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Atheism and life after death.

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,668
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12/11/2015 5:22:48 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

Atheism =/= Naturalism. Since atheism exclusively pertains to the belief in a deity, the supernatural (in this case, life after death) is not a concern of atheism. For example, Buddhism can the atheistic. As another, I know an atheist who believes in ghosts.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/11/2015 5:28:33 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:22:48 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

Atheism =/= Naturalism. Since atheism exclusively pertains to the belief in a deity, the supernatural (in this case, life after death) is not a concern of atheism. For example, Buddhism can the atheistic. As another, I know an atheist who believes in ghosts.

If God doesn't exist, ultimately consciousness must've arisen from the physical. It needn't matter that dualism or any other forms of the supernatural are possible. If consciousness necessarily emerges from the physical (which it must if atheism is true) then I don't see how my post is irrelevant towards atheists.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,668
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12/11/2015 5:35:57 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:22:48 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

Atheism =/= Naturalism. Since atheism exclusively pertains to the belief in a deity, the supernatural (in this case, life after death) is not a concern of atheism. For example, Buddhism can the atheistic. As another, I know an atheist who believes in ghosts.

If God doesn't exist, ultimately consciousness must've arisen from the physical. It needn't matter that dualism or any other forms of the supernatural are possible. If consciousness necessarily emerges from the physical (which it must if atheism is true) then I don't see how my post is irrelevant towards atheists.

Why? A person can believe in an eternal, spiritual, cyclic system of life, for example, without a central deity. Labels just pertain to what beliefs are held, not their validity.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/11/2015 6:17:25 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:35:57 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:22:48 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

Atheism =/= Naturalism. Since atheism exclusively pertains to the belief in a deity, the supernatural (in this case, life after death) is not a concern of atheism. For example, Buddhism can the atheistic. As another, I know an atheist who believes in ghosts.

If God doesn't exist, ultimately consciousness must've arisen from the physical. It needn't matter that dualism or any other forms of the supernatural are possible. If consciousness necessarily emerges from the physical (which it must if atheism is true) then I don't see how my post is irrelevant towards atheists.

Why? A person can believe in an eternal, spiritual, cyclic system of life, for example, without a central deity. Labels just pertain to what beliefs are held, not their validity.

I was assuming that the person's beliefs must be logically consistent. To believe that human beings have existed forever is not logically consistent since we exist contingently. All atheists, in order to be logically consistent, must maintain that life arose from the physical. The reason is because reality must regress to a point where everything either arose from a source of consciousness or from non-consciousness. If everything arose from consciousness then God exists and atheism is false. If everything arose from non-consciousness then aspects of consciousness (spirituality, the metaphysical, etc.) did not exist during that time and therefore must be emergent processes.

So if atheism is true dualism is necessarily emergent from the physical (if we're being logically consitent).
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 6:23:51 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

What if we saved your thoughts and sense of self onto something like a hard drive or flash drive and downloaded your program into a baby in the future? Hmmmm???
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 6:26:06 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

What if the exact physical properties that you have realign exactly and we save your brain's computations onto a computer then feed them to your future replication.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 6:27:11 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

I think you're missing mine. Even if there were some spark of consciousness that could migrate from one body to another, it would not be "me" in any meaningful way. It would be another individual temporarily stored in that spark until the next death. I would not call it 'me'.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 6:29:04 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:26:06 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

What if the exact physical properties that you have realign exactly and we save your brain's computations onto a computer then feed them to your future replication.

Then you'd have an individual that resembles me down to a very fine point. Assuming this were possible, it would then be a matter of philosophical and legal debate if it were 'me' or some other individual that looked, acted, and thought like me. Good luck to whoever has to have that decision thrust upon them.
mrsatan
Posts: 428
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12/11/2015 6:34:16 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

Because my consciousness isn't "who I am". It is what allows me to be who I am.

Besides that, who I am is an ever changing concept. The experiences I have change who I am. Not always, but often enough that I am not the same "me" that I was 20 years ago. If the experiences I've had in those 20 years were substantially different, I doubt I would be the same "me" that I am today.

