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Submarines in the book of mormon????

graceofgod
Posts: 6,859
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11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...
graceofgod
Posts: 6,859
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11/17/2015 1:39:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

well it seems difficult for the time to say the least...
Skepticalone
Posts: 7,081
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11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
bulproof
Posts: 29,474
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11/17/2015 1:55:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I wouldn't be surprised, but since I have my own planet to be god of, I don't give a flying rats F*ck.
No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means.
George Bernard Shaw
graceofgod
Posts: 6,859
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11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol
Skepticalone
Posts: 7,081
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11/17/2015 3:23:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol

I'm not sure if your being facetious. My point is that submarines were around for hundreds of years before the book of Mormon, so if those verses are in reference to submarines, it is not particularly difficult to explain.
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
graceofgod
Posts: 6,859
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11/18/2015 12:31:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:23:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol

I'm not sure if your being facetious. My point is that submarines were around for hundreds of years before the book of Mormon, so if those verses are in reference to submarines, it is not particularly difficult to explain.

I think you are missing the point, do you think someone in the ancient world would have designed them and been able to manufacture them...
Skepticalone
Posts: 7,081
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11/18/2015 1:45:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 12:31:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:23:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol

I'm not sure if your being facetious. My point is that submarines were around for hundreds of years before the book of Mormon, so if those verses are in reference to submarines, it is not particularly difficult to explain.

I think you are missing the point, do you think someone in the ancient world would have designed them and been able to manufacture them...

1830 AD (when the book of Mormon was written) was not the "ancient world".
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
dhardage
Posts: 4,546
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11/18/2015 2:57:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is nothing but a post hoc attempt to explain how a primitive wooden vessel could possibly survive in conditions known to be fatal to such a craft, even if it was stable enough to sail in clear weather.
graceofgod
Posts: 6,859
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11/18/2015 3:39:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 1:45:44 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 12:31:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:23:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol

I'm not sure if your being facetious. My point is that submarines were around for hundreds of years before the book of Mormon, so if those verses are in reference to submarines, it is not particularly difficult to explain.

I think you are missing the point, do you think someone in the ancient world would have designed them and been able to manufacture them...

1830 AD (when the book of Mormon was written) was not the "ancient world".

we all know that but it speaks of an ancient race, that is where the submarines come in...
Skepticalone
Posts: 7,081
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11/18/2015 5:16:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 3:39:59 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/18/2015 1:45:44 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 12:31:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:23:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol

I'm not sure if your being facetious. My point is that submarines were around for hundreds of years before the book of Mormon, so if those verses are in reference to submarines, it is not particularly difficult to explain.

I think you are missing the point, do you think someone in the ancient world would have designed them and been able to manufacture them...

1830 AD (when the book of Mormon was written) was not the "ancient world".

we all know that but it speaks of an ancient race, that is where the submarines come in...

Oh, I see. For some reason, I had imagined you were reasonable.

If I wrote about helicopters existing in the first century what would that show? Most likely, that I was writing in a time period after helicopters existed. A lesser possibility is that helicopters existed before they are currently known to have been invented, but we would expect evidence beyond my assertion to validate that.

The most plausible explanation is the one I gave, but if you want to embrace absurd notions without objective evidence I can't stop you. Additionally, I would not be interested in having a discussion about it with an individual maintaining such an arbitrary standard of proof.

https://wikipedia.org...

If this link doesn't work (I'm on my phone) look up "anachronism".
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
graceofgod
Posts: 6,859
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11/18/2015 7:11:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:16:13 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 3:39:59 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/18/2015 1:45:44 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 12:31:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:23:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol

I'm not sure if your being facetious. My point is that submarines were around for hundreds of years before the book of Mormon, so if those verses are in reference to submarines, it is not particularly difficult to explain.

I think you are missing the point, do you think someone in the ancient world would have designed them and been able to manufacture them...

1830 AD (when the book of Mormon was written) was not the "ancient world".

we all know that but it speaks of an ancient race, that is where the submarines come in...

Oh, I see. For some reason, I had imagined you were reasonable.

If I wrote about helicopters existing in the first century what would that show? Most likely, that I was writing in a time period after helicopters existed. A lesser possibility is that helicopters existed before they are currently known to have been invented, but we would expect evidence beyond my assertion to validate that.

The most plausible explanation is the one I gave, but if you want to embrace absurd notions without objective evidence I can't stop you. Additionally, I would not be interested in having a discussion about it with an individual maintaining such an arbitrary standard of proof.

https://wikipedia.org...

If this link doesn't work (I'm on my phone) look up "anachronism".

what are you talking about, I am asking if it is likely that any race around that the time the book of mormon claims, which would be around 2500 BC , would have been capable of building submarines...
Skepticalone
Posts: 7,081
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11/18/2015 7:23:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 7:11:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:16:13 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 3:39:59 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/18/2015 1:45:44 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 12:31:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:23:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol

I'm not sure if your being facetious. My point is that submarines were around for hundreds of years before the book of Mormon, so if those verses are in reference to submarines, it is not particularly difficult to explain.

I think you are missing the point, do you think someone in the ancient world would have designed them and been able to manufacture them...

1830 AD (when the book of Mormon was written) was not the "ancient world".

we all know that but it speaks of an ancient race, that is where the submarines come in...

Oh, I see. For some reason, I had imagined you were reasonable.

If I wrote about helicopters existing in the first century what would that show? Most likely, that I was writing in a time period after helicopters existed. A lesser possibility is that helicopters existed before they are currently known to have been invented, but we would expect evidence beyond my assertion to validate that.

The most plausible explanation is the one I gave, but if you want to embrace absurd notions without objective evidence I can't stop you. Additionally, I would not be interested in having a discussion about it with an individual maintaining such an arbitrary standard of proof.

https://wikipedia.org...

If this link doesn't work (I'm on my phone) look up "anachronism".

what are you talking about, I am asking if it is likely that any race around that the time the book of mormon claims, which would be around 2500 BC , would have been capable of building submarines...

The obvious answer is no.
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
graceofgod
Posts: 6,859
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11/18/2015 7:25:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 7:23:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 7:11:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:16:13 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 3:39:59 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/18/2015 1:45:44 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/18/2015 12:31:53 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:23:09 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:04:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 11/17/2015 1:44:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 11/17/2015 11:13:52 AM, graceofgod wrote:
And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Ether 2:19-20

For behold, ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you.
" Ether 2:24

And it came to pass that when they were buried in the deep there was no water that could hurt them, their vessels being tight like unto a dish.
" Ether 6:7

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
" Ether 6:10

how was that possible...

Well, it seems the Book of Mormon was written in the early 1800's. Agreed? Submarines were around before then. There was even submarines in war before then.

http://www.history.com...

I love the bit about getting air by having a hole in the top and the bottom ..lol

I'm not sure if your being facetious. My point is that submarines were around for hundreds of years before the book of Mormon, so if those verses are in reference to submarines, it is not particularly difficult to explain.

I think you are missing the point, do you think someone in the ancient world would have designed them and been able to manufacture them...

1830 AD (when the book of Mormon was written) was not the "ancient world".

we all know that but it speaks of an ancient race, that is where the submarines come in...

Oh, I see. For some reason, I had imagined you were reasonable.

If I wrote about helicopters existing in the first century what would that show? Most likely, that I was writing in a time period after helicopters existed. A lesser possibility is that helicopters existed before they are currently known to have been invented, but we would expect evidence beyond my assertion to validate that.

The most plausible explanation is the one I gave, but if you want to embrace absurd notions without objective evidence I can't stop you. Additionally, I would not be interested in having a discussion about it with an individual maintaining such an arbitrary standard of proof.

https://wikipedia.org...

If this link doesn't work (I'm on my phone) look up "anachronism".

what are you talking about, I am asking if it is likely that any race around that the time the book of mormon claims, which would be around 2500 BC , would have been capable of building submarines...

The obvious answer is no.

thank you, on that we agree...