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Islam and the rape of underage girls- Fatihah

Pase66
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12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?
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Fatihah
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12/21/2015 7:33:05 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Response: If you want to challenge me on the merits of Islam, just say so. Rather than go around the forum crying every time I expose you.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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12/21/2015 7:51:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

You are the one who is obsessed with raping a minor. At 16 you should be thinking of school activities. You are one sick puppy.
Pase66
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12/21/2015 8:02:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 7:33:05 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Response: If you want to challenge me on the merits of Islam, just say so. Rather than go around the forum crying every time I expose you.

Okay, let's have a debate then.
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Fatihah
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12/21/2015 8:20:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 8:02:28 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 12/21/2015 7:33:05 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Response: If you want to challenge me on the merits of Islam, just say so. Rather than go around the forum crying every time I expose you.

Okay, let's have a debate then.

Response: We've already been through this. I don't do debates unless in the public forum or unless you want to go ....Live.

Freeconferencecall. Com

Dial in number: (712) 775-7031 If you live in the US.

Access Code 658679 followed by the # sign.

Just name the time you are ready to debate so we can be live at the same time. Then dial the dial in number, then the access number followed by the # sign. The LIVE recorded debate begins. I take ALL challengers.

If you do not live in the US, let me know what country because different countries have different dial in numbers.
Pase66
Posts: 775
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12/21/2015 8:39:38 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 8:20:06 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 8:02:28 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 12/21/2015 7:33:05 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Response: If you want to challenge me on the merits of Islam, just say so. Rather than go around the forum crying every time I expose you.

Okay, let's have a debate then.

Response: We've already been through this. I don't do debates unless in the public forum or unless you want to go ....Live.


Freeconferencecall. Com

Dial in number: (712) 775-7031 If you live in the US.

Access Code 658679 followed by the # sign.

Just name the time you are ready to debate so we can be live at the same time. Then dial the dial in number, then the access number followed by the # sign. The LIVE recorded debate begins. I take ALL challengers.

If you do not live in the US, let me know what country because different countries have different dial in numbers.

First off, I'm not calling a random stranger I met on the internet. That is practically among the top 5 don't do's on the internet. Second, why are you so afraid to have an official debate?
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Fatihah
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12/21/2015 8:48:08 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 8:39:38 PM, Pase66 wrote:

First off, I'm not calling a random stranger I met on the internet. That is practically among the top 5 don't do's on the internet. Second, why are you so afraid to have an official debate?

Response: You're not calling a stranger? What are you 4? I knew you were just some scared little boy trolling the internet.

A live debate is an official debate. You are afraid of being exposed.
tstor
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12/21/2015 8:54:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 7:33:05 PM, Fatihah wrote:

Response: If you want to challenge me on the merits of Islam, just say so. Rather than go around the forum crying every time I expose you.
I have met plenty of people who are similar to Pase66. They have no intention of coming out of their ignorance, so participating in a discussion is almost always like talking to a brick wall.

Best of luck.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Fatihah
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12/21/2015 9:00:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 8:54:44 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/21/2015 7:33:05 PM, Fatihah wrote:

Response: If you want to challenge me on the merits of Islam, just say so. Rather than go around the forum crying every time I expose you.
I have met plenty of people who are similar to Pase66. They have no intention of coming out of their ignorance, so participating in a discussion is almost always like talking to a brick wall.

Best of luck.

Response: I see. People act as if they want to debate by hiding behind a computer and trolling. I challenge them to go live, they run. Yes. A brick wall indeed.
Pase66
Posts: 775
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12/21/2015 9:28:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 8:48:08 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 8:39:38 PM, Pase66 wrote:

First off, I'm not calling a random stranger I met on the internet. That is practically among the top 5 don't do's on the internet. Second, why are you so afraid to have an official debate?

Response: You're not calling a stranger? What are you 4? I knew you were just some scared little boy trolling the internet.

A live debate is an official debate. You are afraid of being exposed.

