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Christians, you're going to hell

smelisox
Posts: 850
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10/21/2015 4:17:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The bible states:

-Cutting your hair? A sin, straight to hell
-Raping virgins? It's fine as long as you marry her after
-People born out of wedlock can't enter a church
-If you love your family members more than Jesus, you go to hell
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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10/21/2015 4:23:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/21/2015 4:17:25 PM, smelisox wrote:
The bible states:

-Cutting your hair? A sin, straight to hell
-Raping virgins? It's fine as long as you marry her after
-People born out of wedlock can't enter a church
-If you love your family members more than Jesus, you go to hell

Very sick!
smelisox
Posts: 850
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10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Inb4"youcaninterpretitdifferently :("

No you can't, it's explicitly stated that it's not.

Inb4"prooforitaintreal :("

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.

(King James Bible)
Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

READ THE BIBLE!

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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10/22/2015 1:41:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

I used to use this verse against Christians too. But then I saw that this whole chapter, which it is plucked from, is presenting the rules of worship. So it is very much pulled out of its context, yeah.


Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

True, and also a mistake I used to do when debating with Christians.

However there is still one verse in the New Testament which I guess very few Christians follow:

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.

The counter-arguments against this one is often "well you have to read that from a historical perspective". But if so, then they should just as well read all verses from that perspective. For example, many Christians use anti-homosexual verses in the Bible, without reflecting upon them from a historical perspective.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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10/22/2015 5:15:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:
Inb4"youcaninterpretitdifferently :("

No you can't, it's explicitly stated that it's not.

Inb4"prooforitaintreal :("

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.

(King James Bible)
Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.


READ THE BIBLE!

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.

What is a christian? Jesus never mentioned theword.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/22/2015 7:17:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/22/2015 1:41:21 PM, Jovian wrote:

However there is still one verse in the New Testament which I guess very few Christians follow:

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.

The counter-arguments against this one is often "well you have to read that from a historical perspective". But if so, then they should just as well read all verses from that perspective. For example, many Christians use anti-homosexual verses in the Bible, without reflecting upon them from a historical perspective.
There are many verses that Christians choose not to follow, but you rightly mention this is one.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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10/22/2015 10:08:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/22/2015 7:17:55 PM, tstor wrote:
At 10/22/2015 1:41:21 PM, Jovian wrote:

However there is still one verse in the New Testament which I guess very few Christians follow:

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.

The counter-arguments against this one is often "well you have to read that from a historical perspective". But if so, then they should just as well read all verses from that perspective. For example, many Christians use anti-homosexual verses in the Bible, without reflecting upon them from a historical perspective.
There are many verses that Christians choose not to follow, but you rightly mention this is one.

Interesting response. Yeah I guess, could you show some more of them? And also, do you and the adherents of your Christian denomination follow these verses who are unfollowed by the majority of Christians?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,118
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10/22/2015 10:15:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/21/2015 4:17:25 PM, smelisox wrote:
The bible states:

-Cutting your hair? A sin, straight to hell
-Raping virgins? It's fine as long as you marry her after
-People born out of wedlock can't enter a church
-If you love your family members more than Jesus, you go to hell

romans 8 vs 1..................
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/22/2015 10:26:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/22/2015 10:08:25 PM, Jovian wrote:

Interesting response. Yeah I guess, could you show some more of them? And also, do you and the adherents of your Christian denomination follow these verses who are unfollowed by the majority of Christians?
Sure. You will notice that many Christians celebrate Christmas and Easter as religious holidays despite their obvious pagan roots and the Bible never mentioning a celebration of Jesus' birthday or resurrection. In fact, there are documents to show that early Christians did not celebrate these occasions.

Many Christians readily accept the trinity despite there being no justification for it. In fact, there are even Bible verses that directly contradict the teaching of the trinity. Consider John 14:28:
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (NIV)

Many Christians accept the teaching of an eternal and tormenting hellfire despite that teaching not being in the Bible. Consider Ecclesiastes 9:10:
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." (NIV)

There are many others, but those are just a few that come to mind without referencing my notes. As for my denomination, I have none. I am currently non-denominational for the most part. I identify as a Christian Witness of Jah, but that is essentially a non-denom Christian who heavily relies on JW teachings.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
smelisox
Posts: 850
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10/23/2015 3:53:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Old covenant, no longer applicable"

You're literally not allowed to do that. Are you saying God is wrong? You're defying God.

Hell for you, zealot.
Isaiah58
Posts: 24
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11/7/2015 2:00:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 3:53:49 PM, smelisox wrote:
"Old covenant, no longer applicable"

You're literally not allowed to do that. Are you saying God is wrong? You're defying God.

Hell for you, zealot.

