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Who Was Prophet Muhammad? DEBATE

POPOO5560
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11/11/2015 9:04:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
https://www.youtube.com...

Its a long debate but it would be good to see what atheists/non muslims say about this objectively... the debaters are David Wood and Ali Ataie... reading the comments by christians below makes me to cry with their nonsense just thinking David got raped intellectually... but im a Muslim so im not qualified to speak for others. what do u think?
Never fart near dog
Composer
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11/12/2015 3:18:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Muhammed was a sinner. Many Muslims believe that he was sinless. However, he said this himself: "O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." [Hadith vol. 1, No. 711].

People do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but for moral ones.

Sahih Muslim vol.1 book 4 ch.268 no.1695 p.373 says Mohammed prayed, "I wronged myself and make a confession of my sin. Forgive all my sins,"" Bukhari vol.1 book 2 ch.13 no.19 p.23, vol.1.12.57 no.781 p.434; vol.6 .60.3 no.3 p.4; vol.8.75.3 no.319 p.213, and vol.8.75.62 prior to no.407 p.271 prior also mention Mohammed"s sins. Specific things mentioned in the Bukhari vol.1.4.70 no.234 p.147-148; Bukhari vol.8.82.1 no.794,795 p.520 are amputating people"s arms and legs, burning out their eyes, and making them thirst as they died after their limbs were cut off. See Bukhari vol.8.82.3 no.796, ch.4 p.797; Bukhari vol.6 ch.150 prior to no.198 p.158-159, as well as Fiqh us-Sunnah vol.1 p.133 (Source: MuslimHope.com\Origins of Islam)
Yassine
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11/12/2015 4:23:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 3:18:49 AM, Composer wrote:

Muhammed was a sinner.

- No. That's impossible, by design. If the Prophet (pbuh) did an act, then that act is automatically not a sin.

Many Muslims believe that he was sinless.

- All of them do, for they must. It is mentioned in the Qur'an.

However, he said this himself: "O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." [Hadith vol. 1, No. 711].

- & he (pbuh) said: "I ask Allah for forgiveness seventy times a day". That doesn't mean he is a sinner. The Qur'an is filled with prophets asking God for forgiveness, including Jesus (pbuh). Asking God for forgiveness is an essential requirement for worship, & doesn't necessarily imply committing sin.

People do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but for moral ones.

- Your understanding of 'forgiveness' is wrong in this case. No creature can worship God as God truly deserves, thus, no creature, no matter how sinless, can worship God perfectly. The Prophet (pbuh) is not asking God to forgive sins he supposedly committed, but rather asking God to forgive the imperfection of his act of worship. Also, I think there is a passage in the Bible where Jesus (pbuh) prayed to God & asked for his forgiveness. I could be wrong though.
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DanMGTOW
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11/12/2015 6:05:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/11/2015 9:04:19 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com...

Its a long debate but it would be good to see what atheists/non muslims say about this objectively... the debaters are David Wood and Ali Ataie... reading the comments by christians below makes me to cry with their nonsense just thinking David got raped intellectually... but im a Muslim so im not qualified to speak for others. what do u think?

i enjoy watching different religions try to debate each other
it is the same as 1 person arguing that superman and batman aren't real
but the person has a relationship with spiderman.

reading the bible is the main reason that i'm an atheist. is your god even able to convince me that it exists?
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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11/12/2015 6:23:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 4:23:28 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/12/2015 3:18:49 AM, Composer wrote:
Many Muslims believe that he was sinless.

- All of them do, for they must. It is mentioned in the Qur'an.
The book allegedly created by Muhammad says that Muhammad was sinless therefore Muhammad was sinless.
I'm sinless.
Yassine
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11/12/2015 7:13:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 6:23:31 AM, bulproof wrote:

The book allegedly created by Muhammad says that Muhammad was sinless therefore Muhammad was sinless.

- Created is the wrong word. But yeah, pretty much.
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bulproof
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11/12/2015 8:22:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 7:13:06 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/12/2015 6:23:31 AM, bulproof wrote:

The book allegedly created by Muhammad says that Muhammad was sinless therefore Muhammad was sinless.

- Created is the wrong word. But yeah, pretty much.
So I'm sinless, because I say so.
shalal12
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11/12/2015 12:44:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 4:23:28 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/12/2015 3:18:49 AM, Composer wrote:

Muhammed was a sinner.

- No. That's impossible, by design. If the Prophet (pbuh) did an act, then that act is automatically not a sin.
Yeah, If the Prophet (pbuh) did an act, then that act is automatically not a sin and 100% correct. However I just wonder when some companions argued him over some tasks and issues to corrected Muhammad (pbuh)!!!

Many Muslims believe that he was sinless.

- All of them do, for they must. It is mentioned in the Qur'an.
Of course, some Sunni Muslims think that he made some mistakes unintentionally which were refined by some trustworthy companions!! Some rare companions used to ask Muhammad (pbuh) arguing on some cases, "Oh Muhammad, is this what God say to you or what you have thought by yourself?"