Ah, yes, the ad hominem attack. Classic. In an official DDO debate, people can vote and actually pick out a winner.
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Pase66
Posts: 775
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12/21/2015 9:30:12 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 8:54:44 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/21/2015 7:33:05 PM, Fatihah wrote:

Response: If you want to challenge me on the merits of Islam, just say so. Rather than go around the forum crying every time I expose you.
I have met plenty of people who are similar to Pase66. They have no intention of coming out of their ignorance, so participating in a discussion is almost always like talking to a brick wall.

Best of luck.

Hello. I believe I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you. If you could please highlight my ignorance, I would sure appreciate it!
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Fatihah
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12/21/2015 9:49:41 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 9:28:53 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 12/21/2015 8:48:08 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 8:39:38 PM, Pase66 wrote:

First off, I'm not calling a random stranger I met on the internet. That is practically among the top 5 don't do's on the internet. Second, why are you so afraid to have an official debate?

Response: You're not calling a stranger? What are you 4? I knew you were just some scared little boy trolling the internet.

A live debate is an official debate. You are afraid of being exposed.

Ah, yes, the ad hominem attack. Classic. In an official DDO debate, people can vote and actually pick out a winner.

Response: Truth is based on facts. Not votes. So if it is votes you want, then I vote you won. There. So you can run along with a vote. Meanwhile, I'll rely on the evidence that clearly shows otherwise.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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12/21/2015 9:59:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 9:49:41 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 9:28:53 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 12/21/2015 8:48:08 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 8:39:38 PM, Pase66 wrote:

First off, I'm not calling a random stranger I met on the internet. That is practically among the top 5 don't do's on the internet. Second, why are you so afraid to have an official debate?

Response: You're not calling a stranger? What are you 4? I knew you were just some scared little boy trolling the internet.

A live debate is an official debate. You are afraid of being exposed.

Ah, yes, the ad hominem attack. Classic. In an official DDO debate, people can vote and actually pick out a winner.

Response: Truth is based on facts. Not votes. So if it is votes you want, then I vote you won. There. So you can run along with a vote. Meanwhile, I'll rely on the evidence that clearly shows otherwise.

And still Fati refuses to say why he claims that "children like sex".
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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12/21/2015 10:00:22 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
A Muslim woman cannot deny her husband sex.(which is rape on the man's part)

And as for women that are nonmuslim? Anything goes. They are seen as less than animals and should be raped.
tstor
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12/21/2015 11:00:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 9:30:12 PM, Pase66 wrote:

Hello. I believe I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you. If you could please highlight my ignorance, I would sure appreciate it!
"I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)"
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Pase66
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12/22/2015 2:41:28 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 9:49:41 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 9:28:53 PM, Pase66 wrote:
At 12/21/2015 8:48:08 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/21/2015 8:39:38 PM, Pase66 wrote:

First off, I'm not calling a random stranger I met on the internet. That is practically among the top 5 don't do's on the internet. Second, why are you so afraid to have an official debate?

Response: You're not calling a stranger? What are you 4? I knew you were just some scared little boy trolling the internet.

A live debate is an official debate. You are afraid of being exposed.

Ah, yes, the ad hominem attack. Classic. In an official DDO debate, people can vote and actually pick out a winner.

Response: Truth is based on facts. Not votes. So if it is votes you want, then I vote you won. There. So you can run along with a vote. Meanwhile, I'll rely on the evidence that clearly shows otherwise.

So tell me, if we were to have a debate, how would we, the participants, decide who won? How would we settle it?
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Pase66
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12/22/2015 2:45:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 11:00:06 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/21/2015 9:30:12 PM, Pase66 wrote:

Hello. I believe I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you. If you could please highlight my ignorance, I would sure appreciate it!
"I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)"

Yes, and that shows my ignorance how? You do realize that the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, had sex with a girl when she was a child, right? How exactly is disproving of that act and asking someone to condemn pedophilia ignorance?
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tstor
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12/22/2015 2:53:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:45:52 AM, Pase66 wrote:

Yes, and that shows my ignorance how? You do realize that the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, had sex with a girl when she was a child, right? How exactly is disproving of that act and asking someone to condemn pedophilia ignorance?
child - a young human being below the age of puberty

