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The Sacrifice Of Jesus Christ

kasmic
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10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?
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Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/28/2015 6:01:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

I'll chime in to add another relevant point.

Let's be clear about one thing:

According to Christian theology, Christ did not die in the legitimate sense of the word . By definition, death is a permanent state. He was supposedly resurrected 72 hours later. He was then rewarded with an exalted position which far surpassed that which he previously held.

According to the Bible, did Jesus know he would be resurrected? That would certainly diminish the merit of his supposedly voluntary sacrifice.

Note Matthew 20:18-19 ( Source : https://www.biblegateway.com... )

Jeusus' words:

18 "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"

He did know he was going to be resurrected on the third day. The whole ordeal can be more aptly described as a 72-hour long sleep followed by the greatest reward ever awarded. Not exactly what I would describe as sacrifical death.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,659
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10/28/2015 7:41:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

How can a sacrifice made by one for another's trespasses be considered justice?

However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

I have heard conflicting arguments between whether Jesus was or was not actually God. If he was (or part of the Trinity), then what exactly was sacrificed by God? If the persecution and torture were the sacrifice, then many, many people have endured harsher torment and for longer than Jesus did.
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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10/28/2015 7:53:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

So Blood is the key? Again not meaning to be disrespectful but, that seems grotesque. A perfectly just God demands a blood sacrifice?

However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

If one drop was enough, why would I think that his spilling all of his blood was an act of love. Seems like I would conclude it foolish as it was unnecessary.
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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10/28/2015 10:05:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Jesus could forgive sins even before his death. So the death was not needed for forgiveness (Luke 5:21-25).
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/28/2015 11:19:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...
I will answer them directly and if you want some more detail then feel free to ask.

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
For what? If you are asking if it was necessary for the atonement between man and God, then yes.

2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?
I am sure it could be possible, but you have to understand the reasoning behind the ransom in order to fully appreciate it.

Why or why not?

Let's first understand that Jesus was aware of the issues of universal significance that were established back in the garden of Eden. As I am sure you are aware, Adam and Eve chose to disobey God because of the influence of a defiant spirit creature (serpent). What you may not have considered is that their rebellion called into question the righteousness of God's own sovereignty. I might also add that their sin raised the crucial question of whether any humans would ever prove faithful to God under test. (Gen 3:1-6; Job 2:1-5)

This is where Jesus steps in. He alone gave the most unassailable answer possible to both questions raised by Adam and Eve's rebellion. His answer was God's sovereignty and human rectitude. We know this by his perfect obedience. Consider this in light of Philippians 2:8:
"And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-even death on a cross!" (NIV)

Jesus also sustained God's sovereignty and proved that a perfect man could retain perfect integrity to God despite the severest of trials. In short, Jesus was killed in order to vindicate humankind. Or rather, to be the atonement between man and God.

In an elementary reading of the Bible, we see that the prophet Isaiah prophesied that the guaranteed Messiah's (Christ) suffering and death would provide atonement for the sins of humans. Consider this in light of Isaiah 53:5, 10:
"But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed." (NIV)

"Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand." (NIV)

It is known that Jesus distinctly understood this. Consider Matthew 20:28:
"'just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.'" (NIV)

To clarify, his votive death unlocked the way for imperfect humans, us, to have a good relationship with God and to be saved from sin and death. His death also reveals the opportunity to regain what Adam and Eve lost: the hope of living forever in perfect conditions here on earth. (Rev 21:3, 4)
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
scuzz
Posts: 18
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10/29/2015 2:41:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not? : :

Jesus Christ is not the name of a man. It is a symbolic name that represents both the visible and invisible kingdoms of God. All the saints and most of the prophets who testified to the invisible kingdom of God were killed by the heathens who didn't believe they were speaking for Him.

God planned to save all His invisible creation after He destroys all the visible inhabitants of this earth and everything else on it.

This means that all flesh are sacrificed on this earth because they are a part of this world, not the next New Heaven and Earth this is planned for God's creation to experience.
bulproof
Posts: 25,226
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10/29/2015 2:42:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 11:19:16 PM, tstor wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...
I will answer them directly and if you want some more detail then feel free to ask.

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
For what? If you are asking if it was necessary for the atonement between man and God, then yes.

2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?
I am sure it could be possible, but you have to understand the reasoning behind the ransom in order to fully appreciate it.

Why or why not?


