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God Justice & Mercy contradiction ?

Illegalcombatant
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12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

Now I guess you could argue that a God or person could be both just and merciful just not to the same person, some people get justice some get mercy.

But if that be the case what would one say about such a person or God ? that they are wholly/always just or merciful ? well clearly not, it would be a well sometimes they are just sometimes they are merciful.

And if that be the case you can't say in such an absolute sense that such a God is just or merciful.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is just in such an absolute sense is false.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is merciful in such an absolute sense is false.

Agree ? Disagree ? Want to shove a ferret down your pants ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Illegalcombatant
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12/13/2015 9:19:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
IN case it wasn't obvious, when talking about some one getting what they deserve or less then they deserve this is within the context of being punished for wrong doing.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
johnlubba
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12/13/2015 10:01:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Among the attributes of God, although they are all equal, mercy shines with even more brilliancy than justice.

Miguel De Cervantes
Illegalcombatant
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12/13/2015 10:48:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 10:01:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
Among the attributes of God, although they are all equal, mercy shines with even more brilliancy than justice.

So about the actual argument.......................



Miguel De Cervantes
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
johnlubba
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12/13/2015 10:53:38 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 10:48:32 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/13/2015 10:01:46 AM, johnlubba wrote:
Among the attributes of God, although they are all equal, mercy shines with even more brilliancy than justice.

So about the actual argument.......................



Miguel De Cervantes

Mercy has to come before justice although inevitably justice will follow.

There are different forms of justice, There is punishment of sin's and correctional punishment of sin's. The latter carries a stronger unity with mercy.
skipsaweirdo
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12/13/2015 11:34:26 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

Now I guess you could argue that a God or person could be both just and merciful just not to the same person, some people get justice some get mercy.

But if that be the case what would one say about such a person or God ? that they are wholly/always just or merciful ? well clearly not, it would be a well sometimes they are just sometimes they are merciful.

And if that be the case you can't say in such an absolute sense that such a God is just or merciful.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is just in such an absolute sense is false.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is merciful in such an absolute sense is false.

Agree ? Disagree ? Want to shove a ferret down your pants ?

Why can't it be just to give someone mercy? Your position seems more like exclusion of the middle fallacy. Someone might deserve mercy therefore it is just to give them mercy. "Gets what they deserve" is too ambiguous unless there is a precondition that is universally agreed upon as what actions "deserve" what punishments.
ethang5
Posts: 4,093
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12/13/2015 12:13:23 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

I'll agree with this, but I'll add that justice is also concerned with vindication, protection, and reparations for victims.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

This so far is logical. In fact, this apparent conundrum is one of the reasons why Christianity became so popular. God's solution for it is so startling, so beautiful, so wondrous, that people the world over, for thousands of years, have been mesmerized at the sheer eloquence of it.

A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

True, in the sense you have set up.

Now I guess you could argue that a God or person could be both just and merciful just not to the same person, some people get justice some get mercy.

But if that be the case what would one say about such a person or God ? that they are wholly/always just or merciful ? well clearly not, it would be a well sometimes they are just sometimes they are merciful.

And if that be the case you can't say in such an absolute sense that such a God is just or merciful.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is just in such an absolute sense is false.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is merciful in such an absolute sense is false.

In general I agree with you here, but there is a small fallacy you fall to. When the Bible says God is merciful, it does not mean that God is always merciful to everyone. In the Bible God literally says that sometimes He will NOT have mercy. He will NOT excuse. So it is illogical to interpret the phrase "God is merciful" in a way the Bible does not, but yet hold the Bible to your private interpretation of the phrase.

Another thing, God is always just. H is never unjust.

Agree ? Disagree ? Want to shove a ferret down your pants ?

Generally agree. Bottle of either and I'm game.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/13/2015 12:21:51 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 12:13:23 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

I'll agree with this, but I'll add that justice is also concerned with vindication, protection, and reparations for victims.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

This so far is logical. In fact, this apparent conundrum is one of the reasons why Christianity became so popular. God's solution for it is so startling, so beautiful, so wondrous, that people the world over, for thousands of years, have been mesmerized at the sheer eloquence of it.

A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

True, in the sense you have set up.

