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Catholic Church: Intermediary w/Jesus?

lotsoffun
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10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/18/2015 9:07:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I require a full quote before commenting.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,609
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10/18/2015 9:36:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 9:07:12 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I require a full quote before commenting

You will find the following in video as well. It's all over the internet.
.Some "think they can have a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside of the communion and the mediation of the Church. Such temptations are dangerous and harmful. They are, in the words of the great Pope Paul VI, absurd dichotomies."- Pope Francis.
UniversalTheologian
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10/18/2015 10:19:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I believe what he was actually saying is that there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian, and communion or meeting together with other believers is essential to the faith.

Christianity is very social religion. Christians are not called to hide away in caves, they are called to be a part of society.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
lotsoffun
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10/18/2015 10:32:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 10:19:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
I believe what he was actually saying is that there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian, and communion or meeting together with other believers is essential to the faith.

Christianity is very social religion. Christians are not called to hide away in caves, they are called to be a part of society.

Take a look at the videos and you will change your mind. He makes it very clear what he is saying.
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/18/2015 10:35:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 10:19:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
I believe what he was actually saying is that there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian, and communion or meeting together with other believers is essential to the faith.

Christianity is very social religion. Christians are not called to hide away in caves, they are called to be a part of society.

The problem, an obvious one, is that Christians might still engage in religious get-togethers bypassing the Catholic church altogether. Christians would not need the Pope, the Curia, the Vatican, all the Ecclesiastical institutions, high, mid and low clergymen in order to incentivize and support each other in their faith.

His words seem to be centred around the idea of mediation, you know, his job. Without the alleged need for mediation, there would be no demand for the aforementioned cascade, pyramid of religious institutions of which he's the tip.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/18/2015 10:35:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 10:32:57 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:19:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
I believe what he was actually saying is that there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian, and communion or meeting together with other believers is essential to the faith.

Christianity is very social religion. Christians are not called to hide away in caves, they are called to be a part of society.

Take a look at the videos and you will change your mind. He makes it very clear what he is saying.

Would you mind posting a link to the video for the sake of the forum?
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
UniversalTheologian
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10/18/2015 10:46:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 10:35:19 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:19:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
I believe what he was actually saying is that there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian, and communion or meeting together with other believers is essential to the faith.

Christianity is very social religion. Christians are not called to hide away in caves, they are called to be a part of society.

The problem, an obvious one, is that Christians might still engage in religious get-togethers bypassing the Catholic church altogether. Christians would not need the Pope, the Curia, the Vatican, all the Ecclesiastical institutions, high, mid and low clergymen in order to incentivize and support each other in their faith.

His words seem to be centred around the idea of mediation, you know, his job. Without the alleged need for mediation, there would be no demand for the aforementioned cascade, pyramid of religious institutions of which he's the tip.

Certainly it would be reasonable to have this position. Catholic Priests are educated pretty thoroughly, and it is their job to perform this role.

I'd like to also call attention to the fact that when people commonly hear "Catholic Church", they think of The Vatican. This is not the true Catholic Church. "Catholic" means "universal" and "church" means "congregation" or gathering of people. It is important to note that the Eastern Church's full name is the "Orthodox Catholic Church"

There are many churches that claim to be Catholic, but they are all divisions. The True Catholic Church is non-denominational. God is the True Catholic Church. That said, people will always divide themselves. Ultimately, it doesn't change the fact that we are all in this together.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/18/2015 10:56:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 10:46:03 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:35:19 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:19:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
I believe what he was actually saying is that there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian, and communion or meeting together with other believers is essential to the faith.

Christianity is very social religion. Christians are not called to hide away in caves, they are called to be a part of society.

The problem, an obvious one, is that Christians might still engage in religious get-togethers bypassing the Catholic church altogether. Christians would not need the Pope, the Curia, the Vatican, all the Ecclesiastical institutions, high, mid and low clergymen in order to incentivize and support each other in their faith.

His words seem to be centred around the idea of mediation, you know, his job. Without the alleged need for mediation, there would be no demand for the aforementioned cascade, pyramid of religious institutions of which he's the tip.

Certainly it would be reasonable to have this position. Catholic Priests are educated pretty thoroughly, and it is their job to perform this role.

I'd like to also call attention to the fact that when people commonly hear "Catholic Church", they think of The Vatican. This is not the true Catholic Church. "Catholic" means "universal" and "church" means "congregation" or gathering of people. It is important to note that the Eastern Church's full name is the "Orthodox Catholic Church"

There are many churches that claim to be Catholic, but they are all divisions. The True Catholic Church is non-denominational. God is the True Catholic Church. That said, people will always divide themselves. Ultimately, it doesn't change the fact that we are all in this together.

I'd be surprised if you didn't make that plug.
No surprise there. I guess given your scanting success around here, you've opted for repetition in hopes of retention, if not adoption.

The point still stands though. The issue of communion cannot be the point of Pope Francis. Mediation is. No one necessarily needs the Roman Catholic Church to have Christian communion. Mediation, scripture official exegesis, official dogma, now all of those do render the institution indispensable.

It's like a brand of electric shavers proclaiming all men absolutely must shave.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/18/2015 11:06:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 10:56:51 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:46:03 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:35:19 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:19:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
I believe what he was actually saying is that there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian, and communion or meeting together with other believers is essential to the faith.

Christianity is very social religion. Christians are not called to hide away in caves, they are called to be a part of society.

The problem, an obvious one, is that Christians might still engage in religious get-togethers bypassing the Catholic church altogether. Christians would not need the Pope, the Curia, the Vatican, all the Ecclesiastical institutions, high, mid and low clergymen in order to incentivize and support each other in their faith.

His words seem to be centred around the idea of mediation, you know, his job. Without the alleged need for mediation, there would be no demand for the aforementioned cascade, pyramid of religious institutions of which he's the tip.

Certainly it would be reasonable to have this position. Catholic Priests are educated pretty thoroughly, and it is their job to perform this role.

I'd like to also call attention to the fact that when people commonly hear "Catholic Church", they think of The Vatican. This is not the true Catholic Church. "Catholic" means "universal" and "church" means "congregation" or gathering of people. It is important to note that the Eastern Church's full name is the "Orthodox Catholic Church"

There are many churches that claim to be Catholic, but they are all divisions. The True Catholic Church is non-denominational. God is the True Catholic Church. That said, people will always divide themselves. Ultimately, it doesn't change the fact that we are all in this together.

I'd be surprised if you didn't make that plug.
No surprise there. I guess given your scanting success around here, you've opted for repetition in hopes of retention, if not adoption.

The point still stands though. The issue of communion cannot be the point of Pope Francis. Mediation is. No one necessarily needs the Roman Catholic Church to have Christian communion. Mediation, scripture official exegesis, official dogma, now all of those do render the institution indispensable.

It's like a brand of electric shavers proclaiming all men absolutely must shave.

They serve their purpose. The Roman Catholics know what they are doing. They definitely work diligently to preserve an environment, and they are pretty strict with their priests about what it is they are supposed to say.

Relevant scripture from The Gospel according to Matthew....

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses" seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men"s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, "Rabbi, Rabbi." But you, do not be called "Rabbi"; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,609
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10/18/2015 11:37:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 11:06:06 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:56:51 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:46:03 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:35:19 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 10:19:33 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
I believe what he was actually saying is that there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian, and communion or meeting together with other believers is essential to the faith.

Christianity is very social religion. Christians are not called to hide away in caves, they are called to be a part of society.

The problem, an obvious one, is that Christians might still engage in religious get-togethers bypassing the Catholic church altogether. Christians would not need the Pope, the Curia, the Vatican, all the Ecclesiastical institutions, high, mid and low clergymen in order to incentivize and support each other in their faith.

His words seem to be centred around the idea of mediation, you know, his job. Without the alleged need for mediation, there would be no demand for the aforementioned cascade, pyramid of religious institutions of which he's the tip.

Certainly it would be reasonable to have this position. Catholic Priests are educated pretty thoroughly, and it is their job to perform this role.

I'd like to also call attention to the fact that when people commonly hear "Catholic Church", they think of The Vatican. This is not the true Catholic Church. "Catholic" means "universal" and "church" means "congregation" or gathering of people. It is important to note that the Eastern Church's full name is the "Orthodox Catholic Church"

There are many churches that claim to be Catholic, but they are all divisions. The True Catholic Church is non-denominational. God is the True Catholic Church. That said, people will always divide themselves. Ultimately, it doesn't change the fact that we are all in this together.

I'd be surprised if you didn't make that plug.
No surprise there. I guess given your scanting success around here, you've opted for repetition in hopes of retention, if not adoption.

The point still stands though. The issue of communion cannot be the point of Pope Francis. Mediation is. No one necessarily needs the Roman Catholic Church to have Christian communion. Mediation, scripture official exegesis, official dogma, now all of those do render the institution indispensable.

It's like a brand of electric shavers proclaiming all men absolutely must shave.

They serve their purpose. The Roman Catholics know what they are doing. They definitely work diligently to preserve an environment, and they are pretty strict with their priests about what it is they are supposed to say.

Relevant scripture from The Gospel according to Matthew....