Let's first understand that Jesus was aware of the issues of universal significance that were established back in the garden of Eden. As I am sure you are aware, Adam and Eve chose to disobey God because of the influence of a defiant spirit creature (serpent). What you may not have considered is that their rebellion called into question the righteousness of God's own sovereignty. I might also add that their sin raised the crucial question of whether any humans would ever prove faithful to God under test. (Gen 3:1-6; Job 2:1-5)

This is where Jesus steps in. He alone gave the most unassailable answer possible to both questions raised by Adam and Eve's rebellion. His answer was God's sovereignty and human rectitude. We know this by his perfect obedience. Consider this in light of Philippians 2:8:
"And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-even death on a cross!" (NIV)

Jesus also sustained God's sovereignty and proved that a perfect man could retain perfect integrity to God despite the severest of trials. In short, Jesus was killed in order to vindicate humankind. Or rather, to be the atonement between man and God.

In an elementary reading of the Bible, we see that the prophet Isaiah prophesied that the guaranteed Messiah's (Christ) suffering and death would provide atonement for the sins of humans. Consider this in light of Isaiah 53:5, 10:
"But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed." (NIV)

"Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand." (NIV)

It is known that Jesus distinctly understood this. Consider Matthew 20:28:
"'just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.'" (NIV)

To clarify, his votive death unlocked the way for imperfect humans, us, to have a good relationship with God and to be saved from sin and death. His death also reveals the opportunity to regain what Adam and Eve lost: the hope of living forever in perfect conditions here on earth. (Rev 21:3, 4)
It didn't work, people still die.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/29/2015 2:59:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 7:41:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

How can a sacrifice made by one for another's trespasses be considered justice?

Because love unites. 2 are made into one flesh and share one mind. Once this union occurs a substitution can occur. Real justice is not vengeance but restoration and rehabilitation.


However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

I have heard conflicting arguments between whether Jesus was or was not actually God. If he was (or part of the Trinity), then what exactly was sacrificed by God? If the persecution and torture were the sacrifice, then many, many people have endured harsher torment and for longer than Jesus did.

The torture and crucifixion didn't kill Jesus. Jesus laid his life down to endure the wages the paid out by God.

If the wages of Sin is to carry your own weight, then Jesus was a stronger back to bare the burden. A burden that would break and destroy a person.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/29/2015 3:07:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 7:53:19 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

So Blood is the key? Again not meaning to be disrespectful but, that seems grotesque. A perfectly just God demands a blood sacrifice?

There are 3 things that purify. Water, Blood, and Fire. We await an age of Fire now.

But it had to be Blood because Life is in the Blood. So a sacrifice of Blood is the only thing that would give life.


However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

If one drop was enough, why would I think that his spilling all of his blood was an act of love. Seems like I would conclude it foolish as it was unnecessary.

It's the accuser that demands the most when the least is required.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/29/2015 3:22:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 2:42:16 AM, bulproof wrote:

It didn't work, people still die.
I suggest you do a more thorough reading.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
bulproof
Posts: 25,226
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10/29/2015 3:24:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Proof positive that this god is far from omnipotent, but is sadistic.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
scuzz
Posts: 18
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10/29/2015 3:30:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 2:59:35 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:41:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

How can a sacrifice made by one for another's trespasses be considered justice?

Because love unites. 2 are made into one flesh and share one mind. Once this union occurs a substitution can occur. Real justice is not vengeance but restoration and rehabilitation.


However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

I have heard conflicting arguments between whether Jesus was or was not actually God. If he was (or part of the Trinity), then what exactly was sacrificed by God? If the persecution and torture were the sacrifice, then many, many people have endured harsher torment and for longer than Jesus did.

The torture and crucifixion didn't kill Jesus. Jesus laid his life down to endure the wages the paid out by God.

If the wages of Sin is to carry your own weight, then Jesus was a stronger back to bare the burden. A burden that would break and destroy a person. : :

I can easily see that you don't understand how God created everything. Otherwise, you would understand this;

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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10/29/2015 3:44:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 3:30:33 AM, scuzz wrote:
At 10/29/2015 2:59:35 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:41:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

How can a sacrifice made by one for another's trespasses be considered justice?

Because love unites. 2 are made into one flesh and share one mind. Once this union occurs a substitution can occur. Real justice is not vengeance but restoration and rehabilitation.


However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

I have heard conflicting arguments between whether Jesus was or was not actually God. If he was (or part of the Trinity), then what exactly was sacrificed by God? If the persecution and torture were the sacrifice, then many, many people have endured harsher torment and for longer than Jesus did.

The torture and crucifixion didn't kill Jesus. Jesus laid his life down to endure the wages the paid out by God.

If the wages of Sin is to carry your own weight, then Jesus was a stronger back to bare the burden. A burden that would break and destroy a person. : :

I can easily see that you don't understand how God created everything. Otherwise, you would understand this;

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The life of every creature is in it's blood.
scuzz
Posts: 18
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10/29/2015 3:48:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 3:44:17 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/29/2015 3:30:33 AM, scuzz wrote:
At 10/29/2015 2:59:35 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:41:19 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

How can a sacrifice made by one for another's trespasses be considered justice?

Because love unites. 2 are made into one flesh and share one mind. Once this union occurs a substitution can occur. Real justice is not vengeance but restoration and rehabilitation.


However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

I have heard conflicting arguments between whether Jesus was or was not actually God. If he was (or part of the Trinity), then what exactly was sacrificed by God? If the persecution and torture were the sacrifice, then many, many people have endured harsher torment and for longer than Jesus did.

The torture and crucifixion didn't kill Jesus. Jesus laid his life down to endure the wages the paid out by God.

If the wages of Sin is to carry your own weight, then Jesus was a stronger back to bare the burden. A burden that would break and destroy a person. : :

I can easily see that you don't understand how God created everything. Otherwise, you would understand this;

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The life of every creature is in it's blood. : :

Bodies won't need blood in Paradise. That was only meant to deceive God's created people during this first age. All life came from the thoughts of God and spoken into existence. That means our bodies are not real. They're only illusions.
bulproof
Posts: 25,226
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10/29/2015 4:41:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 3:22:42 AM, tstor wrote:
At 10/29/2015 2:42:16 AM, bulproof wrote:

It didn't work, people still die.
I suggest you do a more thorough reading.
I suggest you read the great Catholic book, it's all in there.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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10/29/2015 8:30:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

1. no
2. no
because your god doesn't exist
and if god did exist, then god created those rules in the 1st place
if you think god knows everything then your god is an idiot
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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10/29/2015 8:33:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

it's too bad that your god is an idiot, or else god could have easily created different rules to begin with. reading the bible is the main reason that i'm an atheist. it's too bad so few christians bother to read the bible
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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10/29/2015 10:30:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 4:41:04 AM, bulproof wrote:

I suggest you read the great Catholic book, it's all in there.
Catechism?
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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10/29/2015 4:13:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 8:30:39 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

1. no
2. no
because your god doesn't exist
and if god did exist, then god created those rules in the 1st place
if you think god knows everything then your god is an idiot

Of course my God does not exist.... I am an atheist...
"Liberalism Defined" http://www.debate.org...
"The Social Contract" http://www.debate.org...
"Intro to IR An Open Discussion" http://www.debate.org...

Check out my website, the Sensible Soapbox http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
My latest article: http://www.sensiblesoapbox.com...
nothead
Posts: 371
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10/29/2015 7:10:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 6:01:30 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

I'll chime in to add another relevant point.

Let's be clear about one thing:

According to Christian theology, Christ did not die in the legitimate sense of the word . By definition, death is a permanent state. He was supposedly resurrected 72 hours later. He was then rewarded with an exalted position which far surpassed that which he previously held.

According to the Bible, did Jesus know he would be resurrected? That would certainly diminish the merit of his supposedly voluntary sacrifice.

Note Matthew 20:18-19 ( Source : https://www.biblegateway.com... )

Jeusus' words:

18 "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"


He did know he was going to be resurrected on the third day. The whole ordeal can be more aptly described as a 72-hour long sleep followed by the greatest reward ever awarded. Not exactly what I would describe as sacrifical death.

More than several verses say Jesus died. This is your own take on the event.

Sleep or no, he was det, det as people normally get det, sir.

You don't like the concept since then God can die. You don't understand Jesus NEVER SAID he was God, sir. Get understanding, and the dawn of day LIGHTS UP in your bean.
nothead
Posts: 371
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10/29/2015 7:12:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 8:30:39 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

1. no
2. no
because your god doesn't exist
and if god did exist, then god created those rules in the 1st place
if you think god knows everything then your god is an idiot

Idiot to the world, justified in the end. I am happy to be one, genius.
nothead
Posts: 371
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10/29/2015 7:15:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

Or he had his Son to do it. Who was not God and is not God. As the TEN could have saved Sodom...the ONE saves us. Known concept and known sacrifices to righteousness at the time of Abraham, sir. And the NT serves UP the same symmetry, between Adam the UNRIGHTEOUS, and Jesus the RIGHTEOUS ONE. Amen and hally luwya.
nothead
Posts: 371
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10/29/2015 7:16:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 4:13:46 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 10/29/2015 8:30:39 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

1. no
2. no
because your god doesn't exist
and if god did exist, then god created those rules in the 1st place
if you think god knows everything then your god is an idiot

Of course my God does not exist.... I am an atheist...

