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How is Jesus any diffrent than Hercules

Darkk
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12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?
dee-em
Posts: 6,461
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12/14/2015 4:18:03 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

And the follow-up question. How could a devout Jewish girl have a willing sexual interlude with a god when she was in a monotheistic religion which considered such pagan beliefs and (alleged) practices to be pure blasphemy?
HardRockHallelujah
Posts: 163
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12/14/2015 4:53:11 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?
It is no wonder you would think that, for you don't understand what it is that we Christians believe. First off, Christians do not say that Jesus is "the child of a god". We say that Jesus is the Son of God PURELY in a metaphorical sense. God didn't have intercourse with Mary in order to produce an offspring demigod. That is a distortion of the Christian doctrine of the incarnation.

The Christian doctrine of the incarnation is that the 2nd eternal person of the Trinity took on human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, born to the Virgin Mary, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ isn't a demigod, but rather a FULLY Divine person who has taken on a 2nd nature.

The Hypostatic Union states that in the one person of Jesus Christ exists two natures - Divine and Human. Jesus is fully Divine and fully human; this can be seen in Paul's words:

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form." (Colossians 2:9)

According to our belief, Jesus Christ is Eternal. He didn't come into existence at his incarnation, but rather took on human flesh at that point in time - no hybrid of Divine and Human, but rather, all the attributes of Deity and all the attributes of humanity exist in the one person of Christ simultaneously - also known as the Communicatio idiomatum. How this all works is ultimately a mystery, but nonetheless is taught by the Bible so I believe it and that settles it for me.

This is unlike what the Pagans believe about Gods having intercourse and giving birth to 'demigods' or whatever you want to call it.

So don't misrepresent our beliefs if you are going to attack it.
HardRockHallelujah
Posts: 163
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12/14/2015 4:57:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I made a mistake - for the Son of God. What I meant to say was when we say Jesus is the Son of God, we mean that Jesus is the Unique Son of God (unlike the many Sons of God of the Jewish Bible). Jesus distinguishes himself as the Son while calling the other prophets servants - to refute the idea that Jesus being called the Son of God doesn't prove his Deity.

Quite plainly, the way the New Testament calls Jesus the Son is to prove his deity.
Skepticalone
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12/14/2015 5:28:30 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 4:57:01 AM, HardRockHallelujah wrote:
I made a mistake - for the Son of God. What I meant to say was when we say Jesus is the Son of God, we mean that Jesus is the Unique Son of God (unlike the many Sons of God of the Jewish Bible). Jesus distinguishes himself as the Son while calling the other prophets servants - to refute the idea that Jesus being called the Son of God doesn't prove his Deity.

Quite plainly, the way the New Testament calls Jesus the Son is to prove his deity.

I think a good case could be made for Jesus being adopted by God according to Mark, and perhaps all of the synoptic gospels. After all, if Jesus were merely one part of the godhead and equal to the Father and the Holy spirit, then he should know what the Father knows. However, Jesus tells us the Father has exclusive information:

Mark 13:32

32 But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
HardRockHallelujah
Posts: 163
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12/14/2015 6:50:57 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 5:28:30 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/14/2015 4:57:01 AM, HardRockHallelujah wrote:
I made a mistake - for the Son of God. What I meant to say was when we say Jesus is the Son of God, we mean that Jesus is the Unique Son of God (unlike the many Sons of God of the Jewish Bible). Jesus distinguishes himself as the Son while calling the other prophets servants - to refute the idea that Jesus being called the Son of God doesn't prove his Deity.

Quite plainly, the way the New Testament calls Jesus the Son is to prove his deity.

I think a good case could be made for Jesus being adopted by God according to Mark, and perhaps all of the synoptic gospels. After all, if Jesus were merely one part of the godhead and equal to the Father and the Holy spirit, then he should know what the Father knows. However, Jesus tells us the Father has exclusive information:

Mark 13:32

32 But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Look at the text closely, Jesus distinguishes himself as the Son above everyone else, and the angels; clearly a very high view that Jesus had of himself. He isn't merely claiming to be a Son in this adoptive sense. He is claiming to be above everyone (humans), including the Angels; showing you Jesus did think of himself as the Divine Son.

As far as how Jesus was ignorant of the day or hour is explained by the doctrine of Christ's incarnation. Paul says in Philippians 2:6-7 that Christ TEMPORARILY laid aside some of his Divine attributes which means that while on Earth he wouldn't have access to certain information - such as when the day or the hour is. He still knew when it was, but because he laid aside some of his infinite knowledge temporarily while he was on Earth, he apparently did not know that information and so he said that he does not know the day or the hour while he was on Earth as the incarnate one.

With that aside, Mark most certainly does not portray Jesus as an "adoptive son".

Two passages to prove this:

"What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are"the Holy One of God." (Mark 1:24)

While human beings are looking at Jesus and not seeing anything special, the Demons on the other hand know exactly who he is - they were scared because they feared that Jesus has come to destroy them. Why would they be scared if he was simply "an adoptive son"? For one reason - they realized that Jesus was the Son in a Divine sense; and thus had the authority to judge them and destroy them.

"And he began to speak to them in parables. "A man planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a pit for the winepress and built a tower, and leased it to tenants and went into another country. When the season came, he sent a servant to the tenants to get from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. And they took him and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Again he sent to them another servant, and they struck him on the head and treated him shamefully. And he sent another, and him they killed. And so with many others: some they beat, and some they killed. He had still one other, a beloved son. Finally he sent him to them, saying, "They will respect my son."" (Mark 12:1-6)

Here Jesus distinguishes the prophets of God as "servants" and himself as "the Son". Quite clearly even in Mark Jesus had a very high view of himself as the Son (more than an adoptive sense).
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/14/2015 9:46:18 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

It became the state faith of a powerful empire, and being an absolutist, monotheistic faith, offered a superb theological excuse for the nationalistic expansionism of successive kingdoms and empires. Thus, historically, to contest the Jesus myth was to oppose nationalistic destiny and claims of the right of rule -- a dangerous and often lethal stance for an intellectual dissident to take.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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12/14/2015 11:26:24 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

The stories surrounding Jesus are no more credible than any other fairy tale.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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12/14/2015 1:47:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

Lol maybe you don't understand what spirituality is and what Jesus taught? Believe it or not "mythology" and spirituality are not one and the same! one is applicable the other is only readable, one is an education the other is a story. People utilize this source for spiritual understanding and learning, as it is a testimonial/historical work, not a mythological work.

It's the contents of what is being read, not just the characters. Spirituality is timeless and relevant to us now, that is why Christianity exists, which is merely following Jesus by walking in Spirit.

If you want an answer as to why Christianity is unique I posted in this topic below to begin to illustrate that.
http://www.debate.org...
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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12/14/2015 2:37:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
you snoddlers are comical with your Mighty Mouse v.s. Superman, Santa Claus v.s. the Tooth Fairy, Pepsi v.s. Coca~Cola or the red team v.s. the blue team.

you that choose to be confused are so busy chaising your different versions of make believe and pretend realities that you never figure out the DEEP ROOT of real reality as you try your best to ignore and reject ANYTHING that gets in the way of your lazy daydreaming and scheming distractions of escape.

you turd puppets are of the level of horse apples and I AM the god that sits on the apple cart.

why does a god such as I AM play with you sort?

it's what Jesus would do and it's the most advanced scientific theory that is possible as the light of honest truth exposes the intelligence of the wanna bee professor from Gilligan's Island types. They can make batteries for the am radio from coconuts, but they can't figure out how to patch a 1 foot square hole on the SS MINNOW.