Just to clarify a few things from this thread as I see this often as a misunderstanding in debates. As you study the Holiness Code in Leviticus, you'll notice that there are three distinct categories of laws. There are ceremonial laws, intended to set the nation apart as holy, that expired with the priestly work of Christ. Civil law, which ended with the Jewish civil government, and Moral law, which is unending because is it based on the character of God. These are reasoned by looking at phrases such as "spewed out the nations before you" and "speak to the sons of Israel" and "neither the alien nor the native."

Also, there seems to be a theme running through the thread confusing the actual theology and the way that some people fail to live it out.

In reference to the Trinity and the single quote that attempts to disprove the Trinity. If you take that piece in context, why would Jesus tell his disciples to rejoice if He is going to see a being that is "greater" in nature than He? The meaning here is that they should rejoice because He is going to see the Father who is in greater "position" than He. I'm not sure how tstor arrived at this conclusion, but I would assume a presupposition brought to the table by such a strong JW influence. That's a pretty common mistake that folks make when they confuse difference in purpose with an inferiority in nature when dealing with the persons of the Trinity. I hope that some of this is helpful and appreciate the dialogue...
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/7/2015 2:25:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/7/2015 2:29:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
by the way, the 10 commandments and tithing are in the old testament
do you ignore them as well?
what method do you use to determine which verses to follow,
and which verse to ignore?
morals don't change, what was right yesterday, will be right tommorow
an all knowing god should have known that
Isaiah58
Posts: 24
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11/7/2015 3:12:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 2:29:23 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
by the way, the 10 commandments and tithing are in the old testament
do you ignore them as well?
what method do you use to determine which verses to follow,
and which verse to ignore?
morals don't change, what was right yesterday, will be right tommorow
an all knowing god should have known that

I'm really intrigued by a couple of things in this post...I'm a Christian. I tithe. I do my best to not only follow the ten commandments, but to glorify God by living out my faith. I summarized earlier in the post about how to distinguish between civil, ceremonial, and moral law in the Levitical texts. What interests me is when you say that morals don't change. I'm making the assumption that you're not a Christian, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals? I ask this question out of a sincere desire to understand. I recently finished an ongoing debate with a pastor that held a "trajectory" theory about scripture...
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/7/2015 3:54:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 3:12:58 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 2:29:23 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
by the way, the 10 commandments and tithing are in the old testament
do you ignore them as well?
what method do you use to determine which verses to follow,
and which verse to ignore?
morals don't change, what was right yesterday, will be right tommorow
an all knowing god should have known that

I'm really intrigued by a couple of things in this post...I'm a Christian. I tithe. I do my best to not only follow the ten commandments, but to glorify God by living out my faith. I summarized earlier in the post about how to distinguish between civil, ceremonial, and moral law in the Levitical texts. What interests me is when you say that morals don't change. I'm making the assumption that you're not a Christian, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals? I ask this question out of a sincere desire to understand. I recently finished an ongoing debate with a pastor that held a "trajectory" theory about scripture...

tell me, what good is having morals?
Isaiah58
Posts: 24
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11/7/2015 4:16:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 3:54:50 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 11/7/2015 3:12:58 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 2:29:23 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
by the way, the 10 commandments and tithing are in the old testament
do you ignore them as well?
what method do you use to determine which verses to follow,
and which verse to ignore?
morals don't change, what was right yesterday, will be right tommorow
an all knowing god should have known that

I'm really intrigued by a couple of things in this post...I'm a Christian. I tithe. I do my best to not only follow the ten commandments, but to glorify God by living out my faith. I summarized earlier in the post about how to distinguish between civil, ceremonial, and moral law in the Levitical texts. What interests me is when you say that morals don't change. I'm making the assumption that you're not a Christian, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals? I ask this question out of a sincere desire to understand. I recently finished an ongoing debate with a pastor that held a "trajectory" theory about scripture...

tell me, what good is having morals?

sure, but i really would like to hear your answer to my question. As a Christian, my morals are aligned with God's expectations of me. The day I became a Christian, all of my definitions changed. I now have a clear understanding of success, love, fun, and what it means to be a father. These concepts are no longer based on my own desires, or the pressures of others, but on the desires of the God that made me for a purpose. I now know how to decide whether or not I had a "good" day. Did I try to glorify God with all that I am? Even if everything seemed to go "wrong", if I did my best for God, then the day was a success. Doing what I was designed to do, glorifying God, brings me a peace that cannot be explained, only felt.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/7/2015 5:04:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 4:16:19 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 3:54:50 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 11/7/2015 3:12:58 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 2:29:23 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
by the way, the 10 commandments and tithing are in the old testament
do you ignore them as well?
what method do you use to determine which verses to follow,
and which verse to ignore?
morals don't change, what was right yesterday, will be right tommorow
an all knowing god should have known that

I'm really intrigued by a couple of things in this post...I'm a Christian. I tithe. I do my best to not only follow the ten commandments, but to glorify God by living out my faith. I summarized earlier in the post about how to distinguish between civil, ceremonial, and moral law in the Levitical texts. What interests me is when you say that morals don't change. I'm making the assumption that you're not a Christian, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals? I ask this question out of a sincere desire to understand. I recently finished an ongoing debate with a pastor that held a "trajectory" theory about scripture...

