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Muslims Leaving Islam.

uncung
Posts: 3,468
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12/30/2015 6:31:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Why did he leave Islam?
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,612
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12/30/2015 1:20:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 6:31:52 AM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Why did he leave Islam?

Who cares why. The point is that it's their lives and they have a human right to worship in whatever religion they want or, not at all. Islam is not a cult.
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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12/30/2015 1:29:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:20:17 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 12/30/2015 6:31:52 AM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Why did he leave Islam?

Who cares why. The point is that it's their lives and they have a human right to worship in whatever religion they want or, not at all. Islam is not a cult.

I care about his reason if any.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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12/30/2015 2:21:57 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I think young Muslim men leave Islam because they want to have sex with older women and not be forced to marry them. On the other hand older men want to become Muslims so they can have sex with very young girls ( 6 and older) and be allowed to marry them.
lotsoffun
Posts: 1,612
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12/30/2015 5:46:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:29:29 PM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:20:17 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 12/30/2015 6:31:52 AM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Why did he leave Islam?

Who cares why. The point is that it's their lives and they have a human right to worship in whatever religion they want or, not at all. Islam is not a cult.

I care about his reason if any.

I can't help you
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/30/2015 5:52:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:29:29 PM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:20:17 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 12/30/2015 6:31:52 AM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Why did he leave Islam?

Who cares why. The point is that it's their lives and they have a human right to worship in whatever religion they want or, not at all. Islam is not a cult.

I care about his reason if any.

Why? Seriously, why should it matter for a second why another decides to leave Islam?
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/30/2015 6:00:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 5:52:53 PM, TBR wrote:

Why? Seriously, why should it matter for a second why another decides to leave Islam?

- In the classical system, it matters. But, I doubt @uncung knows anything about that. The schools which mandate punishing the act of apostasy don't accept whimsical change of religion. According to these schools, unless the apostate has a valid reason for leaving the religion, he will be punished, unless he repents.
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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graceofgod
Posts: 5,104
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12/30/2015 6:01:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

they have to leave family, friends and communities or they will be killed..

fear keeps muslims in line..
uncung
Posts: 3,468
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12/30/2015 6:14:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 5:52:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:29:29 PM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:20:17 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 12/30/2015 6:31:52 AM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Why did he leave Islam?

Who cares why. The point is that it's their lives and they have a human right to worship in whatever religion they want or, not at all. Islam is not a cult.

I care about his reason if any.

Why? Seriously, why should it matter for a second why another decides to leave Islam?

Because many apostate videos are fake, that I call them as the Studio Apostasy . That's why I want to know their reason of leaving Islam. If they cannot provide the logical reason then I consider them as Studio Apostasy.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/30/2015 6:16:57 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 6:14:26 PM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 5:52:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:29:29 PM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:20:17 PM, lotsoffun wrote:
At 12/30/2015 6:31:52 AM, uncung wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Why did he leave Islam?

Who cares why. The point is that it's their lives and they have a human right to worship in whatever religion they want or, not at all. Islam is not a cult.

I care about his reason if any.

Why? Seriously, why should it matter for a second why another decides to leave Islam?

Because many apostate videos are fake, that I call them as the Studio Apostasy . That's why I want to know their reason of leaving Islam. If they cannot provide the logical reason then I consider them as Studio Apostasy.

I see. But in the case of an actual person leaving Islam. You have no issue with that then.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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12/30/2015 9:47:22 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Response: The video shows nothing of the sort. If a person wants to leave Islam, then leave. That simple.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/30/2015 9:55:15 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 9:47:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:39:07 AM, lotsoffun wrote:
This is a video that shows how difficult it is for Muslims to leave Islam.

https://www.youtube.com...

Response: The video shows nothing of the sort. If a person wants to leave Islam, then leave. That simple.

What if they leave and speak poorly of their experiences with the religion?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,770
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12/30/2015 10:27:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 9:55:15 PM, TBR wrote:

What if they leave and speak poorly of their experiences with the religion?

Response: Then they would be people who speak poorly of their experiences with the religion.
AbuJarir
Posts: 91
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12/31/2015 2:11:59 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
And on the contrary Islam is the fastest growing religion. There will come two diffrent points first one is when Islam will become the majority than when Islam becomes the smallest religion on Earth.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/31/2015 3:29:34 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 9:55:15 PM, TBR wrote:

What if they leave and speak poorly of their experiences with the religion?

- From whom exactly are you seeking an answer?
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/31/2015 4:24:11 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 3:29:34 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/30/2015 9:55:15 PM, TBR wrote:

What if they leave and speak poorly of their experiences with the religion?

- From whom exactly are you seeking an answer?

Just probing. What else?

Look. You can tell me, or think I am on a witch hunt. Your choice.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/31/2015 4:34:26 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 4:24:11 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/31/2015 3:29:34 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/30/2015 9:55:15 PM, TBR wrote:

What if they leave and speak poorly of their experiences with the religion?

- From whom exactly are you seeking an answer?

Just probing. What else?

Look. You can tell me, or think I am on a witch hunt. Your choice.

- You misunderstood my question. You inquire about an answer concerning an issue. Whose opinion are you seeking? Islamic Law in general? A particular school within Islam? The Law of a particular Muslim country? Some Islamist movement or ideology? Fati's own impression? British Muslims' feelings about it? British Law? Some other country's Muslims feelings about it? I could go on. There are hundreds, if not thousands of possible answers.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
lotsoffun
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12/31/2015 4:34:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 2:11:59 AM, AbuJarir wrote:
And on the contrary Islam is the fastest growing religion. There will come two diffrent points first one is when Islam will become the majority than when Islam becomes the smallest religion on Earth.