I AM much like the Jesus character as well as the Hercules character.

much like Clark Kent and Superman.

don't make me take off my glasses or send Lois Lane after your story.........
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
ZacGraphics
Posts: 23
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12/14/2015 2:51:12 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

Jesus was much more than a Greek myth. Jesus is seen as a myth because His life and how He lived it is just absurd. Another perspective is that Jesus never existed because He was a character of the Bible. Everyone knows the Bible is not credible, right?

What amazes me is that the Bible prophesied events over and over again, and yet skeptics rule out the Bible as "not credible", while some claim other ancient, religious texts as "credible". So, why should we believe that Jesus existed as opposed to Hercules? It wasn't just the Bible that claimed the existence of Jesus. Many other texts, that aren't even written by Christian authors, prove the existence of Jesus by correlating with the Bible. Pretty cool.

Furthermore, you state yourself, Jesus was born to a virgin. This has never happened in History, and cannot be ignored. The way the Bible is written makes apparent that it is not a myth or legend. Part of this is exactly why Jesus is so controversial even today, and why Hercules is not. The story of Hercules is pushed to the side as myth, and the life of Jesus gets brain cells to work.
Have you ever heard the story about the hero dying for the villain?
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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12/14/2015 3:00:58 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 2:51:12 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
What amazes me is that the Bible prophesied events over and over again,
Evidence required of both the prophesy and it's fulfillment.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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12/14/2015 3:08:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 4:53:11 AM, HardRockHallelujah wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?
It is no wonder you would think that, for you don't understand what it is that we Christians believe. First off, Christians do not say that Jesus is "the child of a god". We say that Jesus is the Son of God PURELY in a metaphorical sense. God didn't have intercourse with Mary in order to produce an offspring demigod. That is a distortion of the Christian doctrine of the incarnation.

The Christian doctrine of the incarnation is that the 2nd eternal person of the Trinity took on human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, born to the Virgin Mary, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ isn't a demigod, but rather a FULLY Divine person who has taken on a 2nd nature.

The Hypostatic Union states that in the one person of Jesus Christ exists two natures - Divine and Human. Jesus is fully Divine and fully human; this can be seen in Paul's words:

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form." (Colossians 2:9)

According to our belief, Jesus Christ is Eternal. He didn't come into existence at his incarnation, but rather took on human flesh at that point in time - no hybrid of Divine and Human, but rather, all the attributes of Deity and all the attributes of humanity exist in the one person of Christ simultaneously - also known as the Communicatio idiomatum. How this all works is ultimately a mystery, but nonetheless is taught by the Bible so I believe it and that settles it for me.

This is unlike what the Pagans believe about Gods having intercourse and giving birth to 'demigods' or whatever you want to call it.

So don't misrepresent our beliefs if you are going to attack it.

That is not the birth story of the trinity. God and tbe Holy Spirit entered the Virgin Mary and tbe two came out with Jesus. Thus forming the trinity. Jesus always gave homage to the two. God and the HS.
ZacGraphics
Posts: 23
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12/14/2015 3:10:05 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:00:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/14/2015 2:51:12 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
What amazes me is that the Bible prophesied events over and over again,
Evidence required of both the prophesy and it's fulfillment.

The death of a Messiah.

Around 400 years, long before the method of crucifixion was even intended, King David and the prophet Zechariah both perfectly described the way the Messiah would be executed (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). They stated that the body would be pierced, and no bones would be broken. When the death of Jesus actually happens, we see that this is precisely what happens. Jesus Christ is nailed to a cross, and no bones are broken.

Chances of this happening? 1 in 10^13.
Have you ever heard the story about the hero dying for the villain?
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/14/2015 3:11:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

Because Jesus is a historical figure according to even Atheist historians. History shows us a religion grew from his life. The religion still exists today and...
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/14/2015 3:13:57 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Some have faith no matter what. But it's not blind based on nothing.

Prophecy:

Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.

"ISIS beheads 21 Christians"

http://www.ijreview.com...

--

A few things the Bible says concerning the end of days and the condition of man:

2 Peter 3:4
They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our fathers' days, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."

2 Peter 3:3
Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

Matthew 24:6 - And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet

Matthew 24:7 - For nation shall rise against nation, and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Timothy 3:1 - 3:5
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.

Psychiatrist says changes are evidence of society becoming 'more selfish'
It's" not just your imagination " young people really are getting ruder.

Today"s 18 to 34-year-olds are less likely to say hello to neighbours or open the door for the elderly than those aged over 55.

They are also more reluctant to give a cup of tea to builders or tip the postman at Christmas.

Proof: A study has shown that younger people are ruder, with those aged 18-34 less likely to open the door for the elderly or tip the postman at Christmas than those aged over 55
Research showed the age group were 23 per cent less likely, on average, to carry out common courtesies than over-55s.

Neighbours were ignored by nearly 35 per cent of the group compared with only 15 per cent of over-55s.

Youngsters were also 18 per cent less likely to open a door for a woman or an elderly person, 17 per cent less willing to give up their seat on public transport for a pregnant woman and 12 per cent less likely to offer it to an elderly passenger.

Selfish: Psychiatrist Dr Clive Sherlock said the changes in behaviour were evidence of society becoming more selfish and a 'lack of respect' and that technology was encouraging people to be more 'involved in themselves'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

--

Jesus hystorical?

The consensus among historians, even Atheist historians, is that Jesus did exist.

http://www.is-there-a-god.info...

http://www.strangenotions.com...

--

The Big Bang
So the very beginning of the universe remains pretty murky. Scientists think they can pick the story up at about 10 to the minus 36 seconds " one trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second " after the Big Bang.
At that point, they believe, the universe underwent an extremely brief and dramatic period of inflation, expanding faster than the speed of light. It doubled in size perhaps 100 times or more, all within the span of a few tiny fractions of a second.

http://m.space.com...

"The Biblical creation"

Genesis 1:2
The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

1)Genesis 1:3
Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

2)Genesis 1:4
And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness.

Isaiah 51:13
You have forgotten the LORD, your Maker, who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth.
miloisqueer
Posts: 40
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12/14/2015 3:14:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:10:05 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:00:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/14/2015 2:51:12 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
What amazes me is that the Bible prophesied events over and over again,
Evidence required of both the prophesy and it's fulfillment.

The death of a Messiah.

Around 400 years, long before the method of crucifixion was even intended, King David and the prophet Zechariah both perfectly described the way the Messiah would be executed (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). They stated that the body would be pierced, and no bones would be broken. When the death of Jesus actually happens, we see that this is precisely what happens. Jesus Christ is nailed to a cross, and no bones are broken.

Chances of this happening? 1 in 10^13.

Right, because being stabbed/skewered on a sword couldn't fit that either. That's no prophecy--That's a lucky guess. If you'll notice, hundreds of thousands of "prophecies" exist that never came true. This is explained away by them not being divinely inspired. Just because someone guesses something that happens to be correct doesn't make it a prophecy.
Religion is capable of driving people to such dangerous folly that faith seems to me to qualify as a kind of mental illness. -Richard Dawkins
dhardage
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12/14/2015 3:17:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

Jesus had a much better publicist and promotion system and got government backing by telling everyone that God gave their kings the right to rule them so just sit down, shut up, and do what you're told.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/14/2015 3:32:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:17:40 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

Jesus had a much better publicist and promotion system and got government backing by telling everyone that God gave their kings the right to rule them so just sit down, shut up, and do what you're told.

You've characterized Jesus in a way completely incosistant to his Biblical description. Christianity was fought from all sides early on. Christianity should have been snuffed out. The Jewish and Roman authority came after Jesus' followers and by all logical thought, they should have denounced a belief in him. The early church is known for being harshly persecuted and martyrism. Remember the colliseums? Lions vs. Christians? Remember the rounding up Christians for crucifixion. It was suicide in that day to believe in Jesus, yet people were choosing to die rather than denounce their faith? Why? They already had a religion that preexisted Jesus. Why die for him? Would you die for something you don't truely and deeply believe in? That the belief even still exists is miraculous.
GrittyWorm
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12/14/2015 3:32:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:17:40 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

Jesus had a much better publicist and promotion system and got government backing by telling everyone that God gave their kings the right to rule them so just sit down, shut up, and do what you're told.

You've characterized Jesus in a way completely incosistant to his Biblical description. Christianity was fought from all sides early on. Christianity should have been snuffed out. The Jewish and Roman authority came after Jesus' followers and by all logical thought, they should have denounced a belief in him. The early church is known for being harshly persecuted and martyrism. Remember the colliseums? Lions vs. Christians? Remember the rounding up Christians for crucifixion. It was suicide in that day to believe in Jesus, yet people were choosing to die rather than denounce their faith? Why? They already had a religion that preexisted Jesus. Why die for him? Would you die for something you don't truely and deeply believe in? That the belief even still exists is miraculous.
GrittyWorm
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12/14/2015 3:40:19 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
A specific writing in A.D. 196, Tertullian said, "The Christians are to blame for every public disaster and every misfortune that befalls the people. If the Tiber rises to the walls, if the Nile fails to rise and flood the fields, if the sky withholds its rain, if there is earthquake or famine or plague, straightway the cry arises, "Throw the Christians to the lions!"
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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12/14/2015 3:40:57 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:32:28 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:17:40 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

Jesus had a much better publicist and promotion system and got government backing by telling everyone that God gave their kings the right to rule them so just sit down, shut up, and do what you're told.

You've characterized Jesus in a way completely incosistant to his Biblical description. Christianity was fought from all sides early on. Christianity should have been snuffed out. The Jewish and Roman authority came after Jesus' followers and by all logical thought, they should have denounced a belief in him. The early church is known for being harshly persecuted and martyrism. Remember the colliseums? Lions vs. Christians? Remember the rounding up Christians for crucifixion. It was suicide in that day to believe in Jesus, yet people were choosing to die rather than denounce their faith? Why? They already had a religion that preexisted Jesus. Why die for him? Would you die for something you don't truely and deeply believe in? That the belief even still exists is miraculous.

Read your history. It got used by a Roman emperor in an attempt to shore up his failing empire and it was used by kings in the Middle Ages to justify their absolute rule and the misery of the serfs and commoners because it was their 'divine right' to rule. The Jesus talked about in the New Testament was a socialist, believing that everyone should care for everyone else and treat every other person as a brother. That's a far cry from what came about in the name of God and Jesus over the centuries.
GrittyWorm
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12/14/2015 3:44:23 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
The earliest Christian martyrs, tortured and killed by Roman officials enforcing worship of the emperors, won so much fame among their co-religionists that others wished to imitate them to such an extent that a group presented themselves to the governor of Asia, declaring themselves to be Christians, and calling on him to do his duty and put them to death. He executed a few, but as the rest demanded it as well, he responded, exasperated, "You wretches, if you want to die, you have cliffs to leap from and ropes to hang by." This attitude was sufficiently widespread for Church authorities to begin to distinguish sharply "between solicited martyrdom and the more traditional kind that came as a result of persecution".
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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12/14/2015 4:03:22 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Hercules couldn't fly but allegedly Jesus could.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
GrittyWorm
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12/14/2015 4:16:48 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 4:03:22 PM, bulproof wrote:
Hercules couldn't fly but allegedly Jesus could.

You nailed it. He could do a lot of things that Hercules could not do. Examples: raise the dead, cause the blind to see, the deaf to hear, the dumb to speak, rise from the dead himself, take away sins, take a detached ear. Put it back on the person healed. And they be able to hear. Ascend into the sky, heal leppers, turn water into wine, walk on water, cause the storms to obey his voice on command, exorcise demons, read minds, forgive sins, cause the crippled to walk, heal a boy without seeing him by giving the command, speak to the dead, command the angels, blind someone after death and ressurection. Speak to people after death, see the future... I can continue. Shall we?
desmac
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12/14/2015 4:16:58 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:10:05 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:00:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/14/2015 2:51:12 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
What amazes me is that the Bible prophesied events over and over again,
Evidence required of both the prophesy and it's fulfillment.

The death of a Messiah.

Around 400 years, long before the method of crucifixion was even intended, King David and the prophet Zechariah both perfectly described the way the Messiah would be executed (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). They stated that the body would be pierced, and no bones would be broken. When the death of Jesus actually happens, we see that this is precisely what happens. Jesus Christ is nailed to a cross, and no bones are broken.

Chances of this happening? 1 in 10^13.

You got any X-rays proving no broken bones?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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12/14/2015 4:25:42 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 6:50:57 AM, HardRockHallelujah wrote:
At 12/14/2015 5:28:30 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/14/2015 4:57:01 AM, HardRockHallelujah wrote:
I made a mistake - for the Son of God. What I meant to say was when we say Jesus is the Son of God, we mean that Jesus is the Unique Son of God (unlike the many Sons of God of the Jewish Bible). Jesus distinguishes himself as the Son while calling the other prophets servants - to refute the idea that Jesus being called the Son of God doesn't prove his Deity.

Quite plainly, the way the New Testament calls Jesus the Son is to prove his deity.

I think a good case could be made for Jesus being adopted by God according to Mark, and perhaps all of the synoptic gospels. After all, if Jesus were merely one part of the godhead and equal to the Father and the Holy spirit, then he should know what the Father knows. However, Jesus tells us the Father has exclusive information:

Mark 13:32

32 But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Look at the text closely, Jesus distinguishes himself as the Son above everyone else, and the angels; clearly a very high view that Jesus had of himself.

Clearly, Jesus represents himself as something distinct from angels, but I don't know that we could say that is something "higher".

He isn't merely claiming to be a Son in this adoptive sense. He is claiming to be above everyone (humans), including the Angels; showing you Jesus did think of himself as the Divine Son.

As far as how Jesus was ignorant of the day or hour is explained by the doctrine of Christ's incarnation. Paul says in Philippians 2:6-7 that Christ TEMPORARILY laid aside some of his Divine attributes which means that while on Earth he wouldn't have access to certain information - such as when the day or the hour is. He still knew when it was, but because he laid aside some of his infinite knowledge temporarily while he was on Earth, he apparently did not know that information and so he said that he does not know the day or the hour while he was on Earth as the incarnate one.

It could be argued that Paul has a different christology than the authors of the gospels. That is irrelevant to my claim.

With that aside, Mark most certainly does not portray Jesus as an "adoptive son".

Two passages to prove this:

"What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are"the Holy One of God." (Mark 1:24)

While human beings are looking at Jesus and not seeing anything special, the Demons on the other hand know exactly who he is - they were scared because they feared that Jesus has come to destroy them. Why would they be scared if he was simply "an adoptive son"? For one reason - they realized that Jesus was the Son in a Divine sense; and thus had the authority to judge them and destroy them.

Holy one of God could be referring to a messenger of god, a prophet, a saint. Even David in the OT was called "Holy one".

"And he began to speak to them in parables. "A man planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a pit for the winepress and built a tower, and leased it to tenants and went into another country. When the season came, he sent a servant to the tenants to get from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. And they took him and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Again he sent to them another servant, and they struck him on the head and treated him shamefully. And he sent another, and him they killed. And so with many others: some they beat, and some they killed. He had still one other, a beloved son. Finally he sent him to them, saying, "They will respect my son."" (Mark 12:1-6)

Here Jesus distinguishes the prophets of God as "servants" and himself as "the Son". Quite clearly even in Mark Jesus had a very high view of himself as the Son (more than an adoptive sense).

An adoptive son is still a son. What purpose does baptism serve if the being is already without sin? (I'm on my phone, so I hope you'll excuse the short reply)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
DanMGTOW
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12/14/2015 4:51:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 4:53:11 AM, HardRockHallelujah wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?
It is no wonder you would think that, for you don't understand what it is that we Christians believe. First off, Christians do not say that Jesus is "the child of a god". We say that Jesus is the Son of God PURELY in a metaphorical sense. God didn't have intercourse with Mary in order to produce an offspring demigod. That is a distortion of the Christian doctrine of the incarnation.

The Christian doctrine of the incarnation is that the 2nd eternal person of the Trinity took on human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, born to the Virgin Mary, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ isn't a demigod, but rather a FULLY Divine person who has taken on a 2nd nature.

The Hypostatic Union states that in the one person of Jesus Christ exists two natures - Divine and Human. Jesus is fully Divine and fully human; this can be seen in Paul's words:

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form." (Colossians 2:9)

According to our belief, Jesus Christ is Eternal. He didn't come into existence at his incarnation, but rather took on human flesh at that point in time - no hybrid of Divine and Human, but rather, all the attributes of Deity and all the attributes of humanity exist in the one person of Christ simultaneously - also known as the Communicatio idiomatum. How this all works is ultimately a mystery, but nonetheless is taught by the Bible so I believe it and that settles it for me.

This is unlike what the Pagans believe about Gods having intercourse and giving birth to 'demigods' or whatever you want to call it.

So don't misrepresent our beliefs if you are going to attack it.

it's too bad you god doesn't exist, or your god might be able to help us understand it
so why do you believe the legends about jesus are actually true?
there are too many errors and flaws in the bible for me to take it seriously
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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12/14/2015 5:11:08 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?

Duh. Its the ring.
HardRockHallelujah
Posts: 163
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12/14/2015 10:10:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/14/2015 4:51:20 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 12/14/2015 4:53:11 AM, HardRockHallelujah wrote:
At 12/14/2015 3:50:16 AM, Darkk wrote:
The Virgin Mary gave birth a to the child of a god, that makes her offspring a demigod, what make the story of Christ anymore believable than the story of Hercules or Perseus?
It is no wonder you would think that, for you don't understand what it is that we Christians believe. First off, Christians do not say that Jesus is "the child of a god". We say that Jesus is the Son of God PURELY in a metaphorical sense. God didn't have intercourse with Mary in order to produce an offspring demigod. That is a distortion of the Christian doctrine of the incarnation.

The Christian doctrine of the incarnation is that the 2nd eternal person of the Trinity took on human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, born to the Virgin Mary, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ isn't a demigod, but rather a FULLY Divine person who has taken on a 2nd nature.

The Hypostatic Union states that in the one person of Jesus Christ exists two natures - Divine and Human. Jesus is fully Divine and fully human; this can be seen in Paul's words:

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form." (Colossians 2:9)

According to our belief, Jesus Christ is Eternal. He didn't come into existence at his incarnation, but rather took on human flesh at that point in time - no hybrid of Divine and Human, but rather, all the attributes of Deity and all the attributes of humanity exist in the one person of Christ simultaneously - also known as the Communicatio idiomatum. How this all works is ultimately a mystery, but nonetheless is taught by the Bible so I believe it and that settles it for me.

This is unlike what the Pagans believe about Gods having intercourse and giving birth to 'demigods' or whatever you want to call it.

So don't misrepresent our beliefs if you are going to attack it.

it's too bad you god doesn't exist, or your god might be able to help us understand it
so why do you believe the legends about jesus are actually true?
there are too many errors and flaws in the bible for me to take it seriously
The God of the Bible doesn't exist? And what exactly made you come to that conclusion?
Legends about Jesus? Yeah, I am suppose to believe there are legends about Jesus in the Bible based upon an Atheist who can't support anything he is stating. The genre of the Gospels are NOT mythology, that is a radical view even among skeptical scholars. The genre of the Gospels according to the majority view is Greco-Roman biographies.
Errors and flaws in the Bible? Maybe instead of making claims out of thin air actually give me examples so I can actually respond to you.