As someone who has thoroughly studied Islam, I can tell you that Muhammad did not have sex with a child.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
TanusBarbarus
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12/22/2015 3:05:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Sad to say, but arguing with Fatihah (as it cannot be called debating, truly) is really a waste of time. On the issue of Aisha, and Muhammad's marriage to her at 6, and intercourse (i.e. rape) at the age of 9, you are going down a path I have been on many times before.
As a Muslim apologist, Fatihah's first line of defense has always been that Muhammad didn't have sex with her at 9, just cohabited with her, thus consummating the marriage in a different sense than is implied. This line of reasoning always fails when it is proven to him, using the Quran and respected Hadith, that the original Arabic, context and the opinions of respected Islamic scholars, imams, teachers and schools of jurisprudence all are in complete agreement that Muhammad had sex with her at 9. I don't think Fatihah ever truly doubted this fact, but was merely trying to mislead the kuffar because in his heart he knows that sex with a 9 year old girl is wrong and indefensible, no matter if the person is a so called "prophet" or not.
Step 2 in the parade of defending the indefensible is to claim that there is doubt that she actually was 9 when they had sex, as if 10, 11 or 12 is any better. This line of argument always fails as well. Go ask any respected scholar at one of the major schools of Islamic jurisprudence, Al Azhar for instance, and there is universal agreement that yes, she WAS 9, and yes, he HAD sex with her. I will believe the true experts in the Islamic community over a troll like Fatihah any day.
Step 3, when backed into a corner, is to move the goalposts back by conceding that he had sex with her at 9, but that Aisha was somehow very mature for her age.
Here is where Fatihah falls back on his final line of defense by stating that the prerequisites for a man to have sex with a female in Islam is the following -
#1 - that it be in marriage. This is clearly not true, as the Quran and numerous Hadith, in the prophets own words, clearly state that a man is entitled to have sex with women taken as spoils of battle "whom your right hand possesses". That lie aside, Fatihah says Aisha and Muhammad were married, sooooo.... one prerequisite down and so far nothing wrong as he sees it.
#2 - that the sex be consensual. This is where I have seen Fatihah go down the fundamentalist rabbit hole. When pressed on this and other forums, he has admitted that he believes that even BABIES can consent to sex, as can ANY child, even a 9 year old girl who had no choice in marrying a 40 year old man in the first place. Why someone would even make consent one of the prerequisites if one is going to have such a sickeningly loose definition of it is beyond me, much less any other civilized person out there, but we are talking about religion here, so... So using his own twisted logic, Fatihah obviously has no problem clearing the hurdle of consent that he sets as a mandate.
#3 - that she must be mature. Here is where it is even harder to nail him down, as he will constantly change the definition. In your above example he uses maturity AND puberty together, something he doesn't always do. Usually he prefers the more nebulous term "maturity" while conveniently refusing to define exactly what that entails. He doesn't use "puberty" too often because he has been forced into an untenable position on many occasions when it was shown that there are documented cases of 5 year old girls giving birth, which makes them technically sexually mature, whereupon he was forced to admit that even a five year old who had reached puberty and supposedly 'consented' to sex in marriage was a perfectly acceptable sexual partner for a Muslim male. After that fiasco, and the resulting loss of respect that forum members had for Fatihah's morals (if such a thing were even possible at that point), Fatihah tended to stick to some vague concept of undefined 'maturity' that supposedly Aisha had reached by the age of 9 that made sex with her acceptable. Forget the fact that Hadith make it clear that she could not have even reached sexual maturity when he first had sex with her, as Aisha states herself that she played with dolls while in the house of Muhammad, something that a girl who had reached puberty was forbidden to do, or that Allah sets out clear provisions for sex in marriage with those girls who have not yet menstruated.
