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Types of Scripture "

dattaswami
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11/2/2015 5:18:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

The scripture is of two types. 1) Scripture said by God (Shruti) and 2) Scripture said by human beings within the limits of their capacity of knowledge (Smruti). It is said that the second type of the scripture always shows variations (Smrutayo Vibhinnah) because the human beings vary with different lines of conclusions and logistics. But, all these authors of the second type of scripture (Smruti) follow the first type of scripture without any difference in that aspect. They differ only in their interpretations. Such scholars are respectable since they are faithful to the scripture told by God. But, there are some clever selfish persons, who try to quote the scripture to support their sins without verifying whether such supporting statement is genuine or not.

The first type of scripture is said to be valid because God said it. But, there is no proof that God said the scripture because God is unimaginable. Such God gets identified with a human being and reveals His knowledge to the world through such selected person like Krishna, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Mahavir etc. It is quite possible that the human being might have said the scripture and such scripture cannot be declared as the word of God even in the case of genuine human incarnation. For example, Parashurama, the human incarnation of God, addressed Rama as a petty fellow before him. Such statement of Parashurama is not from the God component but is from the human being component existing in the human incarnation as medium. It is only the word of a human being, which should be identified by your sharp analysis.

When this is the case of a genuine human incarnation, you need not allow the pseudo-human incarnation without the test of analysis. Hence, every statement of the scripture must be subjected to thorough analysis so that we can separate the milk and water mixed with each other. Therefore, no statement of the scripture can be taken as authority because we do not know whether the statement is from God or from the human being. When the human being speaks, based on the merits of the speech, we can decide whether it is the word of God or word of a human being.

A human being gives a statement. We do not know whether the human being is God in human form or the human being without God. You should not decide God in human form through miracles because even demons perform the miracles. The only identification of God in human form is the divine knowledge that is emitting from such human incarnation to guide every human being in the right path. The human incarnation also performs miracles, but not as an exhibition as done by a demon. Based on the necessity and requirement that is decided by God (not by us), the miracle is exhibited by the human incarnation spontaneously without any effort. Miracle is only an additional identification like the Khaki dress of a police officer.

We see incidents in which some thieves also wear the police uniform and cheat the public. We also see some powerful officers of the police department (CID) without uniform. Therefore, the appointment order as the police officer is very important like the spiritual knowledge that directs the people in right path and not mere miracles, which act like uniform.

God disowns the miracles even exhibited by Him because He does not like to be identified in that angle since clever devotees always try to exploit Him for their selfish benefits. The miracles are very dangerous because the devotees do not progress in the spiritual line, who are habituated to exploit the miracles for their selfish ends. The devotee is expected to serve God without any selfish motive. The human being component in the incarnation is also spoiled with ego due to the praise of the surrounding selfish devotees.

Thus, a miracle is always kept hidden by the God since God always likes to help the human beings (including the human being possessed by Him) and not to spoil them. The main identity of the human incarnation is the spiritual knowledge (Prajnanam Brahma), which is like the genuine appointment order of a police officer. The appointment order may also be fake and thus, the knowledge exhibited may be proved wrong in your analysis in the case of a pseudo-human incarnation. Hence, whether it is the appointment order or uniform, the analysis is always essential everywhere.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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11/3/2015 10:29:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/2/2015 5:18:02 PM, dattaswami wrote:
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

The scripture is of two types. 1) Scripture said by God (Shruti) and 2) Scripture said by human beings within the limits of their capacity of knowledge (Smruti). It is said that the second type of the scripture always shows variations (Smrutayo Vibhinnah) because the human beings vary with different lines of conclusions and logistics. But, all these authors of the second type of scripture (Smruti) follow the first type of scripture without any difference in that aspect. They differ only in their interpretations. Such scholars are respectable since they are faithful to the scripture told by God. But, there are some clever selfish persons, who try to quote the scripture to support their sins without verifying whether such supporting statement is genuine or not.

Any types of scripture is written by humans and only humans. Some humans, however, have a capacity to go beyond speculation of the spiritual and make platforms. These humans you can say write like a god. This can even be a regular human being with no knowledge of the spiritual.

The first type of scripture is said to be valid because God said it. But, there is no proof that God said the scripture because God is unimaginable. Such God gets identified with a human being and reveals His knowledge to the world through such selected person like Krishna, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Mahavir etc. It is quite possible that the human being might have said the scripture and such scripture cannot be declared as the word of God even in the case of genuine human incarnation. For example, Parashurama, the human incarnation of God, addressed Rama as a petty fellow before him. Such statement of Parashurama is not from the God component but is from the human being component existing in the human incarnation as medium. It is only the word of a human being, which should be identified by your sharp analysis.

All types of scriptures are valid to the observer that makes them valid. The author of a scripture writes their vision of paradise. It is up to the humans without the creative capacity to create spiritual knowledge to choose which one resonates best with them. Just like anything else in life; the observer creates their path.

