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homosexuality isn't a sin

icetiger200
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11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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11/16/2015 2:24:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

Only bigots think homosexuality is wrong or abnormal!
AVicu
Posts: 126
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11/16/2015 2:32:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

Moe'sass sounds like he was gay with a name like that. Maybe there is to gods one male one female ldk
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/16/2015 5:32:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

I think you need to get a more accurate translation.

Leviticus 18:22American Standard Version (ASV)

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

That is an outright condemnation of homosexuality. As you rightly point out, the translation you have quoted doesn't even make sense.


Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

I have no idea how you get that from the passage. I can only suggest that it is wishful thinking on your part.

Romans 1:25-28American Standard Version (ASV)

25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Yes, you definitely need either a more accurate translation, or a less fertile imagination.


Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Translated the way they are fits in with the rest of scripture though.

You really are struggling to vindicate the way you want things to be aren't you.

It is a futile exercise, since the truth will catch up with you one day. Better to face it now while it can do you some good.


Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

Yes it is because in fact it refers to all forms of fornication including homosexuality.


And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

That may be your view, but it the eyes of God and his sion it is a very serous sin.

You obviously haven't read the account abut Sodom and Gomorrah.

They were extremely welcoming to strangers and in fact wanted to have intercourse with the two men, who were in fact materialised angels, who came to visit Lot.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for the great sin that Jehovah found in there which included, but was not restricted to, homosexuality.

Homosexuality, otherwise known as a man lying with another man, was condemned in both the Hebrews Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, and was also included in the condemnation of all forms of fornication, which the Bible describes as any form of sexual behaviour other than in the marital union of one man and one woman.

The problem you are up against is that the only form of sexual practice that is authorised in scripture is that in the marital bond entered into between a man and a woman.

Anything else, including homosexuality, is out.

There is not one passage which authorises a marriage between two people of the same sex.
Hitchian
Posts: 764
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11/16/2015 5:49:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
For the second time in a row, I have to agree with MadCornishBiker. The Bible explicitly condemns homosexuality, both in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

You want to treat Christianity as though it's some sort of pan Asian buffet from which you feel free to pick and choose the bits you find palatable? By all means, do. Just don't go around calling it Christian. It is your own doctrine at work. Kudos to you for rejecting that which is objectionable in Christianity.

Just own up to it.
Maccabee
Posts: 1,242
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11/16/2015 6:18:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 2:24:20 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

Only bigots think homosexuality is wrong or abnormal!
Only bigots think that polygamy, bestiality, and pedophilia is wrong or abnormal. See the logic here?
Scripture, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion, not science

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

"If guns are the cause of crimes then aren't matches the cause of arson?" D. Boys

"If the death penalty is government sanctioned killing then isn't inprisonment is government sanction kidnapping?" D. B

"Why do you trust the government with machine guns but not honest citizens?" D. B

All those who are pro-death (abortion) is already born
AVicu
Posts: 126
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11/16/2015 6:22:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 5:32:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

I think you need to get a more accurate translation.

Leviticus 18:22American Standard Version (ASV)

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

That is an outright condemnation of homosexuality. As you rightly point out, the translation you have quoted doesn't even make sense.


Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

I have no idea how you get that from the passage. I can only suggest that it is wishful thinking on your part.

Romans 1:25-28American Standard Version (ASV)

25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Yes, you definitely need either a more accurate translation, or a less fertile imagination.


Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Translated the way they are fits in with the rest of scripture though.

You really are struggling to vindicate the way you want things to be aren't you.

It is a futile exercise, since the truth will catch up with you one day. Better to face it now while it can do you some good.


Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

Yes it is because in fact it refers to all forms of fornication including homosexuality.


And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;


That may be your view, but it the eyes of God and his sion it is a very serous sin.

You obviously haven't read the account abut Sodom and Gomorrah.

They were extremely welcoming to strangers and in fact wanted to have intercourse with the two men, who were in fact materialised angels, who came to visit Lot.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for the great sin that Jehovah found in there which included, but was not restricted to, homosexuality.

