Total Posts:20|Showing Posts:1-20
Jump to topic:

Atheism is Illogical

GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 3:01:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.

I don't do the lottery, and I certainly have no need of the equivalent of $200 in "s!

If we cease to be, as is likely, when we die that suits me just fine. Being with the Biblical deity in heaven would be worse than hell, imo!
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 3:16:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.

Unfortunately there have been no 'winners' and not even any drawings in your Heavenly lottery. What you're proposing is a variation on Pascal's wager and has been shown to be fallacious because you present only two options when there are literally hundreds. Believing in something no one can demonstrate exists in any factual way is illogical. What you're doing is projecting your issues onto those who do not believe as you do.
Amoranemix
Posts: 521
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 3:44:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
- Grittyworm
If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.
I think what you mean is it would be irrational to accept the ticket, not illogical.
However, there can be reasons to refuse the ticket :
- People don't just give away valuables for free to strangers.
- If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
- Using the lottery ticket may require an investment, for example in time or personal information.
- If you don't know your winning chances, you can't do a cost benefit analysis.
There are similar reasons to reject the trade offered by Christianity.

- Grittyworm
Atheism = death [1]
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory.[2] Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.[3]
[1] Atheism is no more death than Christianity.
[2] Neither does Christianity.
[3] No Christian rebuttal contains victory or reward and most atheists rebuttals are void of death.

- Grittyworm
On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc".[4] But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.
[4] Not all atheists do that.

- Grittyworm
We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry.[5] Atheism is denying a meal when hungry,[6] clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.
[5] Most religions offer no meal, but only the promise of a meal.
[6] Most atheists don't refuse meals, but they may disbelieve the promise of a meal.

- Grittyworm
Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"
No. Atheism is like someone being shot and refuses the attention of a which doctor renowned for killing more patients than he saves.

- Grittyworm
Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.
No. Atheism is like a man in the desert who has learned to recognize mirages and refuses to follow those rushing towards one.

- Grittyworm
Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system[7], contains no victory, and is futile in every way.[8] A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system.[9] To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.[10]
[7] Atheism isn't a belief system. It is the belief that there are no gods.
A belief system would be to disbelieve in the existence of extraordinary concepts for which there is no extraordinary evidence. Most Christians adopt that belief system, except for their faith.
[8] Christianity also contains no victory and is just as futile.
[9] How is that ?
[10] Most atheists believe in something.

- Grittyworm
Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism.[11] It is the belief of one who has given up[12] and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand.[13] Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward.[14] This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.[15]
[11] Neither is there to Christianity, but unlike to Christianity, there is no illogic to atheism.
[12] You are mistaken. Even people who haven't given up can be atheists.
[13] Atheism doesn't try to understand things. Science does.
[14] Atheism doesn't encourage to acquire new knowledge. Curiosity does.
[15] Which has nothing to do with atheism.

- Grittyworm
As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up.[16] They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre.[17] Some cancer patients fight it and survive.
[16] No. Atheism is like tourist in India who declines when being presented on the street allegedly miracle libido enhancing drug.
[17] Don't Christians give in to what they describe as reality or how things are ?

- JJ50
If we cease to be, as is likely, when we die that suits me just fine. Being with the Biblical deity in heaven would be worse than hell, imo!
I don't think so. Just suck up to him and you should be fine.
The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,094
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 3:51:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

There has to be a pot before you can win it..

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is not meant to be a 'meal', it just points out your plate is empty.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Assuming your god exists - If man suffers from 'gunshot wounds', then it is God who holds the gun.

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

No, I have no issue with someone drinking their 'water' from an empty glass. I get irritated when believers spend tax money for giant empty storage tanks for it.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Atheism merely rejects claims of god. It is not meant to be a replacement belief system.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.

Again (assuming god), if man has 'cancer' then god gave it to him.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
iSpy
Posts: 41
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 6:56:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.


What if you received an email from a Nigerian prince offering you fabulous wealth in exchange for giving your bank information as a means of safely holding funds while he moves his family away from a bad situation in his country?

Despite not knowing whether this prince even exists and having only his poorly translated written word, would it be logical to choose to take this person's promise on faith alone? Would disregarding the email be "an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride"?

From the context of logic, obviously not. Sometimes it's better to weigh the merits of a claim and ask questions rather than diving in head first.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 8:42:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.

Atheism is logical. As no evidence exists for a god it is the most sensible viewpoint. You can take Pascal wager and guess on one of hundreds of religions being true but if you see that it has no evidence and seems illogical what is the point? Atheism is realising reality that you have one short life and you need to make the most of it.
ken1122
Posts: 465
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 9:14:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

A more accurate scenario would be; someone had a thousand lottery tickets, but only one could possibly be right, and you could only choose 1, and each lottery ticket required you to change everything you do and believe in order to receive the promise of a prize, and even though these lottery tickets have been handed out for thousands of years, thus far nobody has been given any kind of a prize, just the promise of a prize sometime in the distant future.

If you were given such an opportunity, would you pick one of the lottery tickets along with changing your life for the ticket?
Hitchian
Posts: 764
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 9:23:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.

Terrible post.
As has been pointed out, this a variant on Pascal Wager and deserves the same standard reply that exposes it for the coward calculation that it is.

Your lack of interest for the truth and the refusal to accept its consequences, to accept life as life is, is the defining attribute of this post.

Truth is its own reward.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2015 10:31:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Sounds like you have pascals wager in mind, better to believe in God and be wrong, than not to believe in God and be wrong.

Trouble is that kind of reasoning justifies all sorts of things, all sorts of contradictory kinds of Gods can be proposed and then claimed well better to believe...............

Also I think your analogy sucks.

Some atheists have "checked the ticket" so too speak, that have listened to the arguments but also applied scrutiny to those arguments and listened to counter arguments.

