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Hell is a state of mind.

Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/24/2015 11:39:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Many believers seem to think hell is some "spiritual" location where bad people go to be punished after they die.

In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
All people end up in the grave "sheowl" when they die.

Death is a natural part of life. It is not a punishment for living.

In a metaphorical sense "hell" is simply a state of mind where a person is suffering emotional guilt, confusion, inner turmoil, or inner darkness in the sense of lacking understanding of the difference between reality and their fantasy world.

There is no land of happily ever after or heaven after you die physically.
There is no land of eternal torment or torture after you die physically.

Dead people know and feel nothing. That is why we have the concept of them "resting in peace". Nothing hurts them. Nothing annoys them. Nothing worries them. etc due to the fact that they no longer have any physical senses.

Any heaven or hell is referring to a state of mind of the living.
You either live in understanding or you live in ignorance.
You either live in a state of knowing you are innocent or guilty of whatever you have done.
Innocent people have an inner peace ( heaven). Guilty people do not. Guilty people already live in "Hell on Earth". Their own conscience torments them.

People who have convinced themselves that hell and heaven are some invisible locations where people go after they die, are kidding themselves, deceiving themselves and living in darkness and foolishness while calling their own darkness "light" or believing they have received some kind of "spiritual enlightenment".

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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11/24/2015 11:47:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/24/2015 11:39:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
Looks like the Watchtower has it right.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/24/2015 11:47:37 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:39:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
Looks like the Watchtower has it right.

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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11/25/2015 12:05:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

EE: What is your definition of a atheist?

Is it mostly someone that doesn't believe in man made Gods, or ?
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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11/25/2015 12:07:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 12:05:49 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:

EE: What is your definition of a atheist?

Is it mostly someone that doesn't believe in man made Gods, or ?
atheist - one who believes that there is no deity (Merriam-Webster)
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist. I believe God is life in general and all its forces, cycles, principles, etc which can be observed as easily as you observe energy, wind, magnetism or human emotions.

I simply understand that ALL invisible supernatural gods including the Hebrew one are merely personifications of the power/energy that exists in the universe. The powers are obviously real but the characters which personify those powers are mythical.
Worshiping any invisible supernatural gods is the same as worshiping Zeus or any other Greek gods. It is childish foolishness and superstitious nonsense.
It shows a lack of understanding of anthropomorphism, ancient metaphors, idioms allegories, parables, etc.

Taking myths and poetry literally is a very foolish thing to do.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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11/25/2015 12:21:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 12:07:16 AM, tstor wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:05:49 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:

EE: What is your definition of a atheist?

Is it mostly someone that doesn't believe in man made Gods, or ?
atheist - one who believes that there is no deity (Merriam-Webster)

EE: So you would also consider that in politics that if a person is not a democrat, that they MUST be a republican? No other CHOICES?

What about a person that doesn't believe in politics and has no need for a political party?

Seems that the religious have their atheists as the other side of the coin and the atheists have religion as the other side of their coin to point fingers at.

What if a person is not either?

I upset and bother the so called atheists more then I do the religious as most atheists are just wanna bee BIG heads that want to believe they are smarter then the religious as they have fancy man made degrees that "prove" they are smart,lol.

If you must try and place me in a box with a label so that you feel a bit more at ease.

I AM a human anomaly in a invisible box.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/25/2015 12:22:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 12:07:16 AM, tstor wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:05:49 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:

EE: What is your definition of a atheist?

Is it mostly someone that doesn't believe in man made Gods, or ?
atheist - one who believes that there is no deity (Merriam-Webster)

Are you an atheist when it comes to all the Greek Gods?
Or do you believe one of those gods must exist ?

There is no difference between Greek gods and gods from any other cultures including the Hebrew gods.

ALL invisible supernatural gods are mythical.
If you don't believe that, please explain why you think one invisible supernatural entity is real while you reject all the rest as myths?

Did someone brainwash you or are you just fooling yourself?
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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11/25/2015 12:28:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 12:21:38 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:

EE: What is your definition of a atheist?

Is it mostly someone that doesn't believe in man made Gods, or ?
atheist - one who believes that there is no deity (Merriam-Webster)

EE: So you would also consider that in politics that if a person is not a democrat, that they MUST be a republican? No other CHOICES?
Nope.

What about a person that doesn't believe in politics and has no need for a political party?
Like myself? I just say that I am politically neutral.

Seems that the religious have their atheists as the other side of the coin and the atheists have religion as the other side of their coin to point fingers at.