When this is the case of a genuine human incarnation, you need not allow the pseudo-human incarnation without the test of analysis. Hence, every statement of the scripture must be subjected to thorough analysis so that we can separate the milk and water mixed with each other. Therefore, no statement of the scripture can be taken as authority because we do not know whether the statement is from God or from the human being. When the human being speaks, based on the merits of the speech, we can decide whether it is the word of God or word of a human being.

This is exactly what happens. I personally have analysed the speculation that each author gives to the vision of their afterlife. I have found none that are appealing, therefore reject their label. I do not however reject all the words in scriptures; many have great lessons. Yet... in my conclusion i have decided that i have the capacity to create my own paradise. This has had me thinking... how am i any different to these so called "scholars," when i too can envision a paradise.

A human being gives a statement. We do not know whether the human being is God in human form or the human being without God. You should not decide God in human form through miracles because even demons perform the miracles. The only identification of God in human form is the divine knowledge that is emitting from such human incarnation to guide every human being in the right path. The human incarnation also performs miracles, but not as an exhibition as done by a demon. Based on the necessity and requirement that is decided by God (not by us), the miracle is exhibited by the human incarnation spontaneously without any effort. Miracle is only an additional identification like the Khaki dress of a police officer.

Again... funny thing is i gave a statement. Am i god or am i directed by god? I would answer yes to both, for i am the god of my own views/world. You create your path here, you decide who to follow, you decide what you like, you decide what makes you happy; why is it, all the sudden, in death... you relinquish all your power to someone else? I stand as firm as "Lucifer" on this point.

We see incidents in which some thieves also wear the police uniform and cheat the public. We also see some powerful officers of the police department (CID) without uniform. Therefore, the appointment order as the police officer is very important like the spiritual knowledge that directs the people in right path and not mere miracles, which act like uniform.

Yes...there are thieves in wolves clothing; but aren't they just trying to get bread to eat? Do they not also have a desire to live and be respected? If these thieves happen to touch another's life spiritually; haven't they saved someone the same as any other thief in a priests outfit.

God disowns the miracles even exhibited by Him because He does not like to be identified in that angle since clever devotees always try to exploit Him for their selfish benefits. The miracles are very dangerous because the devotees do not progress in the spiritual line, who are habituated to exploit the miracles for their selfish ends. The devotee is expected to serve God without any selfish motive. The human being component in the incarnation is also spoiled with ego due to the praise of the surrounding selfish devotees.

You are incorrect; to be selfish is to love yourself. To love yourself is to follow what you find beautiful. You are your own god creating in this world. You call it ego and being selfish; i call it self awareness. And, once you have become self aware you will realize that you zealously want others to share in this piece of mind. However, you cannot get their without fixing yourself first. No god is controlling, judging, telling you anything other than the god attached to "your" shoulders (there is a pun in there i think).

Thus, a miracle is always kept hidden by the God since God always likes to help the human beings (including the human being possessed by Him) and not to spoil them. The main identity of the human incarnation is the spiritual knowledge (Prajnanam Brahma), which is like the genuine appointment order of a police officer. The appointment order may also be fake and thus, the knowledge exhibited may be proved wrong in your analysis in the case of a pseudo-human incarnation. Hence, whether it is the appointment order or uniform, the analysis is always essential everywhere.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

Following anyone else is a danger. Following your ideas is a danger. Why? Bc we are different. I do not have to follow you or your ideologies, yet at the same time i am sure i follow a lot of your morals. The key of god is in your own hands. Everyone is free to choose which path they would follow. You may have the spiritual knowledge to set a platform, but you must humble yourself to the ones that follow or don't. You must be so self aware in your spiritual knowledge to guide some people to a different world. Yes... you must be so humble that if you see your way is torture to ones mind you can let them go to another immortals platform... I see no spiritual humility... i only see ultimatums and dominion. The world will see this in time.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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11/4/2015 1:28:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
DEVOTEE: Is it possible for God to come in Human form?

Reply of Shri Swmi

How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. One need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarifying the doubts.

The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?

When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc? To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the superpower of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once.

But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such superpower in some place and in sometime. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation.

When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorize any experience. When this authorization is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience

Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point.

posted by: surya

At 11/3/2015 10:29:14 PM, Outplayz wrote:
Any types of scripture is written by humans and only humans. Some humans, however, have a capacity to go beyond speculation of the spiritual and make platforms. These humans you can say write like a god. This can even be a regular human being with no knowledge of the spiritual.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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11/5/2015 11:00:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/4/2015 1:28:47 PM, dattaswami wrote:
DEVOTEE: Is it possible for God to come in Human form?

Sure... It will be human never the less though.

Reply of Shri Swmi

How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. One need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarifying the doubts.

Preaching spirituality isn't bad. Seeking it isn't bad. Feeling it isn't bad. Telling people of your platform isn't bad. All of which are beautiful creation of the human imagination which is why in my eyes is a powerful thing.

The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?

It is the separation that needs to be preserved. You call this one power god... which is okay to me. Yet, as someone trying to be spiritually honest; you must know there is more than one way to this truth. Knowing there is more than one way to this truth, humans can shed their ego of forcing others to their truth; which is only one way.

When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc? To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the superpower of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once.

But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such superpower in some place and in sometime. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation.