The position Fatihah finds himself in is one of trying to defend the actions of a 40 year old man who had sex with a 9 year old girl - that man being supposedly the perfect example for all mankind for ALL TIME. If he were to EVER admit that there was intrinsically wrong with the act, he might be forced to question other actions of Muhammad. Obviously we know that the mind of a religious fanatic, of which Fatihah is a perfect example of, cannot begin to allow itself to travel down that slippery slope. Too much reason, too much careful thought, too much empathy for the plight of poor children like Aisha who have been raped for 1400 years under the legal auspices of Islam, might just lead to disbelief. Too many atheist, compassionate, critical thinkers like myself and the next thing you know, this world might actually become a better place, rather than living, killing and dying in this world for a bloodthirsty god who promises sex and riches in the next world, but who's teachings and followers make this one the only hell we will ever know.
You will never change Fatihah's mind. You can win every argument, watch as he loses every debate on this and other sites, see him get banned and suspended for breaking forum rules and ad hominem attacks, only to have him claim victory over everyone as he closes with his tagline "Debunked as Usual!"
A man who would defend the indefensible is not worth your time. He surely isn't worth mine, despite the minutes it has taken me to jump in the fray one more time. I guess I must get some strange kind of pleasure out of putting him in his place. There are far more worthy debate opponents out there who actually know HOW to debate, and how to form arguments that aren't riddled with fallacies. Fatihah doesn't fall into that category, which is why he never wins any debates. But he makes a great troll to practice on.
Anyway, back to the real world. This, as usual, was fun.
Maintaining the illusion of consciousness since 1969...
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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12/22/2015 4:04:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:05:22 AM, TanusBarbarus wrote:
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Sad to say, but arguing with Fatihah (as it cannot be called debating, truly) is really a waste of time. On the issue of Aisha, and Muhammad's marriage to her at 6, and intercourse (i.e. rape) at the age of 9, you are going down a path I have been on many times before.
As a Muslim apologist, Fatihah's first line of defense has always been that Muhammad didn't have sex with her at 9, just cohabited with her, thus consummating the marriage in a different sense than is implied. This line of reasoning always fails when it is proven to him, using the Quran and respected Hadith, that the original Arabic, context and the opinions of respected Islamic scholars, imams, teachers and schools of jurisprudence all are in complete agreement that Muhammad had sex with her at 9. I don't think Fatihah ever truly doubted this fact, but was merely trying to mislead the kuffar because in his heart he knows that sex with a 9 year old girl is wrong and indefensible, no matter if the person is a so called "prophet" or not.
Step 2 in the parade of defending the indefensible is to claim that there is doubt that she actually was 9 when they had sex, as if 10, 11 or 12 is any better. This line of argument always fails as well. Go ask any respected scholar at one of the major schools of Islamic jurisprudence, Al Azhar for instance, and there is universal agreement that yes, she WAS 9, and yes, he HAD sex with her. I will believe the true experts in the Islamic community over a troll like Fatihah any day.
Step 3, when backed into a corner, is to move the goalposts back by conceding that he had sex with her at 9, but that Aisha was somehow very mature for her age.
Here is where Fatihah falls back on his final line of defense by stating that the prerequisites for a man to have sex with a female in Islam is the following -