tell me, what good is having morals?

sure, but i really would like to hear your answer to my question. As a Christian, my morals are aligned with God's expectations of me. The day I became a Christian, all of my definitions changed. I now have a clear understanding of success, love, fun, and what it means to be a father. These concepts are no longer based on my own desires, or the pressures of others, but on the desires of the God that made me for a purpose. I now know how to decide whether or not I had a "good" day. Did I try to glorify God with all that I am? Even if everything seemed to go "wrong", if I did my best for God, then the day was a success. Doing what I was designed to do, glorifying God, brings me a peace that cannot be explained, only felt.

ok, your question was, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals?
that is really simple, my morals evolve as i get more information
so i don't have unchanging morals

tell me, what good is having morals?
describe a society that didn't have any morals at all
Isaiah58
Posts: 24
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11/8/2015 3:09:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 5:04:37 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:16:19 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 3:54:50 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 11/7/2015 3:12:58 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 2:29:23 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
by the way, the 10 commandments and tithing are in the old testament
do you ignore them as well?
what method do you use to determine which verses to follow,
and which verse to ignore?
morals don't change, what was right yesterday, will be right tommorow
an all knowing god should have known that

I'm really intrigued by a couple of things in this post...I'm a Christian. I tithe. I do my best to not only follow the ten commandments, but to glorify God by living out my faith. I summarized earlier in the post about how to distinguish between civil, ceremonial, and moral law in the Levitical texts. What interests me is when you say that morals don't change. I'm making the assumption that you're not a Christian, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals? I ask this question out of a sincere desire to understand. I recently finished an ongoing debate with a pastor that held a "trajectory" theory about scripture...

tell me, what good is having morals?

sure, but i really would like to hear your answer to my question. As a Christian, my morals are aligned with God's expectations of me. The day I became a Christian, all of my definitions changed. I now have a clear understanding of success, love, fun, and what it means to be a father. These concepts are no longer based on my own desires, or the pressures of others, but on the desires of the God that made me for a purpose. I now know how to decide whether or not I had a "good" day. Did I try to glorify God with all that I am? Even if everything seemed to go "wrong", if I did my best for God, then the day was a success. Doing what I was designed to do, glorifying God, brings me a peace that cannot be explained, only felt.

ok, your question was, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals?
that is really simple, my morals evolve as i get more information
so i don't have unchanging morals

tell me, what good is having morals?
describe a society that didn't have any morals at all

Oh, I get it. Sorry, I misread your last comment. When you said that about morals don't change, you were referring to the Christian view, correct? I thought you were speaking of yourself.

So, I'm trying to follow you on the changing morals concept. You say that they evolve as you get more information. So, if you are saying that your ideas of right and wrong have changed as you have discovered things, then I can agree with that. I think that our disagreement comes from the basis, or anchor, of where our right and wrong come from. Mine, obviously, is the Christian Bible. With your changing morals, how would you find your appropriate response to an issue? just use slavery as an example...

Morals bring structure/security through expectation of behavior in a society. I'm trying to think of a society that doesn't have morals, but I don't really know if that can be answered. Any sentient creatures are going to build a culture with certain expectations/morals. good questions, though...
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/8/2015 9:34:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/8/2015 3:09:43 PM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 5:04:37 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:16:19 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 3:54:50 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 11/7/2015 3:12:58 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
At 11/7/2015 2:29:23 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/22/2015 1:22:05 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/21/2015 4:26:56 PM, smelisox wrote:

Corinthians 11:6
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
This verse made me stumble when I first came across it in my studies. Through some research, I found that the JWs made a great article for explaining it:
http://wol.jw.org...

Leviticus 19:27
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.


Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
by the way, the 10 commandments and tithing are in the old testament
do you ignore them as well?
what method do you use to determine which verses to follow,
and which verse to ignore?
morals don't change, what was right yesterday, will be right tommorow
an all knowing god should have known that

I'm really intrigued by a couple of things in this post...I'm a Christian. I tithe. I do my best to not only follow the ten commandments, but to glorify God by living out my faith. I summarized earlier in the post about how to distinguish between civil, ceremonial, and moral law in the Levitical texts. What interests me is when you say that morals don't change. I'm making the assumption that you're not a Christian, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals? I ask this question out of a sincere desire to understand. I recently finished an ongoing debate with a pastor that held a "trajectory" theory about scripture...

tell me, what good is having morals?

sure, but i really would like to hear your answer to my question. As a Christian, my morals are aligned with God's expectations of me. The day I became a Christian, all of my definitions changed. I now have a clear understanding of success, love, fun, and what it means to be a father. These concepts are no longer based on my own desires, or the pressures of others, but on the desires of the God that made me for a purpose. I now know how to decide whether or not I had a "good" day. Did I try to glorify God with all that I am? Even if everything seemed to go "wrong", if I did my best for God, then the day was a success. Doing what I was designed to do, glorifying God, brings me a peace that cannot be explained, only felt.

ok, your question was, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals?
that is really simple, my morals evolve as i get more information
so i don't have unchanging morals

tell me, what good is having morals?
describe a society that didn't have any morals at all

Oh, I get it. Sorry, I misread your last comment. When you said that about morals don't change, you were referring to the Christian view, correct? I thought you were speaking of yourself.

So, I'm trying to follow you on the changing morals concept. You say that they evolve as you get more information. So, if you are saying that your ideas of right and wrong have changed as you have discovered things, then I can agree with that. I think that our disagreement comes from the basis, or anchor, of where our right and wrong come from. Mine, obviously, is the Christian Bible. With your changing morals, how would you find your appropriate response to an issue? just use slavery as an example...

Morals bring structure/security through expectation of behavior in a society. I'm trying to think of a society that doesn't have morals, but I don't really know if that can be answered. Any sentient creatures are going to build a culture with certain expectations/morals. good questions, though...

nowhere in that statement mentions anything about disappointing or disobeying a deity.

when the bible was written it was morally acceptable to
- kill children and infants from other societies - numbers 31:15-18
-force rape victims to marry their rapist - deuteronomy 22:28-29
-kill a rape victim if she doesn't marry her rapist - leviticus 21:13
-kill gays - leviticus 20:13
-kill people from other religions - 2 Chronicles 15:12-13
-beat servants until they die - exodus 21:20-21

as societies and people gain new information then what is morally acceptable will evolve, dragging religions kicking and screaming behind us.
an all knowing god should know what is morally right
there are pages and pages of A begat B, B begat C, C begat D
but not a single verse saying "thou shalt not own people as property"

in fact the bible says where to buy slaves, how much to pay for slaves, etc.
jesus even mentions that servants deserve to be beaten luke 12:47-48
maybe someday you will actually read the bible, and find out how evil and sadistic your god really is
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/8/2015 9:43:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/23/2015 3:53:49 PM, smelisox wrote:
"Old covenant, no longer applicable"

You're literally not allowed to do that. Are you saying God is wrong? You're defying God.

Hell for you, zealot.

You are running into the new covenant. This is annoying from Christians every damn time, but basically there are a number of verses that say, in effect, all those old rules are out the door. Don't worry about them, we have this "new covenant" with Jesus.
Isaiah58
Posts: 24
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11/9/2015 3:13:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Leviticus 19:28
Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

Deuteronomy 22:28
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Old covenant, no longer applicable.

READ THE BIBLE!
I suggest you do the same.

Ever been to a hairdresser? Hell. You're not a christian. Tattoos? Hell, not a christian.

Women with uncovered hair? Hell. Not a christian.
Unless you can provide evidence that Jesus was lying when he said things such as the following verses, then you have no case:
"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:4)

'"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.'" (Matthew 5:17)

i love reading the bible, it's a comedy full of god's mistakes
if you don't obey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children 2 kings 8:26
by the way, the 10 commandments and tithing are in the old testament
do you ignore them as well?
what method do you use to determine which verses to follow,
and which verse to ignore?
morals don't change, what was right yesterday, will be right tommorow
an all knowing god should have known that

I'm really intrigued by a couple of things in this post...I'm a Christian. I tithe. I do my best to not only follow the ten commandments, but to glorify God by living out my faith. I summarized earlier in the post about how to distinguish between civil, ceremonial, and moral law in the Levitical texts. What interests me is when you say that morals don't change. I'm making the assumption that you're not a Christian, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals? I ask this question out of a sincere desire to understand. I recently finished an ongoing debate with a pastor that held a "trajectory" theory about scripture...

tell me, what good is having morals?

sure, but i really would like to hear your answer to my question. As a Christian, my morals are aligned with God's expectations of me. The day I became a Christian, all of my definitions changed. I now have a clear understanding of success, love, fun, and what it means to be a father. These concepts are no longer based on my own desires, or the pressures of others, but on the desires of the God that made me for a purpose. I now know how to decide whether or not I had a "good" day. Did I try to glorify God with all that I am? Even if everything seemed to go "wrong", if I did my best for God, then the day was a success. Doing what I was designed to do, glorifying God, brings me a peace that cannot be explained, only felt.

ok, your question was, so what do you use as a basis for your unchanging morals?
that is really simple, my morals evolve as i get more information
so i don't have unchanging morals

tell me, what good is having morals?
describe a society that didn't have any morals at all

Oh, I get it. Sorry, I misread your last comment. When you said that about morals don't change, you were referring to the Christian view, correct? I thought you were speaking of yourself.

