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Question for jw's???

graceofgod
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12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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12/27/2015 1:57:19 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!
I am not a JW, but I can answer this question. The Bible trumps all else. So ideally a JW would recognize the error and mention it to an elder. From there it would have to be brought up to the Governing Body for review. However, let's say that the GB hypothetically did not want to change despite a teaching being unscriptural, then faithful JWs would naturally have to leave.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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12/27/2015 2:18:19 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

Neither are credible!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself, knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me. If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

However, whilst I realise fully that it is impossible to trust any human, I do trust Jehovah. I shall continue to do so.

In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible, and under no circumstances would I disturb the unity of teaching that Christ shares with his father, and that the Apostles also insisted on.

John 17:11 American Standard Version (ASV)

11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

John 17:22 American Standard Version (ASV)

22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

1 Corinthians 1:10American Standard Version (ASV)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/27/2015 3:36:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 1:57:19 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!
I am not a JW, but I can answer this question. The Bible trumps all else. So ideally a JW would recognize the error and mention it to an elder. From there it would have to be brought up to the Governing Body for review. However, let's say that the GB hypothetically did not want to change despite a teaching being unscriptural, then faithful JWs would naturally have to leave.

That's a pretty good summation.

As you say, scripture trumps everything, but trust in Jehovah allows us to wait his time for the matter to be sorted out without breaking Christian Unity.

We have no right to question what Jehovah allows.
graceofgod
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12/27/2015 8:17:21 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 1:57:19 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!
I am not a JW, but I can answer this question. The Bible trumps all else. So ideally a JW would recognize the error and mention it to an elder. From there it would have to be brought up to the Governing Body for review. However, let's say that the GB hypothetically did not want to change despite a teaching being unscriptural, then faithful JWs would naturally have to leave.

not a jw...lol do you really think anyone believes you..??
graceofgod
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12/27/2015 8:18:22 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 2:18:19 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

Neither are credible!
the jw mistakes , changes, changes back, complete stupid statements are all very well documented.....
graceofgod
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12/27/2015 8:19:48 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself, knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me. If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

However, whilst I realise fully that it is impossible to trust any human, I do trust Jehovah. I shall continue to do so.

In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible, and under no circumstances would I disturb the unity of teaching that Christ shares with his father, and that the Apostles also insisted on.

John 17:11 American Standard Version (ASV)

11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

John 17:22 American Standard Version (ASV)

22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

1 Corinthians 1:10American Standard Version (ASV)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.

trusting God is the right thing to do, if you do that you cannot trust the jw organisation in any way they have proved over and over again to misrepresent God...
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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12/27/2015 11:53:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 8:17:21 PM, graceofgod wrote:

not a jw...lol do you really think anyone believes you..??
Do you really think that I need anyone to believe me?
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/28/2015 2:35:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 8:19:48 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself, knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me. If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

However, whilst I realise fully that it is impossible to trust any human, I do trust Jehovah. I shall continue to do so.

In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible, and under no circumstances would I disturb the unity of teaching that Christ shares with his father, and that the Apostles also insisted on.

John 17:11 American Standard Version (ASV)

11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

John 17:22 American Standard Version (ASV)

22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

1 Corinthians 1:10American Standard Version (ASV)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.

trusting God is the right thing to do, if you do that you cannot trust the jw organisation in any way they have proved over and over again to misrepresent God...

But Jehovah has always corrected them in his own good time, and they have accepted his corrections..

You misrepresent God every time you post, but who will correct you? Will you accept Jehovah's corrections to your false teachings?

The one who accepts correction is highly valued by Jehovah.

The one who stubbornly clings to their demonstrably false teachings despite Jehovah's correction through his servants will die with his false beliefs.

The choice is yours.

Like Tstor, I do not need you to believe what I post, though it is Jehovah's word not mine.

It is you who has the need to believe, and you who will be judged for not believing, so you had better be very careful to test out your beliefs as all who follow Christ must do, continually.

Your eternal life depends on you finding the right road Matthew 7:13-14, and as Christ said, few will find it.