However, he said this himself: "O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." [Hadith vol. 1, No. 711].

- & he (pbuh) said: "I ask Allah for forgiveness seventy times a day". That doesn't mean he is a sinner.
Really?! How about this one=>Quran 33:33=> As you said" So there exist sin"=>As there should be a sinner to be purified.=> I found your logic an unstable one.
graceofgod
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11/12/2015 6:16:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
a peodophile and a murdering bandit.... well mohammed was, there is no such thing as the prophet mohammed..
Yassine
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11/13/2015 1:59:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 8:22:45 AM, bulproof wrote:

So I'm sinless, because I say so.

- If you're a prophet, yes.
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Yassine
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11/13/2015 2:00:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 6:05:27 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

i enjoy watching different religions try to debate each other
it is the same as 1 person arguing that superman and batman aren't real
but the person has a relationship with spiderman.

- Whatever.

reading the bible is the main reason that i'm an atheist. is your god even able to convince me that it exists?

- Cool story bro.
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bulproof
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11/13/2015 2:09:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 1:59:38 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/12/2015 8:22:45 AM, bulproof wrote:

So I'm sinless, because I say so.

- If you're a prophet, yes.

Well I am, because I say so.
Yassine
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11/13/2015 2:10:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 2:09:13 AM, bulproof wrote:

Well I am, because I say so.

- Not so fast. You have to prove that you're a prophet first.
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Yassine
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11/13/2015 2:18:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 12:44:47 PM, shalal12 wrote:

Yeah, If the Prophet (pbuh) did an act, then that act is automatically not a sin and 100% correct. However I just wonder when some companions argued him over some tasks and issues to corrected Muhammad (pbuh)!!!

- Sin relates to religious acts, not mundane acts. The Prophet (pbuh) indeed used to consult the Companions (ra) in mundane affairs, such as in war, household affairs, markets... After all, the Prophet (pbuh) is but a man, as the Qur'an says.

Of course, some Sunni Muslims think that he made some mistakes unintentionally which were refined by some trustworthy companions!!

- I am pretty sure you got the wrong idea here. But for the sake of argument, such as?

Some rare companions used to ask Muhammad (pbuh) arguing on some cases, "Oh Muhammad, is this what God say to you or what you have thought by yourself?"

- Well, yes. If it's a divine command than there is no room for discussion, if it's a personal opinion, then there is room for suggestion.

Really?! How about this one=>Quran 33:33=> As you said" So there exist sin"=>As there should be a sinner to be purified.=> I found your logic an unstable one.

- The two are not analogous. It's because of stuff like that, that the mastery of Arabic is essential to understanding scripture.
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Yassine
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11/13/2015 2:20:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 6:16:48 PM, graceofgod wrote:
a peodophile and a murdering bandit.... well mohammed was, there is no such thing as the prophet mohammed..

- I know that's what you imagine & wish to be the case. It isn't. Enjoy your delusions. I am sure they'll make you feel good about yourself.
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DanMGTOW
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11/13/2015 3:04:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 2:00:29 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/12/2015 6:05:27 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

i enjoy watching different religions try to debate each other
it is the same as 1 person arguing that superman and batman aren't real
but the person has a relationship with spiderman.

- Whatever.

reading the bible is the main reason that i'm an atheist. is your god even able to convince me that it exists?

- Cool story bro.

that was a simple yes or no question.
is your god even able to convince me that it exists?
Yassine
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11/13/2015 3:10:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 3:04:29 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

that was a simple yes or no question.

- Then yes, or no.

is your god even able to convince me that it exists?

- What makes you think He cares to?
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bulproof
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11/13/2015 3:25:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 2:10:23 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/13/2015 2:09:13 AM, bulproof wrote:

Well I am, because I say so.

- Not so fast. You have to prove that you're a prophet first.
An angel came to me in a cave and ordered that I speak Swahili.
Yassine
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11/13/2015 3:27:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 3:25:51 AM, bulproof wrote:

An angel came to me in a cave and ordered that I speak Swahili.

- That's a claim, not a proof.
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DanMGTOW
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11/13/2015 3:47:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 3:10:02 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/13/2015 3:04:29 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

that was a simple yes or no question.

- Then yes, or no.

do you even know what a yes or no question is?


is your god even able to convince me that it exists?

- What makes you think He cares to?

Zues and Odin don't care enough to convince me of their existence either
so why would your gods be any different?

"An angel came to me in a cave and ordered that I speak Swahili."
- That's a claim, not a proof.

i am glad that you are starting to catch on, since there are only claims that mohammed was a prophet, and no one has proven that anyone was actually a prophet
Yassine
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11/13/2015 3:53:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 3:47:48 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

do you even know what a yes or no question is?

- Yes? No?

