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Bad Religion Practices

JTA
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11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.
Joe - Some Guy Finishing A Bachelor's
JTA
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11/16/2015 8:05:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Edit: That's supposed to bad titled "Bad Religious Practices." Darn the typo.
Joe - Some Guy Finishing A Bachelor's
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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11/16/2015 8:24:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it.

How humble of you.

It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to.

Or it is a search for the ultimate truth. If a theist wanted an identity they could go join a club or take up a hobby.

However, the people that abuse it,

Define what is an abuse of religion.

the people that judge,

As before define what you mean by judge (without judging yourself of course)

and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop.

lol. I'm going to believe that what I practice is the truth, but not feel that the truth is better than the falsehood that other guy believes. If Jesus was God incarnate you HAVE to believe that your faith is better than the other guys, otherwise you don't believe Jesus was God incarnate. If Muhammad was the the great prophet and that the Koran is directly from heaven then you have to act accordingly and you have to believe that every other religion is ultimately inferior. To do less would be a logical discontinuity on your part.

Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods.

Sure, and does that excuse the followers from attempting to make the world conform to the will of their deity, or does it not impose a greater onus on them to do so?

What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves.

You have to be more specific because different religions will give a different answer.

You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred.

Judge the person? Nope. Judge the morality of the action? Yup. Or do you believe that an omnipotent being created people with intellect and a conscience to just ignore everything that everyone else does and say okie-dokie?

You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes.

So we should just live in anarchy? Yay!

If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish.

You are obviously angry at a particular action of a particular believer. You should talk about specifics instead of generalizing.

That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat.

Yes every lifestyle is equal, because to say that some are better than others makes you a big meanie jerk.

You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

So I should just say that religions that practice human sacrifice are just as valid as those that promote equal human rights? This is a great sign of disrespect?

There is a difference between disrespecting the person and disrespecting their beliefs. Maybe you cannot see the difference.
JTA
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11/16/2015 8:32:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I genuinely appreciate the feedback Geogeer. I enjoy both sides to this because I learn from it. And yeah, I have been scrutinized by religious people before, on multiple occasions. This honestly isn't a recent thing that just nagged me. I truthfully was just curious to better my view on it. Thanks for your time :)
Joe - Some Guy Finishing A Bachelor's
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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11/16/2015 9:23:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Why do ANY theists commit suicide when their gods specifically forbid it?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/16/2015 10:08:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 9:23:16 PM, desmac wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Why do ANY theists commit suicide when their gods specifically forbid it?

The few theists that commit suicide are too eager to enter heaven after accepting the promise. Some do it because they live in atheists communities and develop a sense of vulnerability.
But atheists commit suicide because of depression, drugs, lost of purpose, meaning and a feeling of worthlessness. Believing they are monkeys all their lives just adds to their atheistic worldview. There is no heaven or paradise awaiting atheists which makes their suicide even more senseless.
You read confession by two very God possessed members BoG and MCB. Both were suicidal and were looking forward to new bodies and other transformations. They never attributed their morbid desires to primate instincts. But atheists are primarily driven to despair because they bear the indelible stamp of their lowly ancestors/origins.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Still sticking by your original statement?
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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11/16/2015 11:34:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

I clicked the link at the top of the page to see the article in The American Journal of Psychiatry and it said, Page Not Found.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Still sticking by your original statement?

Learn to read.....
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/16/2015 11:41:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:34:16 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

I clicked the link at the top of the page to see the article in The American Journal of Psychiatry and it said, Page Not Found.

It was moved to:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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11/16/2015 11:43:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

It's a fake article, it does not exist in The American Journal of Psychiatry. Typical dumb religious people desperate for validation tactic.
RuvDraba
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11/16/2015 11:48:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose.
It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to.

Religion certainly does those things, JTA, but so too do community participation and mutual support. If you want purpose, a sense of identity and a place to turn to, there's nothing like caring for and turning to your fellow man, no matter what you believe about the universe.

However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop.
This is what religious dogmatism does, which community participation does not: it shrinks the world to a single, sacred story. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the point of sanctifying religious dogma is to give the faithful and their elites authority and privilege over their fellow man.

