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Fake Jews. What is revelation 3:9 about?

Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/5/2015 12:45:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." http://biblehub.com...

What's this a reference too? Many of the black Jews claim it refers to the Czar Jews who are white and a large percentage of the Israeli and/or Jewish population.

Are the real Jews Black? Are the Czar Jews fake? Even if the modern Jew is not Czar, is it still a referance to them?

Is my line of questioning way off and this is a referance to something not even about that in nature?

Anyway just curious about what the hell this means, since I see it so often mentioned on the wierd parts of Youtube. I literally have no opinion of it myself.
dee-em
Posts: 6,486
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11/5/2015 1:43:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:45:25 AM, Wylted wrote:
Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." http://biblehub.com...

What's this a reference too? Many of the black Jews claim it refers to the Czar Jews who are white and a large percentage of the Israeli and/or Jewish population.

Are the real Jews Black? Are the Czar Jews fake? Even if the modern Jew is not Czar, is it still a referance to them?

Is my line of questioning way off and this is a referance to something not even about that in nature?

Anyway just curious about what the hell this means, since I see it so often mentioned on the wierd parts of Youtube. I literally have no opinion of it myself.

How does anyone get black Jews and 'Czar' Jews from that passage? It's about the conflict between the proto-Christians and the Jews (general) who would not accept Jesus as the Messiah. The writer is just demonizing the Jews, all Jews. What else would you expect from a new bastard offshoot of Judaism but to try smear tactics against their rival?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/5/2015 1:47:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 1:43:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 11/5/2015 12:45:25 AM, Wylted wrote:
Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." http://biblehub.com...

What's this a reference too? Many of the black Jews claim it refers to the Czar Jews who are white and a large percentage of the Israeli and/or Jewish population.

Are the real Jews Black? Are the Czar Jews fake? Even if the modern Jew is not Czar, is it still a referance to them?

Is my line of questioning way off and this is a referance to something not even about that in nature?

Anyway just curious about what the hell this means, since I see it so often mentioned on the wierd parts of Youtube. I literally have no opinion of it myself.

How does anyone get black Jews and 'Czar' Jews from that passage?

Conspiracy theorists can be pretty creative.

It's about the conflict between the proto-Christians and the Jews (general) who would not accept Jesus as the Messiah. The writer is just demonizing the Jews, all Jews. What else would you expect from a new bastard offshoot of Judaism but to try smear tactics against their rival?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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11/5/2015 3:01:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:45:25 AM, Wylted wrote:
Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." http://biblehub.com...

What's this a reference too? Many of the black Jews claim it refers to the Czar Jews who are white and a large percentage of the Israeli and/or Jewish population.

Are the real Jews Black? Are the Czar Jews fake? Even if the modern Jew is not Czar, is it still a referance to them?

Is my line of questioning way off and this is a referance to something not even about that in nature?

Anyway just curious about what the hell this means, since I see it so often mentioned on the wierd parts of Youtube. I literally have no opinion of it myself.

We had one member here that used to talk of the "true Israelites" being dark skinned (black). I don't remember who it was though... This may be part of the same spiel.
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skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/5/2015 8:07:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:45:25 AM, Wylted wrote:
Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." http://biblehub.com...

What's this a reference too? Many of the black Jews claim it refers to the Czar Jews who are white and a large percentage of the Israeli and/or Jewish population.
Messages to "the churches" are spirit only so therefore it is impossible to have race as an issue.
Are the real Jews Black? Are the Czar Jews fake? Even if the modern Jew is not Czar, is it still a referance to them?
Judaism to God isn't the exact same thing it is to humans. This is about a core spiritual belief innate in people already. Btw, I don't expect you to accept that. "Jews" is a way of referring to the belief not necessarily a race, though its possible that a particular blood line could only hold this innate belief. The ability to determine which people are or are not of this bloodline would merely be impossible because of the differences in who has married and/or had children with who since this was written. God knows of course based on properly interpreting the Biblical concepts.
Is my line of questioning way off and this is a referance to something not even about that in nature?

Anyway just curious about what the hell this means, since I see it so often mentioned on the wierd parts of Youtube. I literally have no opinion of it myself.
edgar_winters
Posts: 49
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11/5/2015 10:41:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:45:25 AM, Wylted wrote:
Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." http://biblehub.com...

What's this a reference too? Many of the black Jews claim it refers to the Czar Jews who are white and a large percentage of the Israeli and/or Jewish population.

Are the real Jews Black? Are the Czar Jews fake? Even if the modern Jew is not Czar, is it still a referance to them?

Is my line of questioning way off and this is a referance to something not even about that in nature?

Anyway just curious about what the hell this means, since I see it so often mentioned on the wierd parts of Youtube. I literally have no opinion of it myself. : :

This biblical passage helps to understand it;

Galations 5:
19: Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness,
20: idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit,
21: envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The flesh of man is of this world that we perceive to be our true existence. The spirit of man cannot be seen but it's the created part of man. All flesh was formed from the spirit, which is nothing but God's thoughts spoken into existence.

Jacob in the following prophecy means the spirit of man, which was created. Israel means the visible flesh of man that will perish during this first age. Once all flesh has been destroyed, then created man will awaken in new flesh and live forever.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
Skynet
Posts: 674
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11/6/2015 4:35:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/5/2015 12:45:25 AM, Wylted wrote:
Revelation 3:9 "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you." http://biblehub.com...

What's this a reference too? Many of the black Jews claim it refers to the Czar Jews who are white and a large percentage of the Israeli and/or Jewish population.

Are the real Jews Black? Are the Czar Jews fake? Even if the modern Jew is not Czar, is it still a referance to them?

Is my line of questioning way off and this is a referance to something not even about that in nature?

Anyway just curious about what the hell this means, since I see it so often mentioned on the wierd parts of Youtube. I literally have no opinion of it myself.

From the surrounding context in Revelation, I would ignore anything about black jews or Czar jews. This is a message primarily intended for the folks in the church of Philedelphia, which were apparently under great persecution. God did not say this to pat one group who called themselves Jews on the back and shame another. The Philidelphia church was probably mostly Messiah following Jews (Jewish-heritaged Christians), but also included Greeks (Gentile Hellenistic-heritaged Christians) as the integration and acceptance of Gentiles had occurred many years before Revelation was written. (Acts 10:1-11:18) Christianity was popularly known as a sect of Judaism early on, as the Church was composed almost entirely of Jews, and many early Christians were even under the mistaken impression that Christ came ONLY for Jews, and not just FIRST for Jews. (Romans 1:16)

But anyway, not only did some (not all) Jews persecute the early Church, but there were weird heretical sects of Judaism in those days, as there are now. Nationalistic Zealots who had insurrections, like Barabbas (Mark 15:7) mystics like Bar-Jesus (Acts 13:6-8), theological liberals, like the Sadducees (Mark 12:18), licentious in-name-only Jews like the Herod who killed John the Baptist (Mark 6:22), and Legalists like the Circumcision Group and Pharisees (Galatians 2:12). These groups at times themselves persecuted Christians, or incited/joined Pagan Gentiles to do so. (Acts 13:50, 21:7-23)

Your passage in Revelation could have been referring to an outwardly Jewish occultic sect, or just a group of Jews of any other flavor that did not accept Jesus as Messiah. Either way, the actions of this particular group were apparently very harmful and arrogant toward these Christians, so Jesus promises to make them eat their own words.

If you want a better understanding of the dynamics of Jewish/Christian relationships in those days, I highly recommend going through the book of Acts. It is written in a very easy to read, familiar Western style by a man who lived through it. (Western as in late-Classical, not cowboys)
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