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How do you disprove Solipsism

Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,008
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12/7/2015 3:39:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...
The proof is your need to get a second opinion.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 3:42:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 3:39:57 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...
The proof is your need to get a second opinion.

Whatever opinion will be the moment in which i was suppose to hear or witness the opinion at that point of my existence.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,120
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12/7/2015 3:44:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

Who are you "sharing" this emotion with?

I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 4:00:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 3:44:56 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

Who are you "sharing" this emotion with?

In general whoever i feel the emotion or have built the emotion for. It could also be a one night thing. I share my love to that person for a moment. I share my love with family, one reason i would want to live this world, just to see them. I wouldn't say i share love for friends, i'm kinda cold like that... but, i have backed up friends in dangerous situations before... so, that could constitute love i guess. I do share this emotion with the world too. See, i have gotten in trouble from my transition from school life to the real world. I had never met people like i have met in the "work" part of life. I always thought the best of everyone and would sincerely be interested to knowing anyone (with no prejudice). This happens to be a detriment now and days sadly. I have gotten colder to the world bc of it, but i still enjoy getting to know people when i can to share this emotion. best answer i guess would be with anyone i can.


I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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12/7/2015 4:05:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...

I didn't read what you didn't write so how can I not help?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self. i would be formed from my thoughts of me. I guess in a sense i can be god. Yet, i wouldn't say anything is imaginary since it is physical. So how did i create me here from my thoughts into something physical? Then gave life to everything around me... isn't that what we debate on this forum?
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 4:10:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:05:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...

I didn't read what you didn't write so how can I not help?

You just do what you do... has nothing to do with what i do. Unless you say or do something interesting... then, that will become a part of my life... yeah, i plagiarize sometimes but i do put it in quotes when i do.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/7/2015 4:12:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self.

What is a 'me'? What is a 'physical self'? What is a physical not-self? What is physical? How can it be discerned from not-physical? What does it mean for self to own or produce not-self? Does self produce physical? Does self produce not physical? How could self determined not-produced not-physical?
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 4:23:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:12:28 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self.

What is a 'me'? What is a 'physical self'? What is a physical not-self? What is physical? How can it be discerned from not-physical? What does it mean for self to own or produce not-self? Does self produce physical? Does self produce not physical? How could self determined not-produced not-physical?

Right? I want to know these things too. Physical self would be the one you can shake hands with if we ever met. My non-physical self is my image within dreams (day/night). What is physical? I would assume matter is from what we know. I am guessing however; remember, i have made scientists to figure that out for me ;-) My interests are else where. But, since everything is clearly physical to my touch or observation (at my current health) and everything seems to move and do as it does, then my imagination isn't bond by me anymore... it is unbound, therefor, we can say free will. If i know my imagination can feel; why would i ever erase such a thing and be one again or control it. Every character came to life from a thought of an unbound character in my own imagination. I either let it be or erase it all.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/7/2015 4:27:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:23:17 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:12:28 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self.

What is a 'me'? What is a 'physical self'? What is a physical not-self? What is physical? How can it be discerned from not-physical? What does it mean for self to own or produce not-self? Does self produce physical? Does self produce not physical? How could self determined not-produced not-physical?

Right? I want to know these things too. Physical self would be the one you can shake hands with if we ever met.

How do you know whether a thing you can shake hands with is not yourself? Is possession simply a matter of nerve signals? If your hand is anaesthetised, does it cease to be yours? If it is badly injured and replaced with a prosthetic, is the prosthetic you or not-you? What of the amputated hand? Is it still you, or not you? If it were grafted onto the arm of another, how many of you are there?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,120
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12/7/2015 4:32:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:00:06 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 3:44:56 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

Who are you "sharing" this emotion with?