Exploring religion can be philosophical, but the sanctification of dogma is nothing but political. If so, JT, I think you may be wasting your words here: the faithful who view their faith descriptively aren't doing what you're concerned about, while those who run a prescriptive dogma may well be in it for the power to begin with.

As I see it, you can't appeal to the better nature of someone who has already traded honesty, kindness and humility for power. You have to show instead that their claims to authority are a sham.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Still sticking by your original statement?

Learn to read.....

I gave you two chances to re-address your position, and I find it really interesting that you tell me to learn to read because it is obvious you have not.

Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

Secondly, nor is it talking about the "population in general", but a specific subset of "depressed inpatients", which is a highly specific subset to which you have no clue whatsoever how it applies to the population in general, the percentage of depressed inpatients could potentially be lower compared the general population as it seems indicative that the study is directly correlating those patients with one another and not the general population.

Finally, you fall foul of correlation = Causation, as the study itself plainly spells out:

"This study has some limitations. For example, it did not assess religious upbringing, religious practice, or the level of personal devotion. Therefore, it is possible that depressed patients who stated that they were atheists or had no religion had abandoned religion as a consequence of depression or hopelessness."

So no, your statement indicating that Atheists have a higher rate of suicide, is not supported by this study for each of those three reasons; and despite me giving you two chances to actually go back and read (if someone had said that, I would have gone back and triple checked), you still blundered on.

Of course, you ignore this, as you have probably read only what you wanted to read, biased by whatever your agenda is blowing it's conclusion into a wide ranging

Of course, I'm sure you will NOW go on and try and mine whatever resources you can, it's plainly clear that you demonstrate an abstract lack of actual objective or critical thinking because of the above.

And, while I won"t say that the issue of religiosity vs suicide rate is a non issue or even cut-and dry, I will leave you this for your perusal, it"s a graph showing religiosity (y axis), plotted vs rates of suicide (x axis) for all 50 states and Washington D.C

http://www.debate.org...

Thank you for playing.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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11/16/2015 11:55:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:41:30 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:34:16 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

I clicked the link at the top of the page to see the article in The American Journal of Psychiatry and it said, Page Not Found.

It was moved to:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

But the article in The American Journal of Psychiatry is named Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt so they gave the article a fake name to promote the dumb religious people point of view and there are a number of other discrepancies.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/16/2015 11:56:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Still sticking by your original statement?

Learn to read.....

I gave you two chances to re-address your position, and I find it really interesting that you tell me to learn to read because it is obvious you have not.

Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

Secondly, nor is it talking about the "population in general", but a specific subset of "depressed inpatients", which is a highly specific subset to which you have no clue whatsoever how it applies to the population in general, the percentage of depressed inpatients could potentially be lower compared the general population as it seems indicative that the study is directly correlating those patients with one another and not the general population.

Finally, you fall foul of correlation = Causation, as the study itself plainly spells out:

"This study has some limitations. For example, it did not assess religious upbringing, religious practice, or the level of personal devotion. Therefore, it is possible that depressed patients who stated that they were atheists or had no religion had abandoned religion as a consequence of depression or hopelessness."

So no, your statement indicating that Atheists have a higher rate of suicide, is not supported by this study for each of those three reasons; and despite me giving you two chances to actually go back and read (if someone had said that, I would have gone back and triple checked), you still blundered on.

Of course, you ignore this, as you have probably read only what you wanted to read, biased by whatever your agenda is blowing it's conclusion into a wide ranging

Of course, I'm sure you will NOW go on and try and mine whatever resources you can, it's plainly clear that you demonstrate an abstract lack of actual objective or critical thinking because of the above.


And, while I won"t say that the issue of religiosity vs suicide rate is a non issue or even cut-and dry, I will leave you this for your perusal, it"s a graph showing religiosity (y axis), plotted vs rates of suicide (x axis) for all 50 states and Washington D.C

http://www.debate.org...


Thank you for playing.

Oops:

Of course, you ignore this, as you have probably read only what you wanted to read, biased by whatever your agenda is blowing it's conclusion into a wide ranging and unsupported hyperbolae.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/17/2015 12:03:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:43:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

It's a fake article, it does not exist in The American Journal of Psychiatry. Typical dumb religious people desperate for validation tactic.