So, I'm trying to follow you on the changing morals concept. You say that they evolve as you get more information. So, if you are saying that your ideas of right and wrong have changed as you have discovered things, then I can agree with that. I think that our disagreement comes from the basis, or anchor, of where our right and wrong come from. Mine, obviously, is the Christian Bible. With your changing morals, how would you find your appropriate response to an issue? just use slavery as an example...

Morals bring structure/security through expectation of behavior in a society. I'm trying to think of a society that doesn't have morals, but I don't really know if that can be answered. Any sentient creatures are going to build a culture with certain expectations/morals. good questions, though...

nowhere in that statement mentions anything about disappointing or disobeying a deity.
Sorry, I even looked over the previous threads, and I still can't figure out what this refers to...

when the bible was written it was morally acceptable to
as I'm sure you know, the Bible was written over a few thousand years, just pointing it out cause I'm gonna bring it up again
- kill children and infants from other societies - numbers 31:15-18
-force rape victims to marry their rapist - deuteronomy 22:28-29
-kill a rape victim if she doesn't marry her rapist - leviticus 21:13
-kill gays - leviticus 20:13
-kill people from other religions - 2 Chronicles 15:12-13
-beat servants until they die - exodus 21:20-21
You left out the part where God kills all the firstborn of Egypt...fact is, God did a lot of stone cold killing in the Old Testament through action and decree...many times to show that he was God. Bottom line, God is God. I think what you're talking about here is a "trajectory hermeneutic." The Old Testament law was given to point out our brokenness and separation from what God wants for us and to show us that we needed salvation.

as societies and people gain new information then what is morally acceptable will evolve, dragging religions kicking and screaming behind us.
I still don't understand this statement "as we gain new information." What information? I am literally begging you to tell me your worldview and give you a fair shot at explaining it to me...
an all knowing god should know what is morally right
This is actually a very funny statement...You are saying that and "all knowing" God should know what is morally right, and you are using your idea of right and wrong as the basis for this statement. An all knowing God DOES know what it right and wrong, but your real issue is that you don't believe that God is who He says He is.
there are pages and pages of A begat B, B begat C, C begat D
but not a single verse saying "thou shalt not own people as property"
in fact the bible says where to buy slaves, how much to pay for slaves, etc.
jesus even mentions that servants deserve to be beaten luke 12:47-48
If you look at it pancanonically, it's clear that the Bible does not condone slavery. This is a parable from Jesus, not an endorsement. But, if you need a scripture ,"treat others as you would like to be treated." Luke 6:31
maybe someday you will actually read the bible, and find out how evil and sadistic your god really is
This is actually the second time today that someone on debate.org had used an ad hominem argument and accused me of not reading the Bible... I have read the Bible multiple times over 18 yrs of study. Evil is actually a very strong word that, in its earliest forms, means the absence of the ability to do any good. So, if you like the fact that you were actually created, then calling God evil is a bold statement. My God is not sadistic. The potter can do as he pleases with the clay. I am still very interested in hearing about your worldview and how you decide what is right and wrong. I appreciate the dialogue...
bulproof
Posts: 25,309
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11/9/2015 4:57:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 3:13:46 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
The potter can do as he pleases with the clay.
When I first read this, half a century ago, I thought it abjectly stupid.
Unfortunately those incapable of independent thought find it profound.
What conversations have you conducted with a lump of clay?
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/9/2015 7:15:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 3:13:46 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:

Morals bring structure/security through expectation of behavior in a society. I'm trying to think of a society that doesn't have morals, but I don't really know if that can be answered. Any sentient creatures are going to build a culture with certain expectations/morals.

if a god is required to have morals, then why didn't you mention anything about disappointing or disobeying a deity?

when the bible was written it was morally acceptable to
- kill children and infants from other societies - numbers 31:15-18
-force rape victims to marry their rapist - deuteronomy 22:28-29
-kill a rape victim if she doesn't marry her rapist - leviticus 21:13
-kill gays - leviticus 20:13
-kill people from other religions - 2 Chronicles 15:12-13
-beat servants until they die - exodus 21:20-21

didn't moses give israel a list of reasons to kill people?
if it was moral to kill someone for being gay before, then it should be moral to kill someone for being gay today.
so why doesn't your church go around killing gays? did your god change it's mind and being gay is no longer an abomination deserving of the death penalty?

as societies and people gain new information then what is morally acceptable will evolve, dragging religions kicking and screaming behind us.

