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The Trinity - is it polytheistic?

MadCornishBiker
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11/14/2015 3:38:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
WHOSOEVER would be saved / needeth before all things to hold fast the Catholic Faith.

2 Which Faith except a man keep whole and undefiled, / without doubt he will perish eternally.

3 Now the Catholic Faith is this, / that we worship one God in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity;

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

6 But the Godhead of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, / the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.

7 Such as the Father is, such is the Son, / and such is the Holy Ghost;

8 The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Ghost uncreated;

9 The Father infinite, the Son infinite, the Holy Ghost infinite;

10 The Father eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Ghost eternal;

11 And yet there are not three eternals, but one eternal;

12 As also there are not three uncreated, nor three infinites, / but one infinite, and one uncreated.

13 So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, / the Holy Ghost almighty;

14 And yet there are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15 So the Father is God, the Son God, the Holy Ghost God;

16 And yet there are not three Gods, / but one God.

17 So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, / the Holy Ghost Lord;

18 And yet there are not three Lords, / but one Lord.

19 For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity / to confess each Person by himself to be both God and Lord;

20 So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion / to speak of three Gods or three Lords.

21 The Father is made of none, / nor created, nor begotten.

22 The Son is of the Father alone; / not made, nor created, but begotten.

23 The Holy Ghost is of the Father and the Son; / not made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24 There is therefore one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; / one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.

25 And in this Trinity there is no before or after, / no greater or less;

26 But all three Persons are co-eternal together, / and co-equal.

27 So that in all ways, as is aforesaid, / both the Trinity is to be worshipped in Unity, and the Unity in Trinity.

28 He therefore that would be saved, / let him thus think of the Trinity.

29 FURTHERMORE, it is necessary to eternal salvation, / that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30 Now the right Faith is that we believe and confess / that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and Man.

31 He is God, of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; / and he is Man, of the Substance of his Mother, born in the world;

32 Perfect God; / perfect Man, of reasoning soul and human flesh subsisting;

33 Equal to the Father as touching his Godhead;/ less than the Father as touching his Manhood.

34 Who although he be God and Man, / yet he is not two, but is one Christ;

35 One, however, not by conversion of Godhead into flesh, / but by taking of Manhood into God;

36 One altogether; / not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person.

37 For as reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ;

38 Who suffered for our salvation, / descended into hell, rose again from the dead;

39 Ascended into heaven, sat down at the right hand of the Father, / from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

40 At whose coming all men must rise again with their bodies, / and shall give account for their own deeds.

41 And they that have done good will go into life eternal; / they that have done evil into eternal fire.

42 THIS is the Catholic Faith, / which except a man do faithfully and stedfastly believe, he cannot be saved.

The most telling line, in the respect of polytheism is line 5 "For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;"

If you have three distinct persons part of a "Godhead"

then you have three Gods.

That is polytheistic, and can only be polytheistic.

That goes 100% against what Christ,and the Apostles taught.

That faith may be catholic, or universal, but it is very wrong indeed.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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11/14/2015 3:44:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It just comes out of the Catholic Bible that you worship.
You people are incredibly stupid thinking that you can deny the Catholic Bible at the same time as you claim it is the basis of your religion.
But religion is by definition stupid.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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11/14/2015 3:56:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am me. In virtual reality game, I have an avatar, but am still me. If I speak to you through the spirit, I am still me. If I took on another body, I am still me. People have no problem with god being a spirit(2 forms of god). They still think polytheistically. Okay. God is god and a spirit. But you then say god is a man too, and now people are confused. I'm confused by the confusion. You can take on 1,350,222 different forms, but you are still yourself.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/14/2015 5:33:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 3:38:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
WHOSOEVER would be saved / needeth before all things to hold fast the Catholic Faith.

2 Which Faith except a man keep whole and undefiled, / without doubt he will perish eternally.

3 Now the Catholic Faith is this, / that we worship one God in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity;

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

6 But the Godhead of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, / the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.

7 Such as the Father is, such is the Son, / and such is the Holy Ghost;

8 The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Ghost uncreated;

9 The Father infinite, the Son infinite, the Holy Ghost infinite;

10 The Father eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Ghost eternal;

11 And yet there are not three eternals, but one eternal;

12 As also there are not three uncreated, nor three infinites, / but one infinite, and one uncreated.

13 So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, / the Holy Ghost almighty;

14 And yet there are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15 So the Father is God, the Son God, the Holy Ghost God;

16 And yet there are not three Gods, / but one God.

17 So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, / the Holy Ghost Lord;

18 And yet there are not three Lords, / but one Lord.

19 For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity / to confess each Person by himself to be both God and Lord;

20 So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion / to speak of three Gods or three Lords.

21 The Father is made of none, / nor created, nor begotten.

22 The Son is of the Father alone; / not made, nor created, but begotten.

23 The Holy Ghost is of the Father and the Son; / not made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24 There is therefore one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; / one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.

25 And in this Trinity there is no before or after, / no greater or less;

26 But all three Persons are co-eternal together, / and co-equal.

27 So that in all ways, as is aforesaid, / both the Trinity is to be worshipped in Unity, and the Unity in Trinity.

28 He therefore that would be saved, / let him thus think of the Trinity.

29 FURTHERMORE, it is necessary to eternal salvation, / that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30 Now the right Faith is that we believe and confess / that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and Man.

31 He is God, of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; / and he is Man, of the Substance of his Mother, born in the world;

32 Perfect God; / perfect Man, of reasoning soul and human flesh subsisting;

33 Equal to the Father as touching his Godhead;/ less than the Father as touching his Manhood.

34 Who although he be God and Man, / yet he is not two, but is one Christ;

35 One, however, not by conversion of Godhead into flesh, / but by taking of Manhood into God;

36 One altogether; / not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person.

37 For as reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ;

38 Who suffered for our salvation, / descended into hell, rose again from the dead;

39 Ascended into heaven, sat down at the right hand of the Father, / from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

40 At whose coming all men must rise again with their bodies, / and shall give account for their own deeds.

41 And they that have done good will go into life eternal; / they that have done evil into eternal fire.

42 THIS is the Catholic Faith, / which except a man do faithfully and stedfastly believe, he cannot be saved.


The most telling line, in the respect of polytheism is line 5 "For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;"

If you have three distinct persons part of a "Godhead"

then you have three Gods.

That is polytheistic, and can only be polytheistic.

That goes 100% against what Christ,and the Apostles taught.

No, what happens is that when confronted with passages that DO teach such a concept, you simply deny them. Of course, the BotchTower saves you the trouble: they simply re-write the passage to accommodate what they wished it said!

Remember, you were also the one who told us that taking a bowl of water and freezing it changes the water into a different substance. It's no longer H20, according to you. You came up with that gem when you attempted to get around the bodily resurrection. Oh, you also explained that what is really buried out yonder in the cemetery is "the personality" - even though it sure looks like a dead body to the rest of us.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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11/14/2015 8:12:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 3:38:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
If you have three distinct persons part of a "Godhead"
then you have three Gods.
That is polytheistic, and can only be polytheistic.
That goes 100% against what Christ,and the Apostles taught.
That faith may be catholic, or universal, but it is very wrong indeed.

Which doesn't make another Christian faith right.

I agree with the JWs on this, MCB: mainstream Chrisianity has inherited polytheistic influences. But Christianity itself isn't terribly consistent with earlier forms of Judaic faith anyway. Especially, pre-Christian Judaism (and a great deal of modern Judaism) had no official notion of personal salvation. As presently articulated, Christian traditions are a graft on top of Judaism -- and it seems the graft has come from multiple sources, including Zoroastrianism and polytheistic influences of the day.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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11/14/2015 11:16:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No, no, no. It is not polytheistic if you claim that all of your gods make up ONE Godhead. DUH! You know, Hinduism is the oldest monotheistic religion.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/14/2015 11:23:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 3:56:33 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I am me. In virtual reality game, I have an avatar, but am still me. If I speak to you through the spirit, I am still me. If I took on another body, I am still me. People have no problem with god being a spirit(2 forms of god). They still think polytheistically. Okay. God is god and a spirit. But you then say god is a man too, and now people are confused. I'm confused by the confusion. You can take on 1,350,222 different forms, but you are still yourself.

I think the problem here is that as you said you are the same "person" just in different forms.

If you state that there are 3 different "persons" who are "God" then yes you have multiple Gods now.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/14/2015 11:40:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 3:38:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The most telling line, in the respect of polytheism is line 5 "For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;"

If you have three distinct persons part of a "Godhead"

then you have three Gods.

That is polytheistic, and can only be polytheistic.

That goes 100% against what Christ,and the Apostles taught.

That faith may be catholic, or universal, but it is very wrong indeed.

All beliefs in an invisible supernatural character or characters ruling the universe are very wrong indeed.
The reason is because ALL such characters are mythical and mythical characters do not rule the universe.
However, they obviously rule the hearts and minds of the superstitious people who believe in them and speak to them as if they actually existed.
Many people are led astray by their belief in imaginary supernatural characters.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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11/15/2015 4:17:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 3:38:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
WHOSOEVER would be saved / needeth before all things to hold fast the Catholic Faith.

2 Which Faith except a man keep whole and undefiled, / without doubt he will perish eternally.

3 Now the Catholic Faith is this, / that we worship one God in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity;

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

6 But the Godhead of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, / the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.

7 Such as the Father is, such is the Son, / and such is the Holy Ghost;

8 The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Ghost uncreated;

9 The Father infinite, the Son infinite, the Holy Ghost infinite;

10 The Father eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Ghost eternal;

11 And yet there are not three eternals, but one eternal;

12 As also there are not three uncreated, nor three infinites, / but one infinite, and one uncreated.

13 So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, / the Holy Ghost almighty;

14 And yet there are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15 So the Father is God, the Son God, the Holy Ghost God;

16 And yet there are not three Gods, / but one God.

17 So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, / the Holy Ghost Lord;

18 And yet there are not three Lords, / but one Lord.

19 For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity / to confess each Person by himself to be both God and Lord;

20 So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion / to speak of three Gods or three Lords.

21 The Father is made of none, / nor created, nor begotten.

22 The Son is of the Father alone; / not made, nor created, but begotten.

23 The Holy Ghost is of the Father and the Son; / not made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24 There is therefore one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; / one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.

25 And in this Trinity there is no before or after, / no greater or less;

26 But all three Persons are co-eternal together, / and co-equal.

27 So that in all ways, as is aforesaid, / both the Trinity is to be worshipped in Unity, and the Unity in Trinity.

28 He therefore that would be saved, / let him thus think of the Trinity.

29 FURTHERMORE, it is necessary to eternal salvation, / that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30 Now the right Faith is that we believe and confess / that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and Man.

31 He is God, of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; / and he is Man, of the Substance of his Mother, born in the world;

32 Perfect God; / perfect Man, of reasoning soul and human flesh subsisting;

33 Equal to the Father as touching his Godhead;/ less than the Father as touching his Manhood.

34 Who although he be God and Man, / yet he is not two, but is one Christ;

35 One, however, not by conversion of Godhead into flesh, / but by taking of Manhood into God;

36 One altogether; / not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person.

37 For as reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ;

38 Who suffered for our salvation, / descended into hell, rose again from the dead;

39 Ascended into heaven, sat down at the right hand of the Father, / from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

40 At whose coming all men must rise again with their bodies, / and shall give account for their own deeds.

41 And they that have done good will go into life eternal; / they that have done evil into eternal fire.

42 THIS is the Catholic Faith, / which except a man do faithfully and stedfastly believe, he cannot be saved.


The most telling line, in the respect of polytheism is line 5 "For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;"

If you have three distinct persons part of a "Godhead"

then you have three Gods.

They share the same divine substance; they are not three separate beings. They are three separate persons that are all one God. The human mind has trouble understanding it, but that is why the Holy Trinity is considered the greatest mystery of the Christian faith.

That is polytheistic, and can only be polytheistic.

That goes 100% against what Christ,and the Apostles taught.

That faith may be catholic, or universal, but it is very wrong indeed.
Nolite Timere
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/15/2015 11:48:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 3:44:00 PM, bulproof wrote:
It just comes out of the Catholic Bible that you worship.
You people are incredibly stupid thinking that you can deny the Catholic Bible at the same time as you claim it is the basis of your religion.
But religion is by definition stupid.

The BIble isn't catholic, it was written before catholicism existed, and the catholics tried to destroy it.

However the trinity goes against everything it teaches.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/15/2015 11:50:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 3:56:33 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I am me. In virtual reality game, I have an avatar, but am still me. If I speak to you through the spirit, I am still me. If I took on another body, I am still me. People have no problem with god being a spirit(2 forms of god). They still think polytheistically. Okay. God is god and a spirit. But you then say god is a man too, and now people are confused. I'm confused by the confusion. You can take on 1,350,222 different forms, but you are still yourself.

God is a spirit anyway, always was, always will be. His son and the angels are all also spirits. Satan and his demons are spirits, so your reasoning makes no sense.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/15/2015 12:03:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 5:33:41 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/14/2015 3:38:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
WHOSOEVER would be saved / needeth before all things to hold fast the Catholic Faith.

2 Which Faith except a man keep whole and undefiled, / without doubt he will perish eternally.

3 Now the Catholic Faith is this, / that we worship one God in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity;

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

6 But the Godhead of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, / the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.

7 Such as the Father is, such is the Son, / and such is the Holy Ghost;

8 The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Ghost uncreated;

9 The Father infinite, the Son infinite, the Holy Ghost infinite;

10 The Father eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Ghost eternal;

11 And yet there are not three eternals, but one eternal;

12 As also there are not three uncreated, nor three infinites, / but one infinite, and one uncreated.

13 So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, / the Holy Ghost almighty;

14 And yet there are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15 So the Father is God, the Son God, the Holy Ghost God;

16 And yet there are not three Gods, / but one God.

17 So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, / the Holy Ghost Lord;

18 And yet there are not three Lords, / but one Lord.

19 For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity / to confess each Person by himself to be both God and Lord;

20 So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion / to speak of three Gods or three Lords.

21 The Father is made of none, / nor created, nor begotten.

22 The Son is of the Father alone; / not made, nor created, but begotten.

23 The Holy Ghost is of the Father and the Son; / not made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24 There is therefore one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; / one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.

25 And in this Trinity there is no before or after, / no greater or less;

26 But all three Persons are co-eternal together, / and co-equal.

27 So that in all ways, as is aforesaid, / both the Trinity is to be worshipped in Unity, and the Unity in Trinity.

28 He therefore that would be saved, / let him thus think of the Trinity.

29 FURTHERMORE, it is necessary to eternal salvation, / that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30 Now the right Faith is that we believe and confess / that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and Man.

31 He is God, of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; / and he is Man, of the Substance of his Mother, born in the world;

32 Perfect God; / perfect Man, of reasoning soul and human flesh subsisting;

33 Equal to the Father as touching his Godhead;/ less than the Father as touching his Manhood.

34 Who although he be God and Man, / yet he is not two, but is one Christ;

35 One, however, not by conversion of Godhead into flesh, / but by taking of Manhood into God;

36 One altogether; / not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person.

37 For as reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ;

38 Who suffered for our salvation, / descended into hell, rose again from the dead;

39 Ascended into heaven, sat down at the right hand of the Father, / from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

40 At whose coming all men must rise again with their bodies, / and shall give account for their own deeds.

41 And they that have done good will go into life eternal; / they that have done evil into eternal fire.

42 THIS is the Catholic Faith, / which except a man do faithfully and stedfastly believe, he cannot be saved.


The most telling line, in the respect of polytheism is line 5 "For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;"

If you have three distinct persons part of a "Godhead"

then you have three Gods.

That is polytheistic, and can only be polytheistic.

That goes 100% against what Christ,and the Apostles taught.

No, what happens is that when confronted with passages that DO teach such a concept, you simply deny them. Of course, the BotchTower saves you the trouble: they simply re-write the passage to accommodate what they wished it said!

The problem there Anna is that there is not one passage in scripture which, properly translated, supports the trinity teaching, and for every passage that may appear to support it there are numerous others that absolutely destroy it.

If you have a godhead of equals you cannot have one in submission to the other, and scripture clearly shows that Christ was and is subject to his father.

If you have a trinity of equals, you cannot have one worshiping the other, and scripture clearly shows that Christ did, and still does worship his father.

If you have a trinity of three separate persons you have polythiesm, simple as.


Remember, you were also the one who told us that taking a bowl of water and freezing it changes the water into a different substance. It's no longer H20, according to you. You came up with that gem when you attempted to get around the bodily resurrection. Oh, you also explained that what is really buried out yonder in the cemetery is "the personality" - even though it sure looks like a dead body to the rest of us.

That is not even relevant to this discussion.

No-one denies that father and son are of the same substance. Both are spirits.

As are the angels.

As are Satan and is demons, even if they are, as scripture tells us, wicked spirits.

All are of the same substance because that is how Jehovah and his son working together created them created them, as well as how Jehovah created his son.

Don't forget, when Jehovah began his creative work there was nothing but his own substance in existence, so even the physical realm is created from that substance, albeit greatly changed, which means it is a simple process to change the physical back into the spirit.

It is nothing like the same as changing water into either ice, or vapour, or even condensation.

No Anna, the trinity doesn't exist. That is why the Catholics had to change, try to destroy, and finally try to keep restricted to the clergy. Because once the people had the Bible in their own hands they knew that some at least would realise the lies that they had been taught, including the trinity.
MadCornishBiker
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11/15/2015 12:06:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 8:12:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 11/14/2015 3:38:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
If you have three distinct persons part of a "Godhead"
then you have three Gods.
That is polytheistic, and can only be polytheistic.
That goes 100% against what Christ,and the Apostles taught.
That faith may be catholic, or universal, but it is very wrong indeed.

Which doesn't make another Christian faith right.

I agree with the JWs on this, MCB: mainstream Chrisianity has inherited polytheistic influences. But Christianity itself isn't terribly consistent with earlier forms of Judaic faith anyway. Especially, pre-Christian Judaism (and a great deal of modern Judaism) had no official notion of personal salvation. As presently articulated, Christian traditions are a graft on top of Judaism -- and it seems the graft has come from multiple sources, including Zoroastrianism and polytheistic influences of the day.

True Christianity has been getting more and more consistent since it was resurrected in the mid 19th century. They had a lot to learn and it took some time to learn it, but they got there.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/15/2015 12:11:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 11:16:03 PM, tstor wrote:
No, no, no. It is not polytheistic if you claim that all of your gods make up ONE Godhead. DUH! You know, Hinduism is the oldest monotheistic religion.

No I don't know that. Jehovah was around long before any of the false gods were, long before they rebelled and made themselves gods.

Sorry, but if they are three gods it is polytheistic even if there were truly to worship as a committee, which is all the trinity is, a committee of three.

At least I see where your sticking point comes in.
MadCornishBiker
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11/15/2015 12:13:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 11:23:11 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 11/14/2015 3:56:33 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I am me. In virtual reality game, I have an avatar, but am still me. If I speak to you through the spirit, I am still me. If I took on another body, I am still me. People have no problem with god being a spirit(2 forms of god). They still think polytheistically. Okay. God is god and a spirit. But you then say god is a man too, and now people are confused. I'm confused by the confusion. You can take on 1,350,222 different forms, but you are still yourself.

I think the problem here is that as you said you are the same "person" just in different forms.

If you state that there are 3 different "persons" who are "God" then yes you have multiple Gods now.

Which is what the trinity teaches. It clearly states that they are individuals, but all spirits.

However the angels are all spirits as are Satan and his demons, so being of the same substance is no argument for their being a trinity.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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11/15/2015 1:13:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I did not read the entire OP my response will lean more towards the title.

The Trinity, polytheism, three gods in one blah blah blah it gets boring people.

The emphasis shouldn't really be on "are they gods", it should be more on what is the purpose or function. In other words it doesn't really matter if one believes they are three individuals or two or one, that is irrelevant if the focus is on application, because there is no denying the three aspects in scripture.
If one applies for example the "Holy Spirit" in their life or to their beliefs what does it matter if they believe it is a Person or it is an application or function? The Spirit of God is an unmistakable attribute in scripture and in the NT the Spirit becomes an integral role in the life of a believer, in other words it serves as a purpose and I believe a lot of the dispute to be a big distraction from the core of the matter and just another tool to divide believers.

I personally have always viewed the three expressions as individuals and recognize them as the Godhead but my emphasis is on another spiritual principle, and that is unity. When one is unified in spirit, intent and thought they are essentially acting as a single unit, that is why the scripture references us as "gods", or as Jesus identifies believers as one with God, because spirituality becomes a union with God, a merging into "one" so essentially there is no division, in the trinity you have perfect accord, three parts of God acting as One God because essentially they are even if the Father is "where the buck stops".
"The Father, Son and Spirit" are just that, a perfect union, three acting as a single unit. Jesus says "He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father"? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? ".

Here you have Jesus saying...
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

This is obviously distinguishing the Father from the Spirit (or function if you must), whether or not one believes It to be an individual or an application really becomes an irrelevant matter because it's function in this verse is precise.

My answer is basically it isn't anymore "polytheistic" than saying we are gods or Jesus saying we are one with God, I think the emphasis should be more on purpose or what is the scripture trying to convey through these attributes.
bulproof
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11/15/2015 1:54:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 11:48:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/14/2015 3:44:00 PM, bulproof wrote:
It just comes out of the Catholic Bible that you worship.
You people are incredibly stupid thinking that you can deny the Catholic Bible at the same time as you claim it is the basis of your religion.
But religion is by definition stupid.

The BIble isn't catholic, it was written before catholicism existed, and the catholics tried to destroy it.

However the trinity goes against everything it teaches.
Produce a BIBLE that the Catholics didn't produce, little clown.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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11/15/2015 2:10:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Trinity...three in one.
What is the problem?

Water is a three in one.
1. Water is Liquid
2. Water is solid/ice
3. Water is vapour/steam.

Water has all those properties. Just like God is the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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11/15/2015 2:15:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I believe it is polytheistic. But I pose this question. If it weren't would it change anything? God can be or do what he wants, so if he says trinity, I suppose that is just how it is.

I just simply read Jesus' own words.
"The Father(God) and I are one."

OR

"In the beginning was the word(Jesus), and the word was with god(the Father), and the word was god. Sounds simple to me.
Harikrish
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11/15/2015 2:21:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:15:07 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I believe it is polytheistic. But I pose this question. If it weren't would it change anything? God can be or do what he wants, so if he says trinity, I suppose that is just how it is.

I just simply read Jesus' own words.
"The Father(God) and I are one."

OR

"In the beginning was the word(Jesus), and the word was with god(the Father), and the word was god. Sounds simple to me.

Not so fast.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal lif."
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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11/15/2015 2:29:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 3:44:00 PM, bulproof wrote:
It just comes out of the Catholic Bible that you worship.
You people are incredibly stupid thinking that you can deny the Catholic Bible at the same time as you claim it is the basis of your religion.
But religion is by definition stupid.

It must be in Webster's dictionary. "Religion is stupid". I can post a link of how to associate with and speak like a grown adult. Would you like it?
bulproof
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11/15/2015 2:35:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:21:56 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/15/2015 2:15:07 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I believe it is polytheistic. But I pose this question. If it weren't would it change anything? God can be or do what he wants, so if he says trinity, I suppose that is just how it is.

I just simply read Jesus' own words.
"The Father(God) and I are one."

OR

"In the beginning was the word(Jesus), and the word was with god(the Father), and the word was god. Sounds simple to me.

Not so fast.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal lif."
That should read
For god was so pissed off with himself for f*cking up that he demanded a bloody human sacrifice in order that his pathetic ego was consoled and then refused to rescind his unjust punishment anyway.
That's because he didn't order any punishment because he doesn't exist and death is simply a part of life.
It's the cavemen who didn't understand death who created the ridiculous gods you believe in.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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11/15/2015 2:36:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Even though I'm not a JW anymore and don't agree with the majority of what they say, I do think this is one of the most insanely retarded things (among others) that the Catholic Church goes on about.

According to the bible, Jesus prayed, asked for strength, and was sent by God, yet was somehow the same as God. Yet, they don't don't worship two gods but instead ONE god.

WTF Catholics. Do any of you know even rudimentary maths? Or scripture? I only recall vague scripture ever hinting at Jesus and God being similar. I don't think Jesus ever said that he was the exact same as God, regardless of translation, far less the Holy Ghost also being God or Jesus.

In the name of Daddy, Junior and Spooky, what is wrong with your logic...
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
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11/15/2015 2:54:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:10:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Trinity...three in one.
What is the problem?

Water is a three in one.
1. Water is Liquid
2. Water is solid/ice
3. Water is vapour/steam.

Water has all those properties. Just like God is the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.

Yeah, but all three conditions are still water. In the case of Daddy, Junior and Spooky, your comparing apples with oranges.

Solid water comes from liquid water, but they aren't all the same conditions at the same time.

Jesus was SENT by the FATHER.
Jesus PRAYED to the FATHER
Jesus ASKED for STRENGTH from the FATHER

Furthermore, Mathew 12:31 clearly shows that the Holy Ghost and Jesus are separate beings

John 14:1, 24 and 28 ALL show Jesus and God as separate individuals.

