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Warfare rape in Islam Christianity & Judaism

Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/23/2015 11:28:43 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
It's generally not talked about due to it being such a taboo topic, and when it is talked about it's often misunderstood.

In the story of Sodom/Gomorrah, an entire city is condemned due to their practice of homosexual intercourse. However, it's been pointed out that since the concept of love between similar genders did not exist at that time, homosexual sex more likely described the practice of male rape as a form of warfare. For example, a travelling caravan from a foreign nation with bad history would be a target. The people of the city would want to avoid killing them in order to prevent all out war. However, raping the entire group of foreigners would have effectively demonstrated their statement of superiority without the more definite act of aggression inherent in murder.

This is also demonstrated by the fact that civilians were counted as legitimate 'spoils of war,' in the Islam and Judaic religions. This means that you could forcibly marry (effectively rape) the women of the conquered nations.In modern times, this practice receives an interesting amount of disgust. At the time, rape was a tool for war, assimilation, and cultural suppression. These concepts are foreign to us now, however they were highly relevant at the time. In order to destroy an enemy culture (which was required to eradicate child sacrifice at one point for the Jews), The vast majority of the population needed to be exterminated. Survivors were allowed so long as they were assimilated into the culture via marriage with one of the people of that nation.

Today there is an assumption that ancient rape was purely maliciously motivated. On the contrary, even genocide was considered normal for achieving a nation's goals. Speaking from the benefits of a technologically sophisticated and socially secure society tends to form inaccurate judgements about cultures and nations who don't share our good fortunes.

The problem would arise if we believe that such acts are still required today. In Christianity at least, there are no grounds that allow rape. However, Islam and Judaism have not changed since the ancient practices of rape were condoned. Re: Isis raping all the women who they capture.

Tl;dr: Life was brutal in ancient times. Expect rape and murder.
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uncung
Posts: 3,433
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12/23/2015 12:33:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 11:28:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It's generally not talked about due to it being such a taboo topic, and when it is talked about it's often misunderstood.

In the story of Sodom/Gomorrah, an entire city is condemned due to their practice of homosexual intercourse. However, it's been pointed out that since the concept of love between similar genders did not exist at that time, homosexual sex more likely described the practice of male rape as a form of warfare. For example, a travelling caravan from a foreign nation with bad history would be a target. The people of the city would want to avoid killing them in order to prevent all out war. However, raping the entire group of foreigners would have effectively demonstrated their statement of superiority without the more definite act of aggression inherent in murder.

This is also demonstrated by the fact that civilians were counted as legitimate 'spoils of war,' in the Islam and Judaic religions. This means that you could forcibly marry (effectively rape) the women of the conquered nations.In modern times, this practice receives an interesting amount of disgust. At the time, rape was a tool for war, assimilation, and cultural suppression. These concepts are foreign to us now, however they were highly relevant at the time. In order to destroy an enemy culture (which was required to eradicate child sacrifice at one point for the Jews), The vast majority of the population needed to be exterminated. Survivors were allowed so long as they were assimilated into the culture via marriage with one of the people of that nation.

Today there is an assumption that ancient rape was purely maliciously motivated. On the contrary, even genocide was considered normal for achieving a nation's goals. Speaking from the benefits of a technologically sophisticated and socially secure society tends to form inaccurate judgements about cultures and nations who don't share our good fortunes.

The problem would arise if we believe that such acts are still required today. In Christianity at least, there are no grounds that allow rape. However, Islam and Judaism have not changed since the ancient practices of rape were condoned. Re: Isis raping all the women who they capture.

Tl;dr: Life was brutal in ancient times. Expect rape and murder.

You imply Islam still in original and is practiced according to the religious book.
Meanwhile, Christians do longer practice their holy book particularly the passages that contains brutal content.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/23/2015 1:50:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 11:28:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:

- I've seen you on the Forums. You gave the impression of a serious member; So, I am responding to this based on a that assumption. I don't know about Judaism or Christianity, if there are Jews or Christians around they may chime in this. Since I a Muslim, I shall elaborate on what Islam had to say about all this.

It's generally not talked about due to it being such a taboo topic, and when it is talked about it's often misunderstood.

- I think that has to do more with: emotional burden, & ignorance.

In the story of Sodom/Gomorrah, an entire city is condemned due to their practice of homosexual intercourse. However, it's been pointed out that since the concept of love between similar genders did not exist at that time, homosexual sex more likely described the practice of male rape as a form of warfare.

- They weren't at war with themselves!

For example, a travelling caravan from a foreign nation with bad history would be a target. The people of the city would want to avoid killing them in order to prevent all out war. However, raping the entire group of foreigners would have effectively demonstrated their statement of superiority without the more definite act of aggression inherent in murder.

