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If Atheists started a church

GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/17/2015 9:43:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?

Atheists do provide pastoral support in certain circumstances. For example, the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers in the US (MAAF) wants to run a chaplaincy program to provide pastoral support to irreligious servicemen who experience the same challenges and traumas anyone else does. [http://www.motherjones.com...] There's no reason in principle that secular chaplaincy couldn't be provided by anyone, regardless of faith, however in practice, MAAF reports that the chaplaincy offered in the US services tends to be dominated by Evangelical pastors -- and Evangelicals tend not to be known for their tolerance, broad-mindedness and secular focus.

There are also nontheistic, nondenominational assemblies, like the Sunday Assembly in Australia [http://www.abc.net.au...]. It offers fellowship and a sense of joy and wonder about the universe, but not dogmatic prescriptions.

Such things have no particular appeal for me, but there's no reason they can't exist if they serve some psychological or social need.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/18/2015 6:47:22 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/17/2015 9:43:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?

Atheists do provide pastoral support in certain circumstances. For example, the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers in the US (MAAF) wants to run a chaplaincy program to provide pastoral support to irreligious servicemen who experience the same challenges and traumas anyone else does. [http://www.motherjones.com...] There's no reason in principle that secular chaplaincy couldn't be provided by anyone, regardless of faith, however in practice, MAAF reports that the chaplaincy offered in the US services tends to be dominated by Evangelical pastors -- and Evangelicals tend not to be known for their tolerance, broad-mindedness and secular focus.

There are also nontheistic, nondenominational assemblies, like the Sunday Assembly in Australia [http://www.abc.net.au...]. It offers fellowship and a sense of joy and wonder about the universe, but not dogmatic prescriptions.

Such things have no particular appeal for me, but there's no reason they can't exist if they serve some psychological or social need.

Should there be an Atheist Bible?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/18/2015 10:12:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/18/2015 6:47:22 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/17/2015 9:43:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?

Atheists do provide pastoral support in certain circumstances. For example, the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers in the US (MAAF) wants to run a chaplaincy program to provide pastoral support to irreligious servicemen who experience the same challenges and traumas anyone else does. [http://www.motherjones.com...] There's no reason in principle that secular chaplaincy couldn't be provided by anyone, regardless of faith, however in practice, MAAF reports that the chaplaincy offered in the US services tends to be dominated by Evangelical pastors -- and Evangelicals tend not to be known for their tolerance, broad-mindedness and secular focus.

There are also nontheistic, nondenominational assemblies, like the Sunday Assembly in Australia [http://www.abc.net.au...]. It offers fellowship and a sense of joy and wonder about the universe, but not dogmatic prescriptions.

Such things have no particular appeal for me, but there's no reason they can't exist if they serve some psychological or social need.

Should there be an Atheist Bible?
Although there are nontheistic churches, there is no atheist canon; and there can't be, since any rejection of gods, no matter the reason, counts as atheism.

But atheism isn't a guide to how to live your life. It's not even a cultural or social identity. Rather it's the name theists give to disparate people who live their lives without gods for diverse reasons. Once a religious majority has named them, they then tell fictions about them. Those fictions can lead to atheists being (mis)treated as a group politically, and so some atheists may respond as a group, responding to misrepresentation and misunderstanding with coordinated representation, responding to marginalisation and criticism with activism and religious critique.

There is atheist thought. Some of it influences other atheists. But there's no canon, no authorities to create canon, institution to approve it, and hence no Bible.

I suspect you know all this already, Gritty.
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/18/2015 10:22:50 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/18/2015 10:12:16 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/18/2015 6:47:22 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/17/2015 9:43:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?

Atheists do provide pastoral support in certain circumstances. For example, the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers in the US (MAAF) wants to run a chaplaincy program to provide pastoral support to irreligious servicemen who experience the same challenges and traumas anyone else does. [http://www.motherjones.com...] There's no reason in principle that secular chaplaincy couldn't be provided by anyone, regardless of faith, however in practice, MAAF reports that the chaplaincy offered in the US services tends to be dominated by Evangelical pastors -- and Evangelicals tend not to be known for their tolerance, broad-mindedness and secular focus.

There are also nontheistic, nondenominational assemblies, like the Sunday Assembly in Australia [http://www.abc.net.au...]. It offers fellowship and a sense of joy and wonder about the universe, but not dogmatic prescriptions.

Such things have no particular appeal for me, but there's no reason they can't exist if they serve some psychological or social need.

Should there be an Atheist Bible?
Although there are nontheistic churches, there is no atheist canon; and there can't be, since any rejection of gods, no matter the reason, counts as atheism.

But atheism isn't a guide to how to live your life. It's not even a cultural or social identity. Rather it's the name theists give to disparate people who live their lives without gods for diverse reasons. Once a religious majority has named them, they then tell fictions about them. Those fictions can lead to atheists being (mis)treated as a group politically, and so some atheists may respond as a group, responding to misrepresentation and misunderstanding with coordinated representation, responding to marginalisation and criticism with activism and religious critique.

There is atheist thought. Some of it influences other atheists. But there's no canon, no authorities to create canon, institution to approve it, and hence no Bible.

I suspect you know all this already, Gritty.