Now I guess you could argue that a God or person could be both just and merciful just not to the same person, some people get justice some get mercy.

But if that be the case what would one say about such a person or God ? that they are wholly/always just or merciful ? well clearly not, it would be a well sometimes they are just sometimes they are merciful.

And if that be the case you can't say in such an absolute sense that such a God is just or merciful.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is just in such an absolute sense is false.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is merciful in such an absolute sense is false.

In general I agree with you here, but there is a small fallacy you fall to. When the Bible says God is merciful, it does not mean that God is always merciful to everyone. In the Bible God literally says that sometimes He will NOT have mercy. He will NOT excuse. So it is illogical to interpret the phrase "God is merciful" in a way the Bible does not, but yet hold the Bible to your private interpretation of the phrase.

Another thing, God is always just. H is never unjust.

Agree ? Disagree ? Want to shove a ferret down your pants ?

Generally agree. Bottle of either and I'm game.

I think you contradicted yourself, you seem to agree with the concepts and logic but at the end say....."God is always just".

No, one act of mercy means God is not always just.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
ethang5
Posts: 4,093
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12/13/2015 2:26:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 12:21:51 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/13/2015 12:13:23 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

I'll agree with this, but I'll add that justice is also concerned with vindication, protection, and reparations for victims.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

This so far is logical. In fact, this apparent conundrum is one of the reasons why Christianity became so popular. God's solution for it is so startling, so beautiful, so wondrous, that people the world over, for thousands of years, have been mesmerized at the sheer eloquence of it.

A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

True, in the sense you have set up.

Now I guess you could argue that a God or person could be both just and merciful just not to the same person, some people get justice some get mercy.

But if that be the case what would one say about such a person or God ? that they are wholly/always just or merciful ? well clearly not, it would be a well sometimes they are just sometimes they are merciful.

And if that be the case you can't say in such an absolute sense that such a God is just or merciful.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is just in such an absolute sense is false.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is merciful in such an absolute sense is false.

In general I agree with you here, but there is a small fallacy you fall to. When the Bible says God is merciful, it does not mean that God is always merciful to everyone. In the Bible God literally says that sometimes He will NOT have mercy. He will NOT excuse. So it is illogical to interpret the phrase "God is merciful" in a way the Bible does not, but yet hold the Bible to your private interpretation of the phrase.

Another thing, God is always just. H is never unjust.

Agree ? Disagree ? Want to shove a ferret down your pants ?

Generally agree. Bottle of either and I'm game.

I think you contradicted yourself,......

Really? That would be highly unusual.

...you seem to agree with the concepts and logic but at the end say....."God is always just".

It seems you missed whole portions of my post.

1. God is always just, but not always merciful. God can be unmerciful without being immoral, but cannot be unjust without being immoral. God is always just when he uses justice. He does not always need to use justice.

2. God having the quality of mercy does not mean He must always be merciful. Why are you requiring the Bible to take on your personal interpretation? Why not accept what the Bible means for its own doctrine?

No, one act of mercy means God is not always just.

There is no reason to accept this comment as true except on faith. I have no faith in you. God always administers justice when justice is required by morality. But the excersize of mercy does not necessarily negate justice.

An act of mercy can be just. As I told you, justice is not synonymous with punishment. You artificially restricted the definition of justice and mercy and are trying to force the concept to fit your restrictions.
....
Pollux
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12/13/2015 2:37:09 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
It's not a stumbling block for me. God is the most contradictory character ever because he encompasses all. It's just a step in setting up the dynamic that all humans are horrible and terrible and even if a person's life is full of pain and sorrow, they should feel lucky and blessed because justice would be so much worse. It's just a way to excuse all badness and credit God with any goodness.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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12/13/2015 9:03:07 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

God gives mercy fairly. Every righteous person gets mercy and unrighteous people don"t. God is fair, because that happens with same principle to all.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,208
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12/13/2015 9:50:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:03:07 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

God gives mercy fairly. Every righteous person gets mercy and unrighteous people don"t. God is fair, because that happens with same principle to all.

