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Religious opinions on Transgender people

miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/3/2015 3:05:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
biologically and reproductively female,
I need explanation for this. Do you possess a vagina, uterus, and ovaries?
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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12/3/2015 3:06:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 3:05:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
biologically and reproductively female,
I need explanation for this. Do you possess a vagina, uterus, and ovaries?

Yes I do, unfortunately enough.
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/3/2015 3:13:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 3:06:19 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 3:05:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
biologically and reproductively female,
I need explanation for this. Do you possess a vagina, uterus, and ovaries?

Yes I do, unfortunately enough.

If so why don't you identify as a girl?
Are you claiming to be a boy trapped in a girls body?
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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12/3/2015 3:15:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 3:13:02 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2015 3:06:19 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 3:05:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
I need explanation for this. Do you possess a vagina, uterus, and ovaries?

Yes I do, unfortunately enough.

If so why don't you identify as a girl?
Are you claiming to be a boy trapped in a girls body?

That's one way of putting it, yes. I don't identify as female because I feel uncomfortable about my body, my sex characteristics, my voice, my breasts, etc. I put in my best effort to appear as male, and I plan to get a double mastectomy later in life to attempt to make these efforts more fruitful. I also plan to go on testosterone and to change my name and gender legally.
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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12/3/2015 3:18:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

Only bigots would regard you as an abomination, sadly there are plenty of them around!
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/3/2015 3:20:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 3:15:53 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 3:13:02 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/3/2015 3:06:19 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 3:05:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
I need explanation for this. Do you possess a vagina, uterus, and ovaries?

Yes I do, unfortunately enough.

If so why don't you identify as a girl?
Are you claiming to be a boy trapped in a girls body?

That's one way of putting it, yes. I don't identify as female because I feel uncomfortable about my body, my sex characteristics, my voice, my breasts, etc. I put in my best effort to appear as male, and I plan to get a double mastectomy later in life to attempt to make these efforts more fruitful. I also plan to go on testosterone and to change my name and gender legally.

Now that you've cleared it up, go for your life.
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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12/3/2015 3:20:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 3:18:27 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

Only bigots would regard you as an abomination, sadly there are plenty of them around!

Yes, I know that quite well--I live in Georgia, there's no shortage around here. I'm really just wondering what people's arguments against me and my identity will be--It's purely curiosity. I like to understand others' points of view as well as I can, in order to perhaps explain my own ideas in terms that may be clearer.
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
Jerry947
Posts: 778
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12/3/2015 7:35:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes, I know that quite well--I live in Georgia, there's no shortage around here. I'm really just wondering what people's arguments against me and my identity will be--It's purely curiosity. I like to understand others' points of view as well as I can, in order to perhaps explain my own ideas in terms that may be clearer.

It sounds like you are a female but mentally you see yourself as a male. Is that correct? If so, Christians would have a problem with this. God created people either male and female and people just don't get to decide what sex they are. That said, if Christians are wrong about God's existence, then life is meaningless anyway and you should do whatever you want. And I mean whatever you want (things like murder included).
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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12/3/2015 7:39:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

In Biblical point of view, man and woman combination is ok and not abomination. In Biblical point of view, not ok is to destroy own body. In my opinion word abomination is not necessary here, even though on Bible basis what you are going to do your body can be seen as abomination, because it basically makes you not fully functional. What would you think, if your friend would cut of his arms, would it be disgusting (abomination) in your opinion?

Why it is bad, if someone calls something abomination?

However, in my opinion you can do whatever you want. I just don"t think whatever is a wise and good thing.

At 12/3/2015 3:20:47 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm really just wondering what people's arguments against me

I have nothing against you. If I would have, I would tell only things that you want to hear and not truth.
Maccabee
Posts: 1,247
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12/3/2015 7:47:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you have the plumbing of a girl then you're a girl, simple as that. God does not make mistakes if you're asking for a religious opinion. To say that I'm a boy in a girl's body is basically calling God a lier. As for your feelings, feelings lie. Ask any pilot if they trust their feelings or the gauges when they fly. But specifically speaking, what do you mean when you say you have boy tendencies if it doesn't evolve anything that can be considered X rated.
Scripture, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion, not science

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

"If guns are the cause of crimes then aren't matches the cause of arson?" D. Boys

"If the death penalty is government sanctioned killing then isn't inprisonment is government sanction kidnapping?" D. B

"Why do you trust the government with machine guns but not honest citizens?" D. B

All those who are pro-death (abortion) is already born
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/3/2015 8:10:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

I have a challenge for you. Quote one Bible verse where Jesus talked about transgender or homosexuality.
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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12/4/2015 8:19:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 7:35:02 PM, Jerry947 wrote:
Yes, I know that quite well--I live in Georgia, there's no shortage around here. I'm really just wondering what people's arguments against me and my identity will be--It's purely curiosity. I like to understand others' points of view as well as I can, in order to perhaps explain my own ideas in terms that may be clearer.

It sounds like you are a female but mentally you see yourself as a male. Is that correct? If so, Christians would have a problem with this. God created people either male and female and people just don't get to decide what sex they are. That said, if Christians are wrong about God's existence, then life is meaningless anyway and you should do whatever you want. And I mean whatever you want (things like murder included).

That was a little extreme. First of all, having a gender identity disorder is not equal to murdering, by far, even in a conservative perspective. Is you feeling like another gender equal to taking the life away from another person, ruining the rest of the life of victim's relatives and friends? Second, atheism =/= nihilism, with the exception of people like Nietzsche.
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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12/4/2015 8:21:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 7:47:49 PM, Maccabee wrote:
If you have the plumbing of a girl then you're a girl, simple as that. God does not make mistakes if you're asking for a religious opinion. To say that I'm a boy in a girl's body is basically calling God a lier. As for your feelings, feelings lie. Ask any pilot if they trust their feelings or the gauges when they fly. But specifically speaking, what do you mean when you say you have boy tendencies if it doesn't evolve anything that can be considered X rated.