#1 - that it be in marriage. This is clearly not true, as the Quran and numerous Hadith, in the prophets own words, clearly state that a man is entitled to have sex with women taken as spoils of battle "whom your right hand possesses". That lie aside, Fatihah says Aisha and Muhammad were married, sooooo.... one prerequisite down and so far nothing wrong as he sees it.
#2 - that the sex be consensual. This is where I have seen Fatihah go down the fundamentalist rabbit hole. When pressed on this and other forums, he has admitted that he believes that even BABIES can consent to sex, as can ANY child, even a 9 year old girl who had no choice in marrying a 40 year old man in the first place. Why someone would even make consent one of the prerequisites if one is going to have such a sickeningly loose definition of it is beyond me, much less any other civilized person out there, but we are talking about religion here, so... So using his own twisted logic, Fatihah obviously has no problem clearing the hurdle of consent that he sets as a mandate.
#3 - that she must be mature. Here is where it is even harder to nail him down, as he will constantly change the definition. In your above example he uses maturity AND puberty together, something he doesn't always do. Usually he prefers the more nebulous term "maturity" while conveniently refusing to define exactly what that entails. He doesn't use "puberty" too often because he has been forced into an untenable position on many occasions when it was shown that there are documented cases of 5 year old girls giving birth, which makes them technically sexually mature, whereupon he was forced to admit that even a five year old who had reached puberty and supposedly 'consented' to sex in marriage was a perfectly acceptable sexual partner for a Muslim male. After that fiasco, and the resulting loss of respect that forum members had for Fatihah's morals (if such a thing were even possible at that point), Fatihah tended to stick to some vague concept of undefined 'maturity' that supposedly Aisha had reached by the age of 9 that made sex with her acceptable. Forget the fact that Hadith make it clear that she could not have even reached sexual maturity when he first had sex with her, as Aisha states herself that she played with dolls while in the house of Muhammad, something that a girl who had reached puberty was forbidden to do, or that Allah sets out clear provisions for sex in marriage with those girls who have not yet menstruated.
The position Fatihah finds himself in is one of trying to defend the actions of a 40 year old man who had sex with a 9 year old girl - that man being supposedly the perfect example for all mankind for ALL TIME. If he were to EVER admit that there was intrinsically wrong with the act, he might be forced to question other actions of Muhammad. Obviously we know that the mind of a religious fanatic, of which Fatihah is a perfect example of, cannot begin to allow itself to travel down that slippery slope. Too much reason, too much careful thought, too much empathy for the plight of poor children like Aisha who have been raped for 1400 years under the legal auspices of Islam, might just lead to disbelief. Too many atheist, compassionate, critical thinkers like myself and the next thing you know, this world might actually become a better place, rather than living, killing and dying in this world for a bloodthirsty god who promises sex and riches in the next world, but who's teachings and followers make this one the only hell we will ever know.
You will never change Fatihah's mind. You can win every argument, watch as he loses every debate on this and other sites, see him get banned and suspended for breaking forum rules and ad hominem attacks, only to have him claim victory over everyone as he closes with his tagline "Debunked as Usual!"
A man who would defend the indefensible is not worth your time. He surely isn't worth mine, despite the minutes it has taken me to jump in the fray one more time. I guess I must get some strange kind of pleasure out of putting him in his place. There are far more worthy debate opponents out there who actually know HOW to debate, and how to form arguments that aren't riddled with fallacies. Fatihah doesn't fall into that category, which is why he never wins any debates. But he makes a great troll to practice on.
Anyway, back to the real world. This, as usual, was fun.