In general whoever i feel the emotion or have built the emotion for. It could also be a one night thing. I share my love to that person for a moment. I share my love with family, one reason i would want to live this world, just to see them. I wouldn't say i share love for friends, i'm kinda cold like that... but, i have backed up friends in dangerous situations before... so, that could constitute love i guess. I do share this emotion with the world too. See, i have gotten in trouble from my transition from school life to the real world. I had never met people like i have met in the "work" part of life. I always thought the best of everyone and would sincerely be interested to knowing anyone (with no prejudice). This happens to be a detriment now and days sadly. I have gotten colder to the world bc of it, but i still enjoy getting to know people when i can to share this emotion. best answer i guess would be with anyone i can.

I'm not sure you understand my (your *haha*) objection. If your being is all there is - how can you "share" anything?


I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 4:42:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:27:10 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:23:17 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:12:28 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self.

What is a 'me'? What is a 'physical self'? What is a physical not-self? What is physical? How can it be discerned from not-physical? What does it mean for self to own or produce not-self? Does self produce physical? Does self produce not physical? How could self determined not-produced not-physical?

Right? I want to know these things too. Physical self would be the one you can shake hands with if we ever met.

How do you know whether a thing you can shake hands with is not yourself? Is possession simply a matter of nerve signals? If your hand is anaesthetised, does it cease to be yours? If it is badly injured and replaced with a prosthetic, is the prosthetic you or not-you? What of the amputated hand? Is it still you, or not you? If it were grafted onto the arm of another, how many of you are there?

Absolutely. That is why i later added the (at my current health) thing. I do not know if it is myself bc in this reality i don't. Is it myself? Is my family all me... as sad as that sounds, it can be. Hence, why would i want to know? If i knew everything was me... that would suck. If i had the ability to live within my imagination; i would do so. However, if everything was the same... that would suck too, so everything is what it is.
I would assume the only reason a Solipsist would exist in their own mind is to escape some sort of isolation, or maybe being the only one. If i was a massless immortal and only one; i would rather live in my head than eternity as one. So, it doesn't matter in regards to your questions if one is me or not or if i think i am not me... as long as i am me in the end. This goes into the self... I identify as myself separate from the others in any given scenario.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 4:49:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:32:46 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:00:06 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 3:44:56 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

Who are you "sharing" this emotion with?

In general whoever i feel the emotion or have built the emotion for. It could also be a one night thing. I share my love to that person for a moment. I share my love with family, one reason i would want to live this world, just to see them. I wouldn't say i share love for friends, i'm kinda cold like that... but, i have backed up friends in dangerous situations before... so, that could constitute love i guess. I do share this emotion with the world too. See, i have gotten in trouble from my transition from school life to the real world. I had never met people like i have met in the "work" part of life. I always thought the best of everyone and would sincerely be interested to knowing anyone (with no prejudice). This happens to be a detriment now and days sadly. I have gotten colder to the world bc of it, but i still enjoy getting to know people when i can to share this emotion. best answer i guess would be with anyone i can.

I'm not sure you understand my (your *haha*) objection. If your being is all there is - how can you "share" anything?

You get it wrong. It is still your objection; not mine. You just happen to be born from my imagination, not bound by it. Ultimately, why would i want everything to be in my control? Really, that might be fun for awhile, but it would get tired real fast. Who likes a mirror image? It would be much more interesting to give... well, free will to the characters that i imagine. Let them be what they are. Maybe the setting is made by me and characters... but, what the characters do is up to them... Just bc everything is in my imagination doesn't mean it has to be in my control. Of course, the existence of each character is within my control... but, then, if i erased all, i would be just one... that doesn't sound fun.

How can i share anything... well, i think i am sharing something and happen to feel it. That is all that matters, not that it is a part of my imagination.



I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/7/2015 4:54:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:42:30 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:27:10 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:23:17 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:12:28 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self.

What is a 'me'? What is a 'physical self'? What is a physical not-self? What is physical? How can it be discerned from not-physical? What does it mean for self to own or produce not-self? Does self produce physical? Does self produce not physical? How could self determined not-produced not-physical?

Right? I want to know these things too. Physical self would be the one you can shake hands with if we ever met.

