and it was rather unconvincing.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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9/20/2010 11:45:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 11:28:08 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/20/2010 11:04:06 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

That doesn't refute the-good-teacher's claim. He said that there are people "elected" to believe in God.

Also, there are several Bible verses that explicitly state that some people are pre-determined to a certain fate.

Sure, if you like taking verses out of context and ignoring the molinist theory reconciling free will with divine sovereignty.

-----------------

Let's go back to eternity past, and look at the clearly revealed statements of God's will, desires, and decrees, "before the foundation of the earth":

Eph 1:4, and 2 Tim 1:9 teach that those who will be saved were chosen "before the foundation of the world":

Eph 1:4 "According as he hath chosen (Greek "eklectos") us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love".

2 Tim 1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began".

And, conversely, we see wicked people in the 7 year Tribulation whose names were NOT Written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world and never will be, (Greek perfect tense verb) in Rev 17:8:

Rev 17:8 "and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is".

We clearly see from these verses that God made His decision about who He would "save" and who He would allow to go their own way - "before the foundation of the world". So there could be no "point in time" where God "loved every human being".

Want more ?

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the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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9/20/2010 11:51:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 11:30:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/20/2010 9:38:29 AM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 9/20/2010 8:39:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Now, retards permitting lets get back on topic.

For those who believe in God...

What is God?

What evidence do you have for God?

If this evidence is sufficient to convince you, why is it insufficient to convince others?

-------------

Why do you present these questions ?

I would have thought that would be obvious.

The bible only provides one example of how to gain faith, tho it can be strengthened in a variety of ways.

What's that then.
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Reply - I provided it previously (Rom 10:17)
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J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/20/2010 11:55:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/20/2010 11:42:37 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/20/2010 11:28:08 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/20/2010 11:04:06 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

That doesn't refute the-good-teacher's claim. He said that there are people "elected" to believe in God.

Also, there are several Bible verses that explicitly state that some people are pre-determined to a certain fate.

Sure, if you like taking verses out of context

Such a weak defense. All Bible quotes are by definition, out of context.

Lol, what kind of response is that?

and ignoring the molinist theory reconciling free will with divine sovereignty.

I actually meant "pre-destined" (rather than predetermined, though I also assert that predetermination is also a precondition in Judeo-Christian theology) which is why I said "to a certain fate."

Also, I've seen the molonist theory reconciling divine soveriegnty and free will and it was rather unconvincing.

How so?