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Purpose with God

janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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12/28/2015 9:36:50 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

To love others, love God, and love each other for eternity as opposed to hoping for death for all.
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/28/2015 9:41:51 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:36:50 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

To love others, love God, and love each other for eternity as opposed to hoping for death for all.

For eternity? that would get a little boring after a while.
Are you supposed to love Charles Manson if he goes to heaven?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/28/2015 9:44:41 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:36:50 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

To love others, love God, and love each other for eternity as opposed to hoping for death for all.

So... Just your wish fulfillment?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/28/2015 10:47:18 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

God is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
Saying there there is no purpose to life without God, is the same as saying there is no purpose to life without life.

What purpose to life is there WITH God is the same as asking what purpose to life is there WITH life.

The purpose of life is to live, reproduce and die to make room for future generations of life. That process keeps life alive for all eternity as the old is constantly replaced with the new.
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/28/2015 10:59:08 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 10:47:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

God is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
Saying there there is no purpose to life without God, is the same as saying there is no purpose to life without life.


What purpose to life is there WITH God is the same as asking what purpose to life is there WITH life.

The purpose of life is to live, reproduce and die to make room for future generations of life. That process keeps life alive for all eternity as the old is constantly replaced with the new.

Then death is a concept with no meaning. Just a change of form maybe.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/28/2015 11:38:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 10:59:08 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:47:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

God is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
Saying there there is no purpose to life without God, is the same as saying there is no purpose to life without life.


What purpose to life is there WITH God is the same as asking what purpose to life is there WITH life.

The purpose of life is to live, reproduce and die to make room for future generations of life. That process keeps life alive for all eternity as the old is constantly replaced with the new.

Then death is a concept with no meaning. Just a change of form maybe.

Yes death is a process of change. It is about old things passing away and being replaced with the new.
We are constantly changing form in the process of growth and change. We start as a hope or dream in the hearts of our parents, become a reality created by them and end up as a memory in the hearts and minds of those who loved us as our bodies become part of the dust of the Earth. Our Earth consists of dead bodies which sustain us as they fertilise the ground on which we live.

E=MC2
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It has always existed in some form and will continue to exist in some form even if that form becomes invisible to future people on this planet. You are one of those forms of energy.
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/28/2015 11:50:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:38:27 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:59:08 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:47:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

God is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
Saying there there is no purpose to life without God, is the same as saying there is no purpose to life without life.


What purpose to life is there WITH God is the same as asking what purpose to life is there WITH life.

The purpose of life is to live, reproduce and die to make room for future generations of life. That process keeps life alive for all eternity as the old is constantly replaced with the new.

Then death is a concept with no meaning. Just a change of form maybe.

Yes death is a process of change. It is about old things passing away and being replaced with the new.
We are constantly changing form in the process of growth and change. We start as a hope or dream in the hearts of our parents, become a reality created by them and end up as a memory in the hearts and minds of those who loved us as our bodies become part of the dust of the Earth. Our Earth consists of dead bodies which sustain us as they fertilise the ground on which we live.

E=MC2
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It has always existed in some form and will continue to exist in some form even if that form becomes invisible to future people on this planet. You are one of those forms of energy.

And that energy is consciousness.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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12/29/2015 12:00:29 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

the purpose of life with god is for the theist to be a slave
look at the positions they take when they pray
on their knees, hand together so they can be chained
or groveling on the ground, or hands up high surrendered
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/29/2015 12:04:44 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:00:29 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

the purpose of life with god is for the theist to be a slave
look at the positions they take when they pray
on their knees, hand together so they can be chained
or groveling on the ground, or hands up high surrendered

that is sad. Who would want to live like that?
MaxSterling
Posts: 62
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12/29/2015 12:23:11 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:36:50 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

To love others, love God, and love each other for eternity as opposed to hoping for death for all.

Why is it a dichotomy, though? Why isn't their an option to just abstain from 'eternity of love' for personal reasons? Isn't that basically the same as saying anyone who disagrees or wants a different kind of 'eternal love' from someone else ACTUALLY wants everyone to face destruction?
"But why do you want REVENGE?!"

"I HAVE REASONS!!!!!"
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/29/2015 1:50:37 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:50:00 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:38:27 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:59:08 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:47:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

God is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
Saying there there is no purpose to life without God, is the same as saying there is no purpose to life without life.


What purpose to life is there WITH God is the same as asking what purpose to life is there WITH life.

The purpose of life is to live, reproduce and die to make room for future generations of life. That process keeps life alive for all eternity as the old is constantly replaced with the new.

Then death is a concept with no meaning. Just a change of form maybe.

Yes death is a process of change. It is about old things passing away and being replaced with the new.
We are constantly changing form in the process of growth and change. We start as a hope or dream in the hearts of our parents, become a reality created by them and end up as a memory in the hearts and minds of those who loved us as our bodies become part of the dust of the Earth. Our Earth consists of dead bodies which sustain us as they fertilise the ground on which we live.

E=MC2
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It has always existed in some form and will continue to exist in some form even if that form becomes invisible to future people on this planet. You are one of those forms of energy.

And that energy is consciousness.

I think consciousness is simply one aspect of energy within humans and other self aware animals.
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 1:50:37 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:50:00 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:38:27 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:59:08 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:47:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

God is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
Saying there there is no purpose to life without God, is the same as saying there is no purpose to life without life.


What purpose to life is there WITH God is the same as asking what purpose to life is there WITH life.

The purpose of life is to live, reproduce and die to make room for future generations of life. That process keeps life alive for all eternity as the old is constantly replaced with the new.

Then death is a concept with no meaning. Just a change of form maybe.

Yes death is a process of change. It is about old things passing away and being replaced with the new.
We are constantly changing form in the process of growth and change. We start as a hope or dream in the hearts of our parents, become a reality created by them and end up as a memory in the hearts and minds of those who loved us as our bodies become part of the dust of the Earth. Our Earth consists of dead bodies which sustain us as they fertilise the ground on which we live.

E=MC2
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It has always existed in some form and will continue to exist in some form even if that form becomes invisible to future people on this planet. You are one of those forms of energy.

And that energy is consciousness.

I think consciousness is simply one aspect of energy within humans and other self aware animals.

Where do you draw the line as to what has consciousness? And why?

I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/29/2015 3:02:19 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 1:50:37 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:50:00 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:38:27 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:59:08 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:47:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

God is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
Saying there there is no purpose to life without God, is the same as saying there is no purpose to life without life.


What purpose to life is there WITH God is the same as asking what purpose to life is there WITH life.

The purpose of life is to live, reproduce and die to make room for future generations of life. That process keeps life alive for all eternity as the old is constantly replaced with the new.

Then death is a concept with no meaning. Just a change of form maybe.

Yes death is a process of change. It is about old things passing away and being replaced with the new.
We are constantly changing form in the process of growth and change. We start as a hope or dream in the hearts of our parents, become a reality created by them and end up as a memory in the hearts and minds of those who loved us as our bodies become part of the dust of the Earth. Our Earth consists of dead bodies which sustain us as they fertilise the ground on which we live.

E=MC2
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It has always existed in some form and will continue to exist in some form even if that form becomes invisible to future people on this planet. You are one of those forms of energy.

And that energy is consciousness.

I think consciousness is simply one aspect of energy within humans and other self aware animals.

Where do you draw the line as to what has consciousness? And why?

It depends on how you define consciousness.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
According to the definitions in the link, consciousness is : the state of being aware of and responsive to one"s surroundings; a persons awareness or perception of something; the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world:

Since the above dictionary defines consciousness as an awareness by the mind of itself and the world, I confine consciousness to the living things which have a brain, a mind, are self aware and also aware of other living things around them. I exclude plants and germs and other mindless things from living things with consciousness because I do not believe they have a brain which seems to be necessary for any self awareness.