- I don't think this is even remotely accurate. This is pure conjecture.

This is also demonstrated by the fact that civilians were counted as legitimate 'spoils of war,' in the Islam and Judaic religions.

- That's not a fact. It's falsehood. In Islam, only POWs may be deemed 'spoils of war', under like a ton of conditions. Spoils of war consist of 4 things:
1. Male Combatants.
2. Female POWs.
3. Lands.
4. Assets.

This means that you could forcibly marry (effectively rape) the women of the conquered nations.

- No you can't, as far as Islam is concerned that is. Rape, even in war, is severely punished in Shari'a.

In modern times, this practice receives an interesting amount of disgust.

- While being OK with equally disgusting practices.

At the time, rape was a tool for war, assimilation, and cultural suppression.

- Nothing much has changed. Remember Abu Ghrib?!

These concepts are foreign to us now, however they were highly relevant at the time.

- I am pretty sure the most brutal forms of rape still happen in wars today.

In order to destroy an enemy culture (which was required to eradicate child sacrifice at one point for the Jews), The vast majority of the population needed to be exterminated.

- According to Islam, only POWs are subject, in this particular order, to being: exchanged, ransomed, freed, imprisoned, enslaved or executed. Depending on the circumstances & a lot of conditions.

Survivors were allowed so long as they were assimilated into the culture via marriage with one of the people of that nation.

- That's fundamentally anti-Islamic. One: survivors, in this case, would mean the vast majority of the population, usually almost all of it. Two: systematically assimilating non-Muslim cultures into Muslim culture (or the opposite) is prohibited in Shari'a. During the Arab Conquests, for instance, the conquered people still had their own communities, their own laws & their own governments. Those who marry into the Muslim community are either ordinary willing civilians or ex-POWs.

Today there is an assumption that ancient rape was purely maliciously motivated. On the contrary, even genocide was considered normal for achieving a nation's goals.

- It is always possible that a set of circumstances would perfectly justify even genocide. Nothing ancient or modern about this.

Speaking from the benefits of a technologically sophisticated and socially secure society tends to form inaccurate judgements about cultures and nations who don't share our good fortunes.

- I don't think you realise how effed up War is today. You're probably referring to a very tiny fraction of History, of no more than few decades, in some parts of the West.

The problem would arise if we believe that such acts are still required today.

- It's not like they were required before.

In Christianity at least, there are no grounds that allow rape.

- Well, glad to hear that. But, Christians of Central Africa & Congo would disagree.

However, Islam and Judaism have not changed since the ancient practices of rape were condoned.

- I don't know where you're getting this, & it's not like I am surprised. But no 'ancient practices of rape' have ever been condoned in Islam.

Re: Isis raping all the women who they capture.

- Like Americans raping their prisoners.

Tl;dr: Life was brutal in ancient times. Expect rape and murder.

- There are tons of rape & murder in warfare around the World today. Nothing ancient about it.
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Fatihah
Posts: 7,716
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12/23/2015 2:06:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 11:28:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It's generally not talked about due to it being such a taboo topic, and when it is talked about it's often misunderstood.

In the story of Sodom/Gomorrah, an entire city is condemned due to their practice of homosexual intercourse. However, it's been pointed out that since the concept of love between similar genders did not exist at that time, homosexual sex more likely described the practice of male rape as a form of warfare. For example, a travelling caravan from a foreign nation with bad history would be a target. The people of the city would want to avoid killing them in order to prevent all out war. However, raping the entire group of foreigners would have effectively demonstrated their statement of superiority without the more definite act of aggression inherent in murder.

This is also demonstrated by the fact that civilians were counted as legitimate 'spoils of war,' in the Islam and Judaic religions. This means that you could forcibly marry (effectively rape) the women of the conquered nations.In modern times, this practice receives an interesting amount of disgust. At the time, rape was a tool for war, assimilation, and cultural suppression. These concepts are foreign to us now, however they were highly relevant at the time. In order to destroy an enemy culture (which was required to eradicate child sacrifice at one point for the Jews), The vast majority of the population needed to be exterminated. Survivors were allowed so long as they were assimilated into the culture via marriage with one of the people of that nation.

Today there is an assumption that ancient rape was purely maliciously motivated. On the contrary, even genocide was considered normal for achieving a nation's goals. Speaking from the benefits of a technologically sophisticated and socially secure society tends to form inaccurate judgements about cultures and nations who don't share our good fortunes.

The problem would arise if we believe that such acts are still required today. In Christianity at least, there are no grounds that allow rape. However, Islam and Judaism have not changed since the ancient practices of rape were condoned. Re: Isis raping all the women who they capture.