It's a real article.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

It just doesn't say ANYTHING that Harkrish seems to think it does.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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11/17/2015 12:13:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 12:03:39 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:43:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

It's a fake article, it does not exist in The American Journal of Psychiatry. Typical dumb religious people desperate for validation tactic.

It's a real article.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

It just doesn't say ANYTHING that Harkrish seems to think it does.

But the article in The American Journal of Psychiatry is named Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt so they gave the article a fake name to promote the dumb religious people point of view and there are a number of other discrepancies.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/17/2015 12:35:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Still sticking by your original statement?

Learn to read.....

I gave you two chances to re-address your position, and I find it really interesting that you tell me to learn to read because it is obvious you have not.

Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

You don't read too good.
The study compares religious with religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics.

Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."

Secondly, nor is it talking about the "population in general", but a specific subset of "depressed inpatients", which is a highly specific subset to which you have no clue whatsoever how it applies to the population in general, the percentage of depressed inpatients could potentially be lower compared the general population as it seems indicative that the study is directly correlating those patients with one another and not the general population.

Finally, you fall foul of correlation = Causation, as the study itself plainly spells out:

"This study has some limitations. For example, it did not assess religious upbringing, religious practice, or the level of personal devotion. Therefore, it is possible that depressed patients who stated that they were atheists or had no religion had abandoned religion as a consequence of depression or hopelessness."

So no, your statement indicating that Atheists have a higher rate of suicide, is not supported by this study for each of those three reasons; and despite me giving you two chances to actually go back and read (if someone had said that, I would have gone back and triple checked), you still blundered on.

Of course, you ignore this, as you have probably read only what you wanted to read, biased by whatever your agenda is blowing it's conclusion into a wide ranging

Of course, I'm sure you will NOW go on and try and mine whatever resources you can, it's plainly clear that you demonstrate an abstract lack of actual objective or critical thinking because of the above.


And, while I won"t say that the issue of religiosity vs suicide rate is a non issue or even cut-and dry, I will leave you this for your perusal, it"s a graph showing religiosity (y axis), plotted vs rates of suicide (x axis) for all 50 states and Washington D.C

http://www.debate.org...


Thank you for playing.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/17/2015 12:48:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 12:35:59 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Still sticking by your original statement?

Learn to read.....

I gave you two chances to re-address your position, and I find it really interesting that you tell me to learn to read because it is obvious you have not.

Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

You don't read too good.
The study compares religious with religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics.

And you insult me again; ignoring the fact you have ignored TWO OTHER KEY reasons your assertion is completely unsupported by this study, you still don't seem to understand the study you are citing.

No it doesn't compare them. It compares Religiously unaffiliated, and religiously affiliated. The former include atheists, agnostics, and a 68% of others with no specific religion who still believe in God.

Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."

This quote is from Adherents, not from the study. The author seems to have come to the same, biased, misleading and incorrect conclusion about what the study is saying that you are parroting.

Give it up, your just digging a hole.

Admit that you simply saw what you wanted to see, gave the study no critical thinking and decided to leap to a conclusion you thought is supported but isn't.

While you're at it, please go back and address the other to gaping wholes in your assertion, which you have ignored completely.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/17/2015 12:48:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 11:55:19 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:41:30 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:34:16 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

I clicked the link at the top of the page to see the article in The American Journal of Psychiatry and it said, Page Not Found.

It was moved to:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

But the article in The American Journal of Psychiatry is named Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt so they gave the article a fake name to promote the dumb religious people point of view and there are a number of other discrepancies.

The title: Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempts.
Study found Correlation: Religious ...lower suicide rates
Converse: religious unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics ....higher suicide rates.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/17/2015 12:49:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 12:13:58 AM, Accipiter wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:03:39 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:43:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:
Having a religion-based conversation with a friend online right now. I figured I'd just post this and get feedback because I'm curious. Before I begin, let me just clarify a few things. I know that I'm no stunning example of generosity or altruism. I can live with that. I know I'm flawed. I try to not be that way, but hey, I'm kind of a jerk sometimes. I just try to get better at being a jerk less often every day. I can at least say I'm headed in the right direction.

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

It's a fake article, it does not exist in The American Journal of Psychiatry. Typical dumb religious people desperate for validation tactic.

It's a real article.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

It just doesn't say ANYTHING that Harkrish seems to think it does.


But the article in The American Journal of Psychiatry is named Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt so they gave the article a fake name to promote the dumb religious people point of view and there are a number of other discrepancies.

Of course it did, it's a biased, and misleading article citing articles that do not support the conclusion they are trying to draw.

Harkrish is simply parroting the same line, and then rather than apologizing and admitting he hasn't read it, and doesn't understand it, he is remaining adamant he is right, even though it is plainly clear he is not.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/17/2015 12:55:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 12:48:03 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:35:59 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Still sticking by your original statement?

Learn to read.....

I gave you two chances to re-address your position, and I find it really interesting that you tell me to learn to read because it is obvious you have not.

Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

You don't read too good.
The study compares religious with religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics.

And you insult me again; ignoring the fact you have ignored TWO OTHER KEY reasons your assertion is completely unsupported by this study, you still don't seem to understand the study you are citing.

No it doesn't compare them. It compares Religiously unaffiliated, and religiously affiliated. The former include atheists, agnostics, and a 68% of others with no specific religion who still believe in God.

Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."

This quote is from Adherents, not from the study. The author seems to have come to the same, biased, misleading and incorrect conclusion about what the study is saying that you are parroting.

Adherent article is based on the study and draws its conclusion from that study and others.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide."

Give it up, your just digging a hole.

Shoddy reading, just admit it.

Admit that you simply saw what you wanted to see, gave the study no critical thinking and decided to leap to a conclusion you thought is supported but isn't.

While you're at it, please go back and address the other to gaping wholes in your assertion, which you have ignored completely.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/17/2015 12:58:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 12:55:27 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:48:03 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:35:59 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:

Without further ado:

As an atheist, I can only believe I understand the point of it. It gives people a purpose. It gives them an identity. It can be very helpful to those in need of a place to turn to. However, the people that abuse it, the people that judge, and the people that believe their religion is better than the religion of someone else, just stop. Most religions say to leave their judging to their God or gods. What gives you the right to speak out for your almighty being? Pretty sure if he or they is/are so omnipotent, they would gladly handle it themselves. You are not a vessel to cast judgment and you are not a vessel to spread hatred. You are not an angel or spiritual entity sent down to try and change people for your own purposes. If you want to help someone through your religion, great. Help them. If you're trying to change them, when they're perfectly fine otherwise, for any reason, for your own sense of purpose, you are demented and selfish. That's not a benevolent use of your religion. That's you being an egotistical jerk thinking your way of life is better than the life of someone else. You sound like a brat. You need to take a step back from yourself and analyze what kind of person you are, and what kind of person you are becoming. Some people just sicken me to my core with how they disrespect other people, let alone their religion by doing things so ignorant.

Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.

Still sticking by your original statement?

Learn to read.....

I gave you two chances to re-address your position, and I find it really interesting that you tell me to learn to read because it is obvious you have not.

Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

You don't read too good.
The study compares religious with religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics.

And you insult me again; ignoring the fact you have ignored TWO OTHER KEY reasons your assertion is completely unsupported by this study, you still don't seem to understand the study you are citing.

No it doesn't compare them. It compares Religiously unaffiliated, and religiously affiliated. The former include atheists, agnostics, and a 68% of others with no specific religion who still believe in God.

Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."

This quote is from Adherents, not from the study. The author seems to have come to the same, biased, misleading and incorrect conclusion about what the study is saying that you are parroting.

Adherent article is based on the study and draws its conclusion from that study and others.

No it doesn't. It's presented a biased conclusion as you have done; it is claiming things the study doesn't say.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide."


Give it up, your just digging a hole.

Shoddy reading, just admit it.

Atheists are all Religiously unaffiliated. Not all Religiously unaffiliated are Atheist.

While you're at it, please go back and address the other to gaping wholes in your assertion, which you have ignored completely.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/17/2015 1:53:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 12:58:39 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:55:27 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:48:03 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:35:59 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:


Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.


Learn to read.....


Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

You don't read too good.
The study compares religious with religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics.

And you insult me again; ignoring the fact you have ignored TWO OTHER KEY reasons your assertion is completely unsupported by this study, you still don't seem to understand the study you are citing.

No it doesn't compare them. It compares Religiously unaffiliated, and religiously affiliated. The former include atheists, agnostics, and a 68% of others with no specific religion who still believe in God.

Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."

This quote is from Adherents, not from the study. The author seems to have come to the same, biased, misleading and incorrect conclusion about what the study is saying that you are parroting.

Adherent article is based on the study and draws its conclusion from that study and others.


RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide."


Give it up, your just digging a hole.

Shoddy reading, just admit it.

Atheists are all Religiously unaffiliated. Not all Religiously unaffiliated are Atheist.


The article includes all three. Religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics. Move on!!

While you're at it, please go back and address the other to gaping wholes in your assertion, which you have ignored completely.

Some links I used that point to probable cause for atheists to despair, their low self esteem and urge to self terminate. The phenomena is global and the trend is very alarming.

Psychology researcher says spiritual meaning of Christmas brings more happiness than materialism
http://www3.scienceblog.com...

Religious Commitment in Young Adult Males in Utah
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org...

Religious beliefs, atheism, and suicide
http://justinvacula.com...

Protective Functions of Religious Traditions for Suicide Risk
http://demoiselle2femme.org...

Atheist doctors 'more likely to hasten death',mom
http://www.theguardian.com...

Assisted Suicide Is Most Common In Atheists.
http://www.medicaldaily.com...

Atheist Personality Disorder: Addressing A Distorted MindsetPaperback " June 29, 2009
by Fr. John J. Pasquini (Author)
Fr. Pasquini's work puts to death the intellectual hopes for atheism and brings to light the mental disorder behind the atheist mindset. . . . With the advances in molecular biology, 'cosmic' mathematics, and the psychology of atheism, atheism has lost its intellectual validity-being more the product of a psychological disorder whose origins are found in childhood development.
http://www.amazon.com...
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/17/2015 2:08:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 1:53:28 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:58:39 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:55:27 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:48:03 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:35:59 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:


Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.


Learn to read.....


Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

You don't read too good.
The study compares religious with religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics.

And you insult me again; ignoring the fact you have ignored TWO OTHER KEY reasons your assertion is completely unsupported by this study, you still don't seem to understand the study you are citing.

No it doesn't compare them. It compares Religiously unaffiliated, and religiously affiliated. The former include atheists, agnostics, and a 68% of others with no specific religion who still believe in God.

Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."

This quote is from Adherents, not from the study. The author seems to have come to the same, biased, misleading and incorrect conclusion about what the study is saying that you are parroting.

Adherent article is based on the study and draws its conclusion from that study and others.


RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide."


Give it up, your just digging a hole.

Shoddy reading, just admit it.

Atheists are all Religiously unaffiliated. Not all Religiously unaffiliated are Atheist.


The article includes all three. Religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics. Move on!!

No it doesn't. It includes ONE; which happens to comprise atheists, agnostics, and those who believe in God but have no affiliation.

You don't seem to be getting this, do you?

Using this article, you can make claims on already depressed religiously unaffiliated. You can't make any claims about depressed atheists, nor the atheist population as a whole based upon it, because this would be you misrepresenting what the study actually is.

While you're at it, please go back and address the other to gaping wholes in your assertion, which you have ignored completely.

Some links I used that point to probable cause for atheists to despair, their low self esteem and urge to self terminate. The phenomena is global and the trend is very alarming.

And you still ignore my subsequent two points, AND the lack of correlation between suicide rates and religiosity in the US.

Considering you don't understand basic applicability of data, and you have repeatedly ignored the remaining two points I made, and are now changing the subject, it's telling me that you have effectively conceded the original point:

"Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it."

Which remains true no matter how many links you continue to post.

Moreover, I indeed called it in one of my replies:

"Of course, I'm sure you will NOW go on and try and mine whatever resources you can, it's plainly clear that you demonstrate an abstract lack of actual objective or critical thinking because of the above."
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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11/17/2015 2:18:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 2:08:01 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:53:28 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:58:39 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:55:27 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:48:03 AM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:35:59 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:54:47 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:39:22 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:20:27 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 11:18:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:56:33 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 11/16/2015 8:50:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:46:01 PM, JTA wrote:


Why should religious people not feel they are better off than atheists when atheists have higher rates of suicides than those affiliated with religion.

http://www.adherents.com...

Considering that study says none of what you just said, I'm not sure why you are posting it.

Here is what the first few paragraphs covers in the article. The study shows a correlation between higher suicides and religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
Simply put atheists have higher suicide rates compared to religious groups which is very relevant to my post.

According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

ABSTRACT:

OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.


Learn to read.....


Firstly, the study cites "Religiously unaffiliated". Google the study; it doesn't mention "Atheists" in the study. That's kinda important because pew research seems to indicate upwards of 68% of "religiously unaffiliated" in the U.S still believe in God.

You don't read too good.
The study compares religious with religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics.

And you insult me again; ignoring the fact you have ignored TWO OTHER KEY reasons your assertion is completely unsupported by this study, you still don't seem to understand the study you are citing.

No it doesn't compare them. It compares Religiously unaffiliated, and religiously affiliated. The former include atheists, agnostics, and a 68% of others with no specific religion who still believe in God.

Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."

This quote is from Adherents, not from the study. The author seems to have come to the same, biased, misleading and incorrect conclusion about what the study is saying that you are parroting.

Adherent article is based on the study and draws its conclusion from that study and others.


RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide."


Give it up, your just digging a hole.

Shoddy reading, just admit it.

Atheists are all Religiously unaffiliated. Not all Religiously unaffiliated are Atheist.


The article includes all three. Religiously unaffiliated, atheists and agnostics. Move on!!

No it doesn't. It includes ONE; which happens to comprise atheists, agnostics, and those who believe in God but have no affiliation.

That is a twisted interpretation.
Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."


Using this article, you can make claims on already depressed religiously unaffiliated. You can't make any claims about depressed atheists, nor the atheist population as a whole based upon it, because this would be you misrepresenting what the study actually is.

While you're at it, please go back and address the other to gaping wholes in your assertion, which you have ignored completely.

Some links I used that point to probable cause for atheists to despair, their low self esteem and urge to self terminate. The phenomena is global and the trend is very alarming.

And you still ignore my subsequent two points, AND the lack of correlation between suicide rates and religiosity in the US.

You need to get help. Your comprehension is very poor.

You are still stuck comprehending.
Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/17/2015 2:24:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 2:18:54 AM, Harikrish wrote:
No it doesn't. It includes ONE; which happens to comprise atheists, agnostics, and those who believe in God but have no affiliation.

That is a twisted interpretation.

No, this is the specific and accepted definition of religiously unaffiliated; and indeed is implied in the very study itself.

Read:" The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics."

THIS is a twisted interpretation; indeed a misrepresentation of the study.


Using this article, you can make claims on already depressed religiously unaffiliated. You can't make any claims about depressed atheists, nor the atheist population as a whole based upon it, because this would be you misrepresenting what the study actually is.

While you're at it, please go back and address the other to gaping wholes in your assertion, which you have ignored completely.

Some links I used that point to probable cause for atheists to despair, their low self esteem and urge to self terminate. The phenomena is global and the trend is very alarming.

And you still ignore my subsequent two points, AND the lack of correlation between suicide rates and religiosity in the US.

You need to get help. Your comprehension is very poor.

You are still stuck comprehending.

You failing to understand that All zigs are zags, but not all zags are zigs; and data about zags in general cannot be statistically applied to zigs without more data, is an issue with comprehension; but it is yours not mine.

I made two additional points, and showed a plot of religiosity vs suicide; relevant to the two additional points. All of which you have ignored.

Me raising them, and reminding you that I made them, only to have you completely ignore it, and pointing out that you are trying to change the subject is not a lack of comprehension.