Contradiction: YOUR God does not exist? How did He get to be YOUR GOD, sir?
nothead
Posts: 371
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10/29/2015 7:17:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 8:33:33 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/28/2015 7:25:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

Only a sacrifice by God was sufficient to appease the perfect Justice of God. Now due to the perfect nature of God any sacrifice of His would have been sufficient. Thus a single drop of blood shed during the circumcision at the Temple could have been sufficient.

However, due to the loving nature of God He chose to give all His blood and suffer fully on our behalf.

it's too bad that your god is an idiot, or else god could have easily created different rules to begin with. reading the bible is the main reason that i'm an atheist. it's too bad so few christians bother to read the bible

Obviously the Bible gave you insurmountable questions, sir.

Surmount the questions, and be happy.
kasmic
Posts: 1,302
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10/29/2015 7:23:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 7:16:00 PM, nothead wrote:
At 10/29/2015 4:13:46 PM, kasmic wrote:
At 10/29/2015 8:30:39 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

1. no
2. no
because your god doesn't exist
and if god did exist, then god created those rules in the 1st place
if you think god knows everything then your god is an idiot

Of course my God does not exist.... I am an atheist...

Contradiction: YOUR God does not exist? How did He get to be YOUR GOD, sir?

ok, so the syntax may be wanting... what I intended was... I dont have a God.
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Hitchian
Posts: 764
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10/29/2015 7:28:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 7:10:16 PM, nothead wrote:
At 10/28/2015 6:01:30 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

I'll chime in to add another relevant point.

Let's be clear about one thing:

According to Christian theology, Christ did not die in the legitimate sense of the word . By definition, death is a permanent state. He was supposedly resurrected 72 hours later. He was then rewarded with an exalted position which far surpassed that which he previously held.

According to the Bible, did Jesus know he would be resurrected? That would certainly diminish the merit of his supposedly voluntary sacrifice.

Note Matthew 20:18-19 ( Source : https://www.biblegateway.com... )

Jeusus' words:

18 "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"


He did know he was going to be resurrected on the third day. The whole ordeal can be more aptly described as a 72-hour long sleep followed by the greatest reward ever awarded. Not exactly what I would describe as sacrifical death.

More than several verses say Jesus died. This is your own take on the event.

Sleep or no, he was det, det as people normally get det, sir.

You don't like the concept since then God can die. You don't understand Jesus NEVER SAID he was God, sir. Get understanding, and the dawn of day LIGHTS UP in your bean.

I'm not impressed by how many times the Bible says Jesus died.
He did not die in the sense human beings refer to death. What makes death death is its permanency. In that fundamental sense Jesus did not die. Moreover, He knew his condition was going to last a mere 72 hours. 72 hours is nothing, diluted in eternity, especially when one has been exalted to a position of unprecedented grace with God the Father.
nothead
Posts: 371
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10/29/2015 7:55:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 7:28:40 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/29/2015 7:10:16 PM, nothead wrote:
At 10/28/2015 6:01:30 PM, Hitchian wrote:
At 10/28/2015 5:48:34 PM, kasmic wrote:
The questions I am here to ask are not intended to be disrespectful. I am seriously asking...

1: Was the Crucifixion of Christ necessary?
2: Could God have saved mankind with out that sacrifice?

Why or why not?

I'll chime in to add another relevant point.

Let's be clear about one thing:

According to Christian theology, Christ did not die in the legitimate sense of the word . By definition, death is a permanent state. He was supposedly resurrected 72 hours later. He was then rewarded with an exalted position which far surpassed that which he previously held.

According to the Bible, did Jesus know he would be resurrected? That would certainly diminish the merit of his supposedly voluntary sacrifice.

Note Matthew 20:18-19 ( Source : https://www.biblegateway.com... )

Jeusus' words:

18 "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"


He did know he was going to be resurrected on the third day. The whole ordeal can be more aptly described as a 72-hour long sleep followed by the greatest reward ever awarded. Not exactly what I would describe as sacrifical death.

More than several verses say Jesus died. This is your own take on the event.

Sleep or no, he was det, det as people normally get det, sir.

You don't like the concept since then God can die. You don't understand Jesus NEVER SAID he was God, sir. Get understanding, and the dawn of day LIGHTS UP in your bean.

I'm not impressed by how many times the Bible says Jesus died.
He did not die in the sense human beings refer to death. What makes death death is its permanency. In that fundamental sense Jesus did not die. Moreover, He knew his condition was going to last a mere 72 hours. 72 hours is nothing, diluted in eternity, especially when one has been exalted to a position of unprecedented grace with God the Father.

The amazing fact that the New Testament describes is the first and greatest resurrection of men, Jesus being pre-eminent. We all have hope for eternal life since the example is before us. First born among many brethren.