I still don't understand this statement "as we gain new information." What information? I am literally begging you to tell me your worldview and give you a fair shot at explaining it to me...

do you know everything there is to know about everything is to know about?
does your community know everything there is to know about everything is to know about?
does your country know everything there is to know about everything is to know about?

do we not gain new information on a daily basis?
when i was i child i heard horror stories of the slippery slope that would be inevitable after gays got the right to marry. from pedophilia being legalized to bestiality and polygamy being legalized very soon after.

society has evolved and no longer kills gays for coming out of the closet.
that is the "new information" that i am referring to

maybe someday you will actually read the bible, and find out how evil and sadistic your god really is

This is actually the second time today that someone on debate.org had used an ad hominem argument and accused me of not reading the Bible... I have read the Bible multiple times over 18 yrs of study. Evil is actually a very strong word that, in its earliest forms, means the absence of the ability to do any good. So, if you like the fact that you were actually created, then calling God evil is a bold statement. My God is not sadistic. The potter can do as he pleases with the clay. I am still very interested in hearing about your worldview and how you decide what is right and wrong. I appreciate the dialogue...

explain why you think that statement was an ad hominem argument?
2 kings 6:28 if you disobey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children.
if you say that is good, loving and merciful, then i'm sorry that your parents screwed you up that badly.

how do i decide what is right and wrong?
it's fairly simple, life is generally better than death, pleasure is generally better than pain, and health is generally better than sickness.
didn't you ever learn how to make friends and get along with other people?
Isaiah58
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11/10/2015 12:08:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 7:15:33 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 11/9/2015 3:13:46 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:

Morals bring structure/security through expectation of behavior in a society. I'm trying to think of a society that doesn't have morals, but I don't really know if that can be answered. Any sentient creatures are going to build a culture with certain expectations/morals.

if a god is required to have morals, then why didn't you mention anything about disappointing or disobeying a deity?
I guess you can use the word "required" here, but I would think of it in the following way. In my Christian worldview, God, the creator, is eternal and omniscient. He created us for a purpose, and He knows more than I do. The only way that my God is "required" to have morals is by His nature. Like when the Bible says God is love, it is basically saying that God defines what love is, not the distorted view of love/unconditional acceptance of everything type of love perceived today...As far a disappointing my deity, I do it every day, and that is why I needed the sacrifice of Jesus for me to have a connection to God. God required a blood sacrifice. And again, God is God.

when the bible was written it was morally acceptable to
- kill children and infants from other societies - numbers 31:15-18
-force rape victims to marry their rapist - deuteronomy 22:28-29
-kill a rape victim if she doesn't marry her rapist - leviticus 21:13
-kill gays - leviticus 20:13
-kill people from other religions - 2 Chronicles 15:12-13
-beat servants until they die - exodus 21:20-21

didn't moses give israel a list of reasons to kill people?
if it was moral to kill someone for being gay before, then it should be moral to kill someone for being gay today.
so why doesn't your church go around killing gays? did your god change it's mind and being gay is no longer an abomination deserving of the death penalty?
Putting the whole discussion of whether someone is born gay aside, let's look at it this way. Practicing homosexuality was and will always be an abomination because of the creative decree and the word of God because God is eternal and again, knows more than me. The difference is that the sacrifice of Christ takes me from enforcing the law to loving someone and doing my best to explain the gospel to them. Unbelievers will be punished, but not my me.

as societies and people gain new information then what is morally acceptable will evolve, dragging religions kicking and screaming behind us.

I still don't understand this statement "as we gain new information." What information? I am literally begging you to tell me your worldview and give you a fair shot at explaining it to me...

do you know everything there is to know about everything is to know about?
does your community know everything there is to know about everything is to know about?
does your country know everything there is to know about everything is to know about?

do we not gain new information on a daily basis?
when i was i child i heard horror stories of the slippery slope that would be inevitable after gays got the right to marry. from pedophilia being legalized to bestiality and polygamy being legalized very soon after.

society has evolved and no longer kills gays for coming out of the closet.
that is the "new information" that i am referring to

I do not know everything there is to know about everything, but my God does. He spoke into humanity with the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles. His eternal nature and omniscience are the anchor for any true knowledge.
Again, you used the term "evolved" and new information. So, is the criteria for the correct information is that it is the most recent? At one point in time, condoning slavery was the "new information" because it served the south's economic needs. Is it 'evolved" because it is the most accepting of everyone? You are still discriminating against polygamists, pedophiles, etc. What is the criteria that makes the "new information" better than the old information?

maybe someday you will actually read the bible, and find out how evil and sadistic your god really is

This is actually the second time today that someone on debate.org had used an ad hominem argument and accused me of not reading the Bible... I have read the Bible multiple times over 18 yrs of study. Evil is actually a very strong word that, in its earliest forms, means the absence of the ability to do any good. So, if you like the fact that you were actually created, then calling God evil is a bold statement. My God is not sadistic. The potter can do as he pleases with the clay. I am still very interested in hearing about your worldview and how you decide what is right and wrong. I appreciate the dialogue...

explain why you think that statement was an ad hominem argument?
2 kings 6:28 if you disobey god, then god may starve you until you eat your children.
if you say that is good, loving and merciful, then i'm sorry that your parents screwed you up that badly.
It was an ad hominem argument because you accused me of being a Christian that had not read the Bible, and you followed it up with a comment that my parents screwed me up...