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses" seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men"s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, "Rabbi, Rabbi." But you, do not be called "Rabbi"; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Please see one of many links, below. My belief is that the Catholic Church (specifically the Vatican), which does not represent all of Christianity may represent the consciousness of the anti Christ. Jesus was a rebel. He rebelled against the status quo. That's why they killed him. I don't believe that what Christianity is today is what he meant as an outcome from his teachings. The peace, love stuff is all good but his real message has a lot to do with what the Pope is saying. I believe that his message was that we are all one with the creator and that we have this sense of duality, which is really an illusion. The Pope confirms this duality by having the gall to say that the Catholic church or any church or religion is a go between between souls on the planet and God. Also, I believe Jesus is not God, not any more than any of us and he said it when he said" These things I do, you shall do even greater things" (paraphrasing). I liked this Pope and he said all the right things, but his true intentions are now coming to the surface. He does not represent Christ or God for that matter.
https://www.youtube.com...
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/18/2015 11:47:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah, he's saying what I thought he was originally.

The Roman Catholics do things the way they do for a reason, and it is pretty scary stuff to anyone who reads the bible.... But they have good reasons for doing the things they do.

Forgiving them would be the most Christian thing to do.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,609
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10/18/2015 11:52:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 11:47:44 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Yeah, he's saying what I thought he was originally.

The Roman Catholics do things the way they do for a reason, and it is pretty scary stuff to anyone who reads the bible.... But they have good reasons for doing the things they do.

Forgiving them would be the most Christian thing to do.

Their reasons are for control.
UniversalTheologian
Posts: 1,078
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10/18/2015 11:59:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 11:52:39 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/18/2015 11:47:44 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Yeah, he's saying what I thought he was originally.

The Roman Catholics do things the way they do for a reason, and it is pretty scary stuff to anyone who reads the bible.... But they have good reasons for doing the things they do.

Forgiving them would be the most Christian thing to do.

Their reasons are for control.
\
I do know one thing. Many of the best scholars of the faith are Catholic. They know what they are doing, whatever it is that they are doing.
"There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true." ~ Niels Bohr

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,609
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10/19/2015 12:09:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 11:59:45 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
At 10/18/2015 11:52:39 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/18/2015 11:47:44 PM, UniversalTheologian wrote:
Yeah, he's saying what I thought he was originally.

The Roman Catholics do things the way they do for a reason, and it is pretty scary stuff to anyone who reads the bible.... But they have good reasons for doing the things they do.

Forgiving them would be the most Christian thing to do.

Their reasons are for control.
\
I do know one thing. Many of the best scholars of the faith are Catholic. They know what they are doing, whatever it is that they are doing.

I can't accept what they tell us about Jesus' real message. They are lying to us.
dsjpk5
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10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
lotsoffun
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10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.
dsjpk5
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10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
lotsoffun
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10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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10/19/2015 3:03:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

Jesus established one Church for the salvation of souls. If the Catholic Church is the Church Christ established (which I believe it is) then the Pope is completely correct.
dsjpk5
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10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
lotsoffun
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10/19/2015 8:56:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Catholic church makes this claim. They are corrupt. They are liars.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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10/19/2015 9:04:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 8:56:55 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Catholic church makes this claim. They are corrupt. They are liars.

Any proof that they lie about being the Church Christ founded?
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,609
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10/19/2015 9:23:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 9:04:44 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/19/2015 8:56:55 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Catholic church makes this claim. They are corrupt. They are liars.

Any proof that they lie about being the Church Christ founded?

The Catholic church did not exist in the time of Jesus. Period. This church is responsible for so much pain in the world. The inquisitions are a good example. I contend that no church can tell me or anyone else that they are intermediates between me and my Creator or any relationship I might want to have with an ascended master such as Jesus. The Catholic Church exists for power.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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10/19/2015 10:11:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 9:23:41 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:04:44 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/19/2015 8:56:55 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Catholic church makes this claim. They are corrupt. They are liars.

Any proof that they lie about being the Church Christ founded?

The Catholic church did not exist in the time of Jesus. Period.

Of course not. The Church started on Pentecost with the descent of the Holy Spirit.

This church is responsible for so much pain in the world. The inquisitions are a good example.

Funny, none of the Church's nor Jesus' claims were that the people in his Church became impeccable. If this is your standard, please show me a church where members never sin. I'll wait.

I contend that no church can tell me or anyone else that they are intermediates between me and my Creator or any relationship I might want to have with an ascended master such as Jesus.

On what basis? Jesus didn't say pray and your sins are forgiven. He told the Apostles those whose sins you forgive are forgiven and whose you retain are retained. Do you claim the ability to retain sins?

The Catholic Church exists for power.

On the contrary. The Church has power because of what it is and who it presents to the world.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,609
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10/19/2015 10:54:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 10:11:29 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:23:41 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:04:44 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/19/2015 8:56:55 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Catholic church makes this claim. They are corrupt. They are liars.

Any proof that they lie about being the Church Christ founded?

The Catholic church did not exist in the time of Jesus. Period.

