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How does God Communicate?

EtrnlVw
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12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.

Firstly, why does God communicate this way? two reasons 1. the nature of God Himself (being Spirit) and 2. because the natural carnal mind is in enmity against God, read below...
Romans 8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Galatians 5
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Ephesians 1
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;

And here are some passages concerning communicating by spirit...

Ezekiel 1
1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Ezekiel 11
11 Moreover the spirit lifted me up, and brought me unto the east gate of the Lord's house, which looketh eastward: and behold at the door of the gate five and twenty men; among whom I saw Jaazaniah the son of Azur, and Pelatiah the son of Benaiah, princes of the people.

2 Then said he unto me,

Ezekiel 37
37 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

Revelations 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Revelations 4
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Daniel 10
7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.

8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

Genesis 15
1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great."

Daniel 2
19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.

Daniel 2
28 "However, there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will take place in the latter days This was your dream and the visions in your mind while on your bed.

Acts 18
And the Lord said to Paul in the night by a vision, "Do not be afraid any longer, but go on speaking and do not be silent;

Acts 9
10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying,

Isaiah 1
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

Joel 2
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

There are more where that came from but I think that should get the point across. The reason I posted this is because of the inquiries I've noticed about why God won't reveal Himself, when in fact that is untrue, but God is not going to physically manifest right in front of people and for good reason, none of us could ever withstand the presence of God like that in these bodies, we would certainly die (not to mention scare the crap out of someone) therefor our relations is through the spiritual.
The spiritual is also based upon principle (rather than emotion or a product of the mind), this ensures there are no short cuts or fakers and the faithful will be the ones to receive.
So anyway if you are interested in how God speaks to people or reveals things this should give you some idea.
janesix
Posts: 3,485
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12/10/2015 10:14:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.

Firstly, why does God communicate this way? two reasons 1. the nature of God Himself (being Spirit) and 2. because the natural carnal mind is in enmity against God, read below...
Romans 8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Galatians 5
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Ephesians 1
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;


And here are some passages concerning communicating by spirit...

Ezekiel 1
1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Ezekiel 11
11 Moreover the spirit lifted me up, and brought me unto the east gate of the Lord's house, which looketh eastward: and behold at the door of the gate five and twenty men; among whom I saw Jaazaniah the son of Azur, and Pelatiah the son of Benaiah, princes of the people.

2 Then said he unto me,

Ezekiel 37
37 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

Revelations 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Revelations 4
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Daniel 10
7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.

8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

Genesis 15
1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great."

Daniel 2
19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.

Daniel 2
28 "However, there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will take place in the latter days This was your dream and the visions in your mind while on your bed.

Acts 18
And the Lord said to Paul in the night by a vision, "Do not be afraid any longer, but go on speaking and do not be silent;

Acts 9
10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying,

Isaiah 1
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.




Joel 2
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:




There are more where that came from but I think that should get the point across. The reason I posted this is because of the inquiries I've noticed about why God won't reveal Himself, when in fact that is untrue, but God is not going to physically manifest right in front of people and for good reason, none of us could ever withstand the presence of God like that in these bodies, we would certainly die (not to mention scare the crap out of someone) therefor our relations is through the spiritual.
The spiritual is also based upon principle (rather than emotion or a product of the mind), this ensures there are no short cuts or fakers and the faithful will be the ones to receive.
So anyway if you are interested in how God speaks to people or reveals things this should give you some idea.

God is the life force of the universe,and communicates through synchronicities,and through the personification of archetypes.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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12/10/2015 10:15:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
The spiritual is also based upon principle (rather than emotion or a product of the mind), this ensures there are no short cuts or fakers and the faithful will be the ones to receive.

Well said, very well said, your statement reminds me of this:

Isa:5:16: But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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12/10/2015 10:38:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.

Firstly, why does God communicate this way? two reasons 1. the nature of God Himself (being Spirit) and 2. because the natural carnal mind is in enmity against God, read below...
Romans 8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Galatians 5
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Ephesians 1
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;


And here are some passages concerning communicating by spirit...