How do you know whether a thing you can shake hands with is not yourself? Is possession simply a matter of nerve signals? If your hand is anaesthetised, does it cease to be yours? If it is badly injured and replaced with a prosthetic, is the prosthetic you or not-you? What of the amputated hand? Is it still you, or not you? If it were grafted onto the arm of another, how many of you are there?

Absolutely. That is why i later added the (at my current health) thing. I do not know if it is myself bc in this reality i don't.

I suspect that 'actionable' solipsism (i.e. solipsism whose veracity would change how you acted), collapses ontology (the identification and categories of things), to the point where ontology itself no longer supports effective decisions (e.g. if an amputated hand is still part of you, why not amputate it?)

Meanwhile, 'unactionable' solipsism (the kind where you treat everything as a dream, say), is indistinguishable from a range of other degenerate ontologies (e.g. how can one be sure it's your dream?)

Whether the particular solipsism you embrace is actionable or unactionable may depend on how one defines self and consequence.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 5:08:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:54:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:42:30 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:27:10 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:23:17 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:12:28 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self.

What is a 'me'? What is a 'physical self'? What is a physical not-self? What is physical? How can it be discerned from not-physical? What does it mean for self to own or produce not-self? Does self produce physical? Does self produce not physical? How could self determined not-produced not-physical?

Right? I want to know these things too. Physical self would be the one you can shake hands with if we ever met.

How do you know whether a thing you can shake hands with is not yourself? Is possession simply a matter of nerve signals? If your hand is anaesthetised, does it cease to be yours? If it is badly injured and replaced with a prosthetic, is the prosthetic you or not-you? What of the amputated hand? Is it still you, or not you? If it were grafted onto the arm of another, how many of you are there?

Absolutely. That is why i later added the (at my current health) thing. I do not know if it is myself bc in this reality i don't.

I suspect that 'actionable' solipsism (i.e. solipsism whose veracity would change how you acted), collapses ontology (the identification and categories of things), to the point where ontology itself no longer supports effective decisions (e.g. if an amputated hand is still part of you, why not amputate it?)

Meanwhile, 'unactionable' solipsism (the kind where you treat everything as a dream, say), is indistinguishable from a range of other degenerate ontologies (e.g. how can one be sure it's your dream?)

Whether the particular solipsism you embrace is actionable or unactionable may depend on how one defines self and consequence.

The way i am describing it is maybe a mixture of both. I don't understand "un-actionable" solipsism quite yet. I get what you mean by actionable, i think it would be most like that; however, the characters within the dream can also dream sorta thing. It's sorta a god analogy. That if everything is a part of my imagination maybe there is a reason. The ultimate end of Solipsism is that the entity is alone, just one. Why would it ever go back to one if it can be many, if it can be helped. Then it would makes sense to separate all characters. Let the characters be in their own control. The only thing i would have control of is either letting the realities be or not be... but, in any sense i would let realities be instead of being just one.
difference
Posts: 177
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12/7/2015 5:33:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 5:08:13 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:54:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:42:30 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:27:10 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:23:17 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:12:28 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self.

What is a 'me'? What is a 'physical self'? What is a physical not-self? What is physical? How can it be discerned from not-physical? What does it mean for self to own or produce not-self? Does self produce physical? Does self produce not physical? How could self determined not-produced not-physical?

Right? I want to know these things too. Physical self would be the one you can shake hands with if we ever met.

How do you know whether a thing you can shake hands with is not yourself? Is possession simply a matter of nerve signals? If your hand is anaesthetised, does it cease to be yours? If it is badly injured and replaced with a prosthetic, is the prosthetic you or not-you? What of the amputated hand? Is it still you, or not you? If it were grafted onto the arm of another, how many of you are there?

Absolutely. That is why i later added the (at my current health) thing. I do not know if it is myself bc in this reality i don't.

I suspect that 'actionable' solipsism (i.e. solipsism whose veracity would change how you acted), collapses ontology (the identification and categories of things), to the point where ontology itself no longer supports effective decisions (e.g. if an amputated hand is still part of you, why not amputate it?)