In other words, my experiences contribute to who I am. As such, without those experiences, I would be someone else.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 6:40:01 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

He likes you. I can tell. But I understand your point. If the physical and randomness accumulated into "you" it will eventually hit the jackpot, so to speak, and construct an exact you again. Or the constructs that make up your exact consciousness will be constructed again in infinite space and time. Anything mechanical, if there is no "god", should be able to be rebuilt. Who's to say a future, more technologically advanced group decides to make lifeforms such as humans like a science expiriment. Anything that has been constructed or built is proof that it can be constructed or rebuilt. To say it existed once but cannot be reconstructed is illogical (IMO). A future race might be so advanced that they could reconstruct your consciousness at the simplest subatomic level. Perhaps they would duplicate exactly each basic subatomic element of your consciousness. And if they could record the messages and signals to reboot your memories into your future consciousness, could it not feel to you like youARE you AND you remember itit?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/11/2015 6:43:13 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:27:11 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

I think you're missing mine. Even if there were some spark of consciousness that could migrate from one body to another, it would not be "me" in any meaningful way. It would be another individual temporarily stored in that spark until the next death. I would not call it 'me'.

I understand what you're saying - another Dhardage will not exist after you die because what makes you you is your experiences, memories, unique neural framework, etc. Buf if consciousness was cyclical then the "other persons" future of experiences, memories, unique neural framework etc. would be lived by a first person experience - again. It could very possibly be the case that you will experience life as a different person but have no knowledge of who you once were. "You" in the sense of having the capability to have a first person experience.
GrittyWorm
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12/11/2015 6:44:55 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
I believe this is what it would take whether by evolution or an intelligent designer.

1)Reconstruct your consciousness at the subatomic level. That is your personal self.

2)Save the parts that store memories onto some kind of advanced hard drive.

3)Download these memories into your new mechanism somehow intertwining your original consciousness and your memories together.

Theory 2

Evolution did it once. Maybe it's done it many times. It will do it again.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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12/11/2015 6:46:21 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:40:01 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

He likes you. I can tell. But I understand your point. If the physical and randomness accumulated into "you" it will eventually hit the jackpot, so to speak, and construct an exact you again. Or the constructs that make up your exact consciousness will be constructed again in infinite space and time. Anything mechanical, if there is no "god", should be able to be rebuilt. Who's to say a future, more technologically advanced group decides to make lifeforms such as humans like a science expiriment. Anything that has been constructed or built is proof that it can be constructed or rebuilt. To say it existed once but cannot be reconstructed is illogical (IMO). A future race might be so advanced that they could reconstruct your consciousness at the simplest subatomic level. Perhaps they would duplicate exactly each basic subatomic element of your consciousness. And if they could record the messages and signals to reboot your memories into your future consciousness, could it not feel to you like youARE you AND you remember itit?

Indeed!
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 6:47:26 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:40:01 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

He likes you. I can tell. But I understand your point. If the physical and randomness accumulated into "you" it will eventually hit the jackpot, so to speak, and construct an exact you again. Or the constructs that make up your exact consciousness will be constructed again in infinite space and time. Anything mechanical, if there is no "god", should be able to be rebuilt. Who's to say a future, more technologically advanced group decides to make lifeforms such as humans like a science expiriment. Anything that has been constructed or built is proof that it can be constructed or rebuilt. To say it existed once but cannot be reconstructed is illogical (IMO). A future race might be so advanced that they could reconstruct your consciousness at the simplest subatomic level. Perhaps they would duplicate exactly each basic subatomic element of your consciousness. And if they could record the messages and signals to reboot your memories into your future consciousness, could it not feel to you like youARE you AND you remember itit?

As noted, you would have an individual who looked, acted, and thought like me. For practical purposes it would be me but there would be legal and ethical questions to be answered before such a process could ever be implemented, particularly if more than one replicant were produced. Who would be the legal owner of my property, among other legal conundrums.

Theists would most likely claim it to be the work of their particular devil and claim that it was lacking the 'soul' since it would be a creation of technology rather than that of their chosen deity.

It's an interesting conjecture but does not change the fact that the "I" that exists now is part of a continuum of "I" that has constantly changed over the last 57 years and no mechanism exists to preserve it after death.
GrittyWorm
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12/11/2015 6:48:46 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
Why am I qualified to say this? I stayed at a Hilday Inn last night. I also played an expert on tv, as far as you know.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 6:49:11 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:43:13 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:27:11 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

I think you're missing mine. Even if there were some spark of consciousness that could migrate from one body to another, it would not be "me" in any meaningful way. It would be another individual temporarily stored in that spark until the next death. I would not call it 'me'.

I understand what you're saying - another Dhardage will not exist after you die because what makes you you is your experiences, memories, unique neural framework, etc. Buf if consciousness was cyclical then the "other persons" future of experiences, memories, unique neural framework etc. would be lived by a first person experience - again. It could very possibly be the case that you will experience life as a different person but have no knowledge of who you once were. "You" in the sense of having the capability to have a first person experience.

