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"Christian Brainwash"

ZacGraphics
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12/15/2015 3:00:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Hello folks of DDO! As I've been procrastinating Spanish homework, I've been thinking about this one topic that I've seen quite a few Atheists bring up (not necessarily on this site in particular). That topic being: "Are Christians just products of a religion that forces people into believing outlandish claims?"

I'd like to bring up a few mild points that may expand your peripheral vision for this subject. Many Atheists think that those who grew up in the Church were "brainwashed" into believing in what they believe today. I can respect the points the said Atheists bring up. Church can be misconceived this way, teaching children new religious songs, telling them to pray before bed every night, and telling them every Sunday morning that God loves them. This can be seen as a hypnotic-type way of teaching. However, is it really what Atheists make it up to be? Could the teaching of Evolution and the Big Bang in public schools be also a culprit of this?

Well, I can already tell you're shaking your head. What an absurd statement for me to make. Alas, I've seen it happen.

Public schools teach Evolution and the Big Bang not because they are more rational than creationism, but because they are secular schools. Intelligent Design leads to a divine-being, and in the case of a public school, they want to do everything not to offend anyone religiously and be "politically correct". I've traveled to many places in my life so far (might be surprising for someone who is only 15 years of age). I've spoken with many Atheists, and heard their perspectives. They ranted on about how creationism had no evidence supporting it, and went on about the superiority about Evolution. When I asked them how much they've looked into creationism and its principles, they just shrugged. Many Atheists have come to be because they grew up in a secular school, and were only exposed to Evolution and the Big Bang. When a new competitor, being creationism, comes along and rivals their ideals, it tends to be swiped off to the side without a passing glance. Intelligent Design is pushed off to the side because it is claimed to not be "scientific" when according to many scientists, the idea might not be so far off.

Of course, I've talked with many of you on here, and you've taken the time to study many different perspectives but still kept your ideals, which I appreciate. So, I'll raise the question up for discussion...

Could Atheists and skeptics both be exposed to "brainwash" in our current society and school system, without being exposed to other ideals such as creationism?

Now, I admit, plenty of Christians are culprits of staying on the idea of Intelligent Design, and not even giving other ideas a single chance. I apologize on their behalf, as Christianity is nothing close to a "perfect religion", we only admit that we are not perfect. My mission is to look at all of the different perspectives scientifically and logically, and prove which one is the most accurate, not even thinking about religion as a factor.

I look forward to a civil and thought-provoking discussion. :)
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FaustianJustice
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12/15/2015 3:31:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 3:00:20 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
Hello folks of DDO! As I've been procrastinating Spanish homework, I've been thinking about this one topic that I've seen quite a few Atheists bring up (not necessarily on this site in particular). That topic being: "Are Christians just products of a religion that forces people into believing outlandish claims?"

I'd like to bring up a few mild points that may expand your peripheral vision for this subject. Many Atheists think that those who grew up in the Church were "brainwashed" into believing in what they believe today. I can respect the points the said Atheists bring up. Church can be misconceived this way, teaching children new religious songs, telling them to pray before bed every night, and telling them every Sunday morning that God loves them. This can be seen as a hypnotic-type way of teaching. However, is it really what Atheists make it up to be? Could the teaching of Evolution and the Big Bang in public schools be also a culprit of this?

Well, I can already tell you're shaking your head. What an absurd statement for me to make. Alas, I've seen it happen.

Public schools teach Evolution and the Big Bang not because they are more rational than creationism,

... um... ya sure? Typically evidence to a conclusion is what is taught. "The Big Bang" lends itself to certain evidence of its occurrence, or at least self identifies as the best theory working. Evolution is much the same.

but because they are secular schools. Intelligent Design leads to a divine-being,

um... ya sure? In what way does the designer need to be "divine", what evidence leads you to that?

and in the case of a public school, they want to do everything not to offend anyone religiously and be "politically correct". I've traveled to many places in my life so far (might be surprising for someone who is only 15 years of age). I've spoken with many Atheists, and heard their perspectives. They ranted on about how creationism had no evidence supporting it, and went on about the superiority about Evolution. When I asked them how much they've looked into creationism and its principles, they just shrugged. Many Atheists have come to be because they grew up in a secular school, and were only exposed to Evolution and the Big Bang. When a new competitor, being creationism, comes along and rivals their ideals, it tends to be swiped off to the side without a passing glance. Intelligent Design is pushed off to the side because it is claimed to not be "scientific" when according to many scientists, the idea might not be so far off.