People leave Islam every day and many want to leave but are afraid because of family and societal pressures. This was perfectly indicated in the video. Don't lie to yourself. Islam is only the fastest growing religion because of its birthrate.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/31/2015 4:39:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 4:34:26 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/31/2015 4:24:11 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/31/2015 3:29:34 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/30/2015 9:55:15 PM, TBR wrote:

What if they leave and speak poorly of their experiences with the religion?

- From whom exactly are you seeking an answer?

Just probing. What else?

Look. You can tell me, or think I am on a witch hunt. Your choice.

- You misunderstood my question. You inquire about an answer concerning an issue. Whose opinion are you seeking? Islamic Law in general? A particular school within Islam? The Law of a particular Muslim country? Some Islamist movement or ideology? Fati's own impression? British Muslims' feelings about it? British Law? Some other country's Muslims feelings about it? I could go on. There are hundreds, if not thousands of possible answers.

I see. How about you? How about 'Islamic' law? How about whatever school you care to discuss? How about just talking about it without trying to turn it into a tedious discussion like always?
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/31/2015 4:56:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 4:39:22 AM, TBR wrote:

I see. How about you?

- I personally don't care either way. Virtually all ex-muslims I know, seen, or heard of know next to nothing about the religion. They can speak out as loud as they like, it's not gonna make their claims any more than rumours. Convincing others equally ignorant about the religion is not big feat, at all. Anyone can convince an ignorant. Now, an ex-muslim with a valid argument against the actual religion, now that I'll be interested in.

How about 'Islamic' law?

- I would say that depends on a bunch of things. Apostasy in Islamic Law is categorised as a "political offence" not as "criminal offence". So, nature, degree, circumstances, consequences, objectives, benefits, & specially: state decision... play a big role in determining the outcome.

How about whatever school you care to discuss?

- Well, different schools have different positions. Some schools punish apostasy that involves high treason, banditry, revolt & such. Some schools punish apostasy that involves all kinds of militancy or hostility. Some schools punish even whimsical apostasy... & so on. The Hanafi legal school, for instance, the largest among Sunnis, punishes militancy in apostasy, not apostasy itself.

How about just talking about it without trying to turn it into a tedious discussion like always?

- Well, I just wanna make sure what "it" are we talking about, which you haven't specified.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/31/2015 5:03:10 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 4:56:46 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/31/2015 4:39:22 AM, TBR wrote:

I see. How about you?

- I personally don't care either way. Virtually all ex-muslims I know, seen, or heard of know next to nothing about the religion. They can speak out as loud as they like, it's not gonna make their claims any more than rumours. Convincing others equally ignorant about the religion is not big feat, at all. Anyone can convince an ignorant. Now, an ex-muslim with a valid argument against the actual religion, now that I'll be interested in.

You don't care, but add lots of caveats. It seems you do care. You care how much they know about the religion etc.

How about 'Islamic' law?

- I would say that depends on a bunch of things. Apostasy in Islamic Law is categorised as a "political offence" not as "criminal offence". So, nature, degree, circumstances, consequences, objectives, benefits, & specially: state decision... play a big role in determining the outcome.

Hum. Well....

How about whatever school you care to discuss?

- Well, different schools have different positions. Some schools punish apostasy that involves high treason, banditry, revolt & such. Some schools punish apostasy that involves all kinds of militancy or hostility. Some schools punish even whimsical apostasy... & so on. The Hanafi legal school, for instance, the largest among Sunnis, punishes militancy in apostasy, not apostasy itself.

Yea, not liking it.

How about just talking about it without trying to turn it into a tedious discussion like always?

- Well, I just wanna make sure what "it" are we talking about, which you haven't specified.
Well, we have now, right?
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/31/2015 5:08:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 5:03:10 AM, TBR wrote:

You don't care, but add lots of caveats. It seems you do care. You care how much they know about the religion etc.

- Nope, don't care about what they do or don't. Yes, I'd care if they have something interesting to say.

Hum. Well....

...

Yea, not liking it.

- Answers aren't meant to be necessarily liked, especially very general ones. Now, do you have something to say, or I am to expect the usual dismissals.

Well, we have now, right?

- Somewhat, maybe.
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/31/2015 5:12:29 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 5:08:46 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/31/2015 5:03:10 AM, TBR wrote:

You don't care, but add lots of caveats. It seems you do care. You care how much they know about the religion etc.

- Nope, don't care about what they do or don't. Yes, I'd care if they have something interesting to say.

Hum. Well....

...

Yea, not liking it.

- Answers aren't meant to be necessarily liked, especially very general ones. Now, do you have something to say, or I am to expect the usual dismissals.

Well, we have now, right?

- Somewhat, maybe.

It seems to me Yassine that few religions accept people leaving very well. It also seems to me that Islam has a particular problem with it. That is what the OP is hinting at, and I can't say he is entirely wrong.

You do nothing to convince me otherwise. I am not saying they are all persecuted, just that Islam seems less tolerant of apostates. I have seen nothing to say otherwise.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/31/2015 5:32:30 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 5:12:29 AM, TBR wrote:

It seems to me Yassine that few religions accept people leaving very well.

- Punishment for apostasy exists in virtually all religions, including all Abrahamic religions.

It also seems to me that Islam has a particular problem with it.

- The problem being?

That is what the OP is hinting at, and I can't say he is entirely wrong.

- OK.

You do nothing to convince me otherwise.

- I can't convince you otherwise, if I don't know which part you deem is in need of convincing. I can't read your mind you know.

I am not saying they are all persecuted, just that Islam seems less tolerant of apostates.

- Why do you think so?

I have seen nothing to say otherwise.

- Alright, here are some questions to put things into perspective, what value you deem violated if apostasy is punished? Why is such value essential? Or is it?
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...