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morals are innate

janesix
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12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/28/2015 11:35:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

Oh, forgot... i believe, like i said in the previous post, we are many from one. Many, as in many different realities all evolved from one intelligence throughout infinite time. It is finite, but we move infinitely. As intelligence evolved, every personality you can think of, was thought of... morals are innate; bc intelligence doesn't want to create other intelligence that harms it; however, how can you know harm before creating it? then, would not harm create a deeper harm... it stops at what we consider evil and it starts at what we consider good.

Morals did evolve. There are more good bc it is more beneficial to work together than harm the group. This was key in our early stages. But, the evil that got kicked out was mainly mentally ill or low iq evil... there also smart evil... which carried their genes to now... No way to stop it bc evil is still a vessel that can be exploited in this world... and, why not? We all have that screaming demon in our heads.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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12/28/2015 11:43:18 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:35:16 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

Oh, forgot... i believe, like i said in the previous post, we are many from one. Many, as in many different realities all evolved from one intelligence throughout infinite time. It is finite, but we move infinitely. As intelligence evolved, every personality you can think of, was thought of... morals are innate; bc intelligence doesn't want to create other intelligence that harms it; however, how can you know harm before creating it? then, would not harm create a deeper harm... it stops at what we consider evil and it starts at what we consider good.

Morals did evolve. There are more good bc it is more beneficial to work together than harm the group. This was key in our early stages. But, the evil that got kicked out was mainly mentally ill or low iq evil... there also smart evil... which carried their genes to now... No way to stop it bc evil is still a vessel that can be exploited in this world... and, why not? We all have that screaming demon in our heads.

As for evil, I think the one consciousness feels all emotions, from love on down to hate. However, it also has feelings such as guilt and shame, and as individual temporarily separate consciousness, we must learn to choose good over evil if we wish to progress spiritually.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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12/28/2015 11:46:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
Maybe not backwards, but it may go in a cycle. Something to do for all eternity.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/28/2015 11:57:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:43:18 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:35:16 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

Oh, forgot... i believe, like i said in the previous post, we are many from one. Many, as in many different realities all evolved from one intelligence throughout infinite time. It is finite, but we move infinitely. As intelligence evolved, every personality you can think of, was thought of... morals are innate; bc intelligence doesn't want to create other intelligence that harms it; however, how can you know harm before creating it? then, would not harm create a deeper harm... it stops at what we consider evil and it starts at what we consider good.

Morals did evolve. There are more good bc it is more beneficial to work together than harm the group. This was key in our early stages. But, the evil that got kicked out was mainly mentally ill or low iq evil... there also smart evil... which carried their genes to now... No way to stop it bc evil is still a vessel that can be exploited in this world... and, why not? We all have that screaming demon in our heads.

As for evil, I think the one consciousness feels all emotions, from love on down to hate. However, it also has feelings such as guilt and shame, and as individual temporarily separate consciousness, we must learn to choose good over evil if we wish to progress spiritually.

I am in no way undermining what you have said... it can very well be true but i will just give you my view for comparison or discussion. I don't think the "one" is conscious as one any more. Look at it like this... Out of darkness, this one, realizes the darkness...slowly make waves with it, maybe shakes it... but just sees darkness, then realizes... what am i? Intelligence would have to be self aware (in comparison to human intelligence). The what am i can very well be darkness for a couple years, but eventually, it will try to view something else... maybe a stick figure in a light grey in contrast to the darkness... I am not going to speculate more on its initial evolution... but, i believe it got to a point where it created another like itself.

This is where emotion would really begin. First it would probably be of annoyance and fun. A mirror image of yourself, in full control by you is what a child does with toys...so, at this point you can look at it as a child. Until, it thinks to have another that is not in control by it. At which point, think of all the emotions. The other doesn't have to follow the one, but still wants to... start of love. Hates something the one does, start of argument... and so on. I think it intelligence evolved and branched down like this.

We are at a point of infinite, the one is just living among the infinite that evolved from it. All emotions are there, all types are there, now living is the next "invention" for yes......
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/28/2015 11:58:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:46:16 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
Maybe not backwards, but it may go in a cycle. Something to do for all eternity.

