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Shiites are not Muslims

AbuJarir
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12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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12/19/2015 7:08:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

Well in my view they are Muslims. They claim to be Muslims. Just because you disagree with their views in certain areas of the faith does not mean they are not Muslims. They could make the same claim Sunnis are not Muslims. It's simply an incorrect claim.
DanneJeRusse
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12/19/2015 7:14:48 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

Sure, but most likely both factions will still turn to the same holy book that condones fighting in self defense so that you may carry on the killing of each other for centuries to come, and then call it peace.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
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AbuJarir
Posts: 91
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12/19/2015 7:16:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 7:08:11 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

Well in my view they are Muslims. They claim to be Muslims. Just because you disagree with their views in certain areas of the faith does not mean they are not Muslims. They could make the same claim Sunnis are not Muslims. It's simply an incorrect claim.

Muhammad(SAAWS) stated on multiple occassions how he felt about blasphemers, heretics, and apostates with this phrase "They are not from us" Takfir is Sunnah of Muhammad(SAAWS).
AbuJarir
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12/19/2015 7:32:05 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Imam Zayd Ibn Ali(RA) is a figure reverd by Shiites even though he hated them. Imam Zayd Ibn Ali(RA) led a rebellion against the Umayyads when they abandoned Islam. He went to Kufa, Iraq the Shiites addressed him and said "God bless you Oh Zayd, what say you of Abu Bakr & Umar?" He replied "Not once have I herd any one in my family say anything but good about them they ruled upon the Sunnah" The Shiites of Kufa left he yelled at them all calling them Rafidha (Rejectors) Also look up Ibn Tayymiyah's Fatwah on them and Sheikh Baz and Abdul-Wahhab's
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,811
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12/19/2015 7:46:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Shia and Kharijite is here.
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AbuJarir
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12/19/2015 8:04:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 7:46:53 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Shia and Kharijite is here.

I reilliterate they are one in the same
PetersSmith
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12/19/2015 8:06:18 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 8:04:24 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
At 12/19/2015 7:46:53 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Shia and Kharijite is here.

I reilliterate they are one in the same

That's like saying Mormonism is the same as Catholicism.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

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Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/19/2015 8:37:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:

The Shia religion is based in Judaism, Zorostarianism, Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles

- Duruz & Q'aramita or Yazidis may fit that description. The mainstram Shi'a, such as Zaydyyah & Imamyyah are genuine sects of Islam, like Sunnis.

and DO NOT follow the religion of our Most beloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS).

- The mainstream Shi'a does indeed.

They curse his wives and closet friends.

- The Zaydyyah don't curse them. The Imamyah don't seen them as friends.

And worship men and build shrines around them.

- The mainstream Shi'a don't worship men. The Saba'iyah, 'Abidyah, Muhammadiya & 'Alyyah were sects who worshipped the Prophet (pbuh) or 'Ali (ra), but they are now extinct.

And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

- Actually, no. Conflicts of Shi'a vs Sunnah were a relatively rare occurrence in History. Well, it's not like Sunnis never killed some Shi'a!
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Yassine
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12/19/2015 8:41:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 7:08:11 PM, beng100 wrote:

Well in my view they are Muslims. They claim to be Muslims.

- Anyone who claims to be Muslim, is, unless otherwise contradicted. Traditional schools agree, by consensus, that mainstream Shi'a are Muslims, yet some new extremist groups claim otherwise.

Just because you disagree with their views in certain areas of the faith does not mean they are not Muslims. They could make the same claim Sunnis are not Muslims. It's simply an incorrect claim.

- Wahabi Sunnis claim Shi'a are not Muslims, & Akhbari Shi'a claim Sunis are not Muslims. These two extremist groups are relatively dominant in Saudi/Iran. So, the sentiment of reviling the other
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Yassine
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12/19/2015 9:11:07 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 8:06:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/19/2015 8:04:24 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
At 12/19/2015 7:46:53 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Shia and Kharijite is here.

I reilliterate they are one in the same

That's like saying Mormonism is the same as Catholicism.

- Not quite. You can be a Khariji & a Shi'a at the same time. Ex. the Q'aramita.

- Being Shi'a relate to mostly two essential beliefs:
1. 'Ali is the legitimate successor to Muhammad (pbub).
2. Perpetually mourning the death of al-Husein.

- Being Khariji relates to few essential beliefs:
1. Complete disregard of any worldly authority.
2. Literal bare interpretation of scripture.
3. Takfir against other Muslims.
4. Killing, plundering, & harsh punishments.
...etc.

=> So, you can be khariji & shi'a at the same time. Beliefs of these two groups aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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12/19/2015 9:12:21 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 9:11:07 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/19/2015 8:06:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/19/2015 8:04:24 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
At 12/19/2015 7:46:53 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Shia and Kharijite is here.

I reilliterate they are one in the same

That's like saying Mormonism is the same as Catholicism.

- Not quite. You can be a Khariji & a Shi'a at the same time. Ex. the Q'aramita.