how do i decide what is right and wrong?
it's fairly simple, life is generally better than death, pleasure is generally better than pain, and health is generally better than sickness.
didn't you ever learn how to make friends and get along with other people?
I will try to make this statement as articulate as possible. I have a deep love for people, including people that I do not agree with. Because I love people so much, I would never want to see people harmed or in pain. It is exactly this desire that drives me to tell people about the gospel. I have independently studied scripture, philosophy, and critical reasoning for many years. I have found that the more deeply I dig into the word of God, the more I find it to be consistent, coherent, and true. To give an example, I have debated with family members that say that I would change my feelings about homosexuality if I had a child that was a homosexual. I disagreed. I would even make the statement that I love their children more than they do. Even though i am calling them to deny themselves, I am bringing them into the truth and giving them a chance to fulfill their created purpose of glorify the God that made them.

I can't help but feel that you feel animosity towards me, but just know that I have none towards you, and again, I appreciate the dialogue...
bulproof
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11/10/2015 1:23:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 12:08:12 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
fulfill their created purpose of glorify the God that made them.
What sort of god is so narcissistic that he would create 100 billion and counting people whose sole purpose is to glorify it?
It doesn't sound like a god.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/10/2015 1:24:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 12:08:12 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
As far a disappointing my deity, I do it every day, and that is why I needed the sacrifice of Jesus for me to have a connection to God. God required a blood sacrifice. And again, God is God.

so if you believe that jesus was sinless, then what did jesus have that you don't have?
why don't you pray that god gives you the strength to be sinless as well?
i do so enjoy that you ignore how stupid your god is.
the only way god could forgive you, is to provide a loop hole in the rules that god created, all of which your god knew before god even made the rules.
HILARIOUS

Practicing homosexuality was and will always be an abomination because of the creative decree and the word of God because God is eternal and again, knows more than me. The difference is that the sacrifice of Christ takes me from enforcing the law to loving someone and doing my best to explain the gospel to them. Unbelievers will be punished, but not my me.

is it also an abomination when animals practice homosexuality?
so are you against punishing all criminals as well? if you were called to be on a jury would you refuse because it's against your religion?
tell me about how i will be punished as an unbeliever, do you believe in a literal hell?
i want to know what you think hell is like, describe hell for me.
i want to know how evil and sadistic you think your god really is.
is your god even capable of forgiving someone who is already in hell?
how old does a person have to be to deserve to go to hell?
would your god send a 12 year old child to hell? how about 15 years old? 18 years old?

Again, you used the term "evolved" and new information. So, is the criteria for the correct information is that it is the most recent? At one point in time, condoning slavery was the "new information" because it served the south's economic needs. Is it 'evolved" because it is the most accepting of everyone? You are still discriminating against polygamists, pedophiles, etc. What is the criteria that makes the "new information" better than the old information?

are you for or against owning another human as property?
because there are many verses in the bible that supports slavery

maybe someday you will actually read the bible, and find out how evil and sadistic your god really is

It was an ad hominem argument because you accused me of being a Christian that had not read the Bible, and you followed it up with a comment that my parents screwed me up...

no that wasn't an ad hominem because i never said you didn't read the bible.
so far you have chosen to ignore how evil and sadistic your god really is
all parents screw up their kids in some way or another, most people just hide it better

I can't help but feel that you feel animosity towards me, but just know that I have none towards you, and again, I appreciate the dialogue...

i have no animosity toward you at all, but i do hate religion. and i pity you for not being able to see how much you have been indoctrinated.
Isaiah58
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11/10/2015 2:34:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 1:24:57 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 11/10/2015 12:08:12 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
As far a disappointing my deity, I do it every day, and that is why I needed the sacrifice of Jesus for me to have a connection to God. God required a blood sacrifice. And again, God is God.

so if you believe that jesus was sinless, then what did jesus have that you don't have?
why don't you pray that god gives you the strength to be sinless as well?
i do so enjoy that you ignore how stupid your god is.
the only way god could forgive you, is to provide a loop hole in the rules that god created, all of which your god knew before god even made the rules.
HILARIOUS

Jesus, as part of the Trinity, was eternal. I am finite. Even living eternally, I was still created. I do pray that God gives me the strength to be sinless in order to glorify Him. Not a loophole, a plan. Law first, to show we needed a Savior. No one cares about the cure until they know they're sick.


Practicing homosexuality was and will always be an abomination because of the creative decree and the word of God because God is eternal and again, knows more than me. The difference is that the sacrifice of Christ takes me from enforcing the law to loving someone and doing my best to explain the gospel to them. Unbelievers will be punished, but not my me.

is it also an abomination when animals practice homosexuality?
so are you against punishing all criminals as well? if you were called to be on a jury would you refuse because it's against your religion?
tell me about how i will be punished as an unbeliever, do you believe in a literal hell?
i want to know what you think hell is like, describe hell for me.
i want to know how evil and sadistic you think your god really is.
is your god even capable of forgiving someone who is already in hell?
how old does a person have to be to deserve to go to hell?
would your god send a 12 year old child to hell? how about 15 years old? 18 years old?