...to forget eternity is living.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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12/29/2015 12:06:37 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:58:02 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:46:16 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
Maybe not backwards, but it may go in a cycle. Something to do for all eternity.

...to forget eternity is living.

Yes, to forget by imbedding yourself in finite matter,and introduce death.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/29/2015 12:29:39 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:06:37 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:58:02 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:46:16 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
Maybe not backwards, but it may go in a cycle. Something to do for all eternity.

...to forget eternity is living.

Yes, to forget by imbedding yourself in finite matter,and introduce death.

Glad to see another free thinker not confined by one possibility of nothingness (although dauntingly shown to have truth to it by science). Now, to look for possibilities of proofs to this kind of thinking... i have been trying myself, but more so on the metaphysical side of things since i am a layman in science.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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12/29/2015 12:33:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:29:39 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:06:37 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:58:02 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:46:16 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
Maybe not backwards, but it may go in a cycle. Something to do for all eternity.

...to forget eternity is living.

Yes, to forget by imbedding yourself in finite matter,and introduce death.

Glad to see another free thinker not confined by one possibility of nothingness (although dauntingly shown to have truth to it by science). Now, to look for possibilities of proofs to this kind of thinking... i have been trying myself, but more so on the metaphysical side of things since i am a layman in science.

I am in the same boat. Proof is hard to come by.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,907
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12/29/2015 12:35:11 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

Correct! God is one, God is all and in all. They who say that they love God and yet hate their brother in who God dwells is a liar.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/29/2015 12:37:13 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:33:46 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:29:39 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:06:37 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:58:02 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:46:16 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
Maybe not backwards, but it may go in a cycle. Something to do for all eternity.

...to forget eternity is living.

Yes, to forget by imbedding yourself in finite matter,and introduce death.

Glad to see another free thinker not confined by one possibility of nothingness (although dauntingly shown to have truth to it by science). Now, to look for possibilities of proofs to this kind of thinking... i have been trying myself, but more so on the metaphysical side of things since i am a layman in science.

I am in the same boat. Proof is hard to come by.

One that i recently came up with has a dualism nature to it. I have felt that we are the character in the game with the player behind us. Sort of like you are your own guardian angel. Is the player conscious separate to us in the unseen realm? Could that be our unconscious or could it be within our own matter? Can virtual particles be manipulation by the player to lead/direct us? This could explain miracles, ghosts, supernatural thoughts that lead to coincidence and so on... Maybe it has no way to touch this reality, bc then, it would be in it (ie us); but can in not manipulate it with us in it through energy... and isn't that what virtual particles are? Also interestingly, they have the ability to turn into matter... i find that curious. Just a conjecture i thought of taking the minimal i know about virtual particles... so, this can very well be an ignorance fallacy.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,907
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12/29/2015 12:52:38 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:37:13 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:33:46 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:29:39 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:06:37 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:58:02 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:46:16 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
Maybe not backwards, but it may go in a cycle. Something to do for all eternity.

...to forget eternity is living.

Yes, to forget by imbedding yourself in finite matter,and introduce death.

Glad to see another free thinker not confined by one possibility of nothingness (although dauntingly shown to have truth to it by science). Now, to look for possibilities of proofs to this kind of thinking... i have been trying myself, but more so on the metaphysical side of things since i am a layman in science.

I am in the same boat. Proof is hard to come by.

One that i recently came up with has a dualism nature to it. I have felt that we are the character in the game with the player behind us. Sort of like you are your own guardian angel. Is the player conscious separate to us in the unseen realm? Could that be our unconscious or could it be within our own matter? Can virtual particles be manipulation by the player to lead/direct us? This could explain miracles, ghosts, supernatural thoughts that lead to coincidence and so on... Maybe it has no way to touch this reality, bc then, it would be in it (ie us); but can in not manipulate it with us in it through energy... and isn't that what virtual particles are? Also interestingly, they have the ability to turn into matter... i find that curious. Just a conjecture i thought of taking the minimal i know about virtual particles... so, this can very well be an ignorance fallacy.

It is the Master whose secret presence through creations veins
Running quick-silver like eludes your pains
Taking on all shapes from moon to cow
Which shapes change and perish all while he remains

A moment guessed then back behind the fold (Curtain)
Immersed in darkness round the drama rolled
Which for the past-time of eternity
He does himself contrive, enact and behold....... Omar Khayyam.

He is the author of the drama, the actors upon the stage of life, and the audience.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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12/29/2015 1:00:15 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

No we don't. This is anthropology 101.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/29/2015 1:07:29 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:52:38 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:37:13 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:33:46 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:29:39 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:06:37 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:58:02 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:46:16 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:40:00 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:34:56 PM, janesix wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:28:30 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

So, Same person, in Different bodies? Does that mean we all turn into one? Is the one conscious?
There is always a part of the one consciousness that is aware of itself, it's only when we are in bodies do we think we are separate individuals. This is because matter is always cyclical, the universe is in a constant state of creation and destruction. So only parts of the universal consciousness feel like individual personalities.

I have gone this route of thinking; it can make sense. But, the question i ask... either we are one or many or, in my opinion, many from one... is immortality something any sentient being would want to be alone in? For to become one that is exactly what you will be.
That is most likely one of the reasons to take on individual separate identities. Eternity is boring, especially if you are alone.

I like your line of reasoning. I think the same things, however... i'll let you address it in my second post, i think the "one" is intelligence, and i think this is another force, like matter, energy, etc in the universe... of course unseen, but another force never the less that has been evolving throughout time. So, the questions i ask is why? and look at the implications from that... why create another? Curiosity is sufficient in my opinion. But, again... now what? Thinking of that evolution seems correlative with exactly how humans have been evolving... each vessel for its appropriate evolved thought. The one... is now many, and will never be one again... bc we know, nothing goes backwards.
Maybe not backwards, but it may go in a cycle. Something to do for all eternity.

...to forget eternity is living.

Yes, to forget by imbedding yourself in finite matter,and introduce death.

Glad to see another free thinker not confined by one possibility of nothingness (although dauntingly shown to have truth to it by science). Now, to look for possibilities of proofs to this kind of thinking... i have been trying myself, but more so on the metaphysical side of things since i am a layman in science.

I am in the same boat. Proof is hard to come by.

One that i recently came up with has a dualism nature to it. I have felt that we are the character in the game with the player behind us. Sort of like you are your own guardian angel. Is the player conscious separate to us in the unseen realm? Could that be our unconscious or could it be within our own matter? Can virtual particles be manipulation by the player to lead/direct us? This could explain miracles, ghosts, supernatural thoughts that lead to coincidence and so on... Maybe it has no way to touch this reality, bc then, it would be in it (ie us); but can in not manipulate it with us in it through energy... and isn't that what virtual particles are? Also interestingly, they have the ability to turn into matter... i find that curious. Just a conjecture i thought of taking the minimal i know about virtual particles... so, this can very well be an ignorance fallacy.

It is the Master whose secret presence through creations veins
Running quick-silver like eludes your pains
Taking on all shapes from moon to cow
Which shapes change and perish all while he remains

A moment guessed then back behind the fold (Curtain)
Immersed in darkness round the drama rolled
Which for the past-time of eternity
He does himself contrive, enact and behold....... Omar Khayyam.

He is the author of the drama, the actors upon the stage of life, and the audience.

Moon lit night
Talk to me,
I hear the chimes
Through every leaf,
I plead to thee
Softly,
Quietly,
Please,
Talk to me,
What need I be?
In this moon lit night
Only one that speaks,
My darkened soul
Along side of me,
My shadow's role
I know will sleep,
When only silence
Stays beneath,
Forever,
Eventually,
Eternally.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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12/29/2015 1:11:06 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

I really wish you wouldn't stare at me in the mirror like that. Oh, and brush my hair already!! ;-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
janesix
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12/29/2015 1:16:04 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 1:00:15 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

No we don't. This is anthropology 101.

why do you think that? How did you come to form that opinion?

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/29/2015 2:00:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

why do you think that? How did you come to form that opinion?
janesix
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12/29/2015 2:08:18 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 2:00:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

why do you think that? How did you come to form that opinion?

Personal experience of my own thought processes and emotional states, and states of consciousness
s-anthony
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12/29/2015 2:35:31 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

I believe morality is innate just as feelings are innate. It is our sense of affection that allows us to value one thing over another. Take away our ability to feel and life becomes meaningless.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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12/29/2015 3:05:31 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 1:16:04 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 1:00:15 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

No we don't. This is anthropology 101.

why do you think that? How did you come to form that opinion?

I took anthropology 101.

This is called naive realism and is basically the (flawed) belief that people are all fundamentally the same. That is, you have a sense of what is right and wrong, and since you believe all people are the same, then all people have the exact same sense of right and wrong as you and people that act contrary to that, are going "against their innate conscious" (sic).

We are not born with a preset world view; it is shaped by the culture we grow up in. So, no, people do not all have the same sense of right and wrong.


That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.
Gentorev
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12/29/2015 3:16:51 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 3:05:31 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 12/29/2015 1:16:04 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 1:00:15 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

No we don't. This is anthropology 101.

why do you think that? How did you come to form that opinion?

I took anthropology 101.

This is called naive realism and is basically the (flawed) belief that people are all fundamentally the same. That is, you have a sense of what is right and wrong, and since you believe all people are the same, then all people have the exact same sense of right and wrong as you and people that act contrary to that, are going "against their innate conscious" (sic).

We are not born with a preset world view; it is shaped by the culture we grow up in. So, no, people do not all have the same sense of right and wrong.


That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

The Inuits (Eskimos) would share their wives with another hunter caught out on the ice and would be sorely insulted if their offer was refused. Perhaps those who believe that we all have the same sense of right and wrong would care to share their wives with the less fortunate?
Skyangel
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12/29/2015 3:31:27 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 2:08:18 AM, janesix wrote:
At 12/29/2015 2:00:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/28/2015 11:14:27 PM, janesix wrote:
Most people just choose to go against their innate conscious for various reasons. But we all have the same sense of right and wrong.

That is because we are all the same person, in different bodies.

why do you think that? How did you come to form that opinion?

Personal experience of my own thought processes and emotional states, and states of consciousness

Your personal thought processes, emotional states and consciousness are subjective. Therefore so is your opinion.
You need to learn to think more objectively.

Take as an example, your statement " We all have the same sense of right and wrong"
Ask yourself, does a culture of people who believe it is OK ( right ) for an adult man to marry a 13 year old girl, or a culture who thinks it is OK ( right) for a man to marry many wives, have the same sense of right and wrong as a culture who believes it is not OK ( wrong ) for a 13 year old girl to be married or for a man to have more than one wife?
If we all had the same sense of right and wrong, why are there so many different concepts of what is right ( acceptable) and what is wrong ( unacceptable)?

Do people who thinks it is OK for same sex people to have sexual relationships have the same sense of right and wrong as those who think it is not OK?

If you try to "stand back" from your own opinion and put yourself into the shoes of a person who thinks opposite to the way you do, can you still claim to have the same sense of right and wrong?

Most people seem to have a concept of right and wrong but not those concepts are the same. What seems to right to one person can seem wrong to another.

We are not all the same person in different bodies. If we were, we would all think the same and have the same standards. All people are unique individuals. We are like individual snowflakes which together make a snowfield or like individual drops of water which together make an ocean. We are like individual cells which together make a body.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/29/2015 3:34:43 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Correction....
Most people seem to have a concept of right and wrong but not ALL those concepts are the same.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/30/2015 5:09:09 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 3:34:43 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Correction....
Most people seem to have a concept of right and wrong but not ALL those concepts are the same.

Sky... i am going to back him up on one aspect... we all know not to rape, kill, imprison, torture, hurt maliciously/egregiously/etc. in any way another does not consent to... that is all. Everything else is fair game and subjective. I believe our labels of right and wrong are taking away a lot of peoples born to freedoms... we aren't quite that free yet, it's just a concept. I almost believe continents/states/borders should be divided to laws of land of "said" subjectivity... yet, that is still a satanic concept, for now.
Skyangel
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12/30/2015 6:06:44 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 5:09:09 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:34:43 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Correction....
Most people seem to have a concept of right and wrong but not ALL those concepts are the same.

Sky... i am going to back him up on one aspect... we all know not to rape, kill, imprison, torture, hurt maliciously/egregiously/etc. in any way another does not consent to... that is all.

We ALL know that do we? Have you asked ALL the people on earth to make sure that statement is 100% correct?
Your statement is sheer speculation and presumption. What about the people who rape, kill torture etc and have no sense of wrongdoing about it?
Not everyone has a conscience that works "normally" or "as expected" when it comes to feeling guilty about doing something others perceive as wrong. Some people are disabled in the conscience area the same as some are disabled in outwardly physical ways. Disabilities can be mental/ psychological and not so obvious on outward appearances. Not all disabilities are obvious.

Everything else is fair game and subjective. I believe our labels of right and wrong are taking away a lot of peoples born to freedoms... we aren't quite that free yet, it's just a concept. I almost believe continents/states/borders should be divided to laws of land of "said" subjectivity... yet, that is still a satanic concept, for now.

We are all free to behave according to human laws and expectations. We are free to follow our instincts or practise self control and violate our own instincts. We are also free to disobey the laws and expectations of other people but when we do we will pay the price and suffer the consequences of human judgements.
Therefore we are free to do anything we like as long as we are prepared to pay the price for our actions. All actions have a payment, reward, consequence, or punishment.
Not all people choose their consequences wisely. Not all people understand the consequences of their actions.
Not all people have exactly the same concepts of good and evil. Many call evil good and good evil.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,267
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12/30/2015 6:51:55 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 6:06:44 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 5:09:09 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:34:43 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Correction....
Most people seem to have a concept of right and wrong but not ALL those concepts are the same.

Sky... i am going to back him up on one aspect... we all know not to rape, kill, imprison, torture, hurt maliciously/egregiously/etc. in any way another does not consent to... that is all.

We ALL know that do we? Have you asked ALL the people on earth to make sure that statement is 100% correct?
Your statement is sheer speculation and presumption. What about the people who rape, kill torture etc and have no sense of wrongdoing about it?
Not everyone has a conscience that works "normally" or "as expected" when it comes to feeling guilty about doing something others perceive as wrong. Some people are disabled in the conscience area the same as some are disabled in outwardly physical ways. Disabilities can be mental/ psychological and not so obvious on outward appearances. Not all disabilities are obvious.

I am referencing the idea of "innate" right and wrong. I am also quoting what you said in your response to it. Yes, some think marrying a 13 year old is okay... but, in almost every single one; no, in every single one "if" mental illness isn't present, the acts i listed is clearly known to be right and wrong. I'm just saying across the entire spectrum, when one takes away something you love and hurts it, you innately know it's wrong...although yes, selfish in a way. So, what if a child offered her left index finger to a cannibal to eat: both of consent, the father loves the child, but the father must know there is no pain in the daughters consent and must let go... If i could make all those acts legal on a continent and said, "go there at your own risk" do you think people would go? Should we care what they do to each other if all consented to be there? So, yes... i do have a loose definition of right and wrong; good and evil... but, i can confidently say, the listed items above, on all spectrum of types... is usually considered "wrong."

Everything else is fair game and subjective. I believe our labels of right and wrong are taking away a lot of peoples born to freedoms... we aren't quite that free yet, it's just a concept. I almost believe continents/states/borders should be divided to laws of land of "said" subjectivity... yet, that is still a satanic concept, for now.

We are all free to behave according to human laws and expectations. We are free to follow our instincts or practise self control and violate our own instincts. We are also free to disobey the laws and expectations of other people but when we do we will pay the price and suffer the consequences of human judgements.
Therefore we are free to do anything we like as long as we are prepared to pay the price for our actions. All actions have a payment, reward, consequence, or punishment.
Not all people choose their consequences wisely. Not all people understand the consequences of their actions.
Not all people have exactly the same concepts of good and evil. Many call evil good and good evil.

I absolutely agree. Whoever you choose to be, whatever you choose to do, has its destiny, has its pros ad cons, has its consequences. I am just starting to believe we need to split ourselves up. There aren't that many different types. So, why not make a state with different laws? Florida: No law on drugs and sex... go there at your own accord. If it gets out of hand... well, it was their choice. Actually, we are holding so much back bc of religion...we are like children that did something wrong worrying about time outs... i don't even want to start...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/30/2015 7:13:54 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 6:51:55 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/30/2015 6:06:44 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/30/2015 5:09:09 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 12/29/2015 3:34:43 AM, Skyangel wrote:
Correction....
Most people seem to have a concept of right and wrong but not ALL those concepts are the same.

Sky... i am going to back him up on one aspect... we all know not to rape, kill, imprison, torture, hurt maliciously/egregiously/etc. in any way another does not consent to... that is all.

We ALL know that do we? Have you asked ALL the people on earth to make sure that statement is 100% correct?
Your statement is sheer speculation and presumption. What about the people who rape, kill torture etc and have no sense of wrongdoing about it?
Not everyone has a conscience that works "normally" or "as expected" when it comes to feeling guilty about doing something others perceive as wrong. Some people are disabled in the conscience area the same as some are disabled in outwardly physical ways. Disabilities can be mental/ psychological and not so obvious on outward appearances. Not all disabilities are obvious.

I am referencing the idea of "innate" right and wrong. I am also quoting what you said in your response to it. Yes, some think marrying a 13 year old is okay... but, in almost every single one; no, in every single one "if" mental illness isn't present, the acts i listed is clearly known to be right and wrong. I'm just saying across the entire spectrum, when one takes away something you love and hurts it, you innately know it's wrong...although yes, selfish in a way. So, what if a child offered her left index finger to a cannibal to eat: both of consent, the father loves the child, but the father must know there is no pain in the daughters consent and must let go... If i could make all those acts legal on a continent and said, "go there at your own risk" do you think people would go? Should we care what they do to each other if all consented to be there? So, yes... i do have a loose definition of right and wrong; good and evil... but, i can confidently say, the listed items above, on all spectrum of types... is usually considered "wrong."

"Innate" right and wrong is not the same in all people.
Mental illness is not always obvious.
However when you take mental illness into consideration, your original statement " we all know not to rape, kill, imprison, torture, hurt maliciously etc " Is false because obviously mentally retarded people do not ALL know what sane people know and not ALL humans on Earth are sane.
You end with "Usually considered wrong" Which is vastly different from "We ALL know....."
However, its good to see you are learning not to make sweeping statements about what ALL know.

Everything else is fair game and subjective. I believe our labels of right and wrong are taking away a lot of peoples born to freedoms... we aren't quite that free yet, it's just a concept. I almost believe continents/states/borders should be divided to laws of land of "said" subjectivity... yet, that is still a satanic concept, for now.

We are all free to behave according to human laws and expectations. We are free to follow our instincts or practise self control and violate our own instincts. We are also free to disobey the laws and expectations of other people but when we do we will pay the price and suffer the consequences of human judgements.
Therefore we are free to do anything we like as long as we are prepared to pay the price for our actions. All actions have a payment, reward, consequence, or punishment.
Not all people choose their consequences wisely. Not all people understand the consequences of their actions.
Not all people have exactly the same concepts of good and evil. Many call evil good and good evil.

I absolutely agree. Whoever you choose to be, whatever you choose to do, has its destiny, has its pros ad cons, has its consequences. I am just starting to believe we need to split ourselves up. There aren't that many different types. So, why not make a state with different laws? Florida: No law on drugs and sex... go there at your own accord. If it gets out of hand... well, it was their choice. Actually, we are holding so much back bc of religion...we are like children that did something wrong worrying about time outs... i don't even want to start...

People already split themselves up according to cultures languages, beliefs, etc. Splitting up seems to come naturally. Coming together and understanding each other is the hard part because every culture wants the others to conform to their standards when they join them. That is understandable and not unreasonable since every family also expects outside visitors to obey their house rules when coming to their homes.
The ironic thing is that people claim they want unity. peace and understanding yet their actions say otherwise as the birds of a feather flock together and create different rules and laws in different groups, families or cultures. Everyone wants others to understand them but they don't seem to make much effort to understand others.

I don't think people are so afraid of religion or gods as they are afraid of what other people will do to them if they don't obey the rulers of the groups. .... Banning? Rejection ? Disfellowshiping ? Other punishments? Death ?