- Being Shi'a relate to mostly two essential beliefs:
1. 'Ali is the legitimate successor to Muhammad (pbub).
2. Perpetually mourning the death of al-Husein.

- Being Khariji relates to few essential beliefs:
1. Complete disregard of any worldly authority.
2. Literal bare interpretation of scripture.
3. Takfir against other Muslims.
4. Killing, plundering, & harsh punishments.
...etc.

=> So, you can be khariji & shi'a at the same time. Beliefs of these two groups aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

weren't Muhammed's actual original followers Shia?
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/19/2015 9:20:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 9:12:21 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 12/19/2015 9:11:07 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/19/2015 8:06:18 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/19/2015 8:04:24 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
At 12/19/2015 7:46:53 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Shia and Kharijite is here.

I reilliterate they are one in the same

That's like saying Mormonism is the same as Catholicism.

- Not quite. You can be a Khariji & a Shi'a at the same time. Ex. the Q'aramita.

- Being Shi'a relate to mostly two essential beliefs:
1. 'Ali is the legitimate successor to Muhammad (pbub).
2. Perpetually mourning the death of al-Husein.

- Being Khariji relates to few essential beliefs:
1. Complete disregard of any worldly authority.
2. Literal bare interpretation of scripture.
3. Takfir against other Muslims.
4. Killing, plundering, & harsh punishments.
...etc.

=> So, you can be khariji & shi'a at the same time. Beliefs of these two groups aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

weren't Muhammed's actual original followers Shia?

- NO. The first signs of Shi'a begin with Abdulllah Ibn Sabaa', during the time of the rule of 'Ali. The actual political movement emerged much later with al-Mukhtar.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
AbuJarir
Posts: 91
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12/19/2015 11:09:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
My dear brother in Islam Yassine I agree the Zaydiyyah are our brothers but never will I accecpt the Imami kafir . Abu Hanifa(RA) once traveled a great distance to debate them. He took off his shoes and the Shiites asked why he did this he replied "I heard in the times of our Prophet(SAAWS) the Shiites would steal shoes" They replied "There were no Shiites during the times of our Prophet(SAAWS) " He Abu Hanifa(RA) Said "Exactly so where did this religion come from?" And turned around and left. Watch Adnan Aroor he debunks Shiite Rafidha all the time.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,599
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12/20/2015 4:02:07 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

You sound like a mindless person who is controlled by other's beliefs. You are so wrong . Your just a kid. Don't take this nonsense so seriously. Ask questions and don't take anyone's word for anything, especially regarding religion. You will one day grow up and hopefully think for yourself. Good luck kid.
AbuJarir
Posts: 91
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12/20/2015 4:40:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 4:02:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can.

You sound like a mindless person who is controlled by other's beliefs. You are so wrong . Your just a kid. Don't take this nonsense so seriously. Ask questions and don't take anyone's word for anything, especially regarding religion. You will one day grow up and hopefully think for yourself. Good luck kid.

Say what you want these are facts and the truth.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/20/2015 4:40:40 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 11:09:04 PM, AbuJarir wrote:

My dear brother in Islam Yassine I agree the Zaydiyyah are our brothers but never will I accecpt the Imami kafir .

- There are different types of Imamyah. There are the Usulia who are generally cool ; the Akhbaria who fit most the description of Rawafid ; & the Shaykhiya who are pure mad heretics according to the the first two.

Abu Hanifa(RA) once traveled a great distance to debate them. He took off his shoes and the Shiites asked why he did this he replied "I heard in the times of our Prophet(SAAWS) the Shiites would steal shoes" They replied "There were no Shiites during the times of our Prophet(SAAWS) " He Abu Hanifa(RA) Said "Exactly so where did this religion come from?" And turned around and left.

- That story involves someone else, not Abu Hanifa (ra). & to respond to that, there were no Hanafis & Malikis... in the time of he Prophet (pbuh) either.

Watch Adnan Aroor he debunks Shiite Rafidha all the time.

- Adna, al-Ar'ur is not a licensed scholar. His opinion on the matter is irrelevant, especially since it contradicts the consensus.
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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AbuJarir
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12/20/2015 5:04:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 4:40:40 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/19/2015 11:09:04 PM, AbuJarir wrote:

My dear brother in Islam Yassine I agree the Zaydiyyah are our brothers but never will I accecpt the Imami kafir .

- There are different types of Imamyah. There are the Usulia who are generally cool ; the Akhbaria who fit most the description of Rawafid ; & the Shaykhiya who are pure mad heretics according to the the first two.

Abu Hanifa(RA) once traveled a great distance to debate them. He took off his shoes and the Shiites asked why he did this he replied "I heard in the times of our Prophet(SAAWS) the Shiites would steal shoes" They replied "There were no Shiites during the times of our Prophet(SAAWS) " He Abu Hanifa(RA) Said "Exactly so where did this religion come from?" And turned around and left.

- That story involves someone else, not Abu Hanifa (ra). & to respond to that, there were no Hanafis & Malikis... in the time of he Prophet (pbuh) either.