Meanwhile, 'unactionable' solipsism (the kind where you treat everything as a dream, say), is indistinguishable from a range of other degenerate ontologies (e.g. how can one be sure it's your dream?)

Whether the particular solipsism you embrace is actionable or unactionable may depend on how one defines self and consequence.

The way i am describing it is maybe a mixture of both. I don't understand "un-actionable" solipsism quite yet. I get what you mean by actionable, i think it would be most like that; however, the characters within the dream can also dream sorta thing. It's sorta a god analogy. That if everything is a part of my imagination maybe there is a reason. The ultimate end of Solipsism is that the entity is alone, just one. Why would it ever go back to one if it can be many, if it can be helped. Then it would makes sense to separate all characters. Let the characters be in their own control. The only thing i would have control of is either letting the realities be or not be... but, in any sense i would let realities be instead of being just one.

You could let the realities be just one if you wanted to?
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/7/2015 10:33:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 5:33:43 AM, difference wrote:
At 12/7/2015 5:08:13 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:54:45 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:42:30 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:27:10 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:23:17 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:12:28 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:08:35 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:02:18 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Who is asking?

Could you define 'I', 'me', 'my' so that we imaginary creatures can answer your question in detail please.

Hmm, I would me and my physical self.

What is a 'me'? What is a 'physical self'? What is a physical not-self? What is physical? How can it be discerned from not-physical? What does it mean for self to own or produce not-self? Does self produce physical? Does self produce not physical? How could self determined not-produced not-physical?

Right? I want to know these things too. Physical self would be the one you can shake hands with if we ever met.

How do you know whether a thing you can shake hands with is not yourself? Is possession simply a matter of nerve signals? If your hand is anaesthetised, does it cease to be yours? If it is badly injured and replaced with a prosthetic, is the prosthetic you or not-you? What of the amputated hand? Is it still you, or not you? If it were grafted onto the arm of another, how many of you are there?

Absolutely. That is why i later added the (at my current health) thing. I do not know if it is myself bc in this reality i don't.

I suspect that 'actionable' solipsism (i.e. solipsism whose veracity would change how you acted), collapses ontology (the identification and categories of things), to the point where ontology itself no longer supports effective decisions (e.g. if an amputated hand is still part of you, why not amputate it?)

Meanwhile, 'unactionable' solipsism (the kind where you treat everything as a dream, say), is indistinguishable from a range of other degenerate ontologies (e.g. how can one be sure it's your dream?)

Whether the particular solipsism you embrace is actionable or unactionable may depend on how one defines self and consequence.

The way i am describing it is maybe a mixture of both. I don't understand "un-actionable" solipsism quite yet. I get what you mean by actionable, i think it would be most like that; however, the characters within the dream can also dream sorta thing. It's sorta a god analogy. That if everything is a part of my imagination maybe there is a reason. The ultimate end of Solipsism is that the entity is alone, just one. Why would it ever go back to one if it can be many, if it can be helped. Then it would makes sense to separate all characters. Let the characters be in their own control. The only thing i would have control of is either letting the realities be or not be... but, in any sense i would let realities be instead of being just one.

You could let the realities be just one if you wanted to?

Well...this is hard to answer bc what is just "one" really? One thing is that this "one source" would know everything of this universe...everything. Where does this source end up? Is it just darkness with a conscious until the source decides to imagine a new reality? Hence the part where it is one would be unpleasant for an extend period of time. How could you know all, but not live it...
ButterCatX
Posts: 2,228
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12/7/2015 10:54:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Cogito ergo sum
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

Butters preformed his duty to the town and died with honor, he helped us kill scum, so we know have to go and make sure his death wasn't in vain and win this game for him.-lannan13

All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

You are so obviously town I love you man.-VOT
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/8/2015 12:10:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 10:54:02 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
Cogito ergo sum

My wiki journey bc i didn't know what that means: Cogito ergo sum, Rene descartes, Solipsism, Epistemology, Infallibilism :-) Thanks for starting me on a reading marathon.
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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12/8/2015 12:49:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Why would any of us want to?

We are all "figments" of each other's imaginations. We are even figments of OUR OWN imaginations. But how does understanding this change anything for us?
janesix
Posts: 3,465
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12/8/2015 12:57:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...

Sorry, i am the only one who exists. You are mistaken.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/8/2015 1:12:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2015 12:49:37 AM, PureX wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Why would any of us want to?

That is sorta what i am trying to say. Why would i want to know? Why would a god want to know it is a god? What benefit is there to know you created everything. There is more benefit in just living. If i really was the one that thought this whole realty up that would be huge for me. Does everyone really feel? Am i killing everyone by not letting it continue? How about the ones that hate the reality? Do i have to keep living every generation to keep the reality alive? ... It would suck to have this sort of responsibility. I imagine and immortal is a similar entity. Why be immortal and just you and your thoughts when you could forget you are immortal and just live.

We are all "figments" of each other's imaginations.

This is interesting. I have thought of this angle as well. Maybe why there are wars, rapes, and darker actions. Just as much as we love each other, we secretly hate each other. Mostly done mentally.

We are even figments of OUR OWN imaginations. But how does understanding this change anything for us?

It doesn't. That is why i think science is going to go as far as unlocking everything this reality has to offer (within a timetable), but never to the point of knowing the next step (if). That would defeat the purpose of living. Ask a schizophrenic; it is not fun to believe you are many.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,271
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12/8/2015 1:15:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2015 12:57:08 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

I made up all religion so i can live the experience i intended without knowing any absolutes. At the same time, a hint to my immortality.

I created war so i can play video games that are war themed.

I created horror so i can watch horror movies and have interesting Halloween experiences.

I made up medieval times, pirate, etc experiences to fuel my love for fantasy

I made up love so i can share a powerful emotion...

I made up you so i would have someone to talk to, hang out with, experience with...

So on...

Sorry, i am the only one who exists. You are mistaken.

Well, you know you are not the only one existing. You see people around you everyday. Unless of course you are locked away somewhere and are the magic computer that is running this simulation. But then; i'd like to ask you: Do you really want to take my crown? Do you want to have the responsibility of creating this world? I have already called myself *cked up for even considering it.
ButterCatX
Posts: 2,228
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12/8/2015 1:58:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/8/2015 12:10:30 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/7/2015 10:54:02 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
Cogito ergo sum

My wiki journey bc i didn't know what that means: Cogito ergo sum, Rene descartes, Solipsism, Epistemology, Infallibilism :-) Thanks for starting me on a reading marathon.

I think therefore I am. Thus I have disproved solipsism in your case, but not mine.
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

Butters preformed his duty to the town and died with honor, he helped us kill scum, so we know have to go and make sure his death wasn't in vain and win this game for him.-lannan13

All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

You are so obviously town I love you man.-VOT
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/8/2015 3:02:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination?

Become a presuppositional apologist. Apparently they have it all figured out.
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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12/8/2015 4:44:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This post doesn't really relate to the title - you're merely showing that solipsism is logically possible, which doesn't really establish anything except a philosophical skepticism to the existence of a physical reality. The same would also entail skepticism towards solipsism.

Why is this in the Religion forum?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
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12/8/2015 4:45:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
In fact, not being able to disprove solipsism indicates that it's unfalsifiable, which shifts the burden of proof, via Russell's teapot, towards the person claiming solipsism is true.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/8/2015 6:02:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 10:52:08 PM, Outplayz wrote:
How can you convince me all of you aren't just a figment of my imagination? I mean, if i wake up to immortality the time i lived here would be equivalent to a dream.

In that case you don't need anyone you dreamed up to convince you of anything. You will convince yourself you were only dreaming when you wake up to yourself.

If you never wake up, maybe you will just stop dreaming and not realise you stopped dreaming since you won't have any self awareness anymore and no brain left to dream up anything.