What if a person is not either?
Then they pick a label like "agnostic." This is defined as "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" (Merriam-Webster)

I upset and bother the so called atheists more then I do the religious as most atheists are just wanna bee BIG heads that want to believe they are smarter then the religious as they have fancy man made degrees that "prove" they are smart,lol.

If you must try and place me in a box with a label so that you feel a bit more at ease.

I AM a human anomaly in a invisible box.
Alright.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Chaosism
Posts: 2,649
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11/25/2015 12:32:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 12:21:38 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:07:16 AM, tstor wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:05:49 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:

EE: What is your definition of a atheist?

Is it mostly someone that doesn't believe in man made Gods, or ?
atheist - one who believes that there is no deity (Merriam-Webster)

EE: So you would also consider that in politics that if a person is not a democrat, that they MUST be a republican? No other CHOICES?

What about a person that doesn't believe in politics and has no need for a political party?

Seems that the religious have their atheists as the other side of the coin and the atheists have religion as the other side of their coin to point fingers at.

What if a person is not either?

Have you heard the term, "apatheist"? From Wiki: ...also known as pragmatic atheism or practical atheism, is acting with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity or deities.

I upset and bother the so called atheists more then I do the religious as most atheists are just wanna bee BIG heads that want to believe they are smarter then the religious as they have fancy man made degrees that "prove" they are smart,lol.

If you must try and place me in a box with a label so that you feel a bit more at ease.

I AM a human anomaly in a invisible box.

Like a mime? :)
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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11/25/2015 1:08:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
A person can CHOOSE not to be of this world meaning that they don't follow or believe in the many popular ways of the world that don't complement them within reality.

neutral is another label for a fence sitter that tries to FIT IN between the most popular of the deceptions and lies called good.

I find it interesting that the programmed and brainwashed by their own personal free will choices can't and WON'T SEE beyond the fetters and imprisonment that they choose.

I myself choose the Way, the Truth and the Life that is BEYOND the superstitious mindsets that plague and imprison the many.

Why have make believe Gods and si-fi theories that have a "possible" future payoff, when you can have Heaven in the NOW?
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Pase66
Posts: 775
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11/25/2015 2:36:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/24/2015 11:39:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many believers seem to think hell is some "spiritual" location where bad people go to be punished after they die.

In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
All people end up in the grave "sheowl" when they die.

Death is a natural part of life. It is not a punishment for living.

In a metaphorical sense "hell" is simply a state of mind where a person is suffering emotional guilt, confusion, inner turmoil, or inner darkness in the sense of lacking understanding of the difference between reality and their fantasy world.

There is no land of happily ever after or heaven after you die physically.
There is no land of eternal torment or torture after you die physically.

Dead people know and feel nothing. That is why we have the concept of them "resting in peace". Nothing hurts them. Nothing annoys them. Nothing worries them. etc due to the fact that they no longer have any physical senses.

Any heaven or hell is referring to a state of mind of the living.
You either live in understanding or you live in ignorance.
You either live in a state of knowing you are innocent or guilty of whatever you have done.
Innocent people have an inner peace ( heaven). Guilty people do not. Guilty people already live in "Hell on Earth". Their own conscience torments them.

People who have convinced themselves that hell and heaven are some invisible locations where people go after they die, are kidding themselves, deceiving themselves and living in darkness and foolishness while calling their own darkness "light" or believing they have received some kind of "spiritual enlightenment".

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.

I think the existential hell of Jean Paul Sartre is pretty interesting. In his play "No Exit", he details a hell in which three people are confined to live in a room together for the rest of eternity. My take away was that, hell is being under the constant gaze of people, and their judgement taking away you're freedom. And in this lack of freedom, one can go to the fringes of hell. Now, my interpretation might be wrong (as I study philosophy, but not really existentialism), but it still is an interesting read. Sartre himself was a very interesting author.
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Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/25/2015 4:55:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 2:36:28 AM, Pase66 wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:39:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many believers seem to think hell is some "spiritual" location where bad people go to be punished after they die.

In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
All people end up in the grave "sheowl" when they die.

Death is a natural part of life. It is not a punishment for living.

In a metaphorical sense "hell" is simply a state of mind where a person is suffering emotional guilt, confusion, inner turmoil, or inner darkness in the sense of lacking understanding of the difference between reality and their fantasy world.

There is no land of happily ever after or heaven after you die physically.
There is no land of eternal torment or torture after you die physically.

Dead people know and feel nothing. That is why we have the concept of them "resting in peace". Nothing hurts them. Nothing annoys them. Nothing worries them. etc due to the fact that they no longer have any physical senses.

Any heaven or hell is referring to a state of mind of the living.
You either live in understanding or you live in ignorance.
You either live in a state of knowing you are innocent or guilty of whatever you have done.
Innocent people have an inner peace ( heaven). Guilty people do not. Guilty people already live in "Hell on Earth". Their own conscience torments them.

People who have convinced themselves that hell and heaven are some invisible locations where people go after they die, are kidding themselves, deceiving themselves and living in darkness and foolishness while calling their own darkness "light" or believing they have received some kind of "spiritual enlightenment".

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.

I think the existential hell of Jean Paul Sartre is pretty interesting. In his play "No Exit", he details a hell in which three people are confined to live in a room together for the rest of eternity. My take away was that, hell is being under the constant gaze of people, and their judgement taking away you're freedom. And in this lack of freedom, one can go to the fringes of hell. Now, my interpretation might be wrong (as I study philosophy, but not really existentialism), but it still is an interesting read. Sartre himself was a very interesting author.

https://archive.org...
The above is the play script for anyone interested.

The irony is that the dead 'Live" at all, let alone forever in self judgment or in the judgment of others.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/25/2015 5:04:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/24/2015 11:47:37 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:39:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
Looks like the Watchtower has it right.

If so, the Hebrew scholars and the lexicons they penned based upon their study have it ... wrong.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.
I believe God and gods exist in reality and are perfectly visible and observable. I am not an atheist. I merely define God and gods as something different to invisible supernatural characters who cannot be observed.
God is an anthropomorphism of the powers of the universe and all life.
The supernatural characters are mythical but the power / energy is not. The powers are very observable.

One day you might comprehend that if you ever put your childish perceptions behind you, grow up and stop talking to your invisible supernatural friends.

Now pay attention, Grow up and stop making sweeping false statements about things you have no clue about.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/25/2015 11:39:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.

Sure it does. It makes all the difference in the world. Read the dictionary:

1. capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a. the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

It would indeed be strange if Merriam-Webster has it all wrong - yet a crackpot gets it right.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/25/2015 11:41:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.
I believe God and gods exist in reality and are perfectly visible and observable. I am not an atheist. I merely define God and gods as something different to invisible supernatural characters who cannot be observed.

Defining words is not your cup of tea. In fact, that's the job of experts. Do you accept the dictionary definition of "God" with a capital "G". Of course not.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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11/25/2015 11:47:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/24/2015 11:39:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many believers seem to think hell is some "spiritual" location where bad people go to be punished after they die.

In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
All people end up in the grave "sheowl" when they die.

Death is a natural part of life. It is not a punishment for living.

In a metaphorical sense "hell" is simply a state of mind where a person is suffering emotional guilt, confusion, inner turmoil, or inner darkness in the sense of lacking understanding of the difference between reality and their fantasy world.

There is no land of happily ever after or heaven after you die physically.
There is no land of eternal torment or torture after you die physically.

Dead people know and feel nothing. That is why we have the concept of them "resting in peace". Nothing hurts them. Nothing annoys them. Nothing worries them. etc due to the fact that they no longer have any physical senses.

Any heaven or hell is referring to a state of mind of the living.
You either live in understanding or you live in ignorance.
You either live in a state of knowing you are innocent or guilty of whatever you have done.
Innocent people have an inner peace ( heaven). Guilty people do not. Guilty people already live in "Hell on Earth". Their own conscience torments them.

People who have convinced themselves that hell and heaven are some invisible locations where people go after they die, are kidding themselves, deceiving themselves and living in darkness and foolishness while calling their own darkness "light" or believing they have received some kind of "spiritual enlightenment".

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.

I think the Jews would like to take that word for hell back and call it the holocaust.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/26/2015 12:03:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 11:39:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.

Sure it does. It makes all the difference in the world. Read the dictionary:

Only in the English language Anna, and only to nit pickers who have not studied the Hebrew word "elohiym" and obviously have no understanding of it.

1. capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a. the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

It would indeed be strange if Merriam-Webster has it all wrong - yet a crackpot gets it right.

Are you aware the Hebrew symbols do not use upper and lower case? God and gods are exactly the same word ("elohiym") in Hebrew. The word is the plural of "'elowahh" for a start and does not refer to any individual entity but to a group or a corporate body.
The God ( "elohiym") referred to in Genesis 1:1 is the same ( "elohiym") translated as "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and Isaiah 41:23.
The same word ( "elohiym") has been translated as judges referring to human judges in Exodus 21:6 and Exodus 22:8-9

Pay attention and notice the word "elohiym" in the bible stories, often refers to ordinary people.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/26/2015 12:06:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 11:41:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.
I believe God and gods exist in reality and are perfectly visible and observable. I am not an atheist. I merely define God and gods as something different to invisible supernatural characters who cannot be observed.

Defining words is not your cup of tea. In fact, that's the job of experts. Do you accept the dictionary definition of "God" with a capital "G". Of course not.

When a story has been translated into English from a different language, you would be wise to study and understand the meaning of the words, metaphors, idioms, etc, in the original language. Anna.

Much meaning can get lost in translation. If you knew any other language than English you would understand that.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/26/2015 12:08:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 11:47:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:39:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many believers seem to think hell is some "spiritual" location where bad people go to be punished after they die.

In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
All people end up in the grave "sheowl" when they die.

Death is a natural part of life. It is not a punishment for living.

In a metaphorical sense "hell" is simply a state of mind where a person is suffering emotional guilt, confusion, inner turmoil, or inner darkness in the sense of lacking understanding of the difference between reality and their fantasy world.

There is no land of happily ever after or heaven after you die physically.
There is no land of eternal torment or torture after you die physically.

Dead people know and feel nothing. That is why we have the concept of them "resting in peace". Nothing hurts them. Nothing annoys them. Nothing worries them. etc due to the fact that they no longer have any physical senses.

Any heaven or hell is referring to a state of mind of the living.
You either live in understanding or you live in ignorance.
You either live in a state of knowing you are innocent or guilty of whatever you have done.
Innocent people have an inner peace ( heaven). Guilty people do not. Guilty people already live in "Hell on Earth". Their own conscience torments them.

People who have convinced themselves that hell and heaven are some invisible locations where people go after they die, are kidding themselves, deceiving themselves and living in darkness and foolishness while calling their own darkness "light" or believing they have received some kind of "spiritual enlightenment".

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.

I think the Jews would like to take that word for hell back and call it the holocaust.

That certainly was hell on Earth for many at the time.
kp98
Posts: 729
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11/26/2015 12:16:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
In reality the word "sheowl" in Hebrew ( translated as hell ) simply refers to the grave.
All people end up in the grave "sheowl" when they die.


Interestingly the ancient Hebrews didn't believe in a life beyond the grave. That is one of the reason why the OT is so war-oriented - YHWH punished and rewarded his people here on earth during their lifetimes in practical ways, usually either by some natural disaster or conquering or being conquered by other peoples. It was too late to do anything after you're dead, as this psalmist reminds us, for example,

Psalm 115
It is not the dead who praise the Lord,
those who go down to the place of silence;
it is we who extol the Lord,
both now and forevermore.
('we' refers to the people of Israel).

Isaiah also gently prods god to act before it is too late (38:18)
For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.

It was only when the Jews gave up on any possible improvement in their earthly lives that they adopted the idea of posthumous rewards and punishments. That change seems ti have happened in inter-testamentary times, which is one of the main reasons the OT and NT are so different from each other in tone.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/26/2015 12:28:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:03:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:39:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.

Sure it does. It makes all the difference in the world. Read the dictionary:

Only in the English language Anna, and only to nit pickers who have not studied the Hebrew word "elohiym" and obviously have no understanding of it.

You're writing in English - not Hebrew.

1. capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a. the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

It would indeed be strange if Merriam-Webster has it all wrong - yet a crackpot gets it right.

Are you aware the Hebrew symbols do not use upper and lower case? God and gods are exactly the same word ("elohiym") in Hebrew. The word is the plural of "'elowahh" for a start and does not refer to any individual entity but to a group or a corporate body.
The God ( "elohiym") referred to in Genesis 1:1 is the same ( "elohiym") translated as "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and Isaiah 41:23.
The same word ( "elohiym") has been translated as judges referring to human judges in Exodus 21:6 and Exodus 22:8-9

Pay attention and notice the word "elohiym" in the bible stories, often refers to ordinary people.

Use words as they are defined in the dictionary, Sky. You aren't writing in Hebrew.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/26/2015 12:29:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:06:22 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:41:21 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.
I believe God and gods exist in reality and are perfectly visible and observable. I am not an atheist. I merely define God and gods as something different to invisible supernatural characters who cannot be observed.