Tl;dr: Life was brutal in ancient times. Expect rape and murder.

Response: Qur'an clearly mentions not to inherit women against their will (4:19). No such statement in the Bible.

Islam wins.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/23/2015 2:13:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 2:06:56 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/23/2015 11:28:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It's generally not talked about due to it being such a taboo topic, and when it is talked about it's often misunderstood.

In the story of Sodom/Gomorrah, an entire city is condemned due to their practice of homosexual intercourse. However, it's been pointed out that since the concept of love between similar genders did not exist at that time, homosexual sex more likely described the practice of male rape as a form of warfare. For example, a travelling caravan from a foreign nation with bad history would be a target. The people of the city would want to avoid killing them in order to prevent all out war. However, raping the entire group of foreigners would have effectively demonstrated their statement of superiority without the more definite act of aggression inherent in murder.

This is also demonstrated by the fact that civilians were counted as legitimate 'spoils of war,' in the Islam and Judaic religions. This means that you could forcibly marry (effectively rape) the women of the conquered nations.In modern times, this practice receives an interesting amount of disgust. At the time, rape was a tool for war, assimilation, and cultural suppression. These concepts are foreign to us now, however they were highly relevant at the time. In order to destroy an enemy culture (which was required to eradicate child sacrifice at one point for the Jews), The vast majority of the population needed to be exterminated. Survivors were allowed so long as they were assimilated into the culture via marriage with one of the people of that nation.

Today there is an assumption that ancient rape was purely maliciously motivated. On the contrary, even genocide was considered normal for achieving a nation's goals. Speaking from the benefits of a technologically sophisticated and socially secure society tends to form inaccurate judgements about cultures and nations who don't share our good fortunes.

The problem would arise if we believe that such acts are still required today. In Christianity at least, there are no grounds that allow rape. However, Islam and Judaism have not changed since the ancient practices of rape were condoned. Re: Isis raping all the women who they capture.

Tl;dr: Life was brutal in ancient times. Expect rape and murder.

Response: Qur'an clearly mentions not to inherit women against their will (4:19). No such statement in the Bible.

Islam wins.
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Inherit............................................how obscene can you get. You inherit a dressing table not a human unless you are a muslim.
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DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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12/23/2015 4:15:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 11:28:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It's generally not talked about due to it being such a taboo topic, and when it is talked about it's often misunderstood.

In the story of Sodom/Gomorrah, an entire city is condemned due to their practice of homosexual intercourse. However, it's been pointed out that since the concept of love between similar genders did not exist at that time,

How do you know? Where you there? How is it that human nature was different then, then it is now? Or do the "modern thinkers" in their "modern world" want to believe they are superior beings compared to those who aren"t like their "modern selves".
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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12/23/2015 4:36:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 11:28:43 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It's generally not talked about due to it being such a taboo topic, and when it is talked about it's often misunderstood.

In the story of Sodom/Gomorrah, an entire city is condemned due to their practice of homosexual intercourse. However, it's been pointed out that since the concept of love between similar genders did not exist at that time, homosexual sex more likely described the practice of male rape as a form of warfare. For example, a travelling caravan from a foreign nation with bad history would be a target. The people of the city would want to avoid killing them in order to prevent all out war. However, raping the entire group of foreigners would have effectively demonstrated their statement of superiority without the more definite act of aggression inherent in murder.

This is also demonstrated by the fact that civilians were counted as legitimate 'spoils of war,' in the Islam and Judaic religions. This means that you could forcibly marry (effectively rape) the women of the conquered nations.In modern times, this practice receives an interesting amount of disgust. At the time, rape was a tool for war, assimilation, and cultural suppression. These concepts are foreign to us now, however they were highly relevant at the time. In order to destroy an enemy culture (which was required to eradicate child sacrifice at one point for the Jews), The vast majority of the population needed to be exterminated. Survivors were allowed so long as they were assimilated into the culture via marriage with one of the people of that nation.

Today there is an assumption that ancient rape was purely maliciously motivated. On the contrary, even genocide was considered normal for achieving a nation's goals. Speaking from the benefits of a technologically sophisticated and socially secure society tends to form inaccurate judgements about cultures and nations who don't share our good fortunes.

The problem would arise if we believe that such acts are still required today. In Christianity at least, there are no grounds that allow rape. However, Islam and Judaism have not changed since the ancient practices of rape were condoned. Re: Isis raping all the women who they capture.

Tl;dr: Life was brutal in ancient times. Expect rape and murder.

Where has it been pointed out that "the concept of love between similar genders did not exist" in ancient biblical times? And what makes genders "similar" as opposed to "the same"?
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