Ezekiel 1
1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Ezekiel 11
11 Moreover the spirit lifted me up, and brought me unto the east gate of the Lord's house, which looketh eastward: and behold at the door of the gate five and twenty men; among whom I saw Jaazaniah the son of Azur, and Pelatiah the son of Benaiah, princes of the people.

2 Then said he unto me,

Ezekiel 37
37 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

Revelations 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Revelations 4
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Daniel 10
7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.

8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

Genesis 15
1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great."

Daniel 2
19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.

Daniel 2
28 "However, there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will take place in the latter days This was your dream and the visions in your mind while on your bed.

Acts 18
And the Lord said to Paul in the night by a vision, "Do not be afraid any longer, but go on speaking and do not be silent;

Acts 9
10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying,

Isaiah 1
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.




Joel 2
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:




There are more where that came from but I think that should get the point across. The reason I posted this is because of the inquiries I've noticed about why God won't reveal Himself, when in fact that is untrue, but God is not going to physically manifest right in front of people and for good reason, none of us could ever withstand the presence of God like that in these bodies, we would certainly die (not to mention scare the crap out of someone) therefor our relations is through the spiritual.
The spiritual is also based upon principle (rather than emotion or a product of the mind), this ensures there are no short cuts or fakers and the faithful will be the ones to receive.
So anyway if you are interested in how God speaks to people or reveals things this should give you some idea.

People that think god communicates with them are the same class of people who think they were abducted by aliens or believe in Bigfoot.
Pollux
Posts: 241
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12/10/2015 11:40:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The problem is that said communication cannot be verified. People who claim such communication can offer no greater proof than the ones claiming to communicate with the spirit of Elvis. One wonders why God won't provide his believers with more proof than people locked up in asylums for claiming to communicate with the ghost of queen Elizabeth.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/10/2015 11:48:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.

Yeah God speaks to me...............we get that one alot.

So lets look at the two options here.........

1) A divine intelligence communicates with you

2) You are self deceived

Let me guess, "God" just so happens to tell you stuff you don't already know or isn't testable.

For example that God that speaks to you isn't going to say tell you when an earth quake will happen or how to cure cancer BUT what you will get is vague notions of "spiritual truths" which in the end help no one, except yourself as you can tell yourself you have some kind of special knowledge.

In the real world people won't even take the time to explain this to you, as soon as you even try the "God speaks to me" line they know the deal they will just be polite and smile and walk away.

So hold yourself accountable, if I am going to make such an extraordinary claim what do I have to show for it ? What can I do that some other deluded "God speaks to me" idiot can't ?

And if the answer is well nothing, on behalf of humanity could you stop claiming or implying such things.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.
More relevant than scripture, EV, might be psychology. Here are some psychological questions I believe any theologian ought to ask before making claims about gods talking to anyone:

1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.
More relevant than scripture, EV, might be psychology. Here are some psychological questions I believe any theologian ought to ask before making claims about gods talking to anyone:

1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer. God deals with and reveals to his children through the spirit. If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically. If you continually approached God and asked him to speak tou and nothing happened, then you could make a more rational assertion of the topic at hand. If you don't try it, it is illogical to say it doesn't work. Just sayin.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/11/2015 12:34:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer.
Actually, I want an accountable answer that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error.

Do you have one?

If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically.

Yet if you have, you cannot guarantee the consistency, accuracy, authenticity, coherence or integrity of whatever you believe you 'hear' back -- because history shows that quite bright, ordinary people convinced that God was talking to them have been utterly wrong in what they have been told -- so wrong that they've had to reinterpret it and reinterpret it and still not get it right.

Which returns me to my question above: do you have an accountable discussion about revelations from God that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error?

Or if you don't, do you feel that the best way to acknowledge that is to be patronising and evasive?
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 1:01:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2015 12:34:08 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer.
Actually, I want an accountable answer that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error.

Do you have one?

If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically.

Yet if you have, you cannot guarantee the consistency, accuracy, authenticity, coherence or integrity of whatever you believe you 'hear' back -- because history shows that quite bright, ordinary people convinced that God was talking to them have been utterly wrong in what they have been told -- so wrong that they've had to reinterpret it and reinterpret it and still not get it right.

Which returns me to my question above: do you have an accountable discussion about revelations from God that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error?

Or if you don't, do you feel that the best way to acknowledge that is to be patronising and evasive?

He speaks to me and answers my prayers for me. I receive winks constantly, but they are for me and between us. Not only have my experiences indicated this with vigor, but the Bible supports the idea. If someone doesn't have an open heart they are not intended to hear his voice or ever see anything. You have to open your heart and reach back towards him. If not, there will never be an answer and you will continue to challenge with no satisfaction.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/11/2015 1:21:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2015 1:01:35 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:34:08 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer.
Actually, I want an accountable answer that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error.

Do you have one?

If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically.

Yet if you have, you cannot guarantee the consistency, accuracy, authenticity, coherence or integrity of whatever you believe you 'hear' back -- because history shows that quite bright, ordinary people convinced that God was talking to them have been utterly wrong in what they have been told -- so wrong that they've had to reinterpret it and reinterpret it and still not get it right.

Which returns me to my question above: do you have an accountable discussion about revelations from God that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error?

Or if you don't, do you feel that the best way to acknowledge that is to be patronising and evasive?

He speaks to me and answers my prayers for me.
Is that an objective answer?

By that I mean, is it accountable for any bias, error or delusion you might suffer?

If so, please explain how it is accountable.

Secondly, please indicate how would you know if this experience originated in your own mind.

If it did, would you want to know? Would you feel you owed it to others to find out before you attested to truths that are in fact misleading falsehoods?

If someone doesn't have an open heart they are not intended to hear his voice or ever see anything.
Who are you to say what can and cannot happen to others, Gritty? Is this just a form of deceitful self-justification that lets you evade accountability for conflicting evidence in others?

That being so, why do you feel you need to evade accountability? If this were an objective truth and not a self-serving self-deception, why would you need to invent rules to plead special reasons that others don't have the same experiences as you?
Pollux
Posts: 241
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12/11/2015 1:22:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2015 1:01:35 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:34:08 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer.
Actually, I want an accountable answer that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error.

Do you have one?

If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically.

Yet if you have, you cannot guarantee the consistency, accuracy, authenticity, coherence or integrity of whatever you believe you 'hear' back -- because history shows that quite bright, ordinary people convinced that God was talking to them have been utterly wrong in what they have been told -- so wrong that they've had to reinterpret it and reinterpret it and still not get it right.

Which returns me to my question above: do you have an accountable discussion about revelations from God that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error?

Or if you don't, do you feel that the best way to acknowledge that is to be patronising and evasive?

He speaks to me and answers my prayers for me. I receive winks constantly, but they are for me and between us. Not only have my experiences indicated this with vigor, but the Bible supports the idea. If someone doesn't have an open heart they are not intended to hear his voice or ever see anything. You have to open your heart and reach back towards him. If not, there will never be an answer and you will continue to challenge with no satisfaction.

What determines whether or not one has an "open heart?" Or do all people claiming to hear from God also claim to posses an open heart with the same method of demonstrating both claims?
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/11/2015 1:53:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2015 1:01:35 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:34:08 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer.
Actually, I want an accountable answer that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error.

Do you have one?

If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically.

Yet if you have, you cannot guarantee the consistency, accuracy, authenticity, coherence or integrity of whatever you believe you 'hear' back -- because history shows that quite bright, ordinary people convinced that God was talking to them have been utterly wrong in what they have been told -- so wrong that they've had to reinterpret it and reinterpret it and still not get it right.

Which returns me to my question above: do you have an accountable discussion about revelations from God that doesn't presume your intuitions and appeals to authority are accurate and free from ignorance or error?

Or if you don't, do you feel that the best way to acknowledge that is to be patronising and evasive?

He speaks to me and answers my prayers for me. I receive winks constantly, but they are for me and between us. Not only have my experiences indicated this with vigor, but the Bible supports the idea. If someone doesn't have an open heart they are not intended to hear his voice or ever see anything. You have to open your heart and reach back towards him. If not, there will never be an answer and you will continue to challenge with no satisfaction.

The thing with answered prayer is that it works for everything and every God. All you have to do is count the hits as answers and ignore/discount the misses.

There is no one, no where which, can demonstrate that praying to THEIR God works better than praying to another God. Not Zeus, Not Allah, Not Jesus, not the flying spaghetti monster.

And this is the self deception that pisses me off, people don't want to hear this, they don't want to THINK, they just want to believe what ever they want to believe, they don't want to believe where reason takes them.

SO yeah Gritty, God does answer your prayers, really, never mind the every amputee, every child born blind got jack, God for some reason decided to single you out for special attention and for good measure throws you a few winks.

So here is something for you to consider, maybe just f*cking maybe you are in error, God didn't single you out for special attention, but rather some events happend and you wrongly attributed as an act of divine intervention caused by a prior prayer.

But just in case God does actually answer your prayer and your not just another deluded religious f*ck, ask that God of yours to cure I dunno every child born blind, and please update me on the result.

https://www.youtube.com...
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Toad-Uoff
Posts: 206
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12/11/2015 2:22:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Answer: Via Lawyers. :D

As sum People are about to find out. :D

I just got through submitting an Official Report to the FTC concerning how God Communicates. I will post that message as soon as the Legal Proceedings are over with and I can then publicly discuss the matter. ;)

Ribbit :)
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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12/11/2015 5:21:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.
More relevant than scripture, EV, might be psychology. Here are some psychological questions I believe any theologian ought to ask before making claims about gods talking to anyone:

1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer. God deals with and reveals to his children through the spirit. If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically. If you continually approached God and asked him to speak tou and nothing happened, then you could make a more rational assertion of the topic at hand. If you don't try it, it is illogical to say it doesn't work. Just sayin.
Tell that to Mother Teresa.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/11/2015 8:39:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/11/2015 1:53:28 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
SO yeah Gritty, God does answer your prayers, really, never mind the every amputee, every child born blind got jack, God for some reason decided to single you out for special attention and for good measure throws you a few winks.

And on that note, here's fellow Australian Tim Minchin recanting his atheism and offering a song of praise for answered prayers.

https://www.youtube.com...
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 1:06:47 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:21:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.
More relevant than scripture, EV, might be psychology. Here are some psychological questions I believe any theologian ought to ask before making claims about gods talking to anyone:

1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer. God deals with and reveals to his children through the spirit. If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically. If you continually approached God and asked him to speak tou and nothing happened, then you could make a more rational assertion of the topic at hand. If you don't try it, it is illogical to say it doesn't work. Just sayin.
Tell that to Mother Teresa.

Kind of hard. She's dead.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 1:08:57 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:21:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:27:19 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 12:08:34 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/10/2015 10:06:56 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
As far as I can tell in my own life experience and in written scripture God communicates through the spirit, which could also be a vision as well (visions are from the spirit) and it is through that opening we gain access.
Rather than going on a personal spiel I'll show you a few scriptures that reveal this simple understanding so bear with me, I know how some of you feel about posting scriptures but it is relevant to the question and topic.
More relevant than scripture, EV, might be psychology. Here are some psychological questions I believe any theologian ought to ask before making claims about gods talking to anyone:

1) Why do humans imagine that any new thought popping into their heads originates outside their heads at all?
2) Why, when they imagine it does, do they so often also conceive that it's magically insightful, accurate, prophetic or authoritative when we know from experience that so many of our whimsical musings are silly and outright wrong?
3) Why when these supposed insights are falsified -- sometimes repeatedly, do people then insist on reinterpreting the idea to try to make it right -- instead of recognising (as is grows increasingly likely with each falsification) that the idea was in fact wrong, and the seeking to trust such ideas is both inaccurate and invalid?
4) Why do people imagine they could ever identify an external author of those ideas anyway?
5) Why, when they attempt to do so, do they imagine it's the same author -- and yet then are never able to agree exactly what that supposedly identical author is like? And finally
6) Given all the above, why would anyone ever trust the authenticity, accuracy, validity and veracity of ideas that had popped into the heads of ancient, ignorant, unknown and unauthenticated authors -- and trust such ideas and their translations, redactions, transcriptions and interpretations so strongly as to commit their lives, welfare and happiness to the veracity and accuracy of those words?

My suggestion: answer those credibly first, and only then start talking about the authority of scripture.

You want a carnal answer. God deals with and reveals to his children through the spirit. If you've never tried to communicate with God, then you really have no gripe logically. If you continually approached God and asked him to speak tou and nothing happened, then you could make a more rational assertion of the topic at hand. If you don't try it, it is illogical to say it doesn't work. Just sayin.
Tell that to Mother Teresa.

What of my words is inconsistant with Mother Teresa. Just curious
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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12/11/2015 1:25:53 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 8:39:40 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 1:53:28 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
SO yeah Gritty, God does answer your prayers, really, never mind the every amputee, every child born blind got jack, God for some reason decided to single you out for special attention and for good measure throws you a few winks.

And on that note, here's fellow Australian Tim Minchin recanting his atheism and offering a song of praise for answered prayers.

https://www.youtube.com...

Many thanks for that. Ruv. Highly amusing.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 2:05:17 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 1:25:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 12/11/2015 8:39:40 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 1:53:28 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
SO yeah Gritty, God does answer your prayers, really, never mind the every amputee, every child born blind got jack, God for some reason decided to single you out for special attention and for good measure throws you a few winks.

And on that note, here's fellow Australian Tim Minchin recanting his atheism and offering a song of praise for answered prayers.

https://www.youtube.com...

Many thanks for that. Ruv. Highly amusing.

Who says he hasn't answered an amputee's prayers? Sometimes to take away is to give. You perceive with carnal perception. If you knew the future and the outcome of everything, yoir methods would not match the carnal mind's logic. If you knew the future, your loved one's would deem you mad because you would constantly be trying to keep things from happening because of your gift. If you knew having legs would destroy someone would you allow them to be taken. If their loss of legs caused them to do something great or help others would you allow them to be taken? In this logic you do greatly error.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 2:08:32 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
You can't pray reality away magically. God answers the rational prayers of those who seek him in truth and love with an honest and sincere heart. He answers in 3 ways. Yes. No, and wait. And when he answers yes, you get hit with it and with vigor.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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12/11/2015 2:19:08 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 2:08:32 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
You can't pray reality away magically. God answers the rational prayers of those who seek him in truth and love with an honest and sincere heart. He answers in 3 ways. Yes. No, and wait. And when he answers yes, you get hit with it and with vigor.

... so should some one genuinely seek Him, they should be able to find Him. And only those genuinely seeking Him find Him. And those seeking Him that do not find Him were not "genuine". And the only thing that knows if they were genuine is Him and the "seeker".

You don't see a problem with this, AT ALL?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Pollux
Posts: 241
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12/11/2015 2:19:15 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 2:05:17 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 1:25:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 12/11/2015 8:39:40 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 1:53:28 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
SO yeah Gritty, God does answer your prayers, really, never mind the every amputee, every child born blind got jack, God for some reason decided to single you out for special attention and for good measure throws you a few winks.

And on that note, here's fellow Australian Tim Minchin recanting his atheism and offering a song of praise for answered prayers.

https://www.youtube.com...

Many thanks for that. Ruv. Highly amusing.

Who says he hasn't answered an amputee's prayers? Sometimes to take away is to give. You perceive with carnal perception. If you knew the future and the outcome of everything, yoir methods would not match the carnal mind's logic. If you knew the future, your loved one's would deem you mad because you would constantly be trying to keep things from happening because of your gift. If you knew having legs would destroy someone would you allow them to be taken. If their loss of legs caused them to do something great or help others would you allow them to be taken? In this logic you do greatly error.

Are you claiming that such is the case for EVERY amputee who has prayed for restoration of the limb(s)?
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 2:22:35 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
The dying, the crippled, the mentally ill, the unwanted, the unloved they are jesus in disguise. ..... [through the] poor people I have an opportunity to be 24 hours a day with jesus."

-Mother Teresa
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 2:24:50 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
2Don"t forget to show hospitality to strangers, for some who have done this have entertained angels without realizing it!

Hebrews 13:2
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 2:30:35 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
What variable am I in the complex equation we call life? What variable are amputees in the complex equation we call life? How can we discern logic or a logical and sequential order within something that is not sequential, but exists from a knowledge that we do not even possess? If advanced aliens landed on Earth and possessed abilities and technologies beyond the depth of ours, we could not assess how or why they do what they do. We would simply know that what they do works. If we can place no logic on the hows and whys of there behaviors, that makes it no less correct.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 2:32:15 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 2:05:17 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 1:25:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 12/11/2015 8:39:40 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 1:53:28 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
SO yeah Gritty, God does answer your prayers, really, never mind the every amputee, every child born blind got jack, God for some reason decided to single you out for special attention and for good measure throws you a few winks.

And on that note, here's fellow Australian Tim Minchin recanting his atheism and offering a song of praise for answered prayers.

https://www.youtube.com...

Many thanks for that. Ruv. Highly amusing.

Who says he hasn't answered an amputee's prayers? Sometimes to take away is to give. You perceive with carnal perception. If you knew the future and the outcome of everything, yoir methods would not match the carnal mind's logic. If you knew the future, your loved one's would deem you mad because you would constantly be trying to keep things from happening because of your gift. If you knew having legs would destroy someone would you allow them to be taken. If their loss of legs caused them to do something great or help others would you allow them to be taken? In this logic you do greatly error.

What a puerile ad-hoc justification for letting someone live without the most basic body parts we all depend on. What about the amputees and paraplegics who end up taking their own lives, you absolutely ridiculous ideologue? How do they play into your supposedly merciful and all knowing deity's plan?
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 2:35:50 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 2:19:15 PM, Pollux wrote:
At 12/11/2015 2:05:17 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 1:25:53 PM, desmac wrote:
At 12/11/2015 8:39:40 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 1:53:28 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
SO yeah Gritty, God does answer your prayers, really, never mind the every amputee, every child born blind got jack, God for some reason decided to single you out for special attention and for good measure throws you a few winks.

And on that note, here's fellow Australian Tim Minchin recanting his atheism and offering a song of praise for answered prayers.

https://www.youtube.com...

Many thanks for that. Ruv. Highly amusing.

Who says he hasn't answered an amputee's prayers? Sometimes to take away is to give. You perceive with carnal perception. If you knew the future and the outcome of everything, yoir methods would not match the carnal mind's logic. If you knew the future, your loved one's would deem you mad because you would constantly be trying to keep things from happening because of your gift. If you knew having legs would destroy someone would you allow them to be taken. If their loss of legs caused them to do something great or help others would you allow them to be taken? In this logic you do greatly error.

Are you claiming that such is the case for EVERY amputee who has prayed for restoration of the limb(s)?

Sometimes God uses people to provide the miracle. Is receiving an artificial leg an answered prayer? How about a wheelchair? Would someone living 1,000 years ago think of these devices as wonderful? Probably. If you are an amputee and get ahold of one of these devices, do you become grateful for the help oor become bitter?