So far off, in as much as you haven't even defined the "designer". Here, lets start: please define the intelligent designer in the ID 'theory'.

Of course, I've talked with many of you on here, and you've taken the time to study many different perspectives but still kept your ideals, which I appreciate. So, I'll raise the question up for discussion...

Could Atheists and skeptics both be exposed to "brainwash" in our current society and school system, without being exposed to other ideals such as creationism?

Do you define brain washing as collecting evidence and encouraging separate thought? OR do you define brainwashing as mass congregants repeating the same mantra over and over again with no independent inquiry into what they are repeating?

Now, I admit, plenty of Christians are culprits of staying on the idea of Intelligent Design, and not even giving other ideas a single chance. I apologize on their behalf, as Christianity is nothing close to a "perfect religion", we only admit that we are not perfect. My mission is to look at all of the different perspectives scientifically and logically, and prove which one is the most accurate, not even thinking about religion as a factor.

I look forward to a civil and thought-provoking discussion. :)
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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EtrnlVw
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12/15/2015 3:33:47 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 3:00:20 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
Hello folks of DDO! As I've been procrastinating Spanish homework, I've been thinking about this one topic that I've seen quite a few Atheists bring up (not necessarily on this site in particular). That topic being: "Are Christians just products of a religion that forces people into believing outlandish claims?"

Great topic, the word that you are probably looking for and what they assume is "indoctrination", and yes, it is way over emphasized and I believe a product of atheist iindoctrination. You can spot them when they all start saying the same things the same way.

I'd like to bring up a few mild points that may expand your peripheral vision for this subject. Many Atheists think that those who grew up in the Church were "brainwashed" into believing in what they believe today. I can respect the points the said Atheists bring up. Church can be misconceived this way, teaching children new religious songs, telling them to pray before bed every night, and telling them every Sunday morning that God loves them. This can be seen as a hypnotic-type way of teaching. However, is it really what Atheists make it up to be? Could the teaching of Evolution and the Big Bang in public schools be also a culprit of this?

No, it is not what atheists make it out to be and is an insult to people who actually suffer it.
The teachings of evolution as the replacement for a Creator should be presented as a "reasonable" idea for origins of existence as should creationism. If they both were presented, and given freedom per student to examine it could be a more positive situation, but as you pointed out the system has become more secular.

For instance, creation doesn't have to support or endorse any religious sect or denominations, it could be presented apart from all of that, it would just be essentially creationism vs naturalism.

Well, I can already tell you're shaking your head. What an absurd statement for me to make. Alas, I've seen it happen.

Public schools teach Evolution and the Big Bang not because they are more rational than creationism, but because they are secular schools. Intelligent Design leads to a divine-being, and in the case of a public school, they want to do everything not to offend anyone religiously and be "politically correct". I've traveled to many places in my life so far (might be surprising for someone who is only 15 years of age). I've spoken with many Atheists, and heard their perspectives. They ranted on about how creationism had no evidence supporting it, and went on about the superiority about Evolution. When I asked them how much they've looked into creationism and its principles, they just shrugged. Many Atheists have come to be because they grew up in a secular school, and were only exposed to Evolution and the Big Bang. When a new competitor, being creationism, comes along and rivals their ideals, it tends to be swiped off to the side without a passing glance. Intelligent Design is pushed off to the side because it is claimed to not be "scientific" when according to many scientists, the idea might not be so far off.

Yes, and now Creationism or the concept of God is supposedly an "outrageous" claim lol, when the rest of human history claims that atheism is indeed outrageous. Science is not anti-God, atheism is, it is an ideology that dismisses a Creator, science merely studies what God creates.
I think both ideas should circulate as possible, intelligent ideas for the origins of life. Why creationism is getting the back seat one only knows....
Perhaps if it was not insinuated that there is no Creator, it wouldn't be such a factor. Science is not in the business of answering questions regarding the existence of God, and should be kept in its place, which is realm of the natural.

Of course, I've talked with many of you on here, and you've taken the time to study many different perspectives but still kept your ideals, which I appreciate. So, I'll raise the question up for discussion...

Could Atheists and skeptics both be exposed to "brainwash" in our current society and school system, without being exposed to other ideals such as creationism?