Animals were not created in the image of God, so no. I'm not sure how being on a jury would go against my Christian beliefs.
If you choose to continue to reject God, then you will suffer an eternal punishment that scripture describes with images of burning, fire, weeping and gnashing of teeth...etc. You will be separated from the presence of God, and according to the parable that Jesus tells about the rich man and Lazarus, you will be able to see the blessings of eternal life but never attain it...Yes, I believe in a literal hell as I believe in scripture.

I understand how people can see this as an issue of a "loving" God causing pain, but once you commit to love, you create hate. If you love life, you hate death. If you love honesty, then you hate dishonesty... and so on. If you are the Creator of all things, and have made yourself plainly known, yet people continuously reject you...there has to be a punishment. God gives us an opportunity for eternal life by acknowledging who He is...If it takes someone going to hell for them to believe in God, then it that truly free will? God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy...

Again, you used the term "evolved" and new information. So, is the criteria for the correct information is that it is the most recent? At one point in time, condoning slavery was the "new information" because it served the south's economic needs. Is it 'evolved" because it is the most accepting of everyone? You are still discriminating against polygamists, pedophiles, etc. What is the criteria that makes the "new information" better than the old information?

are you for or against owning another human as property?
because there are many verses in the bible that supports slavery

maybe someday you will actually read the bible, and find out how evil and sadistic your god really is

It was an ad hominem argument because you accused me of being a Christian that had not read the Bible, and you followed it up with a comment that my parents screwed me up...

no that wasn't an ad hominem because i never said you didn't read the bible.
so far you have chosen to ignore how evil and sadistic your god really is
all parents screw up their kids in some way or another, most people just hide it better

I can't help but feel that you feel animosity towards me, but just know that I have none towards you, and again, I appreciate the dialogue...

i have no animosity toward you at all, but i do hate religion. and i pity you for not being able to see how much you have been indoctrinated.

I understand that you hate religion, and I'm doing my best to give a truthful representation of scripture. I've encountered many people that hate Christianity because of the way that people who claimed to be Christians had acted. I like that fact that you have done a good job of focusing on the facts of the faith.
If you study the Bible pancanonically, it doesn't support slavery.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/10/2015 5:07:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 2:34:18 AM, Isaiah58 wrote:
Jesus, as part of the Trinity, was eternal. I am finite. Even living eternally, I was still created. I do pray that God gives me the strength to be sinless in order to glorify Him. Not a loophole, a plan. Law first, to show we needed a Savior. No one cares about the cure until they know they're sick.

religion is the disease, and their "cure" is only a placebo

If you choose to continue to reject God, then you will suffer an eternal punishment that scripture describes with images of burning, fire, weeping and gnashing of teeth...etc. You will be separated from the presence of God, and according to the parable that Jesus tells about the rich man and Lazarus, you will be able to see the blessings of eternal life but never attain it...Yes, I believe in a literal hell as I believe in scripture.

I understand how people can see this as an issue of a "loving" God causing pain, but once you commit to love, you create hate. If you love life, you hate death. If you love honesty, then you hate dishonesty... and so on. If you are the Creator of all things, and have made yourself plainly known, yet people continuously reject you...there has to be a punishment. God gives us an opportunity for eternal life by acknowledging who He is...If it takes someone going to hell for them to believe in God, then it that truly free will? God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy...

so your god is nothing more than a mob boss
a mob boss enters a store, threatens to burn the store down if the owner doesn't pay for protection. if the owner doesn't pay, then the owner chooses to have their store burned down.

by that logic no one should be sent to jail for armed robbery because their "victims" choose to give the robbers the money

I understand that you hate religion, and I'm doing my best to give a truthful representation of scripture. I've encountered many people that hate Christianity because of the way that people who claimed to be Christians had acted. I like that fact that you have done a good job of focusing on the facts of the faith.

good people do good things, evil people do evil things, but it takes religion to make good people do evil things. that is why i hate religions.

if god told you to murder a child would you?

If you study the Bible pancanonically, it doesn't support slavery.
maybe someday you will actually read the bible, you should start with these verses
Exodus 21:2-6 how to trick a jewish man into being a slave forever
- there's no law saying women are to be released from slavery
exodus 22:7-11 selling your daughter into slavery
Exodus 21:20-21 how badly you can beat your slaves without being punished
Luke 12:47-48 servants deserve to be beaten
Ephesians 6:5 slaves obey your masters, and serve your masters the same way you would serve christ (no matter how badly they mistreat you)
1 Timothy 6:1-2 even christians are allowed to own slaves

i guess your god was too busy, or forgot to write "thou shalt not own people as property", it's too bad your god isn't able to go back in time and fix that mistake