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miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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11/19/2015 6:06:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm an atheist, and I've read the Qu'ran and the Bible. I'd love to just ask questions of a theist in an environment where I won't be attacked. This forum is also of course open to those who wish to ask questions of me. My intention is peaceful, so please, do not come into this predisposed for defensiveness.
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
Chaosism
Posts: 2,674
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11/19/2015 7:39:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Welcome to the DDO forums...

You're best bet is to just politely ask a question publicly, and see who decides they want to answer it. Don't be surprised, though, when other people chime in and the thread spirals and splinters into off-topic arguments, perhaps with some petty squabbles. Other than that, if you remain considerate, others will generally remain so to you, as well (in general).
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/20/2015 12:16:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 6:06:09 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm an atheist, and I've read the Qu'ran and the Bible. I'd love to just ask questions of a theist in an environment where I won't be attacked. This forum is also of course open to those who wish to ask questions of me. My intention is peaceful, so please, do not come into this predisposed for defensiveness.

I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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11/20/2015 5:37:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...

the reasoning to believe is the salvation and paradise in hereafter. I don't want to adhere the religion if it didn't have the salvation promise. why on earth would I have a belief if I don't gain anything in hereafter?
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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11/20/2015 5:40:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:37:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...

the reasoning to believe is the salvation and paradise in hereafter. I don't want to adhere the religion if it didn't have the salvation promise. why on earth would I have a belief if I don't gain anything in hereafter?

Certainly, and I understand that, but what proof do you have of such a "hereafter"? I see that the bible is simply an enormous list of rules, being enforced by the promise of heaven or threat of hell... But really, those rules just boil down to "Be a good person." I don't understand why this should require a religion based upon it.
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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11/20/2015 5:51:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:40:07 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:37:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...

the reasoning to believe is the salvation and paradise in hereafter. I don't want to adhere the religion if it didn't have the salvation promise. why on earth would I have a belief if I don't gain anything in hereafter?

Certainly, and I understand that, but what proof do you have of such a "hereafter"? I see that the bible is simply an enormous list of rules, being enforced by the promise of heaven or threat of hell... But really, those rules just boil down to "Be a good person." I don't understand why this should require a religion based upon it.

Religion is the proof of hereafter. It explains it in quite some detail.
We don't need to be a good person to gain salvation and paradise, rather we are only supposed to adhere the religious teaching.
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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11/20/2015 7:11:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:51:14 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:40:07 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:37:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...

the reasoning to believe is the salvation and paradise in hereafter. I don't want to adhere the religion if it didn't have the salvation promise. why on earth would I have a belief if I don't gain anything in hereafter?

Certainly, and I understand that, but what proof do you have of such a "hereafter"? I see that the bible is simply an enormous list of rules, being enforced by the promise of heaven or threat of hell... But really, those rules just boil down to "Be a good person." I don't understand why this should require a religion based upon it.


Religion is the proof of hereafter. It explains it in quite some detail.
We don't need to be a good person to gain salvation and paradise, rather we are only supposed to adhere the religious teaching.

Okay, but saying "the bible is right because the bible says so" gets me no closer to a real answer.
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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11/20/2015 7:14:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy.

That part is not true. It's more along the lines of "What am I?" ... ."How did I get here?" ... "Can account for man based upon chance mutations?"
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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11/20/2015 7:16:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 7:14:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy.

That part is not true. It's more along the lines of "What am I?" ... ."How did I get here?" ... "Can account for man based upon chance mutations?"

It may not be true for you, but I know many people for whom it definitely rings true. And thank you for replying! May I ask, how does religion help you to answer those questions for yourself?
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/20/2015 8:57:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...

As you said, conditioning from a young age has a lot to do with it in most cases. People grow up in their particular religion or culture, make friends there, trust their friends and authorities are being honest with them, and feel a certain security amongst what they have come to accept as their reality.
You will most likely find that any people who were "born again" or converted to some religious belief later in life are generally people who were dissatisfied with the circumstances they were in and were looking for a change in life. They grab onto whatever makes them feel good at the time, even if it just a false hope.
The same applies to believers who convert to being atheists. The principle of conversion works both ways. It is about people who are dissatisfied with their situations and grab onto whatever they are convinced will change those circumstances. Those people are generally trying to escape from the reality they do not like which very often is themselves and their own thoughts, especially when those thoughts create confusion and conflict in their minds.
Some turn to religion, some walk away from religion. Some turn to drugs and alcohol, some walk away from those things. Religion, like alcohol or drugs, is just another way of escape from what people don't want to face. Religion, religious doctrines and faith, is a mental addiction to many.
Any addict needs to want to be set free from their addiction but people who are addicted to their own mental state and enjoy that state of mind will not change their minds. Only those who are dissatisfied with their own state of mind will even consider questioning their own beliefs and changing their way of thinking.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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11/20/2015 9:06:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 7:16:51 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 7:14:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy.

That part is not true. It's more along the lines of "What am I?" ... ."How did I get here?" ... "Can account for man based upon chance mutations?"

It may not be true for you, but I know many people for whom it definitely rings true. And thank you for replying! May I ask, how does religion help you to answer those questions for yourself?

You know people who say, "I believe in a deity of some sort because I have this underlying "need for hope of a definite future"?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/20/2015 9:19:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:37:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...

the reasoning to believe is the salvation and paradise in hereafter. I don't want to adhere the religion if it didn't have the salvation promise. why on earth would I have a belief if I don't gain anything in hereafter?

Don't you think any salvation is for the here and now? If you are not saved from anything in your time on Earth, whats the point of the salvation concept?
Is it not supposed to save people from sin while they are still alive?
No dead people sin, not even dead atheists. The dead are incapable of sinning.
However, obviously theists do not believe in salvation from sin while they are still alive since they all continue to sin. They violate their own consciences and also laws of the land in some cases. If they did not, no theists would end up in jail but they obviously do.

As for any paradise after you die, well the dead all rest in peace and have no pain since they all feel nothing. Call that paradise if you like but I am saying that all end up in the same situation regardless of whether they believe in supernatural characters or not.

Living happily ever after you die is a fairy tale. Dead people remain dead. Physically dead bodies never live again. Mentally dead/sleeping people however can gain a new mental attitude and see things in a new light when they wake up to themselves.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/20/2015 9:26:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:51:14 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:40:07 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:37:08 PM, uncung wrote:

the reasoning to believe is the salvation and paradise in hereafter. I don't want to adhere the religion if it didn't have the salvation promise. why on earth would I have a belief if I don't gain anything in hereafter?

Certainly, and I understand that, but what proof do you have of such a "hereafter"? I see that the bible is simply an enormous list of rules, being enforced by the promise of heaven or threat of hell... But really, those rules just boil down to "Be a good person." I don't understand why this should require a religion based upon it.


Religion is the proof of hereafter. It explains it in quite some detail.
We don't need to be a good person to gain salvation and paradise, rather we are only supposed to adhere the religious teaching.

Religion is not proof of any hereafter. It is merely proof that many gullible people fall for stories about individuals having a new life after physical death.
Claiming religion is proof of hereafter is like claiming a gift under a xmas tree is proof of Santa. It is illogical thinking.
Religion is proof that humans gather together in clubs and believe their own clubs stories.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/20/2015 9:38:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 7:16:51 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 7:14:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy.

That part is not true. It's more along the lines of "What am I?" ... ."How did I get here?" ... "Can account for man based upon chance mutations?"

It may not be true for you, but I know many people for whom it definitely rings true. And thank you for replying! May I ask, how does religion help you to answer those questions for yourself?

My perception regarding the "specks of dust" is that we consist of a body and also energy within a body.
The body can be perceived as materialistic and that changes to dust when we die.
The energy ( including emotions, thoughts, etc ) can be perceived as the immaterial or spiritual part of us. That energy goes back to the energy in the universe which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. That part of us is eternal. Energy is everywhere within us and all around us. We are within it and it is within us.
Energy = Spirit, attitudes, vibes, life.
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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11/20/2015 9:41:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 9:38:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 7:16:51 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 7:14:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy.

That part is not true. It's more along the lines of "What am I?" ... ."How did I get here?" ... "Can account for man based upon chance mutations?"

It may not be true for you, but I know many people for whom it definitely rings true. And thank you for replying! May I ask, how does religion help you to answer those questions for yourself?

My perception regarding the "specks of dust" is that we consist of a body and also energy within a body.
The body can be perceived as materialistic and that changes to dust when we die.
The energy ( including emotions, thoughts, etc ) can be perceived as the immaterial or spiritual part of us. That energy goes back to the energy in the universe which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. That part of us is eternal. Energy is everywhere within us and all around us. We are within it and it is within us.
Energy = Spirit, attitudes, vibes, life.

Where does the energy go when you die?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/20/2015 9:55:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 9:41:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:38:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 7:16:51 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 7:14:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy.

That part is not true. It's more along the lines of "What am I?" ... ."How did I get here?" ... "Can account for man based upon chance mutations?"

It may not be true for you, but I know many people for whom it definitely rings true. And thank you for replying! May I ask, how does religion help you to answer those questions for yourself?

My perception regarding the "specks of dust" is that we consist of a body and also energy within a body.
The body can be perceived as materialistic and that changes to dust when we die.
The energy ( including emotions, thoughts, etc ) can be perceived as the immaterial or spiritual part of us. That energy goes back to the energy in the universe which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. That part of us is eternal. Energy is everywhere within us and all around us. We are within it and it is within us.
Energy = Spirit, attitudes, vibes, life.

Where does the energy go when you die?

Back to the same place it came from in the first place.
Where did you get it from in the first place?
The universe is filled with energy in many different forms. You merely change form when your body dies. You are constantly changing form as the old form passes away and is replaced by the new.
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,685
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11/20/2015 9:58:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 6:06:09 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm an atheist, and I've read the Qu'ran and the Bible. I'd love to just ask questions of a theist in an environment where I won't be attacked. This forum is also of course open to those who wish to ask questions of me. My intention is peaceful, so please, do not come into this predisposed for defensiveness.

Am a Muslim. Nice to see your intentions are peaceful, do you have any questions about Islam?
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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11/20/2015 10:08:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 9:55:44 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:41:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:38:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 7:16:51 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 7:14:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy.

That part is not true. It's more along the lines of "What am I?" ... ."How did I get here?" ... "Can account for man based upon chance mutations?"

It may not be true for you, but I know many people for whom it definitely rings true. And thank you for replying! May I ask, how does religion help you to answer those questions for yourself?

My perception regarding the "specks of dust" is that we consist of a body and also energy within a body.
The body can be perceived as materialistic and that changes to dust when we die.
The energy ( including emotions, thoughts, etc ) can be perceived as the immaterial or spiritual part of us. That energy goes back to the energy in the universe which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. That part of us is eternal. Energy is everywhere within us and all around us. We are within it and it is within us.
Energy = Spirit, attitudes, vibes, life.

Where does the energy go when you die?

Back to the same place it came from in the first place.
Where did you get it from in the first place?
The universe is filled with energy in many different forms. You merely change form when your body dies. You are constantly changing form as the old form passes away and is replaced by the new.

How do you "change forms" when your body dies? I can imagine our energy being transferred to bacteria if our body is buried in the ground. But where does it go if we are embalmed for instance?

What about right after we die? It seems the life force must leave our body, but I can't imagine where it might go.

It seems SOMETHING leaves our body when we die, whatever it is that animates us.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/20/2015 10:34:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 10:08:20 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:55:44 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:41:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:38:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Energy = Spirit, attitudes, vibes, life.

Where does the energy go when you die?

Back to the same place it came from in the first place.
Where did you get it from in the first place?
The universe is filled with energy in many different forms. You merely change form when your body dies. You are constantly changing form as the old form passes away and is replaced by the new.

How do you "change forms" when your body dies? I can imagine our energy being transferred to bacteria if our body is buried in the ground. But where does it go if we are embalmed for instance?

How do you change form from a embryo to a baby or a baby to an adult? The process is called growth when you are in the process of becoming something. After death, the process is called decomposition.
Obviously we are constantly changing form as the old passes away in the process of being replaced by the new you.
What happened to the baby you once were? Where did it go?

What about right after we die? It seems the life force must leave our body, but I can't imagine where it might go.

I just told you. Is there something wrong with your comprehension?
The energy ( life force) goes back to the corporate energy (life force) in the universe.
Compare it to a drop of water. Where does the drop go when it evaporates? The H2O in a single drop joins the H2O in the rest of the atmosphere. The drop simply disappears from human view in the form of a drop but the substance which makes up the drop still exists.
Your substance is energy which cannot be created or destroyed. You have always existed as energy and will always exist as energy. The various visible forms you take on are merely part of your cycle. You can choose to learn from all the aspects of that cycle or simply take them for granted and learn nothing useful to pass on to future generations.

It seems SOMETHING leaves our body when we die, whatever it is that animates us.

Energy. It departs from the dead. Have you ever seen an energetic dead person ?
janesix
Posts: 3,491
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11/20/2015 10:38:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 10:34:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 10:08:20 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:55:44 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:41:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:38:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Energy = Spirit, attitudes, vibes, life.

Where does the energy go when you die?

Back to the same place it came from in the first place.
Where did you get it from in the first place?
The universe is filled with energy in many different forms. You merely change form when your body dies. You are constantly changing form as the old form passes away and is replaced by the new.

How do you "change forms" when your body dies? I can imagine our energy being transferred to bacteria if our body is buried in the ground. But where does it go if we are embalmed for instance?

How do you change form from a embryo to a baby or a baby to an adult? The process is called growth when you are in the process of becoming something. After death, the process is called decomposition.
Obviously we are constantly changing form as the old passes away in the process of being replaced by the new you.
What happened to the baby you once were? Where did it go?

What about right after we die? It seems the life force must leave our body, but I can't imagine where it might go.

I just told you. Is there something wrong with your comprehension?
The energy ( life force) goes back to the corporate energy (life force) in the universe.
Compare it to a drop of water. Where does the drop go when it evaporates? The H2O in a single drop joins the H2O in the rest of the atmosphere. The drop simply disappears from human view in the form of a drop but the substance which makes up the drop still exists.
Your substance is energy which cannot be created or destroyed. You have always existed as energy and will always exist as energy. The various visible forms you take on are merely part of your cycle. You can choose to learn from all the aspects of that cycle or simply take them for granted and learn nothing useful to pass on to future generations.

It seems SOMETHING leaves our body when we die, whatever it is that animates us.

Energy. It departs from the dead. Have you ever seen an energetic dead person ?

And goes where? The air? The ground? Have you actually thought this through? Otherwise, it's just New Age nonsense.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/20/2015 10:55:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 10:38:37 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 10:34:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 10:08:20 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:55:44 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:41:57 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/20/2015 9:38:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Energy = Spirit, attitudes, vibes, life.

Where does the energy go when you die?

Back to the same place it came from in the first place.
Where did you get it from in the first place?
The universe is filled with energy in many different forms. You merely change form when your body dies. You are constantly changing form as the old form passes away and is replaced by the new.

How do you "change forms" when your body dies? I can imagine our energy being transferred to bacteria if our body is buried in the ground. But where does it go if we are embalmed for instance?

How do you change form from a embryo to a baby or a baby to an adult? The process is called growth when you are in the process of becoming something. After death, the process is called decomposition.
Obviously we are constantly changing form as the old passes away in the process of being replaced by the new you.
What happened to the baby you once were? Where did it go?

What about right after we die? It seems the life force must leave our body, but I can't imagine where it might go.

I just told you. Is there something wrong with your comprehension?
The energy ( life force) goes back to the corporate energy (life force) in the universe.
Compare it to a drop of water. Where does the drop go when it evaporates? The H2O in a single drop joins the H2O in the rest of the atmosphere. The drop simply disappears from human view in the form of a drop but the substance which makes up the drop still exists.
Your substance is energy which cannot be created or destroyed. You have always existed as energy and will always exist as energy. The various visible forms you take on are merely part of your cycle. You can choose to learn from all the aspects of that cycle or simply take them for granted and learn nothing useful to pass on to future generations.

It seems SOMETHING leaves our body when we die, whatever it is that animates us.

Energy. It departs from the dead. Have you ever seen an energetic dead person ?

And goes where? The air? The ground? Have you actually thought this through? Otherwise, it's just New Age nonsense.

Yes I have. Obviously you have not, otherwise you would comprehend what I wrote. It seems you are having a hard time understanding the words.

Try reading them over a few times till you have that "AHA" moment when the light goes on in your head.
https://s3.amazonaws.com...

Currently you seem to be more like this.....
http://static.comicvine.com...
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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11/20/2015 11:27:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 6:06:09 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm an atheist, and I've read the Qu'ran and the Bible. I'd love to just ask questions of a theist in an environment where I won't be attacked. This forum is also of course open to those who wish to ask questions of me. My intention is peaceful, so please, do not come into this predisposed for defensiveness.

I read all your replies and contentions from others. One thing stuck out to me; why do you think there is no hope to be found? I understand there isn't sufficient evidence for the supernatural. Religion can also be proven to be speculation from mere humans. But, our minds, our imagination, what we are... is a wonder. Now, i am not going to use the fallacy to say that proves anything, but at the very least it should make you think. I am secular but spiritual. There is a reason. I find logic in mortality. Think about it this way... if there is immortality (an unbound intelligence); would mortality not be a logical creation? I think about it like this: Immortality is preparing experiences; mortality would be living experiences. What is my proof? Unfortunately, i have come to my conclusion with anecdotal evidence; my life. This holds true for no one except me; i get that. But, if you keep an open mind, you can take away something from a person like me. I am absolutely not boasting bc i would trade my experiences to someone else if i could, but i have had ones i can't explain (it seems so far to me not many have my personality). The reason i am on here (or the like) is to see if anyone says anything that would help me figure out the why? I am still searching. In the end, at this point, i am 70% and rising more spiritual then secular. I look, or try to see, spirituality as logical as possible. I have come to some interesting cross roads. Feel free to ask me. I am not religious so i am not trying to convert lol. But i do have some philosophies that you may find interesting; they support spirituality. I guess i am trying to say i find an "immortal" realm possible when it comes to human consciousness.
EtrnlVw
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11/21/2015 2:08:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...

Actually spirituality is not just for the future, in Christianity it applies to this life, I went over similar details in the topic "what does your religion provide in this life" you can read my reply there.
Despite what the rumor is theistic beliefs are not just for the after life, spirituality is in the moment and relates to us now, not just later. The now actually impacts the later, you can't have the later without the now...

I did not attain my beliefs because of hope lol, it's because of truth and reality. It actually is irrelevant for what I hope, my spiritual beliefs are based on what I observe and what is logical not what I want to believe or hope is the truth.
DB8
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11/21/2015 2:58:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 6:06:09 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm an atheist, and I've read the Qu'ran and the Bible.

You are an Islamic Christian posing as an atheist!
I tried to write my signature on the screen but my pen ran out of ink.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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11/21/2015 3:55:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:37:08 PM, uncung wrote:
At 11/20/2015 5:21:39 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

Excellent, I appreciate it. I was honestly just curious what gives someone their drive to believe in a deity. I mean, I understand that it stems from a need for hope of a definite future, hope that we aren't just specks of dust spiraling through the galaxy. I feel that need as well, but my personal belief is there is no hope to be found. I find it easier to disregard the distant future as much as possible and live for the present. But I can't quite understand where theists find the... I'm not sure what word would fit best--Not proof... Perhaps the reasoning for belief. Why to have faith.

I'll give what reasons I know of from growing up in a primarily Christian family and having abundant opportunities for observation. The first, and most obvious to me, is conditioning from a young age. If beliefs are firmly instated at a time when questions can be deflected quite easily, then it makes perfect sense as to why people are theists. My true inquiry is of those who perhaps are "born again Christians," or something of the like. People who discover and begin their religious ties later in life, when logic is fully developed.

I hope that doesn't sound too strange...

the reasoning to believe is the salvation and paradise in hereafter. I don't want to adhere the religion if it didn't have the salvation promise. why on earth would I have a belief if I don't gain anything in hereafter?
The universal (figuratively speaking) reason in a nutshell comes from uncung.
Fear of Death.
Overwhelming hubris.
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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11/21/2015 4:40:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Religion is the proof of hereafter. It explains it in quite some detail.
We don't need to be a good person to gain salvation and paradise, rather we are only supposed to adhere the religious teaching.

Okay, but saying "the bible is right because the bible says so" gets me no closer to a real answer.

If the religious scripture claimed theirs are true then it is your next task to disprove it.
uncung
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11/21/2015 4:42:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Religion is the proof of hereafter. It explains it in quite some detail.
We don't need to be a good person to gain salvation and paradise, rather we are only supposed to adhere the religious teaching.

Religion is not proof of any hereafter. It is merely proof that many gullible people fall for stories about individuals having a new life after physical death.
Claiming religion is proof of hereafter is like claiming a gift under a xmas tree is proof of Santa. It is illogical thinking.
Religion is proof that humans gather together in clubs and believe their own clubs stories.

Religion is qualified as the proof of invisible place such hereafter.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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11/21/2015 5:06:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 12:16:25 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/19/2015 6:06:09 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm an atheist, and I've read the Qu'ran and the Bible. I'd love to just ask questions of a theist in an environment where I won't be attacked. This forum is also of course open to those who wish to ask questions of me. My intention is peaceful, so please, do not come into this predisposed for defensiveness.

I am neither an atheist or a theist. I see the "God concept" from both perspectives and I am curious to read your questions.
Ask them on this thread and I will give you my answers if I have any.

now that is interesting, how can you neither believe that gods exist, or don't believe that gods exist?

do you believe that the god of the bible exists?
do you believe that the god of the torah exists?
do you believe that the god of the quran exists?
do you believe that Odin and his pantheon exists?
do you believe that Zues and his pantheon exists?
are there any gods that you believe exists?
if the answer is "i don't know" then you should be aware that knowing and believing are 2 different things, and that would make you agnostic toward those deities.

if you believe something to be true, then you can't know that it is not-true
however you can believe something to be true, and not know it to be true
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/21/2015 5:16:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/21/2015 4:42:32 AM, uncung wrote:
Religion is the proof of hereafter. It explains it in quite some detail.
We don't need to be a good person to gain salvation and paradise, rather we are only supposed to adhere the religious teaching.

Religion is not proof of any hereafter. It is merely proof that many gullible people fall for stories about individuals having a new life after physical death.
Claiming religion is proof of hereafter is like claiming a gift under a xmas tree is proof of Santa. It is illogical thinking.
Religion is proof that humans gather together in clubs and believe their own clubs stories.

Religion is qualified as the proof of invisible place such hereafter.

Obviously English is not your first language. What you wrote makes no sense.
Who or what qualified religion as proof of anything other than itself and its own myths and false doctrines?