Now, I admit, plenty of Christians are culprits of staying on the idea of Intelligent Design, and not even giving other ideas a single chance. I apologize on their behalf, as Christianity is nothing close to a "perfect religion", we only admit that we are not perfect. My mission is to look at all of the different perspectives scientifically and logically, and prove which one is the most accurate, not even thinking about religion as a factor.

Christians, Theists or creationists need not reject science in any way shape or form, it's the ideology behind atheism that is what is rejected. Science and Creationism can work perfectly together, it's the people (both religious and non) making this so hard.

I look forward to a civil and thought-provoking discussion. :)
GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.
FaustianJustice
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12/15/2015 3:51:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.

Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.
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GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 3:55:08 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
It's so titled as, you guessed it, a theory, but it is taught as a fact, despite having thousands of loose ends and so called unknowns. Even Richard Dawkins(Biologist and Atheist) uses terms like "we know what kind of event it probably was", "It was perhaps the first self replicating molecule", and "Well, no one knows for sure", in reference to several "accepted scientific conclusions and guesses" which are taught in schools as fact despite being theoretical. It has become its own religion, believing in theories and unknown data to construct beliefs.

http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com...
GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 3:57:08 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Richard Dawkins, in an interview with Ben Stein stated that there are ways that intelligent design are quite plausable and possible. He accepts intelligent designers, just not designers called..."God".
GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:00:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 3:51:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.
bulproof
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12/15/2015 4:03:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:00:24 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:51:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Provide evidence that any god exists much less yours.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Pollux
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12/15/2015 4:04:25 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Evolution is fact. Labs across the globe prove it a few hundred times a day in a variety of ways.

The theory is still incomplete, much like the theory of gravity. Or do you also doubt gravity because we still have much to learn about it and it's still a "theory?"
MizzEnigma
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12/15/2015 4:05:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
What creationism theory? Hinduism? Islamic? Branches of Satanism? As many as possible so everyone is open to the option of choosing which they like best?
Bound by mystery, shadowed by the enigma.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,235
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12/15/2015 4:06:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:00:24 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:51:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:10:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:06:40 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:00:24 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:51:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

According to the video above, Dawkins, a Biologist and Atheist who wrote "The God Delusion", there is evidence within Biology that intelligent design may be true. So, can you get yourself to even consider the idea of intelligent Design, or are you not so much different than religious people?
FaustianJustice
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12/15/2015 4:15:57 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

According to the video above, Dawkins, a Biologist and Atheist who wrote "The God Delusion", there is evidence within Biology that intelligent design may be true. So, can you get yourself to even consider the idea of intelligent Design, or are you not so much different than religious people?

I will take your second dodge as a concession to the point then. I will consider ID just as soon as its proponents can actually get their sh!t together and starting pointing to a God or Gods and why that particular God or Gods, bring forth evidence that its that specific God or Gods, and NOT pointing to gaps and stating "well, because we don't know, it MUST be a God or Gods".

Secondly, your video demonstrates nothing to a conclusion, just that an alien race could be a designer, too, which does nothing to actually answer as to what the origin of life actually is.

Do you consider "Aliens" to be a valid component of ID? Why or why not?
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GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:15:59 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:06:40 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:00:24 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:51:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

It is not my job to convert you to a religion on this thread. The topic is brainwashing. The OP stated that it is just as much "brainwashing" to teach Evolution as Creationism. I am taking a Creationism stance. You are tsking a noncreationism stance.
RoderickSpode
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12/15/2015 4:17:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 3:00:20 PM, ZacGraphics wrote:
Hello folks of DDO! As I've been procrastinating Spanish homework, I've been thinking about this one topic that I've seen quite a few Atheists bring up (not necessarily on this site in particular). That topic being: "Are Christians just products of a religion that forces people into believing outlandish claims?"

I'd like to bring up a few mild points that may expand your peripheral vision for this subject. Many Atheists think that those who grew up in the Church were "brainwashed" into believing in what they believe today. I can respect the points the said Atheists bring up. Church can be misconceived this way, teaching children new religious songs, telling them to pray before bed every night, and telling them every Sunday morning that God loves them. This can be seen as a hypnotic-type way of teaching. However, is it really what Atheists make it up to be? Could the teaching of Evolution and the Big Bang in public schools be also a culprit of this?

Well, I can already tell you're shaking your head. What an absurd statement for me to make. Alas, I've seen it happen.