Zues and Odin don't care enough to convince me of their existence either

- Maybe that's due to their non-existence.

so why would your gods be any different?

- If you're interested enough, you'll probably find the answer.

i am glad that you are starting to catch on, since there are only claims that mohammed was a prophet, and no one has proven that anyone was actually a prophet

- Hold your horses. No one you know of, maybe.
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Composer
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11/13/2015 3:59:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/12/2015 4:23:28 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/12/2015 3:18:49 AM, Composer wrote:

Muhammed was a sinner.

- No. That's impossible, by design. If the Prophet (pbuh) did an act, then that act is automatically not a sin.

Many Muslims believe that he was sinless.

- All of them do, for they must. It is mentioned in the Qur'an.

However, he said this himself: "O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." [Hadith vol. 1, No. 711].

- & he (pbuh) said: "I ask Allah for forgiveness seventy times a day". That doesn't mean he is a sinner. The Qur'an is filled with prophets asking God for forgiveness, including Jesus (pbuh). Asking God for forgiveness is an essential requirement for worship, & doesn't necessarily imply committing sin.

People do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but for moral ones.

- Your understanding of 'forgiveness' is wrong in this case. No creature can worship God as God truly deserves, thus, no creature, no matter how sinless, can worship God perfectly. The Prophet (pbuh) is not asking God to forgive sins he supposedly committed, but rather asking God to forgive the imperfection of his act of worship. Also, I think there is a passage in the Bible where Jesus (pbuh) prayed to God & asked for his forgiveness. I could be wrong though.

You stand corrected -

However, he said this himself: "O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." [Hadith vol. 1, No. 711].

People do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but for moral ones.
Yassine
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11/13/2015 4:01:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 3:59:44 AM, Composer wrote:

You stand corrected -

- You stand ignorant.

However, he said this himself: "O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." [Hadith vol. 1, No. 711].

People do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but for moral ones.

- Then Jesus (pbuh) is a sinner too.
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DanMGTOW
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11/13/2015 4:02:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 3:53:53 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/13/2015 3:47:48 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

do you even know what a yes or no question is?

- Yes? No?
thank you for showing off your ignorance, that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.


Zues and Odin don't care enough to convince me of their existence either

- Maybe that's due to their non-existence.

if you can prove that Zues and Odin don't exist
then i'll prove that your god doesn't exist either


so why would your gods be any different?

- If you're interested enough, you'll probably find the answer.

i am glad that you are starting to catch on, since there are only claims that mohammed was a prophet, and no one has proven that anyone was actually a prophet

- Hold your horses. No one you know of, maybe.

can you prove that anyone was actually a prophet?
Yassine
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11/13/2015 4:09:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 4:02:17 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

thank you for showing off your ignorance, that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

- Not as sad as your slow-witted reaction.

if you can prove that Zues and Odin don't exist

- I can tell how you can prove it.

then i'll prove that your god doesn't exist either

- You have to know my God before you can attempt to prove He doesn't exist!

can you prove that anyone was actually a prophet?

- Certainly. I can prove Muhammad (pbuh) is a prophet.
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DanMGTOW
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11/13/2015 5:39:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 4:09:50 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/13/2015 4:02:17 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

thank you for showing off your ignorance, that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

- Not as sad as your slow-witted reaction.

if you can prove that Zues and Odin don't exist

- I can tell how you can prove it.

and?


then i'll prove that your god doesn't exist either

- You have to know my God before you can attempt to prove He doesn't exist!

and?

can you prove that anyone was actually a prophet?

- Certainly. I can prove Muhammad (pbuh) is a prophet.

and?
Yassine
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11/13/2015 5:44:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 5:39:59 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

and?

- [insert response here]

and?

- [insert response here]

and?

- [insert response here]
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DanMGTOW
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11/13/2015 6:01:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 5:44:52 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/13/2015 5:39:59 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

and?

- [insert response here]

and?

- [insert response here]

and?

- [insert response here]

that is a logical fallacy known as "shifting the burden of proof"
maybe you should spend some time studying logical fallacies
so then maybe you could avoid making them in the future

maybe you can start with
1. why do you believe in the gods that you believe in?
2. why do you believe that your gods actually needed prophets?
3. why do you believe that (insert name here) actually was a prophet?
4. why should anyone else believe your claims on this information?
Yassine
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11/13/2015 6:11:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 6:01:02 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

that is a logical fallacy known as "shifting the burden of proof"
maybe you should spend some time studying logical fallacies
so then maybe you could avoid making them in the future

- & this called the 'making no sense' fallacy.

maybe you can start with
1. why do you believe in the gods that you believe in?

- One God actually. Well, because reason compel me to.

2. why do you believe that your gods actually needed prophets?

- I don't.

3. why do you believe that (insert name here) actually was a prophet?

- Evidence necessitates it.

4. why should anyone else believe your claims on this information?

- They should if they value reason.
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