You are right. You cannot trust the Governing body not to make mistakes.

However you can trust in Jehovah to continue to correct them as and when he sees fit.

If he hasn't corrected something yet, that is because he does not yet want it corrected. Are you gig to tell him he is wrong?

After all, he didn't even correct Christ immediately did he?

Nor did he hide the errors from us as he so easily could have done.

No, he left us there for us to learn from. Are you prepared to learn?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/28/2015 2:41:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 8:18:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 12/27/2015 2:18:19 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

Neither are credible!
the jw mistakes , changes, changes back, complete stupid statements are all very well documented.....

But not very accurately as you have shown.

You quote a few words from an article as if that shows all the article teaches.

Yes, your quotations are accurate, and cherry picked as you have picked them can appear to show a change of belief backwards and forwards.

But do they really show that? Or are they merely viewing different aspects of the same subject from different angles so that we can make up our own minds?

People like you value truth so little that you are happy to mislead others by cherry picking things to show only what you want to show, something that the JWs are often accused of doing, though if they do at least their intention is not to deceive.

I cannot judge whether your intention is to deceive, or if you simply don;t care that you do as long as you are seen to be right, but Jehovah knows, and so does his son, and either way you condemn yourself.

Truth is too important to play with as carelessly as you do.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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12/28/2015 2:45:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 2:35:29 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
But Jehovah has always corrected them in his own good time, and they have accepted his corrections..
How could he correct them when nothing they have ever published are their words, they are the words of your god and by extension your god was correcting himself.
Are you sure he knows all?
As funny as it gets.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/28/2015 3:16:21 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 2:45:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2015 2:35:29 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
But Jehovah has always corrected them in his own good time, and they have accepted his corrections..
How could he correct them when nothing they have ever published are their words, they are the words of your god and by extension your god was correcting himself.
Are you sure he knows all?
As funny as it gets.

You seem to be completely incapable of learning don't you.

As you well know they left that declaration behind a long time ago. They have to because Jehovah allowed them to make fools of themselves so publicly.

It is a good many decades since they thought that every word they published came directly from God.

However, unlike them, you seem incapable of learning, lol.

Jehovah showed some of the many ways he can correct his servants, not least being the way he corrected his son's errors back then.

Even with Christ's two errors Jehovah neither corrected him immediately, nor hid the errors.

No, he let events prove his own son wrong, and made sure that at least two of his errors were recorded for posterity.

It has proved no different with the JWs. Why should it? They are not better than his own son.

Maybe its about time you started learning something.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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12/28/2015 3:35:59 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 3:16:21 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/28/2015 2:45:55 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2015 2:35:29 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
But Jehovah has always corrected them in his own good time, and they have accepted his corrections..
How could he correct them when nothing they have ever published are their words, they are the words of your god and by extension your god was correcting himself.
Are you sure he knows all?
As funny as it gets.

You seem to be completely incapable of learning don't you.

As you well know they left that declaration behind a long time ago. They have to because Jehovah allowed them to make fools of themselves so publicly.

It is a good many decades since they thought that every word they published came directly from God.

However, unlike them, you seem incapable of learning, lol.
I'm OK it's you who can't read remember?
Jehovah showed some of the many ways he can correct his servants, not least being the way he corrected his son's errors back then.
Hahahaha, he corrected his son when he corrected the jehovians. Damn you're funny.
Even with Christ's two errors Jehovah neither corrected him immediately, nor hid the errors.
You god told the jehovians that all that they published were his words and now the jehovians have called their god a liar, I see.
No, he let events prove his own son wrong, and made sure that at least two of his errors were recorded for posterity.
For all the decades that the jehovians were passing on the words of their god either they were lying or their god was. It's your choice.
It has proved no different with the JWs. Why should it? They are not better than his own son.
They can only repeat what their god tells them, I mean the whole trinity that is always in your presence. Or do your gods LIE?
Maybe its about time you started learning something.
I know that you can only lie as we have all shown on here for years, it's a shame that you are too stupid to even know that you are stupid.
LMFAO
graceofgod
Posts: 5,104
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12/29/2015 5:26:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 11:53:00 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/27/2015 8:17:21 PM, graceofgod wrote:

not a jw...lol do you really think anyone believes you..??
Do you really think that I need anyone to believe me?

clearly you do otherwise you would drop the facade...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,104
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12/29/2015 5:28:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 2:35:29 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/27/2015 8:19:48 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself, knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me. If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

However, whilst I realise fully that it is impossible to trust any human, I do trust Jehovah. I shall continue to do so.

In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible, and under no circumstances would I disturb the unity of teaching that Christ shares with his father, and that the Apostles also insisted on.

John 17:11 American Standard Version (ASV)

11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

John 17:22 American Standard Version (ASV)

22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

1 Corinthians 1:10American Standard Version (ASV)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.

trusting God is the right thing to do, if you do that you cannot trust the jw organisation in any way they have proved over and over again to misrepresent God...

But Jehovah has always corrected them in his own good time, and they have accepted his corrections..

You misrepresent God every time you post, but who will correct you? Will you accept Jehovah's corrections to your false teachings?

The one who accepts correction is highly valued by Jehovah.

The one who stubbornly clings to their demonstrably false teachings despite Jehovah's correction through his servants will die with his false beliefs.

The choice is yours.

Like Tstor, I do not need you to believe what I post, though it is Jehovah's word not mine.

It is you who has the need to believe, and you who will be judged for not believing, so you had better be very careful to test out your beliefs as all who follow Christ must do, continually.

Your eternal life depends on you finding the right road Matthew 7:13-14, and as Christ said, few will find it.

You are right. You cannot trust the Governing body not to make mistakes.

However you can trust in Jehovah to continue to correct them as and when he sees fit.

If he hasn't corrected something yet, that is because he does not yet want it corrected. Are you gig to tell him he is wrong?

After all, he didn't even correct Christ immediately did he?

Nor did he hide the errors from us as he so easily could have done.

No, he left us there for us to learn from. Are you prepared to learn?

again, why would they need correcting at all if God told them??

how does the correction work when it goes back to what it was after they change it again, it was either right or wrong first tie....

you mean correct michael don't you???
graceofgod
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12/29/2015 5:30:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 2:41:00 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/27/2015 8:18:22 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 12/27/2015 2:18:19 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

Neither are credible!
the jw mistakes , changes, changes back, complete stupid statements are all very well documented.....

But not very accurately as you have shown.

You quote a few words from an article as if that shows all the article teaches.

Yes, your quotations are accurate, and cherry picked as you have picked them can appear to show a change of belief backwards and forwards.

But do they really show that? Or are they merely viewing different aspects of the same subject from different angles so that we can make up our own minds?

People like you value truth so little that you are happy to mislead others by cherry picking things to show only what you want to show, something that the JWs are often accused of doing, though if they do at least their intention is not to deceive.

I cannot judge whether your intention is to deceive, or if you simply don;t care that you do as long as you are seen to be right, but Jehovah knows, and so does his son, and either way you condemn yourself.

Truth is too important to play with as carelessly as you do.

the articles are not cherry picked, if you showed them all you would not get the posts on this forum .....

they are all clear deceits as was beth sarim and all the attempts at the end of the world guesses...

yes truth is too important but it is not something the jw's love to claim to have yet demonstrate no knowledge of it... the same can be said for revelation...
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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12/29/2015 6:05:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

LMAO. A pretty piss-poor substitute, I'd say - and dangerously close to the claim to apostolic authority advanced by the Catholic Church.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself,

Of course ya would! Even when the Governing Body spews out ridiculous claims.

knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me.

Jehovah isn't "correcting" them or you.

If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

I see it did you a lot of good.

In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible

That's what they want you to do: STFU and keep promoting the WatchTower!

I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

The WatchTower has never once "ran ahead of what Jehovah directs".

Christ didn't "run ahead of what Jehovah directs", either.

However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.

You've been asked before: exactly HOW MANY mistakes would the WatchTower have to make in order for you to realize that Jehovah isn't really guiding them at all? I can assure you that if you require numbers in the single- or double-digits, they've already past that.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
tstor
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12/29/2015 9:07:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 5:26:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:

clearly you do otherwise you would drop the facade...
Me stating something does not inherently indicate necessity.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
graceofgod
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12/29/2015 10:13:38 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 9:07:49 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/29/2015 5:26:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:

clearly you do otherwise you would drop the facade...
Me stating something does not inherently indicate necessity.

you showing it then deny it constantly certainly does...

oops you dropped your jw timesheets.... lol knew you would fall for that one...
tstor
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12/30/2015 12:05:41 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 10:13:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:

you showing it then deny it constantly certainly does...
Showing that I am a JW? I have never made that claim. Read my profile.

oops you dropped your jw timesheets.... lol knew you would fall for that one...
What?
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/30/2015 12:26:42 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 10:13:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 12/29/2015 9:07:49 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/29/2015 5:26:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:

clearly you do otherwise you would drop the facade...
Me stating something does not inherently indicate necessity.

you showing it then deny it constantly certainly does...

oops you dropped your jw timesheets.... lol knew you would fall for that one...

In fact Tstor, is right, he isn't a JW, though like me he does share their belief in scripture above all else.

I don't doubt for one moment that he will be one before too long though.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/30/2015 12:41:31 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 6:05:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

LMAO. A pretty piss-poor substitute, I'd say - and dangerously close to the claim to apostolic authority advanced by the Catholic Church.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself,

Of course ya would! Even when the Governing Body spews out ridiculous claims.

knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me.

Jehovah isn't "correcting" them or you.

If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

I see it did you a lot of good.

In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible

That's what they want you to do: STFU and keep promoting the WatchTower!

I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

The WatchTower has never once "ran ahead of what Jehovah directs".

Christ didn't "run ahead of what Jehovah directs", either.

However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.

You've been asked before: exactly HOW MANY mistakes would the WatchTower have to make in order for you to realize that Jehovah isn't really guiding them at all? I can assure you that if you require numbers in the single- or double-digits, they've already past that.

It is impossible to answer that. Remember jesus words when Peter asked him how many times his brother could forgive him before he could stop forgiving him?

There is no greater sin against a Brother than teaching them the wrong things, so I suppose my answer to you would have to be the same as that of Jesus to Peter. "not up to 7 times, but up to 77 me"?

Why?

Because it is not a case of trusting them. They are only human.

I trust Jehovah, and that is enough. I don't need to trust any man.

I have seen far more than enough evidence to prove that they are indeed Jehovah's channel, the equivalent of the "Apostles and Older Men in Jerusalem" who were Jehovah's channel in the first century.

Am I to lose faith in Jesus because he made at least two mistakes?

If Jehovah did not, cease trusting his son why should I do so?

You can twist scripture to deny the mistake about the form of his resurrection but there is absolutely nothing you can do to deny his error over the amount of time he would be in the grave.

If he had been saying three days and three nights and he knew differently then he was lying, and I don't believe he would have done that. Therefore he cannot have known better.

Would you have turned your back on Peter for the mistakes he made, even after Jesus resurrection?

No! Never may that be.

No, as long as the WTBTS prove to be Jehovah's channel, I shall continue to have faith in his ability to correct them.

And he will continue to correct them. It is now far too close to the time of the end for him to abandon them and gather another group to his son's side.

He left it as late as he could before he started gathering them, after all it was 1800 years, before his son started the needed training.

He only gathered them in then because time was short and the message needed spreading.

There is no time left to repeat it.

Therefore he will, of necessity, use them and sort them out as and when needed.
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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12/30/2015 12:42:51 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I'm a Jehovah's Witness and every point they bring to the table is based on bible scriptures. I'm aware that there's been some errors in the past. But this is to be expected in a imperfect world ruled by Satan.

Jehovah's Witness seem to gather such a bad rep, which I find puzzling since 90% of the people attending are the sweetest people on the planet.. We just want to live in a peaceful, loving world free from corruption and evil.. And we value such traits as Loyalty, Humility, Integrity, Love, Honour, Kindness etc etc..

I highly recommend you guys take a few minutes to glance over the following webpage:
https://www.jw.org...

It contains accurate information about God, Jesus and Life in general.. The information as you will see is all based on bible scripture and extremely logical..

(Matthew 24:14) New International Version (NIV)
14: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

WHAT DO THE FACTS SHOW? The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. That is an average of 30 minutes in the preaching work each day by every Witness. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of Bible-education literature.
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/30/2015 12:53:40 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 6:05:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

LMAO. A pretty piss-poor substitute, I'd say - and dangerously close to the claim to apostolic authority advanced by the Catholic Church.

Of course you would, because you don't want to believe it.

It is true none the less, they are what they are.

They are certainly a much better choice than such as you who isn't even prepared to admit your most obvious errors.

At least they have accepted theirs.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself,


Of course ya would! Even when the Governing Body spews out ridiculous claims.

knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me.

Jehovah isn't "correcting" them or you.

I know that is what you want to believe, but the evidence says differently.

And I know that, as Paul puts it, Jehovah's spirit bears witness with my spirit. There is no possibility of doubting that.


If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

I see it did you a lot of good.

Yes it did, though there is no way you would know or accept that fact.


In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible

That's what they want you to do: STFU and keep promoting the WatchTower!

No. Keep promoting scripture, and Jehovah's channel for the dissemination of information.


I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

The WatchTower has never once "ran ahead of what Jehovah directs".

Christ didn't "run ahead of what Jehovah directs", either.

Actually he did, on at least two occasions, as you well know.

He "ran ahead" when he made the error about his resurrection.

He "ran ahead" when he got the amount of time he would be in the grave wrong.

That is what running ahead is, trying to proclaim something before it is Jehovah's time for it to be known.

Jehovah didn't correct him directly he simply allowed events to prove his son wrong, as they so clearly did, no matter how you twist scripture to avoid admitting it.


However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.

You've been asked before: exactly HOW MANY mistakes would the WatchTower have to make in order for you to realize that Jehovah isn't really guiding them at all? I can assure you that if you require numbers in the single- or double-digits, they've already past that.

As long as they continue to do Jehovah's will, which is after all the one criteria Christ put forward for being his followers (Matthew 7:21-23).

As Jesus points out there, in the final days many will claim to have served him, but only those doing the will of his father, Jehovah, will be recognised as being his followers.

In the end that is what it comes down to.

They are doing Jehovah's will, declaring his kingdom, his righteousness, his glory, his faithfulness.

Something you don't even start to do.

And they are demonstrably the only ones doing Jehovah's will.

Like a great many people, I would have preferred it they were not the only ones, but they are, simple as.

I have learned to accept that, are you capable of doing so?
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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12/30/2015 3:12:14 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 12:41:31 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/29/2015 6:05:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

LMAO. A pretty piss-poor substitute, I'd say - and dangerously close to the claim to apostolic authority advanced by the Catholic Church.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself,

Of course ya would! Even when the Governing Body spews out ridiculous claims.

knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me.

Jehovah isn't "correcting" them or you.

If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

I see it did you a lot of good.

In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible

That's what they want you to do: STFU and keep promoting the WatchTower!

I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

The WatchTower has never once "ran ahead of what Jehovah directs".

Christ didn't "run ahead of what Jehovah directs", either.

However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.

You've been asked before: exactly HOW MANY mistakes would the WatchTower have to make in order for you to realize that Jehovah isn't really guiding them at all? I can assure you that if you require numbers in the single- or double-digits, they've already past that.

It is impossible to answer that.

No, it's impossible for YOU to answer it.

Remember jesus words when Peter asked him how many times his brother could forgive him before he could stop forgiving him?

Don't confuse "forgiving" a false teacher when he repents and ceases to teach false doctrine with simply recognizing the fact that Jehovah isn't leading the false teacher in the first place.

I have seen far more than enough evidence to prove that they are indeed Jehovah's channel, the equivalent of the "Apostles and Older Men in Jerusalem" who were Jehovah's channel in the first century.

"Far more than enough" = ZERO

No, as long as the WTBTS prove to be Jehovah's channel, I shall continue to have faith in his ability to correct them.

They haven't proved it. They've proven absolutely nothing.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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12/30/2015 3:15:59 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 12:53:40 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/29/2015 6:05:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/27/2015 3:32:59 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!

I satisfied myself long ago that the Governing Body truly are the equivalent of the Apostles and Older Men at Jerusalem.

LMAO. A pretty piss-poor substitute, I'd say - and dangerously close to the claim to apostolic authority advanced by the Catholic Church.

Of course you would, because you don't want to believe it.

It is true none the less, they are what they are.

They are certainly a much better choice than such as you who isn't even prepared to admit your most obvious errors.

At least they have accepted theirs.

That being the case, If I had any disagreement with what the Governing Body taught, I would keep it to myself,


Of course ya would! Even when the Governing Body spews out ridiculous claims.

knowing that in his own good time Jehovah would correct either them or me.

Jehovah isn't "correcting" them or you.

I know that is what you want to believe, but the evidence says differently.

And I know that, as Paul puts it, Jehovah's spirit bears witness with my spirit. There is no possibility of doubting that.


If I felt the problem was serious enough I would write to the Governing body, as I have done before.

I see it did you a lot of good.

Yes it did, though there is no way you would know or accept that fact.


In the meantime I would avoid the subject as much as possible

That's what they want you to do: STFU and keep promoting the WatchTower!

No. Keep promoting scripture, and Jehovah's channel for the dissemination of information.

You didn't finish the sentence:

"No. Keep promoting scripture, and Jehovah's channel for the dissemination of information, even when the information it is disseminating is blatantly false."

In other words, support them no matter what they teach, just so long as they don't violate a few "holy grails" like "Jehovah's name" and "the son is a created being." As long as those two (and a few more) aren't violated, the door's wide open for all sorts of nonsense.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,016
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12/30/2015 2:01:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago


I am well aware that they have made mistakes, they are, after all only human, and sometimes humans run ahead of what Jehovah directs, as Christ did on two occasions.

However, just as scripture corrected Christ's errors, so Jehovah has always corrected the errors made by the Governing body, at what for him was the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

Abraham made a serious mistake for which we are still paying the price today.
Moses made a mistake which cost him entry into the Promised Land.
Jonah made a mistake which left him spending time in the belly of a large fish.
King David made a mistake which brought suffering to his people.
Peter made a mistake which meant Paul had to berate him publicly.

Jehovah did nothing to stop any of his servants making mistakes, but he did correct them in his own time.

Scripture is full of such examples.

None of the examples above are ones concerning doctrine or prophecy, unlike the errors of the jws
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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12/30/2015 2:20:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 1:57:19 PM, tstor wrote:
At 12/26/2015 11:43:30 PM, graceofgod wrote:
if the organisation tell you one thing and the bible tells you another which would you believe????

please remember how many times the organisation has been wrong.!!!!
I am not a JW, but I can answer this question. The Bible trumps all else. So ideally a JW would recognize the error and mention it to an elder.
You do understand that such an action would get a member disfellowshiped and shunned?

[Q. Back to the point now, a false prophecy was promulgated? A. I agree to that.Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's witnesses?
A. That is correct.Q. If a member of Jehovah's witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong, and said so, would he be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so, and kept on persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous, and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across, then there is a disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching ...... Our purpose is to haveunity. Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation,the governing body of our organisation, to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time. Q. A unity based on an enforced acceptance of false prophecy? A. That is conceded to be true.
Q. And the person who expresses his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the covenant, if he was baptised?
A. That is correct.Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think....
Q. Would you say yes or no?
A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.Q. Do you call that Christianity?
A. I certainly do.]
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,104
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12/30/2015 5:37:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 12:05:41 AM, tstor wrote:
At 12/29/2015 10:13:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:

you showing it then deny it constantly certainly does...
Showing that I am a JW? I have never made that claim. Read my profile.

oops you dropped your jw timesheets.... lol knew you would fall for that one...
What?

you know the timesheets the jw's have to keep when they go door to door, to say where they went, how long, that sort of thing...