Defining words is not your cup of tea. In fact, that's the job of experts. Do you accept the dictionary definition of "God" with a capital "G". Of course not.

When a story has been translated into English from a different language, you would be wise to study and understand the meaning of the words, metaphors, idioms, etc, in the original language. Anna.

Much meaning can get lost in translation. If you knew any other language than English you would understand that.

I asked, "Do you accept the dictionary definition of 'God' with a capital 'G'?"
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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11/26/2015 12:36:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:28:02 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:03:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:39:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.

Sure it does. It makes all the difference in the world. Read the dictionary:

Only in the English language Anna, and only to nit pickers who have not studied the Hebrew word "elohiym" and obviously have no understanding of it.

You're writing in English - not Hebrew.

1. capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a. the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

It would indeed be strange if Merriam-Webster has it all wrong - yet a crackpot gets it right.

Are you aware the Hebrew symbols do not use upper and lower case? God and gods are exactly the same word ("elohiym") in Hebrew. The word is the plural of "'elowahh" for a start and does not refer to any individual entity but to a group or a corporate body.
The God ( "elohiym") referred to in Genesis 1:1 is the same ( "elohiym") translated as "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and Isaiah 41:23.
The same word ( "elohiym") has been translated as judges referring to human judges in Exodus 21:6 and Exodus 22:8-9

Pay attention and notice the word "elohiym" in the bible stories, often refers to ordinary people.

Use words as they are defined in the dictionary, Sky. You aren't writing in Hebrew.

The original story is a Jewish story Anna. Do you worship the Hebrew eloyhim ( plural entities which are perfectly visible and observable ) or some English version of a God ( singular invisible impalpable entity ) which you created in your imagination?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/26/2015 1:52:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:36:22 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:28:02 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:03:13 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:39:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 11:26:17 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:33:48 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:30:51 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/25/2015 5:06:22 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/25/2015 12:16:30 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:56:52 PM, tstor wrote:
At 11/24/2015 11:52:54 PM, Skyangel wrote:

The JW's still worship an invisible supernatural god.

People who worship invisible supernatural gods are not enlightened at all. They are still living in the dark ages of superstitious nonsense. They might as well be worshiping Zeus.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You are an atheist who is living in 2015 and you are "enlightened." Believe me, I have heard it.

I do not label myself as an atheist.

You don't have to. Everybody else on here, including professed atheists, knows full well that that's what you are. And the only person in the world (to your knowledge) who remotely agrees with you is your beleaguered husband.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about Anna.
Sweeping statements like "Everybody else on here" is incorrect for a start. You are lying to yourself.
If you followed any of my threads you would read that others have indicated that they agree with me on certain issues.
However, feel free to deceive yourself as much as you need to make yourself happy and remain as blind as you want to be to anything you don't want to believe or understand.

Obviously you choose to see and believe only what you want to see and believe.

Pay attention Anna and maybe you won't make such a fool of yourself in future.

Really? Name someone on here who classifies you as a theist, i. e. one who believes in God or Gods. Notice the capital G.

Accipiter called me a typical Christian... http://www.debate.org...

A capital G or lower case g makes no difference Anna.

Sure it does. It makes all the difference in the world. Read the dictionary:

Only in the English language Anna, and only to nit pickers who have not studied the Hebrew word "elohiym" and obviously have no understanding of it.

You're writing in English - not Hebrew.

1. capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a. the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

It would indeed be strange if Merriam-Webster has it all wrong - yet a crackpot gets it right.

Are you aware the Hebrew symbols do not use upper and lower case? God and gods are exactly the same word ("elohiym") in Hebrew. The word is the plural of "'elowahh" for a start and does not refer to any individual entity but to a group or a corporate body.
The God ( "elohiym") referred to in Genesis 1:1 is the same ( "elohiym") translated as "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and Isaiah 41:23.
The same word ( "elohiym") has been translated as judges referring to human judges in Exodus 21:6 and Exodus 22:8-9

Pay attention and notice the word "elohiym" in the bible stories, often refers to ordinary people.

Use words as they are defined in the dictionary, Sky. You aren't writing in Hebrew.

The original story is a Jewish story Anna. Do you worship the Hebrew eloyhim ( plural entities which are perfectly visible and observable ) or some English version of a God ( singular invisible impalpable entity ) which you created in your imagination?

For the third time, I asked, "Do you accept the dictionary definition of 'God' with a capital 'G'?"

All the query requires is a, "Yes, I do," or a "No, I don't do that."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."