Even when you are happy? Pilots are certain on what they are doing, even under stress.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/4/2015 8:28:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

ALL alleged supernatural Gods are 100% human devised!

I wouldn't worry about what they devised!
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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12/4/2015 3:01:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 8:10:23 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

I have a challenge for you. Quote one Bible verse where Jesus talked about transgender or homosexuality.

Where jesus talked about it, or any time when it was brought up in a negative light? I'll give you one of the latter: "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 22:5
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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12/4/2015 3:12:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 3:01:01 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 8:10:23 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

I have a challenge for you. Quote one Bible verse where Jesus talked about transgender or homosexuality.

Where jesus talked about it, or any time when it was brought up in a negative light? I'll give you one of the latter: "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 22:5

Your religion is not even worth your spit if it treats you how it does. Give it up sunshine their hell is a fantasy and cavemen created their heaven. Live your life, we all die.
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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12/4/2015 3:16:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 3:12:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2015 3:01:01 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 8:10:23 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

I have a challenge for you. Quote one Bible verse where Jesus talked about transgender or homosexuality.

Where jesus talked about it, or any time when it was brought up in a negative light? I'll give you one of the latter: "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 22:5

Your religion is not even worth your spit if it treats you how it does. Give it up sunshine their hell is a fantasy and cavemen created their heaven. Live your life, we all die.

Believe me, it isn't my religion. I just find it a bit funny how easy it is for an educated atheist such as myself to quote the bible--which they considered a "challenge". I personally dislike religion with a passion, but I'm fascinated by it, so I've studied it extensively.
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/4/2015 3:20:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 3:01:01 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 8:10:23 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

I have a challenge for you. Quote one Bible verse where Jesus talked about transgender or homosexuality.

Where jesus talked about it, or any time when it was brought up in a negative light? I'll give you one of the latter: "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 22:5

That is not something Jesus said. That is from the Old Testament which was written before he was born. The Pharisees tried to use the Old Testament against him and he rejected them with new information and new commands. Examples are them accusing him and his followers of eating with unclean hands. He denounced it by saying it is not what goes into the belly that makes a man unclean, but what comes out of the heart. And by the OT they were right, but he was not interested in their zealoutous, religious bigotry and/or stupidity/arrogance. They also denounced him hanging out with a prostitute and "unclean men", of which he responded it is not the clean who need a physician but the sick. They were right again based off of the OT. Jesus brought sanity to a zealoutous beliefthat had lost its way by obeying a bunch of "religious rules" and forgot the true matter, which was the heart. As I spoke before, Jesus never once spoke about homosexuality or transgender issues. He went another step by saying "judge not or you will be judged". You can see the trend. Don't let religious people ever make you feel that God cannot or will not love you. Jesus forgave the very people that were killing and torturing him. "Forgive them Father they know not what they do". Jesus is why real Christians who do love others have a bond and closeness with God. Christ forgave a prodtitute. The Pharisees tried to dtone her but he stopped them by saying "he who is without sin cast the first stone". They were amazed and shocked. He was beautiful. Man is not. He is the belief. Not a preacher. Not a hypocrite. Not a televangelist making millions. Not your neighbor. And not me. Trust him. Not us.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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12/4/2015 3:33:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 3:16:20 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/4/2015 3:12:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2015 3:01:01 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 8:10:23 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

I have a challenge for you. Quote one Bible verse where Jesus talked about transgender or homosexuality.

Where jesus talked about it, or any time when it was brought up in a negative light? I'll give you one of the latter: "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 22:5

Your religion is not even worth your spit if it treats you how it does. Give it up sunshine their hell is a fantasy and cavemen created their heaven. Live your life, we all die.

Believe me, it isn't my religion. I just find it a bit funny how easy it is for an educated atheist such as myself to quote the bible--which they considered a "challenge". I personally dislike religion with a passion, but I'm fascinated by it, so I've studied it extensively.

Good on ya kid. Don't let the cavemen ruin your life.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/4/2015 4:46:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 3:12:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/4/2015 3:01:01 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
At 12/3/2015 8:10:23 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:58:44 PM, miloisqueer wrote:
I'm back to the forums with another question for theists!

Here's a bit of backstory. I am a trans boy, biologically and reproductively female, but I present in a masculine way, go by a male name, and use male pronouns. I know that some passages in the bible sort of skirt the issue of gender, saying that overriding one's birth sex is abhorrent, etc., but I was curious whether any theists use this only as an excuse to act out their own disgust/confusion-based discrimination against trans people.

Furthermore, I am pansexual, meaning I can be attracted to people (Human beings, don't argue that it means bestiality or anything else ridiculous like that) of any gender identity. I am currently dating a trans girl who is also pansexual. I was wondering if theists would condemn this relationship, because, as I see it, we are in a straight relationship no matter if you look at it biologically or from the perspective of identity.

So, in short, my question is: Would you (a theist) consider myself and my girlfriend to be abominations?

I have a challenge for you. Quote one Bible verse where Jesus talked about transgender or homosexuality.

Where jesus talked about it, or any time when it was brought up in a negative light? I'll give you one of the latter: "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 22:5

Your religion is not even worth your spit if it treats you how it does. Give it up sunshine their hell is a fantasy and cavemen created their heaven. Live your life, we all die.

You posess a very defeated, negative, self toxic focus. Why would any of us want what you are offering? What is the gain if we trade you mindsets? Depression?