I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.

Really? Does a rock, a tree, fruit, vegetables, water, fire, air, dust, contain self awareness and free will? Can those things defend themselves against predators and choose to do good or evil or are they are mindless unconscious living things which lack all self control ?

I suggest you rethink your statement or explain to me how rocks and trees and the other things I mentioned have consciousness and free will.
Bob13
Posts: 710
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12/29/2015 5:26:51 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?
To enjoy it while allowing others to do the same.
I don't have a signature. :-)
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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12/29/2015 5:51:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

What do you say is the purpose of life without God? It certainly isn't to be with God correct?
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/29/2015 8:43:31 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 5:51:54 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

What do you say is the purpose of life without God? It certainly isn't to be with God correct?
There is no purpose to life without God. You have to make your own purpose.
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/29/2015 8:52:03 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 3:02:19 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 1:50:37 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:50:00 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:38:27 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:59:08 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 10:47:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

God is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
Saying there there is no purpose to life without God, is the same as saying there is no purpose to life without life.


What purpose to life is there WITH God is the same as asking what purpose to life is there WITH life.

The purpose of life is to live, reproduce and die to make room for future generations of life. That process keeps life alive for all eternity as the old is constantly replaced with the new.

Then death is a concept with no meaning. Just a change of form maybe.

Yes death is a process of change. It is about old things passing away and being replaced with the new.
We are constantly changing form in the process of growth and change. We start as a hope or dream in the hearts of our parents, become a reality created by them and end up as a memory in the hearts and minds of those who loved us as our bodies become part of the dust of the Earth. Our Earth consists of dead bodies which sustain us as they fertilise the ground on which we live.

E=MC2
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It has always existed in some form and will continue to exist in some form even if that form becomes invisible to future people on this planet. You are one of those forms of energy.

And that energy is consciousness.

I think consciousness is simply one aspect of energy within humans and other self aware animals.

Where do you draw the line as to what has consciousness? And why?

It depends on how you define consciousness.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
According to the definitions in the link, consciousness is : the state of being aware of and responsive to one"s surroundings; a persons awareness or perception of something; the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world:

Since the above dictionary defines consciousness as an awareness by the mind of itself and the world, I confine consciousness to the living things which have a brain, a mind, are self aware and also aware of other living things around them. I exclude plants and germs and other mindless things from living things with consciousness because I do not believe they have a brain which seems to be necessary for any self awareness.


I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.

Really? Does a rock, a tree, fruit, vegetables, water, fire, air, dust, contain self awareness and free will? Can those things defend themselves against predators and choose to do good or evil or are they are mindless unconscious living things which lack all self control ?

I suggest you rethink your statement or explain to me how rocks and trees and the other things I mentioned have consciousness and free will.
Individuals have free will and consciousness. The molecules in a rock have free will, and so do individual atoms. But not the rock. Individual cells in a body have free will. Each has it's own morphogenetic field that organizes it and gives it consciousness. A tree has free will, but not individual leaves.

The more complex, the more an individual realizes it has free will and the more aware it is.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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12/30/2015 12:09:40 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

The purpose of life with god is to die, the purpose without god is to live.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/30/2015 1:06:58 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 8:52:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:02:19 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM, janesix wrote:

I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.

Really? Does a rock, a tree, fruit, vegetables, water, fire, air, dust, contain self awareness and free will? Can those things defend themselves against predators and choose to do good or evil or are they are mindless unconscious living things which lack all self control ?

I suggest you rethink your statement or explain to me how rocks and trees and the other things I mentioned have consciousness and free will.

Individuals have free will and consciousness.

I agree with that when it comes to things that have a brain and can choose to do things like eat or not eat, walk or not walk, etc.

The molecules in a rock have free will, and so do individual atoms. But not the rock. Individual cells in a body have free will. Each has it's own morphogenetic field that organizes it and gives it consciousness. A tree has free will, but not individual leaves.

Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices?
How does a tree have a will but individual leaves do not?
Can a rock choose to move or not move or does it simply react according to the movements of its environment?
Can it choose to not roll down a hill for example if something forces it to move down a hill?
People can choose to not roll down a hill and stop themselves from rolling but rocks cannot.

The more complex, the more an individual realizes it has free will and the more aware it is.

Nothing that is unaware of itself or unaware of opposites or differences has a will or choice of any kind. You need an awareness of differences to have a choice and you need a brain to make a choice.

Automatic actions are not made by will or choice. You grow automatically. You have no will or choice about it.
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/30/2015 1:10:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:06:58 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 8:52:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:02:19 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM, janesix wrote:

I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.

Really? Does a rock, a tree, fruit, vegetables, water, fire, air, dust, contain self awareness and free will? Can those things defend themselves against predators and choose to do good or evil or are they are mindless unconscious living things which lack all self control ?

I suggest you rethink your statement or explain to me how rocks and trees and the other things I mentioned have consciousness and free will.

Individuals have free will and consciousness.

I agree with that when it comes to things that have a brain and can choose to do things like eat or not eat, walk or not walk, etc.

The molecules in a rock have free will, and so do individual atoms. But not the rock. Individual cells in a body have free will. Each has it's own morphogenetic field that organizes it and gives it consciousness. A tree has free will, but not individual leaves.

Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices?
How does a tree have a will but individual leaves do not?
Can a rock choose to move or not move or does it simply react according to the movements of its environment?
Can it choose to not roll down a hill for example if something forces it to move down a hill?
People can choose to not roll down a hill and stop themselves from rolling but rocks cannot.


The more complex, the more an individual realizes it has free will and the more aware it is.

Nothing that is unaware of itself or unaware of opposites or differences has a will or choice of any kind. You need an awareness of differences to have a choice and you need a brain to make a choice.

Automatic actions are not made by will or choice. You grow automatically. You have no will or choice about it.

What is the difference between your molecules and that of a rock? Nothing. So why do you think you have free will and molecule in a rock doesn't? It doesn't have as much awareness as you do, thus it has less knowledge that it has free will. It obeys it's instincts. You have more freedom to not obey your instincts, thus you have more free will.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/30/2015 1:14:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 12:09:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

The purpose of life with god is to die, the purpose without god is to live.

It seems those without god never fulfil their purpose in that case, since all die. ;-)

If the purpose of life with or without god is to die, all fulfil the same purpose regardless of what they believe.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/30/2015 1:25:54 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:10:52 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:06:58 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 8:52:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:02:19 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM, janesix wrote:

I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.

Really? Does a rock, a tree, fruit, vegetables, water, fire, air, dust, contain self awareness and free will? Can those things defend themselves against predators and choose to do good or evil or are they are mindless unconscious living things which lack all self control ?

I suggest you rethink your statement or explain to me how rocks and trees and the other things I mentioned have consciousness and free will.

Individuals have free will and consciousness.

I agree with that when it comes to things that have a brain and can choose to do things like eat or not eat, walk or not walk, etc.

The molecules in a rock have free will, and so do individual atoms. But not the rock. Individual cells in a body have free will. Each has it's own morphogenetic field that organizes it and gives it consciousness. A tree has free will, but not individual leaves.

Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices?
How does a tree have a will but individual leaves do not?
Can a rock choose to move or not move or does it simply react according to the movements of its environment?
Can it choose to not roll down a hill for example if something forces it to move down a hill?
People can choose to not roll down a hill and stop themselves from rolling but rocks cannot.


The more complex, the more an individual realizes it has free will and the more aware it is.

Nothing that is unaware of itself or unaware of opposites or differences has a will or choice of any kind. You need an awareness of differences to have a choice and you need a brain to make a choice.

Automatic actions are not made by will or choice. You grow automatically. You have no will or choice about it.

What is the difference between your molecules and that of a rock? Nothing. So why do you think you have free will and molecule in a rock doesn't? It doesn't have as much awareness as you do, thus it has less knowledge that it has free will. It obeys it's instincts. You have more freedom to not obey your instincts, thus you have more free will.

Because the molecules in my head have formed a brain and the molecules in a rock have not.
If you don't think you are any different to a rock, you must have rocks in your head. In that case, I feel sorry for you.
Rocks have no instincts.
Animals have instincts.
An instinct is a pattern of behaviour. Rocks have no behaviour. They just stay put unless natural forces move them.

So try again. Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices or admit they do not.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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12/30/2015 1:25:55 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:14:52 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 12:09:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

The purpose of life with god is to die, the purpose without god is to live.

It seems those without god never fulfil their purpose in that case, since all die. ;-)

If the purpose of life with or without god is to die, all fulfil the same purpose regardless of what they believe.
You seem to misunderstand me, I said nothing about not dying.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/30/2015 1:30:03 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:25:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:14:52 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 12:09:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

The purpose of life with god is to die, the purpose without god is to live.

It seems those without god never fulfil their purpose in that case, since all die. ;-)

If the purpose of life with or without god is to die, all fulfil the same purpose regardless of what they believe.
You seem to misunderstand me, I said nothing about not dying.

OK Please explain how I misunderstood you?
You said...
"The purpose of life with god is to die"

How is that statement NOT about dying?
I can rephrase it in my mind as "Dying is the purpose of life with god."
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/30/2015 1:31:28 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:25:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:10:52 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:06:58 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 8:52:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:02:19 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM, janesix wrote:

I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.

Really? Does a rock, a tree, fruit, vegetables, water, fire, air, dust, contain self awareness and free will? Can those things defend themselves against predators and choose to do good or evil or are they are mindless unconscious living things which lack all self control ?

I suggest you rethink your statement or explain to me how rocks and trees and the other things I mentioned have consciousness and free will.

Individuals have free will and consciousness.

I agree with that when it comes to things that have a brain and can choose to do things like eat or not eat, walk or not walk, etc.

The molecules in a rock have free will, and so do individual atoms. But not the rock. Individual cells in a body have free will. Each has it's own morphogenetic field that organizes it and gives it consciousness. A tree has free will, but not individual leaves.

Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices?
How does a tree have a will but individual leaves do not?
Can a rock choose to move or not move or does it simply react according to the movements of its environment?
Can it choose to not roll down a hill for example if something forces it to move down a hill?
People can choose to not roll down a hill and stop themselves from rolling but rocks cannot.


The more complex, the more an individual realizes it has free will and the more aware it is.

Nothing that is unaware of itself or unaware of opposites or differences has a will or choice of any kind. You need an awareness of differences to have a choice and you need a brain to make a choice.

Automatic actions are not made by will or choice. You grow automatically. You have no will or choice about it.

What is the difference between your molecules and that of a rock? Nothing. So why do you think you have free will and molecule in a rock doesn't? It doesn't have as much awareness as you do, thus it has less knowledge that it has free will. It obeys it's instincts. You have more freedom to not obey your instincts, thus you have more free will.

Because the molecules in my head have formed a brain and the molecules in a rock have not.
If you don't think you are any different to a rock, you must have rocks in your head. In that case, I feel sorry for you.
Rocks have no instincts.
Animals have instincts.
An instinct is a pattern of behaviour. Rocks have no behaviour. They just stay put unless natural forces move them.

So try again. Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices or admit they do not.

I already explained it to you. Do you think a worm doesn't have free will, because ti doesn't have a brain? It makes decisions every day.

You think you are special because you have a brain, but you are no different from anything else. That "energy" in you that is your life force is the same in everything. Why do you think you are different?
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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12/30/2015 1:36:55 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:30:03 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:25:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:14:52 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 12:09:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

The purpose of life with god is to die, the purpose without god is to live.

It seems those without god never fulfil their purpose in that case, since all die. ;-)

If the purpose of life with or without god is to die, all fulfil the same purpose regardless of what they believe.
You seem to misunderstand me, I said nothing about not dying.

OK Please explain how I misunderstood you?
You said...
"The purpose of life with god is to die"

How is that statement NOT about dying?
I can rephrase it in my mind as "Dying is the purpose of life with god."
And you went on about my statement concerning the purpose of life without god.
Please stick to the argument you made and that to which I responded, your confusion is noted and should now be remedied.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/30/2015 1:46:40 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:31:28 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:25:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:10:52 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:06:58 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 8:52:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:02:19 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM, janesix wrote:

I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.

Really? Does a rock, a tree, fruit, vegetables, water, fire, air, dust, contain self awareness and free will? Can those things defend themselves against predators and choose to do good or evil or are they are mindless unconscious living things which lack all self control ?

I suggest you rethink your statement or explain to me how rocks and trees and the other things I mentioned have consciousness and free will.

Individuals have free will and consciousness.

I agree with that when it comes to things that have a brain and can choose to do things like eat or not eat, walk or not walk, etc.

The molecules in a rock have free will, and so do individual atoms. But not the rock. Individual cells in a body have free will. Each has it's own morphogenetic field that organizes it and gives it consciousness. A tree has free will, but not individual leaves.

Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices?
How does a tree have a will but individual leaves do not?
Can a rock choose to move or not move or does it simply react according to the movements of its environment?
Can it choose to not roll down a hill for example if something forces it to move down a hill?
People can choose to not roll down a hill and stop themselves from rolling but rocks cannot.


The more complex, the more an individual realizes it has free will and the more aware it is.

Nothing that is unaware of itself or unaware of opposites or differences has a will or choice of any kind. You need an awareness of differences to have a choice and you need a brain to make a choice.

Automatic actions are not made by will or choice. You grow automatically. You have no will or choice about it.

What is the difference between your molecules and that of a rock? Nothing. So why do you think you have free will and molecule in a rock doesn't? It doesn't have as much awareness as you do, thus it has less knowledge that it has free will. It obeys it's instincts. You have more freedom to not obey your instincts, thus you have more free will.

Because the molecules in my head have formed a brain and the molecules in a rock have not.
If you don't think you are any different to a rock, you must have rocks in your head. In that case, I feel sorry for you.
Rocks have no instincts.
Animals have instincts.
An instinct is a pattern of behaviour. Rocks have no behaviour. They just stay put unless natural forces move them.

So try again. Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices or admit they do not.

I already explained it to you. Do you think a worm doesn't have free will, because ti doesn't have a brain? It makes decisions every day.

Really ? What decisions does a worm need to make every day? Please list them for me and let me know how you concluded those were the list of decisions a worm needs to make each day. Did you interview a lot of worms?
Worms have nerve centres. They are creatures which move automatically and simply react to their environment. They have no choices or decisions to make.

You think you are special because you have a brain, but you are no different from anything else. That "energy" in you that is your life force is the same in everything. Why do you think you are different?

Yes I am special. I am unique. I am human. I am not a rock. I am not the same as a rock.
Yes the energy which causes movement is a life force but not all life forces have choices. Does the wind have a choice to blow or not blow?
Some existing things have choices and others simply don't. Not all are the same.

I am different to a rock because I was created differently to a rock. If you don't believe you are any different to a rock, I totally understand why you are thick as a brick. The problem lies in your self deceptions.
janesix
Posts: 3,462
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12/30/2015 1:49:19 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:46:40 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:31:28 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:25:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:10:52 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:06:58 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 8:52:03 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:02:19 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/29/2015 2:15:59 AM, janesix wrote:

I personally think there is no line to draw, everything contains some amount of consciousness and free will.

Really? Does a rock, a tree, fruit, vegetables, water, fire, air, dust, contain self awareness and free will? Can those things defend themselves against predators and choose to do good or evil or are they are mindless unconscious living things which lack all self control ?

I suggest you rethink your statement or explain to me how rocks and trees and the other things I mentioned have consciousness and free will.

Individuals have free will and consciousness.

I agree with that when it comes to things that have a brain and can choose to do things like eat or not eat, walk or not walk, etc.

The molecules in a rock have free will, and so do individual atoms. But not the rock. Individual cells in a body have free will. Each has it's own morphogenetic field that organizes it and gives it consciousness. A tree has free will, but not individual leaves.

Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices?
How does a tree have a will but individual leaves do not?
Can a rock choose to move or not move or does it simply react according to the movements of its environment?
Can it choose to not roll down a hill for example if something forces it to move down a hill?
People can choose to not roll down a hill and stop themselves from rolling but rocks cannot.


The more complex, the more an individual realizes it has free will and the more aware it is.

Nothing that is unaware of itself or unaware of opposites or differences has a will or choice of any kind. You need an awareness of differences to have a choice and you need a brain to make a choice.

Automatic actions are not made by will or choice. You grow automatically. You have no will or choice about it.

What is the difference between your molecules and that of a rock? Nothing. So why do you think you have free will and molecule in a rock doesn't? It doesn't have as much awareness as you do, thus it has less knowledge that it has free will. It obeys it's instincts. You have more freedom to not obey your instincts, thus you have more free will.

Because the molecules in my head have formed a brain and the molecules in a rock have not.
If you don't think you are any different to a rock, you must have rocks in your head. In that case, I feel sorry for you.
Rocks have no instincts.
Animals have instincts.
An instinct is a pattern of behaviour. Rocks have no behaviour. They just stay put unless natural forces move them.

So try again. Please explain how molecules, atoms and trees have free will or choices or admit they do not.

I already explained it to you. Do you think a worm doesn't have free will, because ti doesn't have a brain? It makes decisions every day.

Really ? What decisions does a worm need to make every day? Please list them for me and let me know how you concluded those were the list of decisions a worm needs to make each day. Did you interview a lot of worms?
Worms have nerve centres. They are creatures which move automatically and simply react to their environment. They have no choices or decisions to make.

You think you are special because you have a brain, but you are no different from anything else. That "energy" in you that is your life force is the same in everything. Why do you think you are different?

Yes I am special. I am unique. I am human. I am not a rock. I am not the same as a rock.
Yes the energy which causes movement is a life force but not all life forces have choices. Does the wind have a choice to blow or not blow?
Some existing things have choices and others simply don't. Not all are the same.

I am different to a rock because I was created differently to a rock. If you don't believe you are any different to a rock, I totally understand why you are thick as a brick. The problem lies in your self deceptions.

You were created? I didn't realize you were a creationist. That's news to me. Which one is your skydaddy that created the special little flower that is you?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/30/2015 1:50:50 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:36:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:30:03 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:25:55 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:14:52 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 12:09:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2015 9:35:18 PM, janesix wrote:
Theists often say that there is no purpose t life without God. I am wondering, what purpose to life is there WITH God?

The purpose of life with god is to die, the purpose without god is to live.

It seems those without god never fulfil their purpose in that case, since all die. ;-)

If the purpose of life with or without god is to die, all fulfil the same purpose regardless of what they believe.
You seem to misunderstand me, I said nothing about not dying.

OK Please explain how I misunderstood you?
You said...
"The purpose of life with god is to die"

How is that statement NOT about dying?
I can rephrase it in my mind as "Dying is the purpose of life with god."
And you went on about my statement concerning the purpose of life without god.
Please stick to the argument you made and that to which I responded, your confusion is noted and should now be remedied.

Have you been into the booze again? I am not confused.