Being a generally practical individual, that would make it a distinction without a difference. With no memories of previous lives it would be as if they never happened to each successive incarnation.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/11/2015 6:56:58 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:47:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:40:01 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

He likes you. I can tell. But I understand your point. If the physical and randomness accumulated into "you" it will eventually hit the jackpot, so to speak, and construct an exact you again. Or the constructs that make up your exact consciousness will be constructed again in infinite space and time. Anything mechanical, if there is no "god", should be able to be rebuilt. Who's to say a future, more technologically advanced group decides to make lifeforms such as humans like a science expiriment. Anything that has been constructed or built is proof that it can be constructed or rebuilt. To say it existed once but cannot be reconstructed is illogical (IMO). A future race might be so advanced that they could reconstruct your consciousness at the simplest subatomic level. Perhaps they would duplicate exactly each basic subatomic element of your consciousness. And if they could record the messages and signals to reboot your memories into your future consciousness, could it not feel to you like youARE you AND you remember itit?

As noted, you would have an individual who looked, acted, and thought like me. For practical purposes it would be me but there would be legal and ethical questions to be answered before such a process could ever be implemented, particularly if more than one replicant were produced. Who would be the legal owner of my property, among other legal conundrums.

Theists would most likely claim it to be the work of their particular devil and claim that it was lacking the 'soul' since it would be a creation of technology rather than that of their chosen deity.

It's an interesting conjecture but does not change the fact that the "I" that exists now is part of a continuum of "I" that has constantly changed over the last 57 years and no mechanism exists to preserve it after death.

What do you think on "randomness theories", meaning evolution is given so much infinite space and time, that your exact consciousness duplicates and by chance through evolution , and simply by randomness, your exact memories are formed in his mind randomly, but exactly as your memories because somehow your exact memories give it some survival advantage, as in survival of the fittest, in its environment? Or... your exact consciousness reconstructs and...a future scientist makes a technology that spews out random "memories", and saves them on a hard drive like technology. And...by chance, your exact reconstructed consciousness meets the scientist, and by chance, his "hard drive" contained your exact memories, and by chance...it turns out he can download those memories and you let him, giving rebirth to an exact and conscious and self aware, "new you"?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,127
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12/11/2015 7:01:08 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

Well, since it has already been pointed out that there is no reason to think consciousness can outlive the body it resides in, I will tackle another problem with your scenario. Let's start with 10 conscious minds. What happens when the population increases to 20? I think we can agree that most every human mind has consciousness, so either finite consciousness is being spread across humanity or new consciousness is coming about in some way with each new body. Your question, more or less, disallows the second option, so we are forced to conclude when we die our consciousness may go into more than one body (since population is steadily increasing and consciousness is not). That being considered, all of "me" could not be born into another single body (and perhaps humanity is becoming less conscious).
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Chaosism
Posts: 2,668
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12/11/2015 7:08:59 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:17:25 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:35:57 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:22:48 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

Atheism =/= Naturalism. Since atheism exclusively pertains to the belief in a deity, the supernatural (in this case, life after death) is not a concern of atheism. For example, Buddhism can the atheistic. As another, I know an atheist who believes in ghosts.

If God doesn't exist, ultimately consciousness must've arisen from the physical. It needn't matter that dualism or any other forms of the supernatural are possible. If consciousness necessarily emerges from the physical (which it must if atheism is true) then I don't see how my post is irrelevant towards atheists.

Why? A person can believe in an eternal, spiritual, cyclic system of life, for example, without a central deity. Labels just pertain to what beliefs are held, not their validity.

I was assuming that the person's beliefs must be logically consistent. To believe that human beings have existed forever is not logically consistent since we exist contingently. All atheists, in order to be logically consistent, must maintain that life arose from the physical. The reason is because reality must regress to a point where everything either arose from a source of consciousness or from non-consciousness. If everything arose from consciousness then God exists and atheism is false. If everything arose from non-consciousness then aspects of consciousness (spirituality, the metaphysical, etc.) did not exist during that time and therefore must be emergent processes.

So if atheism is true dualism is necessarily emergent from the physical (if we're being logically consitent).

Many, MANY people hold beliefs that are not logically consistent. Humans are prone to that. Logically consistent is not a requirement in order to hold a belief to be true. There mere existence of the phenomena of Belief Perseverance testifies to this, in that, people have a tendency to maintain that a belief is true despite it being proven wrong. (http://psychologydictionary.org...)

Regarding eternal existence, there are those believe that life is a perpetual and eternal thing that has always existed, at least in some form. Regarding the alleged impossibility of "something from nothing", that is an assumption that is only reliable based on the observed occurrences of the observable universe. But again, beliefs don't require logical consistency. You are more accurately addressing naturalism.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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12/11/2015 7:13:00 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

An argument from memory to define consciousness, ( Identity ) is no argument at all.
There are many things you can't remember, but it's still you. Even if you got dementia and forgot your own name every five minutes, it would still be you.
GrittyWorm
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12/11/2015 7:21:03 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 7:13:00 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/:11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

An argument from memory to define consciousness, ( Identity ) is no argument at all.
There are many things you can't remember, but it's still you. Even if you got dementia and forgot your own name every five minutes, it would still be you.

His argument was that you are not you without your memories
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/11/2015 8:09:02 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/11/2015 6:56:58 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:47:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:40:01 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/11/2015 6:18:54 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:29:08 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:25:37 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:21:48 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:10:15 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 12/11/2015 5:04:35 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/11/2015 4:56:17 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
it seems that life after death in an atheistic worldview is very possible. Can't you reincarnate as someone else after you die? With each new developing brain there must also be another consciousness. There's no way to say that we won't experience life again because we might come back as a different person with no knowledge of who we were before. If your consciousness spontaneously arose from a developing brain then what would stop that from happening again after you die? What's stopping unborn people from being "you" instead of "them"?

There is no medium to retain the neural pattern that is 'me' after I die. It is the unique result of the circumstances of my life's circumstances and cannot be rebuilt. How would we experience life again if we came back as someone else? It's an oxymoron at best.

You wouldn't be the same person, no. You would have the experience of consciousness - again - but as a different person. With each new developing brain another consciousness exists. Why couldn't that candidate be you? I mean "you" in the sense that you're a consciousness.

Because "I" consist of memories and experiences, begun from the moment I am born until the instant I die. Without those memories and experiences there is no 'me'. Consciousness isn't something that exists outside a human brain and it doesn't survive when the brain dies. Each consciousness arises from the brain it inhabits and is not pulled in from some other place so no, it would never be 'me' in any shape, way, form or fashion.

Why couldn't you be reborn as a new person with new memories and experiences?

As noted above, "I" disappear when my brain dies. Nothing left to be reborn. Nothing persists that is "me" after that event.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

He likes you. I can tell. But I understand your point. If the physical and randomness accumulated into "you" it will eventually hit the jackpot, so to speak, and construct an exact you again. Or the constructs that make up your exact consciousness will be constructed again in infinite space and time. Anything mechanical, if there is no "god", should be able to be rebuilt. Who's to say a future, more technologically advanced group decides to make lifeforms such as humans like a science expiriment. Anything that has been constructed or built is proof that it can be constructed or rebuilt. To say it existed once but cannot be reconstructed is illogical (IMO). A future race might be so advanced that they could reconstruct your consciousness at the simplest subatomic level. Perhaps they would duplicate exactly each basic subatomic element of your consciousness. And if they could record the messages and signals to reboot your memories into your future consciousness, could it not feel to you like youARE you AND you remember itit?

As noted, you would have an individual who looked, acted, and thought like me. For practical purposes it would be me but there would be legal and ethical questions to be answered before such a process could ever be implemented, particularly if more than one replicant were produced. Who would be the legal owner of my property, among other legal conundrums.

Theists would most likely claim it to be the work of their particular devil and claim that it was lacking the 'soul' since it would be a creation of technology rather than that of their chosen deity.

It's an interesting conjecture but does not change the fact that the "I" that exists now is part of a continuum of "I" that has constantly changed over the last 57 years and no mechanism exists to preserve it after death.

What do you think on "randomness theories", meaning evolution is given so much infinite space and time, that your exact consciousness duplicates and by chance through evolution , and simply by randomness, your exact memories are formed in his mind randomly, but exactly as your memories because somehow your exact memories give it some survival advantage, as in survival of the fittest, in its environment? Or... your exact consciousness reconstructs and...a future scientist makes a technology that spews out random "memories", and saves them on a hard drive like technology. And...by chance, your exact reconstructed consciousness meets the scientist, and by chance, his "hard drive" contained your exact memories, and by chance...it turns out he can download those memories and you let him, giving rebirth to an exact and conscious and self aware, "new you"?

Already answered. It would be a copy, perhaps an exact copy. It might think it's me and believe it's me, but it's still only a copy even if legally declared me.