Why are Atheists antichristian but promuslim?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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12/18/2015 10:52:30 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/18/2015 10:22:50 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/18/2015 10:12:16 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/18/2015 6:47:22 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/17/2015 9:43:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?

Atheists do provide pastoral support in certain circumstances. For example, the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers in the US (MAAF) wants to run a chaplaincy program to provide pastoral support to irreligious servicemen who experience the same challenges and traumas anyone else does. [http://www.motherjones.com...] There's no reason in principle that secular chaplaincy couldn't be provided by anyone, regardless of faith, however in practice, MAAF reports that the chaplaincy offered in the US services tends to be dominated by Evangelical pastors -- and Evangelicals tend not to be known for their tolerance, broad-mindedness and secular focus.

There are also nontheistic, nondenominational assemblies, like the Sunday Assembly in Australia [http://www.abc.net.au...]. It offers fellowship and a sense of joy and wonder about the universe, but not dogmatic prescriptions.

Such things have no particular appeal for me, but there's no reason they can't exist if they serve some psychological or social need.

Should there be an Atheist Bible?
Although there are nontheistic churches, there is no atheist canon; and there can't be, since any rejection of gods, no matter the reason, counts as atheism.

But atheism isn't a guide to how to live your life. It's not even a cultural or social identity. Rather it's the name theists give to disparate people who live their lives without gods for diverse reasons. Once a religious majority has named them, they then tell fictions about them. Those fictions can lead to atheists being (mis)treated as a group politically, and so some atheists may respond as a group, responding to misrepresentation and misunderstanding with coordinated representation, responding to marginalisation and criticism with activism and religious critique.

There is atheist thought. Some of it influences other atheists. But there's no canon, no authorities to create canon, institution to approve it, and hence no Bible.

I suspect you know all this already, Gritty.

Why are Atheists antichristian but promuslim?

I think it's more that you perceive it that way, Gritty.

Christians tend to be sensitive to Christian criticism; they can seldom tell when a person uncritical of Christianity is an atheist; they may see an atheist compliment toward Christianity as either the compliment of a Christian, or some unacknowledged desire to be Christian; and may see a defense of Muslim people or a call for historical accuracy as a defense of Islam.

In short, it's very hard for Christians feeling defensive or militant about their faith to be informed or objective about what atheists think.

But secondly, most of the vilification and marginalisation occurring to English-speaking atheists is perpetrated by Christian groups, with one or two vocal Christian groups being the main offenders in the US. Christians have a long tradition of misrepresenting atheists; certain Christian sects love whipping nationalistic sentiments against atheism, and during the Cold War, atheism was identified with socialism, when in fact it predates socialism by thousands of years. In the US -- a Christian-dominant state, atheists rate as the most disliked religious identification in America, equal with Muslims.

You have to ask yourself why that is, Gritty. Atheists make up about 9% of the American population [https://en.wikipedia.org...] -- there are more atheists than Pentecostals, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans, Adventists, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists. [https://en.wikipedia.org...] Atheism has been popular in Europe and the US since the 18th century; atheists have lived peacefully in the US since before its Independence. In that time, they've started no revolutions; overthrown no governments; launched no assassinations; never clubbed together to burn down some great public building. They're peaceful religious dissenters, in a nation founded to be a haven for peaceful religious dissent.

In any case, if you look at atheist opinion about Christianity in America over-all, it's neutral to luke-warm. [http://www.pewforum.org...] The two groups atheists generally dislike are Evangelicals and Mormons, for what I believe are quite different reasons. Evangelicals are making a lot of mainstream Christians uncomfortable, and they've been vilifying atheists for most of the 20th century. Mormons bother people in their homes, and atheists generally don't like religious sales pitches. But US atheists tend to like Muslims about the same as they like Catholics -- they're neutral to luke-warm.

And you might not realise it, but atheists tend to have fairly high religious tolerance. Again, from the same source, atheists are warm toward Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and neutral toward virtually everyone except Evangelicals and Mormons. And with those exceptions, atheists tend to religious groups better than do most Christians, and better than they are liked themselves -- perhaps because atheists are better informed about religion over-all than are most people of faith. [http://www.pewforum.org...]

So essentially stating your perception as fact is privileging your bias, Gritty. The stats don't actually support your conclusion. Christians have a long tradition of misrepresenting non-Christian beliefs, and you yourself have some serious unacknowledged conflicts over your attitude to non-Christian people -- atheists and otherwise.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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12/18/2015 11:02:39 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?

Yes, they would worship The all mighty dollar, so they would pray like
"there is no god but the all mighty dollar and J.P Morgan is his prophet"
Or in the christian form of prayer
"Dear J. P. Morgan, please give me tons of expensive stuff"
Then they would worship a golden statrue of J. P morgan and dump all their money on his altar.
NewLifeChristian
Posts: 1,236
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12/19/2015 5:57:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?
They already have their own televangelist, Richard Dawkins.
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
AbuJarir
Posts: 91
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12/19/2015 6:01:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:57:24 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 12/17/2015 6:17:00 PM, GrittyWorm wrote:
If Atheists started a church what would it be like? What would the building be like? What would you guys talk about? Would there be preaching?
They already have their own televangelist, Richard Dawkins.

Yh that too bro.