If by fair you mean allowing some to receive exemption from rules, and others not, then sure. Righteous or unrighteous shouldn't matter if they have committed the same crime, stating one person gets a different sentence than another for the same thing is decidedly unjust.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/13/2015 9:57:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

So you favour fixed punishments in a human judicial system, heedless of circumstance, social impacts and the prospect of rehabilitation? Or do you favour a compassionate, wise approach, that supports rehabilitation, limits the social costs of punishment, yet still effectively deters future criminality?

For myself, I prefer the latter.

However, it strikes me that none of that has any bearing on theological claims, since a modern notion of justice requires it to be visible, accountable, contestable and to balance individual and community interests; while the 'justice' promoted by Christian theology -- executed as it is by a supposedly infinitely patient, invulnerable being with infinite resources -- bears no resemblance at all to anything I can recognise as just or merciful or even wise.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/14/2015 10:19:16 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 2:26:44 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 12:21:51 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/13/2015 12:13:23 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

I'll agree with this, but I'll add that justice is also concerned with vindication, protection, and reparations for victims.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

This so far is logical. In fact, this apparent conundrum is one of the reasons why Christianity became so popular. God's solution for it is so startling, so beautiful, so wondrous, that people the world over, for thousands of years, have been mesmerized at the sheer eloquence of it.

A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

True, in the sense you have set up.

Now I guess you could argue that a God or person could be both just and merciful just not to the same person, some people get justice some get mercy.

But if that be the case what would one say about such a person or God ? that they are wholly/always just or merciful ? well clearly not, it would be a well sometimes they are just sometimes they are merciful.

And if that be the case you can't say in such an absolute sense that such a God is just or merciful.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is just in such an absolute sense is false.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is merciful in such an absolute sense is false.

In general I agree with you here, but there is a small fallacy you fall to. When the Bible says God is merciful, it does not mean that God is always merciful to everyone. In the Bible God literally says that sometimes He will NOT have mercy. He will NOT excuse. So it is illogical to interpret the phrase "God is merciful" in a way the Bible does not, but yet hold the Bible to your private interpretation of the phrase.

Another thing, God is always just. H is never unjust.

Agree ? Disagree ? Want to shove a ferret down your pants ?

Generally agree. Bottle of either and I'm game.

I think you contradicted yourself,......

Really? That would be highly unusual.

...you seem to agree with the concepts and logic but at the end say....."God is always just".



It seems you missed whole portions of my post.

1. God is always just, but not always merciful. God can be unmerciful without being immoral, but cannot be unjust without being immoral. God is always just when he uses justice. He does not always need to use justice.

2. God having the quality of mercy does not mean He must always be merciful. Why are you requiring the Bible to take on your personal interpretation? Why not accept what the Bible means for its own doctrine?

No, one act of mercy means God is not always just.

There is no reason to accept this comment as true except on faith. I have no faith in you. God always administers justice when justice is required by morality. But the excersize of mercy does not necessarily negate justice.

Well this just shows your not thinking, oh but God, oh but God........

I defined what I meant by justice.......

I defined what I meant by mercy............

Where is the error in the definition ?

Where is the error in the reasoning ?

Where is the error in the logic ?

An act of mercy can be just. As I told you, justice is not synonymous with punishment. You artificially restricted the definition of justice and mercy and are trying to force the concept to fit your restrictions.
....
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
ethang5
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12/14/2015 1:42:05 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 10:19:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 12/13/2015 2:26:44 PM, ethang5 wrote:

There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

I'll agree with this, but I'll add that justice is also concerned with vindication, protection, and reparations for victims.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

This so far is logical. In fact, this apparent conundrum is one of the reasons why Christianity became so popular. God's solution for it is so startling, so beautiful, so wondrous, that people the world over, for thousands of years, have been mesmerized at the sheer eloquence of it.

A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

True, in the sense you have set up.

Now I guess you could argue that a God or person could be both just and merciful just not to the same person, some people get justice some get mercy.

But if that be the case what would one say about such a person or God ? that they are wholly/always just or merciful ? well clearly not, it would be a well sometimes they are just sometimes they are merciful.

And if that be the case you can't say in such an absolute sense that such a God is just or merciful.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is just in such an absolute sense is false.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is merciful in such an absolute sense is false.

In general I agree with you here, but there is a small fallacy you fall to. When the Bible says God is merciful, it does not mean that God is always merciful to everyone. In the Bible God literally says that sometimes He will NOT have mercy. He will NOT excuse. So it is illogical to interpret the phrase "God is merciful" in a way the Bible does not, but yet hold the Bible to your private interpretation of the phrase.

Another thing, God is always just. H is never unjust.

Agree ? Disagree ? Want to shove a ferret down your pants ?

Generally agree. Bottle of either and I'm game.

I think you contradicted yourself,......

Really? That would be highly unusual.

...you seem to agree with the concepts and logic but at the end say....."God is always just".

It seems you missed whole portions of my post.

1. God is always just, but not always merciful. God can be unmerciful without being immoral, but cannot be unjust without being immoral. God is always just when he uses justice. He does not always need to use justice.

2. God having the quality of mercy does not mean He must always be merciful. Why are you requiring the Bible to take on your personal interpretation? Why not accept what the Bible means for its own doctrine?

No, one act of mercy means God is not always just.

There is no reason to accept this comment as true except on faith. I have no faith in you. God always administers justice when justice is required by morality. But the excersize of mercy does not necessarily negate justice.

Well this just shows your not thinking, oh but God, oh but God........

Sorry, then I don't know what to say to you. If you insist that God MUST always show mercy at all times, then you aren't talking about the God of the Bible. I have no beef with you if you aren't talking about the real God.

Merciful at all times to everyone isn't the Bible's description of God. He Himself says He is not always merciful. So make of that what you will.

I defined what I meant by justice.......

And I told you that the Bible means MORE than that when it talks about justice. Are you insisting that only YOUR narrow definition of justice be used to evaluate God's justice?

I defined what I meant by mercy............

And I told you that mercy does not ALWAYS negate justice. Are you insisting that only YOUR narrow definition of mercy be used to evaluate God's mercy?

Where is the error in the definition ?

It isn't complete. It doesn't match the definition used in the Bible.

Where is the error in the reasoning ?

To properly evaluate the argument that God of the Bible cannot be both merciful and just, one must use definitions of mercy and justice used in the Bible. Using other private definitions are the realm of either the deceitful or the stupid. Neither of which I think you are.

You have defined justice and mercy narrowly so that they are completely incompatible, and then used that trumped up "incompatibility" to say there is a contradiction in the claim that God is both just and merciful.

Where is the error in the logic ?

1. You think your narrow definition of justice and mercy are the totality of their meaning.
2. You jump to illogical and unwarranted conclusions.
a. For God to be called merciful, He must be merciful at all times to everyone.
b. Every act of mercy necessarily negates justice.

See how easy it is to answer questions when your world-view is light?

He who the son sets free is free indeed.
GrittyWorm
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12/14/2015 3:24:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

A person receiving both what they deserve and less than what they deserve is a contradiction.

Now I guess you could argue that a God or person could be both just and merciful just not to the same person, some people get justice some get mercy.

But if that be the case what would one say about such a person or God ? that they are wholly/always just or merciful ? well clearly not, it would be a well sometimes they are just sometimes they are merciful.

And if that be the case you can't say in such an absolute sense that such a God is just or merciful.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is just in such an absolute sense is false.

As such if this be the case the claim that God is merciful in such an absolute sense is false.

Agree ? Disagree ? Want to shove a ferret down your pants ?

I am generally just and merciful. You seem to have a belief that life is black and white. It is not. Justice is when one does wickedly, continues to be wicked, will not turn from their wickedness, is not merciful, is not forgiving, and is not empathetic or caring towards others. After a life of this behavior and proving fully what they really are, justice is acted upon.

When a person does wrong, sincerely fights to change the behavior, is true of heart in caring for others on the inside as an action, to destroy or inprison them is not just. Sometimes mercy is what is just. To "give someone exactly what they dished out" after they completely changed the behavior and pattern is not judtice at all. Sometimes mercy = justice.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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12/14/2015 3:57:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:24:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:

When a person does wrong, sincerely fights to change the behavior, is true of heart in caring for others on the inside as an action, to destroy or inprison them is not just. Sometimes mercy is what is just. To "give someone exactly what they dished out" after they completely changed the behavior and pattern is not judtice at all. Sometimes mercy = justice.
I know many fine feathered friends
but their friendliness depends on how you do.
They know many sure fired ways
to find out the one who pays
and how you do.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
GrittyWorm
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12/14/2015 4:06:32 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:57:24 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:24:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:

When a person does wrong, sincerely fights to change the behavior, is true of heart in caring for others on the inside as an action, to destroy or inprison them is not just. Sometimes mercy is what is just. To "give someone exactly what they dished out" after they completely changed the behavior and pattern is not judtice at all. Sometimes mercy = justice.
I know many fine feathered friends
but their friendliness depends on how you do.
They know many sure fired ways
to find out the one who pays
and how you do.

What I got from that was "I know a lot of birds with mythological powers, and we know what ypu are up to. Us flocks of ravens watch your every move. We watch your thoughts. We know when you are sleeping. We know when you're awake. We know if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake. Never more... quote the raven."
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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12/14/2015 4:10:09 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 4:06:32 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:57:24 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:24:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:

When a person does wrong, sincerely fights to change the behavior, is true of heart in caring for others on the inside as an action, to destroy or inprison them is not just. Sometimes mercy is what is just. To "give someone exactly what they dished out" after they completely changed the behavior and pattern is not judtice at all. Sometimes mercy = justice.
I know many fine feathered friends
but their friendliness depends on how you do.
They know many sure fired ways
to find out the one who pays
and how you do.

What I got from that was "I know a lot of birds with mythological powers, and we know what ypu are up to. Us flocks of ravens watch your every move. We watch your thoughts. We know when you are sleeping. We know when you're awake. We know if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake. Never more... quote the raven."

That is precisely what I thought you would get, thanks for not disappointing me. LMFAO
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
GrittyWorm
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12/14/2015 4:35:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 4:10:09 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/14/2015 4:06:32 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:57:24 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:24:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:

When a person does wrong, sincerely fights to change the behavior, is true of heart in caring for others on the inside as an action, to destroy or inprison them is not just. Sometimes mercy is what is just. To "give someone exactly what they dished out" after they completely changed the behavior and pattern is not judtice at all. Sometimes mercy = justice.
I know many fine feathered friends
but their friendliness depends on how you do.
They know many sure fired ways
to find out the one who pays
and how you do.

What I got from that was "I know a lot of birds with mythological powers, and we know what ypu are up to. Us flocks of ravens watch your every move. We watch your thoughts. We know when you are sleeping. We know when you're awake. We know if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake. Never more... quote the raven."

That is precisely what I thought you would get, thanks for not disappointing me. LMFAO

So you were thinking of Edgar Allen Poe, Santa Clause, and flocks of ravens? I must be a prophet since I read your thoughts exactly.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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12/14/2015 6:37:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:16:16 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
There is an argument that a God or who ever can't be both just and mercy. The argument goes as follows..........

Justice = Person receives what they deserve, no more, no less.

Mercy = Person receives less than what they deserve

So you see the problem, either a person is punished and gets what they deserve and we call it just, or they get less and call it mercy BUT it can't be both.

Mercy is given in the case of what? What"s your point? If one is in prison and there is something he could do that would condemn him to prison. What"s going to happen to him, other than he would be in prison.

All men die, all men are condemned to death. So what are you talking about? A long or short existence in this flesh above ground? Wait long enough and you"ll find yourself receiving the same as the one who murdered the week ruthlessly and was put to death. Just what is justice to you? And would that be in your judgement or someone else's judgement, or a agreed judgement of many?

What is mercy to you anyway? If someone is in debit up to their eyeballs, isn"t the forgiveness of their debit mercy?

If you noticed, all those who receive the Mercy of God that delivers their souls, still loss this life in the flesh. What was condemned is still the recipient of the judgement, but that which is born of God (born againers) God will not condemn because God"s Spirit in the born againer like a child, is of God Himself. Therefore the Life that is given in Christ isn't condemned by God. Verified by the resurrection of Christ who lived a life that was condemned by men.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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12/14/2015 9:33:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:50:13 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
If by fair you mean allowing some to receive exemption from rules,

But it is no exception of the rule, if the rule is: forgiveness is for the righteous. For unrighteous, forgiveness is not useful, because unrighteous continues in sin and wrong doing. Or what do you think, is it really helpful, if sin is forgiven and person right after that again sin?