The cocept Taqleed is Sunnah,
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/20/2015 5:05:57 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:04:32 AM, AbuJarir wrote:

- The cocept Taqleed is Sunnah,

- What?!
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AbuJarir
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12/20/2015 5:13:20 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:05:57 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:04:32 AM, AbuJarir wrote:

- The cocept Taqleed is Sunnah,

- What?!

The Prophet(SAAWS) followed the Deen in the way previous prophets did and how Allah Azza wa Jal reveild it like a Madhab and taught his companions the same way and they passed it down till we get to the teachers of Fiqh Abu Hanifa , Malik, Shafii, Hanbal and even Imam Zayd(RA). Zaydis aren't kafir but are the people of Bid'ah. Allah Ta'Ala knows best Akhi.
Yassine
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12/20/2015 5:15:06 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:13:20 AM, AbuJarir wrote:

The Prophet(SAAWS) followed the Deen in the way previous prophets did and how Allah Azza wa Jal reveild it like a Madhab and taught his companions the same way and they passed it down till we get to the teachers of Fiqh Abu Hanifa , Malik, Shafii, Hanbal and even Imam Zayd(RA). Zaydis aren't kafir but are the people of Bid'ah. Allah Ta'Ala knows best Akhi.

- The same applies to Imamyyah. They, too, follow the Qur'an & the Prophet (pbuh).
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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AbuJarir
Posts: 91
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12/21/2015 12:51:02 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:15:06 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:13:20 AM, AbuJarir wrote:

The Prophet(SAAWS) followed the Deen in the way previous prophets did and how Allah Azza wa Jal reveild it like a Madhab and taught his companions the same way and they passed it down till we get to the teachers of Fiqh Abu Hanifa , Malik, Shafii, Hanbal and even Imam Zayd(RA). Zaydis aren't kafir but are the people of Bid'ah. Allah Ta'Ala knows best Akhi.

- The same applies to Imamyyah. They, too, follow the Qur'an & the Prophet (pbuh).

No they don't by Allah Ta'Ala.
Yassine
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12/21/2015 12:56:56 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 12:51:02 AM, AbuJarir wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:15:06 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:13:20 AM, AbuJarir wrote:

The Prophet(SAAWS) followed the Deen in the way previous prophets did and how Allah Azza wa Jal reveild it like a Madhab and taught his companions the same way and they passed it down till we get to the teachers of Fiqh Abu Hanifa , Malik, Shafii, Hanbal and even Imam Zayd(RA). Zaydis aren't kafir but are the people of Bid'ah. Allah Ta'Ala knows best Akhi.

- The same applies to Imamyyah. They, too, follow the Qur'an & the Prophet (pbuh).

No they don't by Allah Ta'Ala.

- Well, take it up with them then.
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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AbuJarir
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12/21/2015 12:58:28 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 12:56:56 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/21/2015 12:51:02 AM, AbuJarir wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:15:06 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:13:20 AM, AbuJarir wrote:

The Prophet(SAAWS) followed the Deen in the way previous prophets did and how Allah Azza wa Jal reveild it like a Madhab and taught his companions the same way and they passed it down till we get to the teachers of Fiqh Abu Hanifa , Malik, Shafii, Hanbal and even Imam Zayd(RA). Zaydis aren't kafir but are the people of Bid'ah. Allah Ta'Ala knows best Akhi.

- The same applies to Imamyyah. They, too, follow the Qur'an & the Prophet (pbuh).

No they don't by Allah Ta'Ala.

- Well, take it up with them then.

I have once.
Yassine
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12/21/2015 1:00:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 12:58:28 AM, AbuJarir wrote:
At 12/21/2015 12:56:56 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/21/2015 12:51:02 AM, AbuJarir wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:15:06 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:13:20 AM, AbuJarir wrote:

The Prophet(SAAWS) followed the Deen in the way previous prophets did and how Allah Azza wa Jal reveild it like a Madhab and taught his companions the same way and they passed it down till we get to the teachers of Fiqh Abu Hanifa , Malik, Shafii, Hanbal and even Imam Zayd(RA). Zaydis aren't kafir but are the people of Bid'ah. Allah Ta'Ala knows best Akhi.

- The same applies to Imamyyah. They, too, follow the Qur'an & the Prophet (pbuh).

No they don't by Allah Ta'Ala.

- Well, take it up with them then.

I have once.

- I meant, you claim something that isn't true. It's like saying, Shi'a worship Christ. No, they don't. If you think otherwise, take it up with them.
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aquilla
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12/21/2015 1:02:07 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 6:31:44 PM, AbuJarir wrote:
The Shia religion is based in Judaism,Zorostarianism,Hinduism, and Neo-Khawarij principles and DO NOT follow the religion of our Mostbeloved Prophet Muhammad(SAAWS). They curse his wives and closet friends. And worship men and build shrines around them. And kill Sunnis where ever they can. : :

The various sects of Christianity are the same way. All religions came from God's Beast as each false god was built with human hands.