Why not? This person's experience is no different to someones that forgot the place they experienced their power, yet can manifest it through their art. When one knows what platform they want; they intuitively will know what to seek. The job of the most spiritual is to guide; not choose the platform for the observer.

When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorize any experience. When this authorization is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience

Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point.

posted by: surya

Like i said earlier; i don't contest your last point... i am merely suggesting imho there is more than one "god" coming down... The observer knows which to pick. Like in all other things in life; we are responsible for ourselves and our choices... that doesn't magically disappear when we face the grim reaper.

Some humans, however, have a capacity to go beyond speculation of the spiritual and make platforms.

You can call these the "gods."
edgar_winters
Posts: 49
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11/5/2015 11:04:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 11:00:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 11/4/2015 1:28:47 PM, dattaswami wrote:
DEVOTEE: Is it possible for God to come in Human form?

Sure... It will be human never the less though.

Reply of Shri Swmi

How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. One need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarifying the doubts.

Preaching spirituality isn't bad. Seeking it isn't bad. Feeling it isn't bad. Telling people of your platform isn't bad. All of which are beautiful creation of the human imagination which is why in my eyes is a powerful thing.

The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?

It is the separation that needs to be preserved. You call this one power god... which is okay to me. Yet, as someone trying to be spiritually honest; you must know there is more than one way to this truth. Knowing there is more than one way to this truth, humans can shed their ego of forcing others to their truth; which is only one way.

When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc? To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the superpower of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once.

But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such superpower in some place and in sometime. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation.

Why not? This person's experience is no different to someones that forgot the place they experienced their power, yet can manifest it through their art. When one knows what platform they want; they intuitively will know what to seek. The job of the most spiritual is to guide; not choose the platform for the observer.

When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorize any experience. When this authorization is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience

Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point.

posted by: surya

Like i said earlier; i don't contest your last point... i am merely suggesting imho there is more than one "god" coming down... The observer knows which to pick. Like in all other things in life; we are responsible for ourselves and our choices... that doesn't magically disappear when we face the grim reaper.

Some humans, however, have a capacity to go beyond speculation of the spiritual and make platforms.

You can call these the "gods." : :

No one in God's simulation can find the truth. They are chosen by God and taught the truth, even without recognizing where they get their thoughts from.
dattaswami
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11/7/2015 9:20:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
(Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Gita says that the God is not modified into the human body (Avyaktam Vyakti Mapannam"). The person did not become the shirt but He wears the shirt as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanum"). The Lord wears the human body and does not become the human body. If you touch the shirt present on His body you are getting the experience of the inner body. Similarly the inner God gives His experience through the external body.

I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word "Asritam" in the verse of Gita "Manushim tanumasritam" means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse "Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam".

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)

At 11/5/2015 11:00:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
Like i said earlier; i don't contest your last point... i am merely suggesting imho there is more than one "god" coming down... The observer knows which to pick. Like in all other things in life; we are responsible for ourselves and our choices... that doesn't magically disappear when we face the grim reaper.

Some humans, however, have a capacity to go beyond speculation of the spiritual and make platforms.

You can call these the "gods.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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11/7/2015 9:21:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Identity mark to recognize human incarnation of God (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Real characteristic properties of the Lord as declared by Veda are the Special Knowledge (Prajnana), the Love (Rasa or Prema) & Bliss (Ananda). Veda also says that these three characteristics must be experienced by others if the possessor is having really those characteristics.

The characteristic property of the fire is heat. Any person, who is near fire, should experience heat and then only we can say that fire is hot. Similarly, Lord in human form must make others to experience the Jnana, Prema and Ananda. Veda says "Esha Hyeva Anandayati", which means that God creates Bliss in the hearts of others. Lord should not be recognized merely by miracles because even demons performed these miracles. Miracles are only associated property like jewels.

Lord in human form always hesitates to perform the miracles unless special emergency arises. The reason for this is that the Lord is dwelling in the human form, which is a product of this nature (Prakrithi). He is living in the nature. Therefore the Lord follows the rules of the nature and these rules were formulated by Himself only. No administrator will like to contradict his own rules. Even in the emergency when He violates the rule of the nature, He keeps the violation as a secret.

When the administrator violates his own rule, he will not propagate about that violation. He maintains the secrecy of the violation. Only demons violate frequently the rules of the nature and also advertise about the violation because they did not frame the rules. When Lord Krishna made artificial sunset by covering the Sun with His Sudarshana Chakra, He kept it as a secret. People thought that a cloud covered the Sun. Violating His own rule itself is a mistake.

Exhibition of violation of His own rule by Himself will be another mistake. In that situation the life of Arjuna who was His closest devotee was under threat. In that emergency only the Lord violated the Prakrithi and used His superpower (Maya). In the eighteen days of Mahabharatha war He never used His super power. Bhishma wounded the Lord with severe arrows.

Even then the Lord did not use His super power. Therefore miracles are not the real characteristics of the Lord. Rama never performed miracles except in the case of "Ahalya" and in breaking the bow of Siva. Krishna also performed the miracles in the child hood to save His own life and to save the lives of His devotees. All these situations were the cases of unavoidable emergency.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)