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What was the first before everything?

Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?
bulproof
Posts: 25,298
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12/9/2015 2:35:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Popeye.
Pollux
Posts: 241
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12/9/2015 2:38:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Why go you suppose that answer without any evidence?
Toad-Uoff
Posts: 206
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12/9/2015 8:14:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 2:38:48 PM, Pollux wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Why go you suppose that answer without any evidence?

If you are kNot deaf, dumb, and blind, the evidence is apparent.

Ribbit :)
Toad-Uoff
Posts: 206
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12/9/2015 8:16:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 2:35:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Popeye.

Awesome answer! :D

Ribbit :)
janesix
Posts: 3,485
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12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,859
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12/9/2015 9:38:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

http://fanaru.com...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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janesix
Posts: 3,485
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12/9/2015 9:39:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The eternal life force has been called God, so you can call it that if you want. Life has always existed,and exists in everything. Nothing that exists is without it. When I fist experienced this, I thought of it as Kali, because that is the form it took. Although it is neither male nor female. Our universe is a living being. Matter is necessary for experiences as individuals (us, plants, animals, atoms) but not necessary for life, because life is all there is. Only when we take on the form of matter do we experience pain and suffering and evil. But that is part of being a separate individual.
Pollux
Posts: 241
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12/9/2015 9:39:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

We have evidence of the universe; none of God.

The universe is eternal. No creator required for an eternal universe.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2015 9:50:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The "Universal life force" is ENERGY which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. Ancient writers personified that energy as God, gods, devils, depending on whether humans judged the forces as good or evil.

The force is in all and all are in the force.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2015 10:08:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Before everything?
It is not very clever of you to exclude your "very clever being " from everything.
Anything that exists is part of everything.
Before "everything" would mean before your "very clever being"

There is no first or last in a paradox of infinite regress.

Maybe its time you included your "very clever being" into your own thought process and overcame your very foolish being first.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 10:25:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:39:46 PM, Pollux wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

We have evidence of the universe; none of God.

We have evidence of HOW the universe operates, we don't know WHY. This is called a non sequitur.

The universe is eternal. No creator required for an eternal universe.

The universe had a beginning, and science points to an end, not eternal.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 10:27:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:39:13 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The eternal life force has been called God, so you can call it that if you want. Life has always existed,and exists in everything. Nothing that exists is without it. When I fist experienced this, I thought of it as Kali, because that is the form it took. Although it is neither male nor female. Our universe is a living being. Matter is necessary for experiences as individuals (us, plants, animals, atoms) but not necessary for life, because life is all there is. Only when we take on the form of matter do we experience pain and suffering and evil. But that is part of being a separate individual.

Life has ALWAYS existed?? I'd like to see the support for this outside theistic beliefs...
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 10:28:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:50:52 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The "Universal life force" is ENERGY which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. Ancient writers personified that energy as God, gods, devils, depending on whether humans judged the forces as good or evil.

The force is in all and all are in the force.

None of that can create life and sustain it, that is moronic.
janesix
Posts: 3,485
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12/9/2015 10:32:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:27:15 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:39:13 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The eternal life force has been called God, so you can call it that if you want. Life has always existed,and exists in everything. Nothing that exists is without it. When I fist experienced this, I thought of it as Kali, because that is the form it took. Although it is neither male nor female. Our universe is a living being. Matter is necessary for experiences as individuals (us, plants, animals, atoms) but not necessary for life, because life is all there is. Only when we take on the form of matter do we experience pain and suffering and evil. But that is part of being a separate individual.

Life has ALWAYS existed?? I'd like to see the support for this outside theistic beliefs...

What do you think life came from?
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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12/9/2015 10:39:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

So why couldn't the same thing apply to the (atheist view of) universe? What if the universe has the same eternity logic? This is one view upon it from Big Bang theorists.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2015 10:40:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:28:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:50:52 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The "Universal life force" is ENERGY which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. Ancient writers personified that energy as God, gods, devils, depending on whether humans judged the forces as good or evil.

The force is in all and all are in the force.

None of that can create life and sustain it, that is moronic.

All of LIFE IS ENERGY which sustains itself.
Nothing moronic about it.
LIFE creates LIFE. You can watch the process daily.
It is evidence of itself and its innumerable CYCLES.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2015 10:43:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

Learn how energy works and what it represents. Energy which cannot be created or destroyed needs no creator.

At least energy is observable. Invisible supernatural gods are not.
Pollux
Posts: 241
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12/9/2015 10:44:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:25:21 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:39:46 PM, Pollux wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

We have evidence of the universe; none of God.

We have evidence of HOW the universe operates, we don't know WHY. This is called a non sequitur.

The universe is eternal. No creator required for an eternal universe.

The universe had a beginning, and science points to an end, not eternal.

Nope.

The universe expanded from a very hot dense point. Time expanded with the expansion of the universe. We have no idea if the universe will end or simply become so cold and "thin" that it's basically a timeless, thin singularity again.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 10:49:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:32:07 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:27:15 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:39:13 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The eternal life force has been called God, so you can call it that if you want. Life has always existed,and exists in everything. Nothing that exists is without it. When I fist experienced this, I thought of it as Kali, because that is the form it took. Although it is neither male nor female. Our universe is a living being. Matter is necessary for experiences as individuals (us, plants, animals, atoms) but not necessary for life, because life is all there is. Only when we take on the form of matter do we experience pain and suffering and evil. But that is part of being a separate individual.

Life has ALWAYS existed?? I'd like to see the support for this outside theistic beliefs...

What do you think life came from?

Not from energy or any material object/element obviously lol.

Why would you ask a Theist where life came from??
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 10:51:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:39:23 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

So why couldn't the same thing apply to the (atheist view of) universe? What if the universe has the same eternity logic? This is one view upon it from Big Bang theorists.

Because a universe can't create life and sustain it lol, it is the home for life it does not create life. It has no brains or mind.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 10:53:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:40:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:28:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:50:52 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The "Universal life force" is ENERGY which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. Ancient writers personified that energy as God, gods, devils, depending on whether humans judged the forces as good or evil.

The force is in all and all are in the force.

None of that can create life and sustain it, that is moronic.

All of LIFE IS ENERGY which sustains itself.
Nothing moronic about it.
LIFE creates LIFE. You can watch the process daily.
It is evidence of itself and its innumerable CYCLES.

No, energy does nothing and can do nothing, unless you give it a mind it is nothing but a mindless element, duh!!!!
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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12/9/2015 10:53:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:51:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:39:23 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

So why couldn't the same thing apply to the (atheist view of) universe? What if the universe has the same eternity logic? This is one view upon it from Big Bang theorists.

Because a universe can't create life and sustain it lol, it is the home for life it does not create life. It has no brains or mind.

I use creationist logic here: Maybe life has always existed? There is a theory of that life came to Earth through a comet containing some critical parts with it.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 10:55:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:44:08 PM, Pollux wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:25:21 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:39:46 PM, Pollux wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

We have evidence of the universe; none of God.

We have evidence of HOW the universe operates, we don't know WHY. This is called a non sequitur.

The universe is eternal. No creator required for an eternal universe.

The universe had a beginning, and science points to an end, not eternal.

Nope.

The universe expanded from a very hot dense point. Time expanded with the expansion of the universe. We have no idea if the universe will end or simply become so cold and "thin" that it's basically a timeless, thin singularity again.

Like I said, our universe had a beginning, and will end, it is not eternal in the since it created itself lol.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,322
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12/9/2015 10:56:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:53:25 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:51:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:39:23 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

So why couldn't the same thing apply to the (atheist view of) universe? What if the universe has the same eternity logic? This is one view upon it from Big Bang theorists.

Because a universe can't create life and sustain it lol, it is the home for life it does not create life. It has no brains or mind.

I use creationist logic here: Maybe life has always existed? There is a theory of that life came to Earth through a comet containing some critical parts with it.

Become a Theist and embrace logic, truth and reason. The universe can do nothing on it's own and sustain it, period.
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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12/9/2015 11:01:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:56:41 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:53:25 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:51:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:39:23 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:35:42 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 2:17:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

Who created him then?

Learn how eternity works and what an eternal God represents. God needs no "creator".

So why couldn't the same thing apply to the (atheist view of) universe? What if the universe has the same eternity logic? This is one view upon it from Big Bang theorists.

Because a universe can't create life and sustain it lol, it is the home for life it does not create life. It has no brains or mind.

I use creationist logic here: Maybe life has always existed? There is a theory of that life came to Earth through a comet containing some critical parts with it.

Become a Theist and embrace logic, truth and reason. The universe can do nothing on it's own and sustain it, period.

You're begging the question. This is no counterargument, rather a shield of pride to your opinion. It is as logical that the universe always existed as that a deity has always existed. I however can't see any proof of a deity. It would actually be a scarier world if there was a deity that created us.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/9/2015 11:03:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/9/2015 10:53:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:40:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2015 10:28:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:50:52 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:30:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 12/9/2015 9:14:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:02:42 AM, frbnsn wrote:
According to me: A very clever being.

There is no first. The universal life force has existed eternally.

There is no "universal "life" force" that has existed for eternity lol, care to elaborate some? the only description of that would be God, an eternal life force.

The "Universal life force" is ENERGY which cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. Ancient writers personified that energy as God, gods, devils, depending on whether humans judged the forces as good or evil.

The force is in all and all are in the force.

None of that can create life and sustain it, that is moronic.

All of LIFE IS ENERGY which sustains itself.
Nothing moronic about it.
LIFE creates LIFE. You can watch the process daily.
It is evidence of itself and its innumerable CYCLES.

No, energy does nothing and can do nothing, unless you give it a mind it is nothing but a mindless element, duh!!!!

Wind is a form of energy. It can do plenty of things like blow you right off your feet if you are stupid enough to be out in a storm.
Are you a manifestation of energy in the form of mass or not? Are you a mindless element?

Did anyone give you a mind or did the process of reproduction give you a body which includes a mind the same as your parents had?
Have you ever tried using that mind without energy?
Can you do anything at all without energy?

If energy does nothing why do you need it to do anything?