They have sought a God who exists beyond the imaginations and story telling of men.......
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/25/2015 3:05:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:01:42 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.

I don't do the lottery, and I certainly have no need of the equivalent of $200 in "s!

If we cease to be, as is likely, when we die that suits me just fine. Being with the Biblical deity in heaven would be worse than hell, imo!

Yes, being with someone who taught do not judge, love your neighbor, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you, patience, mercy humbleness, meekness, and charity WOULD be Hell.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/25/2015 3:12:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/25/2015 3:05:41 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:01:42 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.

I don't do the lottery, and I certainly have no need of the equivalent of $200 in "s!

If we cease to be, as is likely, when we die that suits me just fine. Being with the Biblical deity in heaven would be worse than hell, imo!

Yes, being with someone who taught do not judge, love your neighbor, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you, patience, mercy humbleness, meekness, and charity WOULD be Hell.
Who committed genocide and infanticide, Dahmer is a nicer character.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
distraff
Posts: 1,004
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2015 4:12:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Atheism is illogica. Not neccessarily incorrect, but definately illogical.

If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out. If you said,"Well, I won't win anyway", and walk away from the ticket without checking it, you have committed an illogical act based on negative belief, arrogance, and stubborn pride. Was it a winner? We will never know. You never scratched it off to find out.

Atheism = death
No matter how you look at it. It holds no victory. Every Atheist rebutal contains no victory and no reward but simply death.

On the other hand Atheists constantly refer to those of faith as "idiots, fools, godbotherers, etc". But is it actually a foolish or illogical thing to choose some version of faith? I propose not. Many people of faith are simply willing to get out of their own way and at least scratch off the ticket to find out.

We are all starving in some way. The choice of faith is taking the offer of a meal when hungry. Atheism is denying a meal when hungry, clinging to negative beliefs to any end, and refusing to reach for the possible hand that is stretched out with help and aide.

Atheism is as a man who has been shot but refuses medical attention saying,"I'm going to die anyway, so why bother?"

Atheism is as a man in the desert who is offered water when thirsty but refuses to drink and gets angry when his counterparts pertake in the water provided.

Is Atheism wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a negative belief system, contains no victory, and is futile in every way. A man is how he thinks and believes. The fundamental core of psychology refutes the basic Atheism model as a healthy, productive, and beneficial internal belief system. To believe in nothing fills you with just that. Nothing. To believe in something fills you with just that. Something.

Life or death? Is it logical to boldly choose death? Is it logical to hate those who choose life? There is no logic to Atheism. It is the belief of one who has given up and relies on their own perception to try to "figure it all out", despite the fact that they never will. Some things are impossible or at least unable at this point to know or understand. Atheism pushes the brain and mind into the depths of the nonunderstood and unknowable but with no reward. This can lead to unsermountable stress and with no reward. Faith leads into the depths of the unknowable but is freed by acceptance of not needing to "know everything". And in this case there is a possible reward and a definate reward. The possible reward is life doesn't end. The definate reward is accepting that it is okay to not know everything and freeing one's self from the chains of futile attempts of full comprehension of the uncomprehendable.

As I stated earlier, is Atheism wrong? Not neccessarily, but it is like a cancer patient who refuses to try and fight it and gives up. They give in to what they describe as "reality" or "how things are", but that isn't neccessarily how things atlre. Some cancer patients fight it and survive.

Why would an atheist refuse medical attention? Further life can have many pleasures. Food, sex, entertainment, money. These things aren't worth living for?
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2015 4:18:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/26/2015 4:08:34 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
And do you know why He did these things? The floor is yours.

Are you claiming that morality is subjective?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
pakicetus
Posts: 66
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2015 6:44:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Lol Pascal's Wager. It'd be nice of the next thread against atheism wasn't composed of an argument several hundred years old.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2015 5:57:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/26/2015 6:44:12 PM, pakicetus wrote:
Lol Pascal's Wager. It'd be nice of the next thread against atheism wasn't composed of an argument several hundred years old.

It'd be nice if Atheist's arguments weren't from a creationist who believed whales evolved from bears.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2015 6:11:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:36:38 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If someone offered you a lottery ticket and said there is a chance this is a $200 million winning ticket, you would logically take it and at least find out.
Pascal's wager by analogy, eh?

But how good is the analogy?

Let's see:
1) Like the mafia, religion makes you pay for your tickets;
2) Unlike the mafia, religion can never tell you how many tickets you actually own;
3) Like religion, the mafia has made enormous profit from rigged lotteries or 'numbers' rackets;
4) Like the mafia, religion has used violence and intimidation to force ticket sales on helpless punters;
5) Like the mafia, there's no end of religious lotteries on offer -- each calling the other a scam;
6) Like the mafia, religious lotteries are completely opaque, and evade any demand for independent supervision; yet
7) Unlike the mafia, religious lotteries are never drawn, and there's no assurance of when they will be.

Wonderful analogy, Gritty! Thank you for making an atheistic case perfectly.
pakicetus
Posts: 66
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2015 7:59:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 5:57:10 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
It'd be nice if Atheist's arguments weren't from a creationist who believed whales evolved from bears.

Virtually nobody who believes in evolution actually believes that (and I'm not an atheist).
desmac
Posts: 5,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2015 9:47:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/27/2015 7:59:33 PM, pakicetus wrote:
At 10/27/2015 5:57:10 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
It'd be nice if Atheist's arguments weren't from a creationist who believed whales evolved from bears.

Virtually nobody who believes in evolution actually believes that (and I'm not an atheist).

Whales evolving from bears was a valid scientific theory, given the evidence available in Darwin's time.
Had he had the fossil evidence available today, doubtless he would have amended his theory accordingly.