Of course not. The Church started on Pentecost with the descent of the Holy Spirit.

This church is responsible for so much pain in the world. The inquisitions are a good example.

Funny, none of the Church's nor Jesus' claims were that the people in his Church became impeccable. If this is your standard, please show me a church where members never sin. I'll wait.

I contend that no church can tell me or anyone else that they are intermediates between me and my Creator or any relationship I might want to have with an ascended master such as Jesus.

On what basis? Jesus didn't say pray and your sins are forgiven. He told the Apostles those whose sins you forgive are forgiven and whose you retain are retained. Do you claim the ability to retain sins?

The Catholic Church exists for power.

On the contrary. The Church has power because of what it is and who it presents to the world.

I don't think that Jesus, based on his teachings is too happy with the inquisitions. You obviously are Catholic. You believe what they tell you. The Bible is missing many books. Most of Jesus' life is missing from the Bible. It is not the end all be all souce of information. Religious types think that God stopped talking or communicating with people after their prophets died or their holy books were written, Everything you claim is told to you by your religion. I don't buy it. For instance. When Jesus said " No one comes to the Father but through me" Born agains and probably Catholics interpret that as...you give your life to Jesus and you are saved. Many others who use discernment and think for themselves believe it means....Jesus is the personification of the Christ Consciousness so he meant that because we all posses the Christ Consciousness within us, it is through that which we can return to our source. Don't even bother asking me for sources because you are stuck in your Catholic dogma and it would be wasteful to give you any more info. If you are really on a path, you will seek it out. Seek and ye shall find. I'm not going to debate you because you are stuck. Catholics are sheep. Best of luck.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,609
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10/19/2015 11:44:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I contend that no church can tell me or anyone else that they are intermediates between me and my Creator or any relationship I might want to have with an ascended master such as Jesus.

On what basis? Jesus didn't say pray and your sins are forgiven. He told the Apostles those whose sins you forgive are forgiven and whose you retain are retained. Do you claim the ability to retain sins?


I claim dominion over myself and I'm not a God damned Catholic. I think for myself and I don't recognize The premise of Christianity that Jesus was or is the son of God any more than the rest of us. Your church is full of crap. I speak directly to God because we are all part of God. Your Church would have you believe this is not so. We live in the illusion of duality. All is one.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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10/20/2015 1:29:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 8:56:55 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Catholic church makes this claim. They are corrupt. They are liars.

I suppose you think the encyclopedia Britannica is owned by the Catholic Church:

http://www.britannica.com...
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,609
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10/20/2015 1:49:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 1:29:24 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 8:56:55 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Catholic church makes this claim. They are corrupt. They are liars.


I suppose you think the encyclopedia Britannica is owned by the Catholic Church:

http://www.britannica.com...

After what I've said, do you really believe that I am swayed by this? Your church is a lie. Every part of my being says so. I don't even recognize Jesus as the only son of God. He said "These things (miracles) I do, you shall do even greater". He was trying to tell us about our own divinity. We live in an illusion of duality. The Catholic Church tries to keep us from understanding our oneness with God. Therefor it is an instrument of the fallen beings. I don't expect you to understand this because your a good catholic and you don't question, right?
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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10/20/2015 2:13:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 1:49:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/20/2015 1:29:24 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 8:56:55 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:30:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:53:16 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 9:21:51 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:00:00 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 10/19/2015 2:40:11 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 10/18/2015 8:55:45 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
The Pope stated that it is dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus without the Catholic Church as the intermediary. I would like to hear opinions on this please. Thanks.

I would say it's dangerous ONLY if you try to have a relationship with Jesus without having a relationship with His body, the Church. You can't separate the head from the body.

The Catholic church founded itself and declared itself the earthly representatives of God. Jesus didn't create the church or the Christian religion as it stands.

I would have to disagree with your notion. The Bible seems to say otherwise.

Christiandom didn't exist until after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church much later. I'll have to disagree with you.

History says otherwise:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Catholic church makes this claim. They are corrupt. They are liars.


I suppose you think the encyclopedia Britannica is owned by the Catholic Church:

http://www.britannica.com...

After what I've said, do you really believe that I am swayed by this?

Not persuaded by unbiased evidence? Ok, if you insist on burying your head in the sand, that's your choice.

Your church is a lie.

Got evidence?

every part of my being says so. I don't even recognize Jesus as the only son of God. He said "These things (miracles) I do, you shall do even greater". He was trying to tell us about our own divinity.

Or He was saying the number of good things we'll do will outnumber the ones He did. He didn't say miracles. He said works.

We live in an illusion of duality. The Catholic Church tries to keep us from understanding our oneness with God. Therefor it is an instrument of the fallen beings. I don't expect you to understand this because your a good catholic and you don't question, right?

I also don't make things up out of thin air.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax