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Athiests, if God existed...

Hayd
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11/19/2015 4:11:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It would be awesome. I wish a supreme creator existed so bad, especially an omniscient one.
distraff
Posts: 1,005
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11/19/2015 4:18:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

Nature would not be cruel operating by natural selection and the consumption of other organisms. Food would be non-living.

Also, nobody would be born with mental disease like depression, down syndrome, psychopathy, or severe autism. Everyone would be given proper brains and the opportunity to make something out of themselves.

Currently only .000001% of the universe is habitable and most of it is far out of reach from intelligent life. I would make it more habitable.

I would make species in a way such that 99% of them would go extinct. That is a huge waste. I would also not make vestigial organs like tiny leg bones in snakes, eyes in cave creatures that never see light, or the tailbone in humans.

I would also not make 14 billion years or 7 days to create life. I would do it instantly. Why waste time? Its like a human taking a month to make cake. It makes no sense.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,137
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11/19/2015 4:44:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

Who's to say it would not be the same, or completely different - wouldn't the characteristics of creation be at the whim of the creator?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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11/19/2015 6:30:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

I think such a conjecture would have to be coherent to be meaningful, DrP.

The question seems to assume that if 'God' existed, the universe might somehow contain objective evidence. But objective evidence of what?

One might be able to define objective tests that the universe were created by an active, intelligent metaphysical being engaged to the interests of humanity (and I think the universe has already failed those tests.) But does that make it the being normally worshiped as 'God'?

'God' claims typically also include divinity, supremacy, uniqueness and moral authority: how would any of those be established?

If the idea isn't objectively testable, then I don't believe the conjecture is objectively meaningful, DrP. If it's not objectively meaningful, then how is the question anything but a circular appeal to the querent's own biased assumptions?

I also think that anyone claiming that the term is defined objectively needs to set such tests themselves to demonstrate that their idea is coherent. They cannot shift that burden to anyone else.

it seems to me that asking this question at all is abandoning a fundamental intellectual responsibility. If you want to claim that God as an objectively coherent concept, you need to define its characteristics, and stipulate the objective tests that would demonstrate or falsify them.
Illegalcombatant
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11/19/2015 7:13:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

Depends on the God.............

A God who cares about truth concerning it's self, when humans start preaching about how God sent that earth quake because of gay marriage or what ever that God might actually talk for it's self and thus deny or confirm what ever. Also it might call preacher X a sack of lying sh*t.

But of course that God would actually have to talk for it's self and give a sh*t what humans go around saying about it.........
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/19/2015 10:32:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

If God existed He probably wouldn't need a reason to separate our consciousness from His to create us. If we look at modern theology it's all about trying to get closer to God, why would He separate us in the first place?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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11/19/2015 11:15:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?
Do you have any particular god in mind?
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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11/19/2015 11:34:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It wouldn't change much. It wouldn't really make a difference to my life.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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11/19/2015 2:49:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

Clearly define what you believe is God and I can give you an answer. Until then the question is meaningless.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,328
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11/19/2015 3:11:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:11:56 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It would be awesome. I wish a supreme creator existed so bad, especially an omniscient one.

What would make you think a supreme Creator doesn't exist?

Could it be an ideology? remember if you claim or attemtp to say God does not exist because of lack of evidence you need to precisely identify what you mean by evidence. Because if you say "physical material evidence" then your plea becomes a circular argument along with a straw man.
So in essence all you really can do is operate from a material mindset, saying no God exists based on a materialist perspective. But the good news for you is, is that mindset is all it really is, it's purely an ideology it's not based on reality because an atheist mindset only comprehends or accepts a material existence, and that is not reality especially through the understanding of theism.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/19/2015 3:19:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 10:32:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

If God existed He probably wouldn't need a reason to separate our consciousness from His to create us. If we look at modern theology it's all about trying to get closer to God, why would He separate us in the first place?
Because duality is a necessity of existence, therefore something had to exist that thought it was greater or better than God, hence Satan. We then were separated from God in order to gain a level of spiritual wisdom to teach us that you cannot be better than God. Being equal in wisdom is acceptable to God of course. But we were separated to instill in our souls that thinking you're better than God results in what the current state of humanity and the world is. It's a necessary process that by default keeps us from the vanity of Satan when we finally reach the eternal "soul only" state of existence. We will still no evil and good, but the wisdom of all of us will change to the point where evil merely becomes a non issue. It won't affect our decisions or state of "mind".
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/19/2015 3:38:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

Yea, it has been hit on by others, but the answer is anything from terrible, the exact same, much nicer. A god who cared about the universe might do things we like. It might also do things maliciously.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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11/19/2015 3:45:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 3:11:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:11:56 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It would be awesome. I wish a supreme creator existed so bad, especially an omniscient one.

What would make you think a supreme Creator doesn't exist?

Could it be an ideology? remember if you claim or attemtp to say God does not exist because of lack of evidence you need to precisely identify what you mean by evidence. Because if you say "physical material evidence" then your plea becomes a circular argument along with a straw man.
So in essence all you really can do is operate from a material mindset, saying no God exists based on a materialist perspective. But the good news for you is, is that mindset is all it really is, it's purely an ideology it's not based on reality because an atheist mindset only comprehends or accepts a material existence, and that is not reality especially through the understanding of theism.

That's because there is no evidence to demonstrate anything exists outside of our material existence. And yes, by evidence I mean factual, testable, verifiable information that unambiguously supports your assertions. Since you cannot in any meaningful way demonstrate your assertion is true, it is rejected pending actual evidence and not arguments from authority or incredulity.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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11/19/2015 3:46:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

A vague question can yield naught but vague responses.

However, if such a God existed, participated, and cared about His creation, atrocities born of theological disagreements should not exist. In essence, fanatical, murderous groups like ISIS would not exist.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,328
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11/19/2015 4:03:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 3:45:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:11:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:11:56 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It would be awesome. I wish a supreme creator existed so bad, especially an omniscient one.

What would make you think a supreme Creator doesn't exist?

Could it be an ideology? remember if you claim or attemtp to say God does not exist because of lack of evidence you need to precisely identify what you mean by evidence. Because if you say "physical material evidence" then your plea becomes a circular argument along with a straw man.
So in essence all you really can do is operate from a material mindset, saying no God exists based on a materialist perspective. But the good news for you is, is that mindset is all it really is, it's purely an ideology it's not based on reality because an atheist mindset only comprehends or accepts a material existence, and that is not reality especially through the understanding of theism.

That's because there is no evidence to demonstrate anything exists outside of our material existence. And yes, by evidence I mean factual, testable, verifiable information that unambiguously supports your assertions. Since you cannot in any meaningful way demonstrate your assertion is true, it is rejected pending actual evidence and not arguments from authority or incredulity.

That's baloney and a materialists claim. There is plenty to verify, there is more information regarding spiritual phenomena and insight than anything else. What you are only capable of is repeating the same atheistic dogma over and over.
I've clearly related to you that spirituality is indeed factual, testable and verifiable, but not in a science lab, it's by individual observation.
I show you how this works in almost all of our discussions but you insist on following your ideology and remain ignorant of how spiritual things operate.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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11/19/2015 4:07:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:03:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:45:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:11:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:11:56 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It would be awesome. I wish a supreme creator existed so bad, especially an omniscient one.

What would make you think a supreme Creator doesn't exist?

Could it be an ideology? remember if you claim or attemtp to say God does not exist because of lack of evidence you need to precisely identify what you mean by evidence. Because if you say "physical material evidence" then your plea becomes a circular argument along with a straw man.
So in essence all you really can do is operate from a material mindset, saying no God exists based on a materialist perspective. But the good news for you is, is that mindset is all it really is, it's purely an ideology it's not based on reality because an atheist mindset only comprehends or accepts a material existence, and that is not reality especially through the understanding of theism.

That's because there is no evidence to demonstrate anything exists outside of our material existence. And yes, by evidence I mean factual, testable, verifiable information that unambiguously supports your assertions. Since you cannot in any meaningful way demonstrate your assertion is true, it is rejected pending actual evidence and not arguments from authority or incredulity.

That's baloney and a materialists claim. There is plenty to verify, there is more information regarding spiritual phenomena and insight than anything else. What you are only capable of is repeating the same atheistic dogma over and over.
I've clearly related to you that spirituality is indeed factual, testable and verifiable, but not in a science lab, it's by individual observation.
I show you how this works in almost all of our discussions but you insist on following your ideology and remain ignorant of how spiritual things operate.

You mean like David Berkowitz, now I get it.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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11/19/2015 4:07:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:03:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:45:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:11:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:11:56 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It would be awesome. I wish a supreme creator existed so bad, especially an omniscient one.

What would make you think a supreme Creator doesn't exist?

Could it be an ideology? remember if you claim or attemtp to say God does not exist because of lack of evidence you need to precisely identify what you mean by evidence. Because if you say "physical material evidence" then your plea becomes a circular argument along with a straw man.
So in essence all you really can do is operate from a material mindset, saying no God exists based on a materialist perspective. But the good news for you is, is that mindset is all it really is, it's purely an ideology it's not based on reality because an atheist mindset only comprehends or accepts a material existence, and that is not reality especially through the understanding of theism.

That's because there is no evidence to demonstrate anything exists outside of our material existence. And yes, by evidence I mean factual, testable, verifiable information that unambiguously supports your assertions. Since you cannot in any meaningful way demonstrate your assertion is true, it is rejected pending actual evidence and not arguments from authority or incredulity.

That's baloney and a materialists claim. There is plenty to verify, there is more information regarding spiritual phenomena and insight than anything else. What you are only capable of is repeating the same atheistic dogma over and over.
I've clearly related to you that spirituality is indeed factual, testable and verifiable, but not in a science lab, it's by individual observation.
I show you how this works in almost all of our discussions but you insist on following your ideology and remain ignorant of how spiritual things operate.

Individual observation is not testable or verifiable. It is only evidence that one individual reports observing something. It's not in any way valid as evidence. You cannot repeat it, check it for veracity, or use it to make any predictions about anything.

If you apply this standard to your 'spirituality', do you apply it to, let's say, UFO's where people claim to have been abducted, seen aliens, been medically examined, and all of the other stories that circulate? How about those that claim to have seen Bigfoot or an analog somewhere?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/19/2015 6:50:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 3:19:06 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/19/2015 10:32:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

If God existed He probably wouldn't need a reason to separate our consciousness from His to create us. If we look at modern theology it's all about trying to get closer to God, why would He separate us in the first place?
Because duality is a necessity of existence, therefore something had to exist that thought it was greater or better than God, hence Satan. We then were separated from God in order to gain a level of spiritual wisdom to teach us that you cannot be better than God. Being equal in wisdom is acceptable to God of course. But we were separated to instill in our souls that thinking you're better than God results in what the current state of humanity and the world is. It's a necessary process that by default keeps us from the vanity of Satan when we finally reach the eternal "soul only" state of existence. We will still no evil and good, but the wisdom of all of us will change to the point where evil merely becomes a non issue. It won't affect our decisions or state of "mind".

In so many words you say "God made us to put us in our place". You did not answer the question as to why God made us in the first place. Why would God even create Satan in the first place? Then create us to know that we are not God? Extremely convoluted.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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11/19/2015 6:57:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 10:32:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

If God existed He probably wouldn't need a reason to separate our consciousness from His to create us. If we look at modern theology it's all about trying to get closer to God, why would He separate us in the first place?

Perhaps God was bored and wanted someone else to talk to.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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11/19/2015 7:03:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 6:57:02 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/19/2015 10:32:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

If God existed He probably wouldn't need a reason to separate our consciousness from His to create us. If we look at modern theology it's all about trying to get closer to God, why would He separate us in the first place?

Perhaps God was bored and wanted someone else to talk to.

But he already could chat with Jesus and the holy spirit lol
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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11/19/2015 7:29:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 7:03:57 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 6:57:02 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/19/2015 10:32:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

If God existed He probably wouldn't need a reason to separate our consciousness from His to create us. If we look at modern theology it's all about trying to get closer to God, why would He separate us in the first place?

Perhaps God was bored and wanted someone else to talk to.

But he already could chat with Jesus and the holy spirit lol
And Satan, according to mad Satan and god used to drink up a storm together until god kicked him out in 1914.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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11/20/2015 12:48:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 3:11:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
What would make you think a supreme Creator doesn't exist?

Could it be an ideology? remember if you claim or attemtp to say God does not exist because of lack of evidence you need to precisely identify what you mean by evidence. Because if you say "physical material evidence" then your plea becomes a circular argument along with a straw man.
So in essence all you really can do is operate from a material mindset, saying no God exists based on a materialist perspective. But the good news for you is, is that mindset is all it really is, it's purely an ideology it's not based on reality because an atheist mindset only comprehends or accepts a material existence, and that is not reality especially through the understanding of theism.

It is not because of a lack of material evidence...

If God were to exist, a series of paradoxes would arise. It is therefore impossible for a supreme being to exist, the paradoxes eliminate all attributes except creator of the universe. But because of eternalism, he has no necessary existence there, so he can't.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/20/2015 1:19:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It depends which God.

If you're prepared to talk about God enough for me to determine what your God's key properties are, I can come up with an objectively better universe that is a better fit for those properties.

Without that, it's very easy to simply pull a "property" from your hat and claim my universe is incompatible.
Malsent
Posts: 29
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11/20/2015 1:39:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:03:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:45:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:11:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:11:56 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It would be awesome. I wish a supreme creator existed so bad, especially an omniscient one.

What would make you think a supreme Creator doesn't exist?

Could it be an ideology? remember if you claim or attemtp to say God does not exist because of lack of evidence you need to precisely identify what you mean by evidence. Because if you say "physical material evidence" then your plea becomes a circular argument along with a straw man.
So in essence all you really can do is operate from a material mindset, saying no God exists based on a materialist perspective. But the good news for you is, is that mindset is all it really is, it's purely an ideology it's not based on reality because an atheist mindset only comprehends or accepts a material existence, and that is not reality especially through the understanding of theism.

That's because there is no evidence to demonstrate anything exists outside of our material existence. And yes, by evidence I mean factual, testable, verifiable information that unambiguously supports your assertions. Since you cannot in any meaningful way demonstrate your assertion is true, it is rejected pending actual evidence and not arguments from authority or incredulity.

That's baloney and a materialists claim. There is plenty to verify, there is more information regarding spiritual phenomena and insight than anything else. What you are only capable of is repeating the same atheistic dogma over and over.
I've clearly related to you that spirituality is indeed factual, testable and verifiable, but not in a science lab, it's by individual observation.
I show you how this works in almost all of our discussions but you insist on following your ideology and remain ignorant of how spiritual things operate.

I don't think you want to make the claim that the spiritual world is verifiable from individual experience.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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11/20/2015 1:57:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:03:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:45:04 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:11:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:11:56 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

It would be awesome. I wish a supreme creator existed so bad, especially an omniscient one.

What would make you think a supreme Creator doesn't exist?

Could it be an ideology? remember if you claim or attemtp to say God does not exist because of lack of evidence you need to precisely identify what you mean by evidence. Because if you say "physical material evidence" then your plea becomes a circular argument along with a straw man.
So in essence all you really can do is operate from a material mindset, saying no God exists based on a materialist perspective. But the good news for you is, is that mindset is all it really is, it's purely an ideology it's not based on reality because an atheist mindset only comprehends or accepts a material existence, and that is not reality especially through the understanding of theism.

That's because there is no evidence to demonstrate anything exists outside of our material existence. And yes, by evidence I mean factual, testable, verifiable information that unambiguously supports your assertions. Since you cannot in any meaningful way demonstrate your assertion is true, it is rejected pending actual evidence and not arguments from authority or incredulity.

That's baloney and a materialists claim. There is plenty to verify, there is more information regarding spiritual phenomena and insight than anything else. What you are only capable of is repeating the same atheistic dogma over and over.
I've clearly related to you that spirituality is indeed factual, testable and verifiable, but not in a science lab, it's by individual observation.
I show you how this works in almost all of our discussions but you insist on following your ideology and remain ignorant of how spiritual things operate.

You probably need to google what "factual", "testable" and "verifiable" then.

Because it seems you're using a different definition.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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11/20/2015 4:40:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 10:32:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

If God existed He probably wouldn't need a reason to separate our consciousness from His to create us. If we look at modern theology it's all about trying to get closer to God, why would He separate us in the first place?

I do not think he did, that's a myth. We are god consciousness in my view.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/20/2015 5:38:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 6:50:02 PM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:19:06 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/19/2015 10:32:21 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 4:07:50 AM, drpiek wrote:
How would the universe/world be different?

If God existed He probably wouldn't need a reason to separate our consciousness from His to create us. If we look at modern theology it's all about trying to get closer to God, why would He separate us in the first place?
Because duality is a necessity of existence, therefore something had to exist that thought it was greater or better than God, hence Satan. We then were separated from God in order to gain a level of spiritual wisdom to teach us that you cannot be better than God. Being equal in wisdom is acceptable to God of course. But we were separated to instill in our souls that thinking you're better than God results in what the current state of humanity and the world is. It's a necessary process that by default keeps us from the vanity of Satan when we finally reach the eternal "soul only" state of existence. We will still no evil and good, but the wisdom of all of us will change to the point where evil merely becomes a non issue. It won't affect our decisions or state of "mind".

In so many words you say "God made us to put us in our place". You did not answer the question as to why God made us in the first place. Why would God even create Satan in the first place? Then create us to know that we are not God? Extremely convoluted.

Ummm, you seem to not be able to comprehend English so i'll type it again.
Existence relies on duality..(you do recognize this is a fact right, or do I need to explain to you female, male, positive charge and negative charged particles, light and darkness,.etc.)
As it is clearly stated, Thinking you are better than God coincides with thinking you are not as good as god. Both ideas are symbiotic. Satan had to exist to represent what thinking you are better than God results in, very simple. It makes the rest of Gods creation free from this necessity.
Asking why God created us in the first place isn't a response, it's an immature viewpoint and completely ridiculous to assume or assert there needs to be an answer. Quite frankly its equivalent to a child asking why this, why this, why that, why why why. Its just stupid.