Public schools teach Evolution and the Big Bang not because they are more rational than creationism, but because they are secular schools. Intelligent Design leads to a divine-being, and in the case of a public school, they want to do everything not to offend anyone religiously and be "politically correct". I've traveled to many places in my life so far (might be surprising for someone who is only 15 years of age). I've spoken with many Atheists, and heard their perspectives. They ranted on about how creationism had no evidence supporting it, and went on about the superiority about Evolution. When I asked them how much they've looked into creationism and its principles, they just shrugged. Many Atheists have come to be because they grew up in a secular school, and were only exposed to Evolution and the Big Bang. When a new competitor, being creationism, comes along and rivals their ideals, it tends to be swiped off to the side without a passing glance. Intelligent Design is pushed off to the side because it is claimed to not be "scientific" when according to many scientists, the idea might not be so far off.

Of course, I've talked with many of you on here, and you've taken the time to study many different perspectives but still kept your ideals, which I appreciate. So, I'll raise the question up for discussion...

Could Atheists and skeptics both be exposed to "brainwash" in our current society and school system, without being exposed to other ideals such as creationism?

Now, I admit, plenty of Christians are culprits of staying on the idea of Intelligent Design, and not even giving other ideas a single chance. I apologize on their behalf, as Christianity is nothing close to a "perfect religion", we only admit that we are not perfect. My mission is to look at all of the different perspectives scientifically and logically, and prove which one is the most accurate, not even thinking about religion as a factor.

I look forward to a civil and thought-provoking discussion. :)
It's an on-going circular conflict. Yes, brain-washing plays a big part in the critique of intelligent design. Accusations from evolutionists are made against ID proponents based on sort of a guilt-by-association theme (Many, although not all proponents of ID are Christians). Here's an example of irrational, prejudicial accusation:

A crucial piece of the defense (pro-intelligent design) was a book called Of Pandas and People which was marketed as a science textbook for middle and high school children. During the trial, previous copies of the book were subpoenaed for review. It was demonstrated that, whenever previous versions of the book had the terms "creationist" or "creationism" or some similar form, it had been replaced in almost all cases with the terms "design proponents" and "intelligent design" in later editions.

Example from the trial

Example of earlier creationist edition (emphasis added):
"Creation means that the various forms of life began abruptly through the agency of an intelligent creator with their distinctive features already intact. Fish with fins and scales, birds with feathers, beaks, and wings, etc."

Example of new Improved Intelligent Design edition (emphasis added):
"Intelligent design means that various forms of life began abruptly through an intelligent agency, with their distinctive features already intact. Fish with fins and scales, birds with feathers, beaks, wings, etc."


This evidence and things like the Wedge Document helped lead John E. Jones III to his verdict that intelligent design was the same as creationism and that the ID movement was a subversive attempt to inject creationism into the classroom.

http://rationalwiki.org...

And evolutionists just suck this up.

The only problem with the original use of the term creationism by the author of said book was they didn't have the foresight to know their accusers would identify that term to mean Biblical Creationism. But that's hardly something to fault them with. The term Intelligent Design was not used as a technical term, so instead they simply used the term creationism. Very simple, yet still used as cannon fodder for evolutionists in their wild conspiracy theories.
Chaosism
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12/15/2015 4:20:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:15:59 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:

It is not my job to convert you to a religion on this thread. The topic is brainwashing. The OP stated that it is just as much "brainwashing" to teach Evolution as Creationism. I am taking a Creationism stance. You are tsking a noncreationism stance.

When did you come to the conclusion that Creationism is true?
GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:21:03 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:15:57 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

According to the video above, Dawkins, a Biologist and Atheist who wrote "The God Delusion", there is evidence within Biology that intelligent design may be true. So, can you get yourself to even consider the idea of intelligent Design, or are you not so much different than religious people?

I will take your second dodge as a concession to the point then. I will consider ID just as soon as its proponents can actually get their sh!t together and starting pointing to a God or Gods and why that particular God or Gods, bring forth evidence that its that specific God or Gods, and NOT pointing to gaps and stating "well, because we don't know, it MUST be a God or Gods".

Secondly, your video demonstrates nothing to a conclusion, just that an alien race could be a designer, too, which does nothing to actually answer as to what the origin of life actually is.

Do you consider "Aliens" to be a valid component of ID? Why or why not?

In the Bible it refers to God's children as aliens. Angels come from somewhere other than Earth. God resides beyond the Earth. Jesus ascended to "outside the Earth. In many religions there is the belief in those from outside Earth. If God is not from our world, the term "alien" is not incorrect. Alien simply means from somewhere else. So sure, an "alien" may have done the creating. Can you accept that a more advanced entity than us may have created our system if there is any evidence to support it?
FaustianJustice
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12/15/2015 4:22:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:15:59 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:06:40 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:00:24 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:51:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

It is not my job to convert you to a religion on this thread. The topic is brainwashing. The OP stated that it is just as much "brainwashing" to teach Evolution as Creationism. I am taking a Creationism stance. You are tsking a noncreationism stance.

And to take a "creationism" stance, you have to refer to the "creationist" texts from which your position came, correct? And such a "creationist" text was written by man, correct? That immediately rules it out as something "independent" of man, doesn't it? So please tell me a way in which Creationism can be independently reviewed of its source. Absolutely nothing I do will ever change how fossils are compiled, or what various microbes adapt to what, however how the Bible is interpreted and re-written and forced fit (much like various other religions) are. Does the Bible reinterpret to itself, or does the Bible readapt to what an independent researching body has found?

Further more: how does evolution get promoted? Its sure not by congregations of people chanting. Its by the presence of outside, independent evidence.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:22:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:20:16 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:15:59 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:

It is not my job to convert you to a religion on this thread. The topic is brainwashing. The OP stated that it is just as much "brainwashing" to teach Evolution as Creationism. I am taking a Creationism stance. You are tsking a noncreationism stance.

When did you come to the conclusion that Creationism is true?

When did you come to the conclusion that Creationism was 100% false?
GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:23:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:22:11 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:15:59 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:06:40 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:00:24 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:51:49 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 3:48:54 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

It is not my job to convert you to a religion on this thread. The topic is brainwashing. The OP stated that it is just as much "brainwashing" to teach Evolution as Creationism. I am taking a Creationism stance. You are tsking a noncreationism stance.

And to take a "creationism" stance, you have to refer to the "creationist" texts from which your position came, correct? And such a "creationist" text was written by man, correct? That immediately rules it out as something "independent" of man, doesn't it? So please tell me a way in which Creationism can be independently reviewed of its source. Absolutely nothing I do will ever change how fossils are compiled, or what various microbes adapt to what, however how the Bible is interpreted and re-written and forced fit (much like various other religions) are. Does the Bible reinterpret to itself, or does the Bible readapt to what an independent researching body has found?

Further more: how does evolution get promoted? Its sure not by congregations of people chanting. Its by the presence of outside, independent evidence.

Darwin concluded that whales came from bears. Do you agree with this assertion?
FaustianJustice
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12/15/2015 4:26:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:21:03 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:15:57 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

According to the video above, Dawkins, a Biologist and Atheist who wrote "The God Delusion", there is evidence within Biology that intelligent design may be true. So, can you get yourself to even consider the idea of intelligent Design, or are you not so much different than religious people?

I will take your second dodge as a concession to the point then. I will consider ID just as soon as its proponents can actually get their sh!t together and starting pointing to a God or Gods and why that particular God or Gods, bring forth evidence that its that specific God or Gods, and NOT pointing to gaps and stating "well, because we don't know, it MUST be a God or Gods".

Secondly, your video demonstrates nothing to a conclusion, just that an alien race could be a designer, too, which does nothing to actually answer as to what the origin of life actually is.

Do you consider "Aliens" to be a valid component of ID? Why or why not?

In the Bible it refers to God's children as aliens. Angels come from somewhere other than Earth. God resides beyond the Earth. Jesus ascended to "outside the Earth. In many religions there is the belief in those from outside Earth. If God is not from our world, the term "alien" is not incorrect. Alien simply means from somewhere else. So sure, an "alien" may have done the creating. Can you accept that a more advanced entity than us may have created our system if there is any evidence to support it?

If this is the case you espouse, superior technology is not "God". That is not "divine".
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:29:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:26:35 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:21:03 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:15:57 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

According to the video above, Dawkins, a Biologist and Atheist who wrote "The God Delusion", there is evidence within Biology that intelligent design may be true. So, can you get yourself to even consider the idea of intelligent Design, or are you not so much different than religious people?

I will take your second dodge as a concession to the point then. I will consider ID just as soon as its proponents can actually get their sh!t together and starting pointing to a God or Gods and why that particular God or Gods, bring forth evidence that its that specific God or Gods, and NOT pointing to gaps and stating "well, because we don't know, it MUST be a God or Gods".

Secondly, your video demonstrates nothing to a conclusion, just that an alien race could be a designer, too, which does nothing to actually answer as to what the origin of life actually is.

Do you consider "Aliens" to be a valid component of ID? Why or why not?

In the Bible it refers to God's children as aliens. Angels come from somewhere other than Earth. God resides beyond the Earth. Jesus ascended to "outside the Earth. In many religions there is the belief in those from outside Earth. If God is not from our world, the term "alien" is not incorrect. Alien simply means from somewhere else. So sure, an "alien" may have done the creating. Can you accept that a more advanced entity than us may have created our system if there is any evidence to support it?


If this is the case you espouse, superior technology is not "God". That is not "divine".

The Bible actually uses the words"no one knows where He comes from" in reference to God. If God created time "devinity" becomes a subjective term. Devine to what? His creation? I would say so.
GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:33:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I've debated several Atheists on this very forum who say,"Time didn't begin until the BigBang." Really? Think about that. They also use the term"Reality exploded into existance." TThe Biblical account says that God spoke it into existance. Poof! It then says he divided the light from itself. It also goes on to say he "stretched out the heavens".
bulproof
Posts: 25,272
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12/15/2015 4:34:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:22:34 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:20:16 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:15:59 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:

It is not my job to convert you to a religion on this thread. The topic is brainwashing. The OP stated that it is just as much "brainwashing" to teach Evolution as Creationism. I am taking a Creationism stance. You are tsking a noncreationism stance.

When did you come to the conclusion that Creationism is true?

When did you come to the conclusion that Creationism was 100% false?

When I read the jewish creation story. Don't lose your marbles, I've read other creation stories and found them as nonsensical.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
GrittyWorm
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12/15/2015 4:35:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 4:26:35 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:21:03 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/15/2015 4:15:57 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
Everyone is brainwashed. You can be brainwashed to believe a lie or even the truth. For a negative person to become an optimist it takes "brainwashing" or reprogramming. That doesn't make it bad or good. It can be either one.

But yes, the "what can be taught" in schools philosophy is hypocrisy. To not teach Creationism when it's just as much a scientific explanation or "theory" as any other "theory", then turn around and call a theory a fact, is hypocrisy, dogmaticlike teaching, and brainwashing is full fledged zealoutism on the part of noncreationists. It's the same thing they accuse the religious of doing to kids.



Please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism", along with what evidence you have to that conclusion.

Provide evidence that the theory of evolution is 100% correct.

Certain, just as soon as you do what is asked of you: please identify which God or Gods is the correct one when it comes to "creationism" along with what evidence you have to your conclusion.

Until such time as you meet even that most basic hurdle, I feel no desire to answer an assertion I haven't made, nor is relevant to the subject as evolutionary theory immediately identifies itself as to "where the evidence points", not "what is absolutely correct".

According to the video above, Dawkins, a Biologist and Atheist who wrote "The God Delusion", there is evidence within Biology that intelligent design may be true. So, can you get yourself to even consider the idea of intelligent Design, or are you not so much different than religious people?

I will take your second dodge as a concession to the point then. I will consider ID just as soon as its proponents can actually get their sh!t together and starting pointing to a God or Gods and why that particular God or Gods, bring forth evidence that its that specific God or Gods, and NOT pointing to gaps and stating "well, because we don't know, it MUST be a God or Gods".

Secondly, your video demonstrates nothing to a conclusion, just that an alien race could be a designer, too, which does nothing to actually answer as to what the origin of life actually is.

Do you consider "Aliens" to be a valid component of ID? Why or why not?

In the Bible it refers to God's children as aliens. Angels come from somewhere other than Earth. God resides beyond the Earth. Jesus ascended to "outside the Earth. In many religions there is the belief in those from outside Earth. If God is not from our world, the term "alien" is not incorrect. Alien simply means from somewhere else. So sure, an "alien" may have done the creating. Can you accept that a more advanced entity than us may have created our system if there is any evidence to support it?


If this is the case you espouse, superior technology is not "God". That is not "divine".

What is "devine"? I'll use it in a sentence. This cake is "devine".