Islam is neither civilized or honest. Based off of my own readings of the Quran, Suna, and hadithsI assume logically that even when they are "nice tous" even that is simply a lie to the unbelievers to forward the cause of Islam. When lying is permissable in an ideology, I asdume every word, every smile and every nonviolent ac
Pase66
Posts: 775
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12/22/2015 7:08:45 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:53:00 AM, tstor wrote:
At 12/22/2015 2:45:52 AM, Pase66 wrote:

Yes, and that shows my ignorance how? You do realize that the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, had sex with a girl when she was a child, right? How exactly is disproving of that act and asking someone to condemn pedophilia ignorance?
child - a young human being below the age of puberty

As someone who has thoroughly studied Islam, I can tell you that Muhammad did not have sex with a child.

Fine. A minor. Besides, we all know that having sex with girl who just reached puberty is not as bad as having sex with her before she reached puberty. And nice play on semantics, too. Tell me, do you condemn what Muhammad did, or do you support it? Or are you neutral, too afraid to "offend" a barbaric belief system?
Check out these Current Debates
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Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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12/22/2015 7:48:29 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:05:22 AM, TanusBarbarus wrote:
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Sad to say, but arguing with Fatihah (as it cannot be called debating, truly) is really a waste of time. On the issue of Aisha, and Muhammad's marriage to her at 6, and intercourse (i.e. rape) at the age of 9, you are going down a path I have been on many times before.
As a Muslim apologist, Fatihah's first line of defense has always been that Muhammad didn't have sex with her at 9, just cohabited with her, thus consummating the marriage in a different sense than is implied. This line of reasoning always fails when it is proven to him, using the Quran and respected Hadith, that the original Arabic, context and the opinions of respected Islamic scholars, imams, teachers and schools of jurisprudence all are in complete agreement that Muhammad had sex with her at 9. I don't think Fatihah ever truly doubted this fact, but was merely trying to mislead the kuffar because in his heart he knows that sex with a 9 year old girl is wrong and indefensible, no matter if the person is a so called "prophet" or not.
Step 2 in the parade of defending the indefensible is to claim that there is doubt that she actually was 9 when they had sex, as if 10, 11 or 12 is any better. This line of argument always fails as well. Go ask any respected scholar at one of the major schools of Islamic jurisprudence, Al Azhar for instance, and there is universal agreement that yes, she WAS 9, and yes, he HAD sex with her. I will believe the true experts in the Islamic community over a troll like Fatihah any day.
Step 3, when backed into a corner, is to move the goalposts back by conceding that he had sex with her at 9, but that Aisha was somehow very mature for her age.
Here is where Fatihah falls back on his final line of defense by stating that the prerequisites for a man to have sex with a female in Islam is the following -
#1 - that it be in marriage. This is clearly not true, as the Quran and numerous Hadith, in the prophets own words, clearly state that a man is entitled to have sex with women taken as spoils of battle "whom your right hand possesses". That lie aside, Fatihah says Aisha and Muhammad were married, sooooo.... one prerequisite down and so far nothing wrong as he sees it.
#2 - that the sex be consensual. This is where I have seen Fatihah go down the fundamentalist rabbit hole. When pressed on this and other forums, he has admitted that he believes that even BABIES can consent to sex, as can ANY child, even a 9 year old girl who had no choice in marrying a 40 year old man in the first place. Why someone would even make consent one of the prerequisites if one is going to have such a sickeningly loose definition of it is beyond me, much less any other civilized person out there, but we are talking about religion here, so... So using his own twisted logic, Fatihah obviously has no problem clearing the hurdle of consent that he sets as a mandate.
#3 - that she must be mature. Here is where it is even harder to nail him down, as he will constantly change the definition. In your above example he uses maturity AND puberty together, something he doesn't always do. Usually he prefers the more nebulous term "maturity" while conveniently refusing to define exactly what that entails. He doesn't use "puberty" too often because he has been forced into an untenable position on many occasions when it was shown that there are documented cases of 5 year old girls giving birth, which makes them technically sexually mature, whereupon he was forced to admit that even a five year old who had reached puberty and supposedly 'consented' to sex in marriage was a perfectly acceptable sexual partner for a Muslim male. After that fiasco, and the resulting loss of respect that forum members had for Fatihah's morals (if such a thing were even possible at that point), Fatihah tended to stick to some vague concept of undefined 'maturity' that supposedly Aisha had reached by the age of 9 that made sex with her acceptable. Forget the fact that Hadith make it clear that she could not have even reached sexual maturity when he first had sex with her, as Aisha states herself that she played with dolls while in the house of Muhammad, something that a girl who had reached puberty was forbidden to do, or that Allah sets out clear provisions for sex in marriage with those girls who have not yet menstruated.
The position Fatihah finds himself in is one of trying to defend the actions of a 40 year old man who had sex with a 9 year old girl - that man being supposedly the perfect example for all mankind for ALL TIME. If he were to EVER admit that there was intrinsically wrong with the act, he might be forced to question other actions of Muhammad. Obviously we know that the mind of a religious fanatic, of which Fatihah is a perfect example of, cannot begin to allow itself to travel down that slippery slope. Too much reason, too much careful thought, too much empathy for the plight of poor children like Aisha who have been raped for 1400 years under the legal auspices of Islam, might just lead to disbelief. Too many atheist, compassionate, critical thinkers like myself and the next thing you know, this world might actually become a better place, rather than living, killing and dying in this world for a bloodthirsty god who promises sex and riches in the next world, but who's teachings and followers make this one the only hell we will ever know.
You will never change Fatihah's mind. You can win every argument, watch as he loses every debate on this and other sites, see him get banned and suspended for breaking forum rules and ad hominem attacks, only to have him claim victory over everyone as he closes with his tagline "Debunked as Usual!"
A man who would defend the indefensible is not worth your time. He surely isn't worth mine, despite the minutes it has taken me to jump in the fray one more time. I guess I must get some strange kind of pleasure out of putting him in his place. There are far more worthy debate opponents out there who actually know HOW to debate, and how to form arguments that aren't riddled with fallacies. Fatihah doesn't fall into that category, which is why he never wins any debates. But he makes a great troll to practice on.
Anyway, back to the real world. This, as usual, was fun.

