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Is perfection attainable?

tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/28/2015 12:42:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 12:15:38 AM, Saints wrote:
We cannot attain perfection in this life, but we can attain a relative perfection in the next. We will only be "perfect" in relation to the purpose that is appointed by our Creator. Only our Creator, Heavenly Father, can be perfect. To clarify, consider Psalm 119:96:
"To all perfection I see a limit, but your commands are boundless." (NIV)
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Saints
Posts: 4
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10/28/2015 1:15:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 12:42:31 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/28/2015 12:15:38 AM, Saints wrote:
We cannot attain perfection in this life, but we can attain a relative perfection in the next. We will only be "perfect" in relation to the purpose that is appointed by our Creator. Only our Creator, Heavenly Father, can be perfect. To clarify, consider Psalm 119:96:
"To all perfection I see a limit, but your commands are boundless." (NIV)

Hello tstor,
You said that: We will only be "perfect" in relation to the purpose that is appointed by our Creator. Does this not mean that his perfection becomes our perfection? I agree with Paul when he said that He dies daily. I see that (and correct me if I am wrong) to say that every sin he commits, he vows to never commit again, or at least to know how to handle them if the situation arises again. So if we handle sin with grace and understanding, is this not considered perfection?
Sarai.K82
Posts: 30
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10/28/2015 1:31:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 12:15:38 AM, Saints wrote:
I would love to hear everyone"s thoughts on this subject.

I would have to agree with Vince Lombardi, "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." There is little in life that is perfect and I know of no living person who comes close. If we leave people and talk about perfection on other levels, fresh, ripe, sweet strawberries come close.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/28/2015 2:06:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 1:15:11 AM, Saints wrote:

Hello tstor,
You said that: We will only be "perfect" in relation to the purpose that is appointed by our Creator. Does this not mean that his perfection becomes our perfection?
That could be a possibility. In reality I cannot know. I would say that our perfection will always have limits, as we will never attain the same perfection of our Heavenly Father.

I agree with Paul when he said that He dies daily. I see that (and correct me if I am wrong) to say that every sin he commits, he vows to never commit again, or at least to know how to handle them if the situation arises again.
I am not sure which verse you are referencing. The only verses that come to mind are Romans 7:21-25. Are those the verses you are thinking of? If so, then I agree, but you will also notice that Paul says he repeatedly commits those same sins:
"So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me." (NIV)

So if we handle sin with grace and understanding, is this not considered perfection?
If we can recognize our sins and request forgiveness, then we receive grace. I would not necessarily say this is perfection, as a perfect human would be free of sin.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Saints
Posts: 4
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10/28/2015 2:08:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 1:31:41 AM, Sarai.K82 wrote:
At 10/28/2015 12:15:38 AM, Saints wrote:
I would love to hear everyone"s thoughts on this subject.

I would have to agree with Vince Lombardi, "Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." There is little in life that is perfect and I know of no living person who comes close. If we leave people and talk about perfection on other levels, fresh, ripe, sweet strawberries come close.

Hello Sarai,
I believe that excellence and perfection are synonymous to each other. I have been playing golf since I was a teenager, and I have excelled at it for years. Just as a football player can throw the perfect pass, I too, can hit the perfect golf shot. Can I hit that shot every time, of course not, but I know it is attainable. I do agree with what you said that, "There is little in life that is perfect", but it doesn"t mean it"s not attainable.
Saints
Posts: 4
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10/28/2015 2:58:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 2:06:52 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/28/2015 1:15:11 AM, Saints wrote:

Hello tstor,
You said that: We will only be "perfect" in relation to the purpose that is appointed by our Creator. Does this not mean that his perfection becomes our perfection?
That could be a possibility. In reality I cannot know. I would say that our perfection will always have limits, as we will never attain the same perfection of our Heavenly Father.

I agree with Paul when he said that He dies daily. I see that (and correct me if I am wrong) to say that every sin he commits, he vows to never commit again, or at least to know how to handle them if the situation arises again.
I am not sure which verse you are referencing. The only verses that come to mind are Romans 7:21-25. Are those the verses you are thinking of? If so, then I agree, but you will also notice that Paul says he repeatedly commits those same sins:
"So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me." (NIV)

I believe that it is in Corinthians. I remember reading it a few months back, but for the life of me cannot find it. It that passage Paul knows what evil is, and what it can do to not only your mind, but the body as well. But he also knows the power of God. The closer to God we become, the more evil will surround you, and Paul knew this. The more we react to evil, the tighter the grip evil has on you, so if we see evil for what it is, how can it consume us? I believe that is what Paul was talking about. I also feel that Paul was not only practicing perfection, but getting very close to attain it. (IMO

So if we handle sin with grace and understanding, is this not considered perfection?
If we can recognize our sins and request forgiveness, then we receive grace. I would not necessarily say this is perfection, as a perfect human would be free of sin.

If we recognize sin for what it is, and gracefully know how to handle it in theory, could we not eliminate it?
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/28/2015 3:19:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 2:58:09 AM, Saints wrote:

I am not sure which verse you are referencing. The only verses that come to mind are Romans 7:21-25. Are those the verses you are thinking of? If so, then I agree, but you will also notice that Paul says he repeatedly commits those same sins:
"So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me." (NIV)

I believe that it is in Corinthians. I remember reading it a few months back, but for the life of me cannot find it. It that passage Paul knows what evil is, and what it can do to not only your mind, but the body as well. But he also knows the power of God. The closer to God we become, the more evil will surround you, and Paul knew this. The more we react to evil, the tighter the grip evil has on you, so if we see evil for what it is, how can it consume us? I believe that is what Paul was talking about. I also feel that Paul was not only practicing perfection, but getting very close to attain it. (IMO
I am not familiar with the verse, but I will comment on what I think Paul taught. Paul was aware that we will always sin. We will claim to never do things, but will always end up doing them. We have a natural inclination to sin, which is the whole purpose for the atonement between God and man.

Perhaps two verses that could compliment your position would be Luke 9:23-24. We have to crucify our false selves daily in order to know the self that God loves. There is a good sermon done by a pastor about these verses:
https://www.youtube.com...
His talk on those verses starts around 9:12.

If we can recognize our sins and request forgiveness, then we receive grace. I would not necessarily say this is perfection, as a perfect human would be free of sin.

If we recognize sin for what it is, and gracefully know how to handle it in theory, could we not eliminate it?
Not at all. We are forgiven by God's grace, not perfected by it.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/28/2015 3:21:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 12:15:38 AM, Saints wrote:
I would love to hear everyone"s thoughts on this subject.

Thermodynamically impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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10/28/2015 4:03:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 12:15:38 AM, Saints wrote:
I would love to hear everyone"s thoughts on this subject.

Objectively define perfection.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten