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Negative beliefs

IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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11/15/2015 5:18:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Please, share with us some of your negative and defeating beliefs. Be sure and make some posts about how it is making your life better. While you are at it, bash Christianity.

I'm making this thread because it will be easier to keep people on topic.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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11/15/2015 6:41:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 5:18:42 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Please, share with us some of your negative and defeating beliefs. Be sure and make some posts about how it is making your life better. While you are at it, bash Christianity.

I'm making this thread because it will be easier to keep people on topic.

Negative and defeating beliefs that make my life better, Hmm, I'll be back in a few hours.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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11/15/2015 7:27:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 5:18:42 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Please, share with us some of your negative and defeating beliefs.

I'm not aware of any in myself, IvS, but here are some that have been recommended to me:

* I was born wrong, due to the actions of ancestors who cannot be proven to have ever existed;
* I can only be made right by overthrowing my conscience and reason and submitting to practices and beliefs that I think are wrong;
* If I hold that it's wrong for anyone to demand this of me, then I am a materialist, a hedonist, an anarchist and an enemy of civilisation. I cannot be trusted to teach in a school or run for public office, and although a law-abiding citizen, I should be viewed as among the least trustworthy in society;
* If I demand to know by what authority anyone imposes this on another, then I am also proud, intellectual, science-worshipping, defiant of established authority and devoid of sensitivity;
* Despite having a long-time fascination for human beliefs, I cannot possibly know anything about them because although being human and a careful researcher, I do not believe;
* Despite also having great regard for history, I cannot know anything about religious history nearly so well as someone who has never studied history, but only religion, does;
* Despite being interested in cosmology and biology I also cannot know anything about cosmogenesis or biogenesis nearly so well as someone who has never studied cosmology or biology, but only religion, does;
* Although a long-time supporter of a national centre for ethics, and having run professional development programs in ethics for both students and my own staff, I must nevertheless explain where my morality comes from to those whose morality comes from unquestioning compliance with cruel and unchallenged traditions, who will otherwise hold that I have no morality at all; and
* Despite having long upheld the key importance of critical thought, empirical investigation, secular education, self-expression and compassion in human development, I cannot have a purpose of my own because I have not had that purpose handed to me by a dogma that doesn't care what purpose I might own for myself.

Now, I didn't produce those negative and defeating beliefs IvS. They were handed to me. Since I have no use for them, I warmly invite you to receive back any that you yourself may have produced in your many angry, reactionary posts about the absolute rightness of your own views.

I cannot guess what use you might have for them either, but to the extent that it's only angry religious zealots producing them, I warmly invite you to consume your own product for a change.

While you are at it, bash Christianity.
Has your mirrored reflection ever bashed you, IvS?

Then neither then can these words.

On the other hand, if any prick your conscience, then I invite you to consider whether it's my words that do so, or your deeds beneath.
dee-em
Posts: 6,444
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11/15/2015 10:32:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 5:18:42 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Please, share with us some of your negative and defeating beliefs. Be sure and make some posts about how it is making your life better. While you are at it, bash Christianity.

I'm making this thread because it will be easier to keep people on topic.

I have none of my own IVS5, but here are some from PGA:

http://www.debate.org...

I accept the authority of the Bible, not your dumb authoritarian position that has no certainty in itself because has no absolute authority that can be appealed to. It lacks the grounding for any absolutes but smuggles in that one that refutes itself.

You are blind and deaf to reasonableness of the argument because before we even go there you have ruled out God. And when the veneer of your worldview is stripped away and we get to the core there is nothing there to support rationality either. You live in an indifferent universe that has no mind or intention behind it, just dumb illogical chance plus matter, plus energy. Mix them all together and what do you get? You get nothing because chance is incapable of sustaining anything.

You live in a world in which it is impossible to know truth except when you borrow from the Christian worldview. Your smug words that pretends to know how things really happened is just a front for the insecurity of a worldview devoid of God. It wants its autonomy so it can dictate to others the way things are and that is the way it sees them. "It ain't true until I say its true." Arrogance at its uttermost.

Your worldview begins and ends with yourself as the final arbitrator, the highest authority in that you are the one who decides ultimately what is true and what is not. Mine begins and ends with God as that authority. Your worldview begins with the presupposition that this God does not exist. Mine begins with the presupposition that He does. My worldview can make sense of the universe because it has what is necessary to make sense of it - ultimate revealing Mind. Yours cannot. It begins with its limited self and looks back to blind, irrational matter, plus energy, plus chance, plus time without intent or direction. You are welcome to the insanity and stupidity of such a beginning.


Will that suffice, or should I quote some ethang5 and skipsaweirdo for you? Perhaps you would like some of your own quotes to refresh your memory?
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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11/15/2015 4:17:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 7:27:29 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
I'm not aware of any in myself, IvS, but here are some that have been recommended to me:

* I was born wrong, due to the actions of ancestors who cannot be proven to have ever existed;
* I can only be made right by overthrowing my conscience and reason and submitting to practices and beliefs that I think are wrong;
* If I hold that it's wrong for anyone to demand this of me, then I am a materialist, a hedonist, an anarchist and an enemy of civilisation. I cannot be trusted to teach in a school or run for public office, and although a law-abiding citizen, I should be viewed as among the least trustworthy in society;
* If I demand to know by what authority anyone imposes this on another, then I am also proud, intellectual, science-worshipping, defiant of established authority and devoid of sensitivity;
* Despite having a long-time fascination for human beliefs, I cannot possibly know anything about them because although being human and a careful researcher, I do not believe;
* Despite also having great regard for history, I cannot know anything about religious history nearly so well as someone who has never studied history, but only religion, does;
* Despite being interested in cosmology and biology I also cannot know anything about cosmogenesis or biogenesis nearly so well as someone who has never studied cosmology or biology, but only religion, does;
* Although a long-time supporter of a national centre for ethics, and having run professional development programs in ethics for both students and my own staff, I must nevertheless explain where my morality comes from to those whose morality comes from unquestioning compliance with cruel and unchallenged traditions, who will otherwise hold that I have no morality at all; and
* Despite having long upheld the key importance of critical thought, empirical investigation, secular education, self-expression and compassion in human development, I cannot have a purpose of my own because I have not had that purpose handed to me by a dogma that doesn't care what purpose I might own for myself.

Now, I didn't produce those negative and defeating beliefs IvS. They were handed to me. Since I have no use for them, I warmly invite you to receive back any that you yourself may have produced in your many angry, reactionary posts about the absolute rightness of your own views.

Yea, what he said.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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11/15/2015 9:16:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 7:27:29 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 11/15/2015 5:18:42 AM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Please, share with us some of your negative and defeating beliefs.

I'm not aware of any in myself, IvS, but here are some that have been recommended to me:

* I was born wrong, due to the actions of ancestors who cannot be proven to have ever existed;
* I can only be made right by overthrowing my conscience and reason and submitting to practices and beliefs that I think are wrong;
* If I hold that it's wrong for anyone to demand this of me, then I am a materialist, a hedonist, an anarchist and an enemy of civilisation. I cannot be trusted to teach in a school or run for public office, and although a law-abiding citizen, I should be viewed as among the least trustworthy in society;
* If I demand to know by what authority anyone imposes this on another, then I am also proud, intellectual, science-worshipping, defiant of established authority and devoid of sensitivity;
* Despite having a long-time fascination for human beliefs, I cannot possibly know anything about them because although being human and a careful researcher, I do not believe;
* Despite also having great regard for history, I cannot know anything about religious history nearly so well as someone who has never studied history, but only religion, does;
* Despite being interested in cosmology and biology I also cannot know anything about cosmogenesis or biogenesis nearly so well as someone who has never studied cosmology or biology, but only religion, does;
* Although a long-time supporter of a national centre for ethics, and having run professional development programs in ethics for both students and my own staff, I must nevertheless explain where my morality comes from to those whose morality comes from unquestioning compliance with cruel and unchallenged traditions, who will otherwise hold that I have no morality at all; and
* Despite having long upheld the key importance of critical thought, empirical investigation, secular education, self-expression and compassion in human development, I cannot have a purpose of my own because I have not had that purpose handed to me by a dogma that doesn't care what purpose I might own for myself.

Now, I didn't produce those negative and defeating beliefs IvS. They were handed to me. Since I have no use for them, I warmly invite you to receive back any that you yourself may have produced in your many angry, reactionary posts about the absolute rightness of your own views.

I cannot guess what use you might have for them either, but to the extent that it's only angry religious zealots producing them, I warmly invite you to consume your own product for a change.

While you are at it, bash Christianity.
Has your mirrored reflection ever bashed you, IvS?

Then neither then can these words.

On the other hand, if any prick your conscience, then I invite you to consider whether it's my words that do so, or your deeds beneath.

Whicj Christian practices do you find cruel? I go to church, am friendly to the other members, we are taught to love god and each other and treat each other with respect. We sing some moving songs together, support each other in class, and then we go home. My Christian practices are:

1)I pray over and thank god for my meals.
2)I go to church. We sing and listen to a message on god's love and how we ought love one another. We pray together. I go home.

That's about it. I have no Christian acquaintences that do much anything different than that and none of them are a threat to society and we practice no "cruel practices". Are there disturbed people out there? Yes. Atheists, Christians, etc. all have a yahoo here or there. No group is immune. But Christians, as a whole live normal lives and hurt no one. Islam seems to have a different cause and effect but their beliefs are much, much more extreme, and kids are taught violent behaviors and on purpose. Are ALL Muslims this way? No. But the nature of the teachings of Islam allow for much more violent behavior as a whole. The problem here is Islamteaches a lot of twisted ideas and on purpose. A "Christian" doing something "crazy or violent" means they ignored the teaching. This is the difference. To kill in the name of Christisnity means you have directly disobeyed the teachings of Christ. To kill in Islam means you HAVE obeyed the teachings of Muhammed. And Atheists come in so many variations and forms that it is harder to pinpoint why Atheist killers kill. But Christianity and Atheism have no "teaching" that teaches killing of others. Islam does have killing in its teaching.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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11/15/2015 10:14:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 9:16:48 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Which Christian practices do you find cruel? I go to church, am friendly to the other members, we are taught to love god and each other and treat each other with respect. We sing some moving songs together, support each other in class, and then we go home. My Christian practices are:
1)I pray over and thank god for my meals.
2)I go to church. We sing and listen to a message on god's love and how we ought love one another. We pray together. I go home.
Firstly, let's acknowledge that you're running off-topic in your own thread. That's okay because it's a kind of meta-thread, but please don't blame me if the discussion now meanders. :)

But that said: yes, after all that lovin', you go home, log on, and rant hatred at the same groups of strangers. Repeatedly, week after week.

Why?

Tell me, IvS, if your life is so fulfilling, your love so abundant, and your faith such a comfort, why do you still need to do that?

I don't have your faith, yet in the time I've spent on DDO, I've created no threads to explore how bad Christianity is, or why Islam is the number one enemy of human civilisation. Some atheists do, but I don't feel the need to do that.

Yet I can tell you that as an atheist, I find myself in receipt of an endless stream of negativity from religious zealots, ranging from the evangelists to the fanatics. From what I've seen, it's not enough for them that religion makes them feel happy and virtuous. They need to know that everyone without their faith is somehow less happy, less virtuous than they -- and if you deny it, they attack you, demonise you and put words into your mouth until they persuade themselves that you're lying.

Why would anyone need to do that if their faith makes them content?

You asked at top what I think makes Christianity cruel. My answer is: in its generally-recognised form it's an absolutist salvation faith. Meaning: it has invented a problem everyone is supposed to have, then claimed it has the patent on the sole solution, and insisted that nobody can be kind, happy, decent or fulfilled unless they're gobbling spoonfuls of what Christian dogma is cooking.

Firstly, that's outright false. Secondly, it's also lazy, conceited, deceitful and malicious to say so.

To talk about the human condition and offer inspiration philosophically is one thing, but to claim dogmatically that there is no legitimacy to any other thought than one's own is quite another. How can that not be arrogant, bigoted and hate-filled?

Christianity likes to think of itself as a faith of love, but my experience is that it loves only those who are, or are open to becoming Christian. To everyone else it's condescending, paternalistic and enormously arrogant: the one-time state faith of the Roman Empire that has never dismantled its sense of imperial privilege, or its historically inaccurate belief that it's the sole flame-keeper of world civilisation, and self-appointed watchdog of world morals.

So yes, I find that belief both cruel and stupid.