Homosexuality, otherwise known as a man lying with another man, was condemned in both the Hebrews Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, and was also included in the condemnation of all forms of fornication, which the Bible describes as any form of sexual behaviour other than in the marital union of one man and one woman.

The problem you are up against is that the only form of sexual practice that is authorised in scripture is that in the marital bond entered into between a man and a woman.

Anything else, including homosexuality, is out.

There is not one passage which authorises a marriage between two people of the same sex.

So are you saying one night in bangkok and the wolds your shell?
Maccabee
Posts: 1,242
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11/16/2015 6:26:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 6:22:14 PM, AVicu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 5:32:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

I think you need to get a more accurate translation.

Leviticus 18:22American Standard Version (ASV)

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

That is an outright condemnation of homosexuality. As you rightly point out, the translation you have quoted doesn't even make sense.


Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

I have no idea how you get that from the passage. I can only suggest that it is wishful thinking on your part.

Romans 1:25-28American Standard Version (ASV)

25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Yes, you definitely need either a more accurate translation, or a less fertile imagination.


Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Translated the way they are fits in with the rest of scripture though.

You really are struggling to vindicate the way you want things to be aren't you.

It is a futile exercise, since the truth will catch up with you one day. Better to face it now while it can do you some good.


Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

Yes it is because in fact it refers to all forms of fornication including homosexuality.


And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;


That may be your view, but it the eyes of God and his sion it is a very serous sin.

You obviously haven't read the account abut Sodom and Gomorrah.

They were extremely welcoming to strangers and in fact wanted to have intercourse with the two men, who were in fact materialised angels, who came to visit Lot.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for the great sin that Jehovah found in there which included, but was not restricted to, homosexuality.

Homosexuality, otherwise known as a man lying with another man, was condemned in both the Hebrews Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, and was also included in the condemnation of all forms of fornication, which the Bible describes as any form of sexual behaviour other than in the marital union of one man and one woman.

The problem you are up against is that the only form of sexual practice that is authorised in scripture is that in the marital bond entered into between a man and a woman.

Anything else, including homosexuality, is out.

There is not one passage which authorises a marriage between two people of the same sex.

So are you saying one night in bangkok and the wolds your shell?

Not sure what you're talking about.
Scripture, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion, not science

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

"If guns are the cause of crimes then aren't matches the cause of arson?" D. Boys

"If the death penalty is government sanctioned killing then isn't inprisonment is government sanction kidnapping?" D. B

"Why do you trust the government with machine guns but not honest citizens?" D. B

All those who are pro-death (abortion) is already born
icetiger200
Posts: 33
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11/16/2015 8:38:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 5:32:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

I think you need to get a more accurate translation.

Leviticus 18:22American Standard Version (ASV)

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

That is an outright condemnation of homosexuality. As you rightly point out, the translation you have quoted doesn't even make sense.


Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

I have no idea how you get that from the passage. I can only suggest that it is wishful thinking on your part.

Romans 1:25-28American Standard Version (ASV)

25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Yes, you definitely need either a more accurate translation, or a less fertile imagination.


Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Translated the way they are fits in with the rest of scripture though.

You really are struggling to vindicate the way you want things to be aren't you.

It is a futile exercise, since the truth will catch up with you one day. Better to face it now while it can do you some good.


Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

Yes it is because in fact it refers to all forms of fornication including homosexuality.


And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;


That may be your view, but it the eyes of God and his sion it is a very serous sin.

You obviously haven't read the account abut Sodom and Gomorrah.

They were extremely welcoming to strangers and in fact wanted to have intercourse with the two men, who were in fact materialised angels, who came to visit Lot.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for the great sin that Jehovah found in there which included, but was not restricted to, homosexuality.

Homosexuality, otherwise known as a man lying with another man, was condemned in both the Hebrews Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, and was also included in the condemnation of all forms of fornication, which the Bible describes as any form of sexual behaviour other than in the marital union of one man and one woman.

The problem you are up against is that the only form of sexual practice that is authorised in scripture is that in the marital bond entered into between a man and a woman.

Anything else, including homosexuality, is out.

There is not one passage which authorises a marriage between two people of the same sex.

No the ASV is incorrect, so is the KJV, and possibly all modern translations, the Masoretic text is very clear.

"u"ath(and"with)zkr (male) la(not) thshkb (you-shall-lie-down) ;mshkbi (beds-of) ashe (woman) thuobe (ritually unclean) eua (she)" this is not controversial, just ignored by translators, because it doesn't fit their presumptions.

Romans, 'Nature' in Koine Greek (NT Greek if you prefer) is 'Physis' this can mean simply custom, or something like 'physics' and a lot of other things in between, in the passage concerned, the actual word used is 'physiken' (physuken in some mss) the suffix 'ken' gives ownership of the 'nature' to the actors. So the passage condemns those who act against their own nature, so clearly endorses homosexuality.

No Genesis 19 doesn't condemn homosexuality, it is never mentioned in the text. At best you have a case of attempted rape. There's some incest mind you that seems fine with old Yahweh.

Genesis actually doesn't describe any particular sin, just that there was great sin in Sodom and Gommorah. Jeremiah names the sin of adultery and false witness, Ezekiel says Sodom and Gommorah were, "arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things"

Not one mention of homosexuality.

There are 3 passages which clearly endorse homosexuality, and same sex marriage.

Ruth Marries Naiome.(Unless Genesis 2: 24 "u-dbq" doesn't mean marriage because it's the same word) Daniel is given the gift of physical love with Ashphenaz by god. And Saul describes David and Jonathan as married twice.

Now don't take me wrong, I am no fan of the bible,
. But it is factually not homophobic.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/16/2015 10:56:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 8:38:17 PM, icetiger200 wrote:
At 11/16/2015 5:32:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

I think you need to get a more accurate translation.

Leviticus 18:22American Standard Version (ASV)

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

That is an outright condemnation of homosexuality. As you rightly point out, the translation you have quoted doesn't even make sense.


Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

I have no idea how you get that from the passage. I can only suggest that it is wishful thinking on your part.

Romans 1:25-28American Standard Version (ASV)

25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Yes, you definitely need either a more accurate translation, or a less fertile imagination.


Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Translated the way they are fits in with the rest of scripture though.

You really are struggling to vindicate the way you want things to be aren't you.

It is a futile exercise, since the truth will catch up with you one day. Better to face it now while it can do you some good.


Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

Yes it is because in fact it refers to all forms of fornication including homosexuality.


And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;


That may be your view, but it the eyes of God and his sion it is a very serous sin.

You obviously haven't read the account abut Sodom and Gomorrah.

They were extremely welcoming to strangers and in fact wanted to have intercourse with the two men, who were in fact materialised angels, who came to visit Lot.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for the great sin that Jehovah found in there which included, but was not restricted to, homosexuality.

Homosexuality, otherwise known as a man lying with another man, was condemned in both the Hebrews Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, and was also included in the condemnation of all forms of fornication, which the Bible describes as any form of sexual behaviour other than in the marital union of one man and one woman.

The problem you are up against is that the only form of sexual practice that is authorised in scripture is that in the marital bond entered into between a man and a woman.

Anything else, including homosexuality, is out.

There is not one passage which authorises a marriage between two people of the same sex.




No the ASV is incorrect, so is the KJV, and possibly all modern translations, the Masoretic text is very clear.

"u"ath(and"with)zkr (male) la(not) thshkb (you-shall-lie-down) ;mshkbi (beds-of) ashe (woman) thuobe (ritually unclean) eua (she)" this is not controversial, just ignored by translators, because it doesn't fit their presumptions.

Romans, 'Nature' in Koine Greek (NT Greek if you prefer) is 'Physis' this can mean simply custom, or something like 'physics' and a lot of other things in between, in the passage concerned, the actual word used is 'physiken' (physuken in some mss) the suffix 'ken' gives ownership of the 'nature' to the actors. So the passage condemns those who act against their own nature, so clearly endorses homosexuality.

No Genesis 19 doesn't condemn homosexuality, it is never mentioned in the text. At best you have a case of attempted rape. There's some incest mind you that seems fine with old Yahweh.

Genesis actually doesn't describe any particular sin, just that there was great sin in Sodom and Gommorah. Jeremiah names the sin of adultery and false witness, Ezekiel says Sodom and Gommorah were, "arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things"

Not one mention of homosexuality.

There are 3 passages which clearly endorse homosexuality, and same sex marriage.

Ruth Marries Naiome.(Unless Genesis 2: 24 "u-dbq" doesn't mean marriage because it's the same word) Daniel is given the gift of physical love with Ashphenaz by god. And Saul describes David and Jonathan as married twice.

Now don't take me wrong, I am no fan of the bible,
. But it is factually not homophobic.

You completely and utterly miss the point.

The point is that the only sexual relations, or even sexually based behaviours which are not sinful and those between a man and woman inside the bond of marriage.

Marriage in theBible is only authorised between a man and a woman, so from that aspect alone homosexuality, just like heterosexuality outside the bond of marriage is a sin.

YTou can wrioggle round it all you like, and waste your time arguing about words, but that remans a fact.

I repeat.

Marriage, in the Bible is only for one man one woman. Any who have gone outside that arrangement have sinned, no matter who they may have been.

All forms of sexual based activity outside of the one man one woman bond is sin.

Therefore homosexuality is sin, end of.

Heterosexuality outside that marital bond is equally sinful. End of.

That is the bible's position.

You may not be a fan of the BIble, but God is, and it is his son who will judge us by his standards as expressed in his word.

There is no room for argument. If you want to pass the "exam" you have to accept the rules as set out by the examiner.

It is as simple as that. No grey areas.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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11/16/2015 10:58:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;
I would like to start by pointing you to your old post, which you never responded to:
http://www.debate.org...

All of your arguments have been refuted or wait for further input.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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11/16/2015 11:02:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

Nope not a sin.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

Yes a sin.

You have to define what you mean by homosexuality...
distraff
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11/17/2015 1:25:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

Sources on how the verse in Corinthians was interpreted:
http://biblehub.com...
http://biblehub.com...
RuvDraba
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11/17/2015 1:44:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Orthodox Judaism has a long anti-homosexual tradition, IceT. Later Judaic thought (e.g. Reconstructionist and Reform Judaism) have altered their opinions, but there's no doubt that traditional Judaic views have interpreted Leviticus as abhorring homosexuality between males. There's a more interpretative but still binding proscription against sex between women too, and both acts are considered so bad that an Orthodox Jew should choose to die rather than transgress.

So whatever Christians might do to interpret the writings they've co-opted, the descendants of the people who wrote its earliest books remain in no doubt as to what it originally meant.

To which I respond: so what?
icetiger200
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11/17/2015 1:59:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 10:56:36 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:38:17 PM, icetiger200 wrote:
At 11/16/2015 5:32:30 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

I think you need to get a more accurate translation.

Leviticus 18:22American Standard Version (ASV)

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

That is an outright condemnation of homosexuality. As you rightly point out, the translation you have quoted doesn't even make sense.


Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

I have no idea how you get that from the passage. I can only suggest that it is wishful thinking on your part.

Romans 1:25-28American Standard Version (ASV)

25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Yes, you definitely need either a more accurate translation, or a less fertile imagination.


Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Translated the way they are fits in with the rest of scripture though.

You really are struggling to vindicate the way you want things to be aren't you.

It is a futile exercise, since the truth will catch up with you one day. Better to face it now while it can do you some good.


Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

Yes it is because in fact it refers to all forms of fornication including homosexuality.


And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;


That may be your view, but it the eyes of God and his sion it is a very serous sin.

You obviously haven't read the account abut Sodom and Gomorrah.

They were extremely welcoming to strangers and in fact wanted to have intercourse with the two men, who were in fact materialised angels, who came to visit Lot.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for the great sin that Jehovah found in there which included, but was not restricted to, homosexuality.

Homosexuality, otherwise known as a man lying with another man, was condemned in both the Hebrews Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, and was also included in the condemnation of all forms of fornication, which the Bible describes as any form of sexual behaviour other than in the marital union of one man and one woman.

The problem you are up against is that the only form of sexual practice that is authorised in scripture is that in the marital bond entered into between a man and a woman.

Anything else, including homosexuality, is out.

There is not one passage which authorises a marriage between two people of the same sex.




No the ASV is incorrect, so is the KJV, and possibly all modern translations, the Masoretic text is very clear.

"u"ath(and"with)zkr (male) la(not) thshkb (you-shall-lie-down) ;mshkbi (beds-of) ashe (woman) thuobe (ritually unclean) eua (she)" this is not controversial, just ignored by translators, because it doesn't fit their presumptions.

Romans, 'Nature' in Koine Greek (NT Greek if you prefer) is 'Physis' this can mean simply custom, or something like 'physics' and a lot of other things in between, in the passage concerned, the actual word used is 'physiken' (physuken in some mss) the suffix 'ken' gives ownership of the 'nature' to the actors. So the passage condemns those who act against their own nature, so clearly endorses homosexuality.

No Genesis 19 doesn't condemn homosexuality, it is never mentioned in the text. At best you have a case of attempted rape. There's some incest mind you that seems fine with old Yahweh.

Genesis actually doesn't describe any particular sin, just that there was great sin in Sodom and Gommorah. Jeremiah names the sin of adultery and false witness, Ezekiel says Sodom and Gommorah were, "arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things"

Not one mention of homosexuality.

There are 3 passages which clearly endorse homosexuality, and same sex marriage.

Ruth Marries Naiome.(Unless Genesis 2: 24 "u-dbq" doesn't mean marriage because it's the same word) Daniel is given the gift of physical love with Ashphenaz by god. And Saul describes David and Jonathan as married twice.

Now don't take me wrong, I am no fan of the bible,
. But it is factually not homophobic.

You completely and utterly miss the point.

The point is that the only sexual relations, or even sexually based behaviours which are not sinful and those between a man and woman inside the bond of marriage.

Marriage in theBible is only authorised between a man and a woman, so from that aspect alone homosexuality, just like heterosexuality outside the bond of marriage is a sin.

YTou can wrioggle round it all you like, and waste your time arguing about words, but that remans a fact.

I repeat.

Marriage, in the Bible is only for one man one woman. Any who have gone outside that arrangement have sinned, no matter who they may have been.

All forms of sexual based activity outside of the one man one woman bond is sin.

Therefore homosexuality is sin, end of.

Heterosexuality outside that marital bond is equally sinful. End of.

That is the bible's position.

You may not be a fan of the BIble, but God is, and it is his son who will judge us by his standards as expressed in his word.

There is no room for argument. If you want to pass the "exam" you have to accept the rules as set out by the examiner.

It is as simple as that. No grey areas.

And yet you have no biblical text which supports that claim.

No: marriage in the bible is predominantly one man and as many women as he can own. Other patterns are evident too, a rapist and his victim springs to mind, but also two men can marry and two women can marry, and yes a single man and a woman can also marry. All these patterns are evidenced in the bible.

You have no case other than your own mores and values, derived from poor translation, imposed on the text.

The Bible is one big grey area.
Iredia
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11/17/2015 2:02:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 2:24:20 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

Only bigots think homosexuality is wrong or abnormal!

This is asinine.

Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and (from Google)

I think being gay is wrong and abnormal but I'm not obstinate about my opinions. In fat they've changed in some respects. Don't hate gays and can tolerate them. What is bigoted is consistently thinking ALL people who hold a different view are bigots based on the actions of a few.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Iredia
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11/17/2015 2:07:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 1:47:46 AM, Composer wrote:
The bible proves jebus was GAY!

It only slept with men, up to 12 at a time!

Slept with not had sex with.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
icetiger200
Posts: 33
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11/17/2015 2:23:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 10:58:43 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;
I would like to start by pointing you to your old post, which you never responded to:
http://www.debate.org...

All of your arguments have been refuted or wait for further input.

I've replied to your post in my other forum
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/17/2015 5:31:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 2:07:10 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:47:46 AM, Composer wrote:
The bible proves jebus was GAY!

It only slept with men, up to 12 at a time!

Slept with not had sex with.
Of course you were there in Story book land!

LMAO@U!
Iredia
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11/18/2015 3:32:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 5:31:59 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/17/2015 2:07:10 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:47:46 AM, Composer wrote:
The bible proves jebus was GAY!

It only slept with men, up to 12 at a time!

Slept with not had sex with.
Of course you were there in Story book land!

LMAO@U!

Every persons life i story being told. Shakespeare said the world's a stage and we are actors. So no problem, make sure you make a name as Jesus did, cuz fictional or not people haven't stopped talking or thinking bout him for 2 millenia now. Even in 'atheistic' Europe. You OTOH like Christopher Hitchens and Dawkins will fade into the background in a couple of decades.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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11/18/2015 3:47:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 6:18:19 PM, Maccabee wrote:
At 11/16/2015 2:24:20 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

Only bigots think homosexuality is wrong or abnormal!
Only bigots think that polygamy, bestiality, and pedophilia is wrong or abnormal. See the logic here?

Yes, in total NONE.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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11/18/2015 3:51:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:02:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

Nope not a sin.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

Yes a sin.

You have to define what you mean by homosexuality...
Homosexuality in most cases is synonymous with love, especially in reference to marriage. You people need to lift your minds above your belt buckles.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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11/18/2015 3:55:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Describe, with references, Adam and Eve's wedding.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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11/18/2015 4:00:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 3:51:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:02:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

Nope not a sin.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

Yes a sin.

You have to define what you mean by homosexuality...
Homosexuality in most cases is synonymous with love, especially in reference to marriage. You people need to lift your minds above your belt buckles.

Question not addressed to you.

If the belt buckles stayed fastened we wouldn't be having this conversation.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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11/18/2015 4:03:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 4:00:40 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/18/2015 3:51:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:02:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

Nope not a sin.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

Yes a sin.

You have to define what you mean by homosexuality...
Homosexuality in most cases is synonymous with love, especially in reference to marriage. You people need to lift your minds above your belt buckles.

Question not addressed to you.

If the belt buckles stayed fastened we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Can't handle the truth, as usual.
Post #27
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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11/18/2015 4:05:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 4:03:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:00:40 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/18/2015 3:51:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:02:43 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:44:40 AM, icetiger200 wrote:
The bible doesn't state anything that says that homosexuality is a sin here are some texts that christians love to use against homosexuality.

Lev 18: 22 says " and you(male you) shall not lie with a male in the beds of a woman , she is ritually unclean." So why is the woman unclean? And at best merely prohibits lying together in women's beds, 20: 13 essentially says the same thing, "not in women's beds".

Romans 1 25-28 gives possession of the 'physis' to the actors, so endorses homosexulaity, rather than condemns it.

Cor/Tim rests on the mistranslation of the word Arsenkoitai, wich is never refered to in a way which indicates homosexual by any ancient writer.

Jude just references Genesis 19, which we might interpret as rape, but as has been pointed out by others on this thread, is actually even more ambiguous than that.

And some notions about 2 Peter seem erroneous. Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed by god (according to the text) for being unwelcoming to strangers. Nothing to do with homosexuality at all.A279;

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

Nope not a sin.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

Yes a sin.

You have to define what you mean by homosexuality...
Homosexuality in most cases is synonymous with love, especially in reference to marriage. You people need to lift your minds above your belt buckles.

Question not addressed to you.

If the belt buckles stayed fastened we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Can't handle the truth, as usual.
Post #27

You're not making sense, as usual.