But anyway, God clearly has a fetish for confusion as he also states in that chapter that the Son and Father are within each other....whatever that means.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
bulproof
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11/15/2015 2:59:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:29:00 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 11/14/2015 3:44:00 PM, bulproof wrote:
It just comes out of the Catholic Bible that you worship.
You people are incredibly stupid thinking that you can deny the Catholic Bible at the same time as you claim it is the basis of your religion.
But religion is by definition stupid.

It must be in Webster's dictionary. "Religion is stupid". I can post a link of how to associate with and speak like a grown adult. Would you like it?

If you have that link, then for your sake why haven't you used it. Sheesh. All, no not all, a portion of, well a small part of your idiocy could have been avoided, I am being exceedingly generous mind you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
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11/15/2015 3:40:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:35:21 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/15/2015 2:21:56 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/15/2015 2:15:07 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I believe it is polytheistic. But I pose this question. If it weren't would it change anything? God can be or do what he wants, so if he says trinity, I suppose that is just how it is.

I just simply read Jesus' own words.
"The Father(God) and I are one."

OR

"In the beginning was the word(Jesus), and the word was with god(the Father), and the word was god. Sounds simple to me.

Not so fast.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal lif."
That should read
For god was so pissed off with himself for f*cking up that he demanded a bloody human sacrifice in order that his pathetic ego was consoled and then refused to rescind his unjust punishment anyway.
That's because he didn't order any punishment because he doesn't exist and death is simply a part of life.
It's the cavemen who didn't understand death who created the ridiculous gods you believe in.

That is surprising for someone like you who accepts monkeys as your ancestors and with the same limited monkey mindset believes you can dwell in the mnd of God.
Even cavemen never accepted monkeys as their ancestors. Only modern atheists like you have found equals in early primates. That is why Darwin is more relevant that ever. His book The Descent of Man accurately describes your current situation.
The bible is a book that teaches you about "ascending" quite the opposite of Darwin's common descent.
desmac
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11/15/2015 3:53:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:10:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Trinity...three in one.
What is the problem?

Water is a three in one.
1. Water is Liquid
2. Water is solid/ice
3. Water is vapour/steam.

Water has all those properties. Just like God is the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.

Water is four in one, it is also plasma.
Harikrish
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11/15/2015 3:53:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:54:01 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 11/15/2015 2:10:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Trinity...three in one.
What is the problem?

Water is a three in one.
1. Water is Liquid
2. Water is solid/ice
3. Water is vapour/steam.

Water has all those properties. Just like God is the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.

Yeah, but all three conditions are still water. In the case of Daddy, Junior and Spooky, your comparing apples with oranges.

Solid water comes from liquid water, but they aren't all the same conditions at the same time.

You own logic accepts different conditions can cause the entity to appear different.
1. God is spirit
2. God becomes human in Jeus
3. God is holy counsellor, the Holy Ghost.
Different functions and different conditions. But like water the same entity. Duh!!

Jesus was SENT by the FATHER.
Jesus PRAYED to the FATHER
Jesus ASKED for STRENGTH from the FATHER

Furthermore, Mathew 12:31 clearly shows that the Holy Ghost and Jesus are separate beings

John 14:1, 24 and 28 ALL show Jesus and God as separate individuals.

But anyway, God clearly has a fetish for confusion as he also states in that chapter that the Son and Father are within each other....whatever that means.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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11/15/2015 3:55:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:21:56 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/15/2015 2:15:07 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
I believe it is polytheistic. But I pose this question. If it weren't would it change anything? God can be or do what he wants, so if he says trinity, I suppose that is just how it is.

I just simply read Jesus' own words.
"The Father(God) and I are one."

OR

"In the beginning was the word(Jesus), and the word was with god(the Father), and the word was god. Sounds simple to me.

Not so fast.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal lif."

For Harikrish surely the divine trinity should be brahma, Vishnu and shiva.
DanneJeRusse
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11/15/2015 3:57:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 2:10:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Trinity...three in one.
What is the problem?

Water is a three in one.
1. Water is Liquid
2. Water is solid/ice
3. Water is vapour/steam.

Water has all those properties. Just like God is the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.

So, what you're saying is that if we toss God into a freezer, He becomes his son, and if we light a fire under his a$$, He becomes the holy ghost?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth