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"The Lord's Prayer"

MadCornishBiker
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12/11/2015 3:17:25 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
Many people say the what is known as the Lord's Prayer but I wonder how many actually spend any time thinking about what Jesus is really saying in it.

Let's have a look at it.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

The first thing to notice is that JEsus says "After this manner" not "using these words.

Why, because if we just repeat the same words over and again they lose any real meaning, plus, if we do just repeat his words by rote we are disobeying him.

Why?
Well look a few verse earlier, at verse 7, which warns us not to use "vain repetitions".

Our prayers must come from our hearts not just our heads.

Also note we must pray for our father's name to be made holy, hallowed.

Do you make Jehovah's name holy? Do you even know it or use it?

Jesus made it clear that he not only has a father but also a God, when he told Mary that after his resurrection (John 20:17), and he spent his whole ministry bringing praise to his father's name, hence Revelation 3:14 calls him the faithful and true Witness.

10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

What is God's Kingdom, and how will it bring about Jehovah's will being done on earth the same way t is in heaven?

Daniel 2:44 and Revelation 16 tells us that Jehovah will send his son and his Angels to destroy all human Governments and Christ will rule in their place.

After all, how was, and is Jehovah's will done in heaven?

Well up to Satan's being thrown out it was only done by the faithful Angels, but now it is done throughout the heavens with not one dissenting voice.

That is how it will be on earth. There will be no human Governments to squabble over how things are done, because it is Jehovah's will that shall be done, not that of any man.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

Just our daily bread, not the latest car or super computer. Not that there is anything wrong with having anything you wish as long as it doesn't harm the family or stop you doing Jehovah's will.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Well, do we forgive others who do us wrong? We must if we wish to have the wrongs we do against Jehovah and his son forgiven.

For instance, do you forgive the JWs the errors they made?

If not how can you expect Jehovah's son to forgive your errors?

You can't, and he won't.

13 And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Temptation assails us on all sides in this world. We see it on TV, in the streets, everywhere and in so many forms.

Are we tempted to give in to it? and do what Jehovah does not approve of?

Ask Jehovah for his help and his strength and he will help you, provided you also help yourself by staying as far from temptation as you can manage.

So you see, the Lords Prayer, is not for constant repetition, it is a pattern or model to show us the things we should pray for, and the priority we must given them.

Prayers learned by rote will not reach Jehovah's ear, prayers from the heart may well do if they are for acceptable things.

Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat".
lifeforce
Posts: 45
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12/11/2015 11:35:21 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat". : :

God planned everything we want and that's why we don't get what we want. He knows what we need so He told His people to listen to His voice and obey His commandments. This is the only way to find out what it is we need.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/11/2015 11:52:48 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 11:35:21 PM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat". : :

God planned everything we want and that's why we don't get what we want. He knows what we need so He told His people to listen to His voice and obey His commandments. This is the only way to find out what it is we need.

Jehovah did not plan everything we want, just as he did not plan for this world to be as it is.

That is all too often down to Satan sticking temptation in our way.

Jehovah will get what he wants in the end, he will make sure he does.

The only choice we have is over whether we wish to be part of it enough to learn about ti, and work towards it.
lifeforce
Posts: 45
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12/12/2015 12:21:15 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 11:52:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 11:35:21 PM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat". : :

God planned everything we want and that's why we don't get what we want. He knows what we need so He told His people to listen to His voice and obey His commandments. This is the only way to find out what it is we need.

Jehovah did not plan everything we want, just as he did not plan for this world to be as it is.

That is all too often down to Satan sticking temptation in our way.

Jehovah will get what he wants in the end, he will make sure he does.

The only choice we have is over whether we wish to be part of it enough to learn about ti, and work towards it. : :

Isaiah 44
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

Acts 17
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought; who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth -- the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!

Deuteronomy 28
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.

Jeremiah 31
31: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32: not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

God's people do not make any decisions to be saved. Salvation is from God for ALL His people.
janesix
Posts: 3,466
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12/12/2015 12:33:38 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
The lords prayer can be used for meditation like a mantra. This may bring you closer to god.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/12/2015 12:48:38 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 12:21:15 AM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 11:52:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 11:35:21 PM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat". : :

God planned everything we want and that's why we don't get what we want. He knows what we need so He told His people to listen to His voice and obey His commandments. This is the only way to find out what it is we need.

Jehovah did not plan everything we want, just as he did not plan for this world to be as it is.

That is all too often down to Satan sticking temptation in our way.

Jehovah will get what he wants in the end, he will make sure he does.

The only choice we have is over whether we wish to be part of it enough to learn about ti, and work towards it. : :


Isaiah 44
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

Acts 17
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought; who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth -- the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!

Deuteronomy 28
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.


Jeremiah 31
31: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32: not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

God's people do not make any decisions to be saved. Salvation is from God for ALL His people.

Not entirely true, whilst it is true that salvation comes from Jehovah, through Christ, Christ laid down a number of conditions governing salvation, and which identify which from amongst humans actually are Jehovah's people.

John 17:3 taking in accurate knowledge of both father and son as individuals.
John 4:23-24 following and teaching only truth, and there can only be one truth.
Matthew 7:21-23 ONly those who are actually carrying out the will of his father will be recognised by Christ when the time comes.
Matthew 10:22 Endurance is needed. In fact most of Matthew 10 applies to the qualification for salvation.
Matthew 24:13 Also endurance.
Luke 17:26-30. Here Christ makes it very clear that it will only be a minority of humans who will qualify as Jehovah's people and be saved.

I could go on. There are numerous ways in which scripture shows that salvation will be hard won, Paul even calls it a prize, and the majority will fall by the wayside for one reason or another.

Yes, both Jesus and Jehovah would love all to be saved were it to be possible, but the choice is ours as to whether or not we put ourselves in line for salvation, he won;t foist it on any who do not wish to be a part of the world he had planned from the very beginning.

What sort of world is it to be?

Well prophecies describe it as:

A world without death or sickness.

A world where there are no national divisions and therefore no warfare.

A world where there is no hunger.

A world where man is at peace with himself, with each other, and with all of creation.

A world where work will be meaningful and fulfilling, and much easier than it is today.

That is what Adam and Eve threw away, but what will be open for those who wish to be a part of it and therefore work to be what Jehovah wants them to be.

Unfortunately scripture shows that few will choose that path. Matthew 7:13-14.
Pollux
Posts: 241
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12/12/2015 1:06:31 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
Stupid God. He supposedly "wants" people to "find him" but there's no way to ever verify what dogma is most accurate. One wonders why he feels that chemistry and math are more important to be universally conveyed with obvious proof. Hides himself in layers and levels of unmanageable enigma yet makes gravity and math fairly obvious
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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12/12/2015 2:45:46 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 11:35:21 PM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat". : :

God planned everything we want and that's why we don't get what we want. He knows what we need so He told His people to listen to His voice and obey His commandments. This is the only way to find out what it is we need.

Standing in one corner:

Saint Brad of Schizoville, currently on an 11-month reprieve from the martyr's death he sentenced himself to 11 months ago.

Standing in the other corner:

The MadClown, our resident disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witness, who is currently trying to sell them on the idea that he's "married without a marriage license".

*****

Let the gloves come off, and the games begin.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/12/2015 11:06:33 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 1:06:31 AM, Pollux wrote:
Stupid God. He supposedly "wants" people to "find him" but there's no way to ever verify what dogma is most accurate. One wonders why he feels that chemistry and math are more important to be universally conveyed with obvious proof. Hides himself in layers and levels of unmanageable enigma yet makes gravity and math fairly obvious

Not so, it is very easy to determine which dogma is true, provided you rely on Jehovah for help, and study scripture to as great a depth as you can manage.

As I have experienced myself he is only too willing to help.

There are qualifications which any group has to meet carefully built into scripture, and there is only one group that meets them.

John 4:23-24. Truth must be their only concern.
John 17:11,22 The must demonstrate precisely the same unity of thought and teaching as do Christ and Jehovah. That means 100%, to the death if necessary.
John 17:3 Learning to know, and understand both Christ and his father, as individual is also essential.
1 Peter 1:3 Just as it was with the Apostles praise must be given to the "God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ" over and above any given to Christ himself.
1 Corinthians 11:1 They must be striving, as the Apostles did, to imitate Christ in every way humanly possible, and teaching others to do the same.

There are more qualifications to be met, but they will do for now because there is only one group that meets all of them.

Yup, it is the JWs, who, like Christ, bear Witness to Jehovah and his will and purposes (Revelation 3:14).

Check it out. What have you to lose but 1 hour a week, at least until you decide to give it more.

You have eternity to gain.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/12/2015 11:14:52 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 2:45:46 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/11/2015 11:35:21 PM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat". : :

God planned everything we want and that's why we don't get what we want. He knows what we need so He told His people to listen to His voice and obey His commandments. This is the only way to find out what it is we need.

Standing in one corner:

Saint Brad of Schizoville, currently on an 11-month reprieve from the martyr's death he sentenced himself to 11 months ago.

Standing in the other corner:

The MadClown, our resident disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witness, who is currently trying to sell them on the idea that he's "married without a marriage license".

*****

Let the gloves come off, and the games begin.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything, and that small detail will soon be corrected. I state only what is true, I am married in all bar the legality. Our relationship is as strong and as permanent as any marriage. Even though we have been apart for nearly two years I am still supporting her, her daughter and her sister, including putting the 16year old sister through University, since she wishes to become a teacher.

I am well aware of the necessity, scripturally, to have the marriage registered and as I say that small detail will be cared for as soon as possible, and would have been two years ago had not the system for obtaining the needed paperwork changed and prevented our marriage on that visit.

However there is very much more to a marriage than its registration, especially in the scriptural sense of a marriage, and we are only that one piece of paper short of the ideal.

You may look down on me as a clown, but by doing so all you prove is that I am on the right course, since it is those looked down on by such as you, completely enmeshed in tis world, that Jehovah and his son choose to use. 1 Corinthians 1:26-30.

He cannot use such as you for the same reason, too enmeshed in the world in your thinking.

You have a lot of changing to do if you wish to be acceptable to Christ and his father.

There will be no fireworks, like the King I serve, Christ, I do not indulge in such, tempting as it sometimes is.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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12/12/2015 3:08:06 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 11:14:52 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/12/2015 2:45:46 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/11/2015 11:35:21 PM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat". : :

God planned everything we want and that's why we don't get what we want. He knows what we need so He told His people to listen to His voice and obey His commandments. This is the only way to find out what it is we need.

Standing in one corner:

Saint Brad of Schizoville, currently on an 11-month reprieve from the martyr's death he sentenced himself to 11 months ago.

Standing in the other corner:

The MadClown, our resident disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witness, who is currently trying to sell them on the idea that he's "married without a marriage license".

*****

Let the gloves come off, and the games begin.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything, and that small detail will soon be corrected.

I hope it's a quicker "soon" than the imaginary yet-future Armageddon that the BotchTower has been prognosticating for the last 140 years. After all, they've been telling everyone that it's "soon" ... just around the corner ... before the generation that saw 1914 dies out ... for a long, long time.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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12/12/2015 3:26:32 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 3:17:25 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Many people say the what is known as the Lord's Prayer but I wonder how many actually spend any time thinking about what MadCornishBiker makes up from his imagination.

Let's have a look at it.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

The first thing to notice is that JEsus says "After this manner" not "using these words.

Why, because if we just repeat the same words over and again they lose any real meaning, plus, if we do just repeat his words by rote we are disobeying him.

Why?
Well look a few verse earlier, at verse 7, which warns us not to use "vain repetitions".

Our prayers must come from our hearts not just our heads.

Also note we must pray for our father's name to be made holy, hallowed.

Do you make Jehovah's name holy? Do you even know it or use it?

Jesus made it clear that he not only has a father but also a God, when he told Mary that after his resurrection (John 20:17), and he spent his whole ministry bringing praise to his father's name, hence Revelation 3:14 calls him the faithful and true Witness.


10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

What is God's Kingdom, and how will it bring about Jehovah's will being done on earth the same way t is in heaven?

Daniel 2:44 and Revelation 16 tells us that Jehovah will send his son and his Angels to destroy all human Governments and Christ will rule in their place.

After all, how was, and is Jehovah's will done in heaven?

Well up to Satan's being thrown out it was only done by the faithful Angels, but now it is done throughout the heavens with not one dissenting voice.

That is how it will be on earth. There will be no human Governments to squabble over how things are done, because it is Jehovah's will that shall be done, not that of any man.


11 Give us this day our daily bread.

Just our daily bread, not the latest car or super computer. Not that there is anything wrong with having anything you wish as long as it doesn't harm the family or stop you doing Jehovah's will.


12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Well, do we forgive others who do us wrong? We must if we wish to have the wrongs we do against Jehovah and his son forgiven.

For instance, do you forgive the JWs the errors they made?

If not how can you expect Jehovah's son to forgive your errors?

You can't, and he won't.

13 And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Temptation assails us on all sides in this world. We see it on TV, in the streets, everywhere and in so many forms.

Are we tempted to give in to it? and do what Jehovah does not approve of?

Ask Jehovah for his help and his strength and he will help you, provided you also help yourself by staying as far from temptation as you can manage.

So you see, the Lords Prayer, is not for constant repetition, it is a pattern or model to show us the things we should pray for, and the priority we must given them.

Prayers learned by rote will not reach Jehovah's ear, prayers from the heart may well do if they are for acceptable things.

Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

Fixed the OP.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
lifeforce
Posts: 45
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12/12/2015 4:30:42 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 12:48:38 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/12/2015 12:21:15 AM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 11:52:48 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 11:35:21 PM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:21:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:50:57 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

And you know that for a FACT, do you?

Of course, scripture tells us just that, we have to show that, like the widow with the lost drachma, we are prepared to make the effort to find or obtain what we want, especially the truth about Jehovah.

That scriptural teaching is the basis of the saying that God helps those who helps themselves.

It is also the base of the scriptural saying "let he who will not work, not eat". : :

God planned everything we want and that's why we don't get what we want. He knows what we need so He told His people to listen to His voice and obey His commandments. This is the only way to find out what it is we need.

Jehovah did not plan everything we want, just as he did not plan for this world to be as it is.

That is all too often down to Satan sticking temptation in our way.

Jehovah will get what he wants in the end, he will make sure he does.

The only choice we have is over whether we wish to be part of it enough to learn about ti, and work towards it. : :


Isaiah 44
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --

Acts 17
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought; who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth -- the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!

Deuteronomy 28
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.


Jeremiah 31
31: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32: not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
33: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

God's people do not make any decisions to be saved. Salvation is from God for ALL His people.

Not entirely true, whilst it is true that salvation comes from Jehovah, through Christ, Christ laid down a number of conditions governing salvation, and which identify which from amongst humans actually are Jehovah's people.

Christ is not the name of a man. It's a symbolic name that has a much deeper meaning that no Christian understands.

John 17:3 taking in accurate knowledge of both father and son as individuals.
John 4:23-24 following and teaching only truth, and there can only be one truth.
Matthew 7:21-23 ONly those who are actually carrying out the will of his father will be recognised by Christ when the time comes.
Matthew 10:22 Endurance is needed. In fact most of Matthew 10 applies to the qualification for salvation.
Matthew 24:13 Also endurance.
Luke 17:26-30. Here Christ makes it very clear that it will only be a minority of humans who will qualify as Jehovah's people and be saved.

I could go on. There are numerous ways in which scripture shows that salvation will be hard won, Paul even calls it a prize, and the majority will fall by the wayside for one reason or another.

Yes, both Jesus and Jehovah would love all to be saved were it to be possible, but the choice is ours as to whether or not we put ourselves in line for salvation, he won;t foist it on any who do not wish to be a part of the world he had planned from the very beginning.

What sort of world is it to be?

Well prophecies describe it as:

A world without death or sickness.

A world where there are no national divisions and therefore no warfare.

A world where there is no hunger.

A world where man is at peace with himself, with each other, and with all of creation.

A world where work will be meaningful and fulfilling, and much easier than it is today.

That is what Adam and Eve threw away, but what will be open for those who wish to be a part of it and therefore work to be what Jehovah wants them to be.

Unfortunately scripture shows that few will choose that path. Matthew 7:13-14. : :
DPMartin
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12/12/2015 8:19:21 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 3:17:25 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

Nope, not even close, He already knows what you want. Your words seem like the thinking of a childish brat that thinks love is another"s desire to fulfill the brat's wants.

The Lord God wants you to know what He wants, thinks, and says, and it could be about anything in your life, or are experiencing. Because what He wants, thinks, and says is good for you and His creation.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/13/2015 8:51:44 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 8:19:21 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:17:25 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.


Nope, not even close, He already knows what you want. Your words seem like the thinking of a childish brat that thinks love is another"s desire to fulfill the brat's wants.

Well if that is what you think of what Christ taught then I pity you, because I am only telling you what scripture says, what Christ taught, and the Apostles after him.

Yes Jehovah knows what you need, and probably what you want, but Jesus, Jehovah's own son incarnate, still told us we need to pray for it.

That's good enough for me even if it isn;t for you.


The Lord God wants you to know what He wants, thinks, and says, and it could be about anything in your life, or are experiencing. Because what He wants, thinks, and says is good for you and His creation.

I know what Jehovah wants, and for start he wants you to use his name, not just his title. How would you like it if all anyone called you was "Mr" ( assuming your gender to be male)? Simply calling him the Lord God is exactly the same.

Also Peter and Paul reminded us that as Joel 2:32 says, it is Jehovah's name we need to call on to be saved.

Of course you need a translation honest enough to have left his name where it belongs to know that, not all are that honesty, in fact I only know of two, the ASV and the NWT.

By the way, and this bit is for Annanicole, the WTBTS also publish the ASV.

Using only the title "The Lord God" reminds me of what Jesus told the woman at the well:

John 4:22 "Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews."

I know Jehovah, and I have as good an idea of how he thinks as any human can have. I also know what he likes and wants from us, because I have his word to tell me, his son to show me the example and holy spirit too strengthen me.

Hence I worship the God that Christ worships John 20:17. You should also.
MadCornishBiker
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12/13/2015 8:53:57 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 4:30:42 PM, lifeforce wrote:
At 12/12/2015 12:48:38 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:



Christ is not the name of a man. It's a symbolic name that has a much deeper meaning that no Christian understands.

Christ is not a name. end of.

It is a title, hence strictly speaking it should be Jesus the Christ.

MadCornishBiker
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12/13/2015 8:54:49 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 3:26:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 12/11/2015 3:17:25 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Many people say the what is known as the Lord's Prayer but I wonder how many actually spend any time thinking about what MadCornishBiker makes up from his imagination.

Let's have a look at it.

9 After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

The first thing to notice is that JEsus says "After this manner" not "using these words.

Why, because if we just repeat the same words over and again they lose any real meaning, plus, if we do just repeat his words by rote we are disobeying him.

Why?
Well look a few verse earlier, at verse 7, which warns us not to use "vain repetitions".

Our prayers must come from our hearts not just our heads.

Also note we must pray for our father's name to be made holy, hallowed.

Do you make Jehovah's name holy? Do you even know it or use it?

Jesus made it clear that he not only has a father but also a God, when he told Mary that after his resurrection (John 20:17), and he spent his whole ministry bringing praise to his father's name, hence Revelation 3:14 calls him the faithful and true Witness.


10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

What is God's Kingdom, and how will it bring about Jehovah's will being done on earth the same way t is in heaven?

Daniel 2:44 and Revelation 16 tells us that Jehovah will send his son and his Angels to destroy all human Governments and Christ will rule in their place.

After all, how was, and is Jehovah's will done in heaven?

Well up to Satan's being thrown out it was only done by the faithful Angels, but now it is done throughout the heavens with not one dissenting voice.

That is how it will be on earth. There will be no human Governments to squabble over how things are done, because it is Jehovah's will that shall be done, not that of any man.


11 Give us this day our daily bread.

Just our daily bread, not the latest car or super computer. Not that there is anything wrong with having anything you wish as long as it doesn't harm the family or stop you doing Jehovah's will.


12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Well, do we forgive others who do us wrong? We must if we wish to have the wrongs we do against Jehovah and his son forgiven.

For instance, do you forgive the JWs the errors they made?

If not how can you expect Jehovah's son to forgive your errors?

You can't, and he won't.

13 And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Temptation assails us on all sides in this world. We see it on TV, in the streets, everywhere and in so many forms.

Are we tempted to give in to it? and do what Jehovah does not approve of?

Ask Jehovah for his help and his strength and he will help you, provided you also help yourself by staying as far from temptation as you can manage.

So you see, the Lords Prayer, is not for constant repetition, it is a pattern or model to show us the things we should pray for, and the priority we must given them.

Prayers learned by rote will not reach Jehovah's ear, prayers from the heart may well do if they are for acceptable things.

Jehovah does not only want to know what we want, but how badly we want it.

Fixed the OP.

??
MadCornishBiker
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12/13/2015 9:01:44 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/12/2015 3:08:06 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/12/2015 11:14:52 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything, and that small detail will soon be corrected.

I hope it's a quicker "soon" than the imaginary yet-future Armageddon that the BotchTower has been prognosticating for the last 140 years. After all, they've been telling everyone that it's "soon" ... just around the corner ... before the generation that saw 1914 dies out ... for a long, long time.

It will be exactly the "soon" Jehovah intended it to be when it was said.

As Jesus said, it will come "as a thief in the night" exactly when it is least expected, and so we have to do what Christ told us, which would be a first for you, lol, and Keep on the Watch for it.

Just as Noah had no idea when the deluge would come until Jehovah shut the door of the Ark, thus ending Noah's preaching, the cessation of the Witnessing work and thus the end of the invitation into the modern day equivalent of the Ark, will tell us it is only days, maybe even hours, away.

At least then we will know exactly which generation Christ was referring to, lol.

Until then all we can do is watch, wait, and guess.

Should we guess?

Maybe not, but considering what we are waiting for, and what Jehovah will bring in it's wake, it is hardly surprising that we do.
annanicole
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12/13/2015 9:04:22 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:01:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/12/2015 3:08:06 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/12/2015 11:14:52 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything, and that small detail will soon be corrected.

I hope it's a quicker "soon" than the imaginary yet-future Armageddon that the BotchTower has been prognosticating for the last 140 years. After all, they've been telling everyone that it's "soon" ... just around the corner ... before the generation that saw 1914 dies out ... for a long, long time.

It will be exactly the "soon" Jehovah intended it to be when it was said.

Jehovah didn't say it. You did.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."