Response: People who run and hide when I expose them should never say anything. For you and I both know how much you fear me in debate, as you make random posts like that above, then disappear for months or years before you show your face again. So there's no need to even respond. When you are ready to man up, let us all know
Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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12/22/2015 7:57:19 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 2:41:28 AM, Pase66 wrote:

So tell me, if we were to have a debate, how would we, the participants, decide who won? How would we settle it?

Response: If you are referring to the live debate that you keep running from (because you are obviously scared), you can post the video of the debate here in the forum if your ego really needs votes that badly.

As in the case when I had a dialogue with Outplayz. See link below:

https://www.youtube.com...

So now what is your excuse? You have none, yet still run.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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12/22/2015 8:37:19 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 7:57:19 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/22/2015 2:41:28 AM, Pase66 wrote:

So tell me, if we were to have a debate, how would we, the participants, decide who won? How would we settle it?

Response: If you are referring to the live debate that you keep running from (because you are obviously scared), you can post the video of the debate here in the forum if your ego really needs votes that badly.

As in the case when I had a dialogue with Outplayz. See link below:

https://www.youtube.com...




So now what is your excuse? You have none, yet still run.

So why does Fati run and hide from justifying his claims that "children like sex"?
shalal12
Posts: 303
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12/22/2015 9:53:17 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Challenge him in a debate if you are really looking for a fair discussion. Do it man!! Challenge him and send us message. We are all ear and lo0king forward for it! Carry out!
graceofgod
Posts: 5,037
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12/22/2015 9:57:34 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:
Recently, I have been having a "conversation" with a muslim by the username of Fatihah. Although I never do this, I would like to bring this to the attention of other DDOers on the religion forum. After arguing on the topic of raping 9 year old girls, I have condemned the practice, whereas Fatihah hasn't, all the while him accusing me of condoning that sick practice. Here's the text.

At 12/21/2015 6:23:07 PM, Pase66 wrote:

I will state it loud and clear: I do not support raping 9 year old girls. Now, why don't you state it, and condemn the actions of your prophet? C'mon man, just do it! Now, having sex with legal age people with consent who are of the opposite sex, I do not mind ;)

(Fatihah's response)
Response: So after exposing that your ideology condones raping 9 year olds and using people for your own sexual perverted interests, you now suggest I should condemn the prophet. Yet unlike your perverted ideology, the Prophet practice consensual sex in marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Unlike your ideology that supports molesting people regardless of age to satisfy one's perverted desires. Debunked as usual
(End of Fatihah's response)

Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy?

Well muslims will have a problem with you not agreeing as their example on ho wto live muhammered was indeed a paedophile, then the infamous ayatollah khomeini wrote a book explaining how the "thighing" and even penetration of babies was acceptable to allah, the act of "thighing" is still going on today..
We have the problem of muslim grooming gangs and rape all over the world so it seems to be in their cultural ways...
shalal12
Posts: 303
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12/22/2015 10:00:03 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 7:48:29 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:05:22 AM, TanusBarbarus wrote:
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:

Response: People who run and hide when I expose them should never say anything. For you and I both know how much you fear me in debate, as you make random posts like that above, then disappear for months or years before you show your face again. So there's no need to even respond. When you are ready to man up, let us all know

He may need to change the user name!
LOL!
Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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12/22/2015 10:20:25 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 10:00:03 AM, shalal12 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 7:48:29 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:05:22 AM, TanusBarbarus wrote:
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:

Response: People who run and hide when I expose them should never say anything. For you and I both know how much you fear me in debate, as you make random posts like that above, then disappear for months or years before you show your face again. So there's no need to even respond. When you are ready to man up, let us all know

He may need to change the user name!
LOL!

Response: Indeed. :-)
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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12/22/2015 10:30:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 10:20:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/22/2015 10:00:03 AM, shalal12 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 7:48:29 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:05:22 AM, TanusBarbarus wrote:
At 12/21/2015 6:55:23 PM, Pase66 wrote:

Response: People who run and hide when I expose them should never say anything. For you and I both know how much you fear me in debate, as you make random posts like that above, then disappear for months or years before you show your face again. So there's no need to even respond. When you are ready to man up, let us all know

He may need to change the user name!
LOL!

Response: Indeed. :-)

Fati has no response when challenged on his claim that "children like sex".