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A Challenge to Those who Deny the Bible

be_diligent
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12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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12/30/2015 3:36:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I am afraid that I will be unable to accept your challenge, as I lack any knowledge of the ancient languages in which the various bits of the bible were written.
be_diligent
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12/30/2015 3:40:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:36:02 PM, desmac wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I am afraid that I will be unable to accept your challenge, as I lack any knowledge of the ancient languages in which the various bits of the bible were written.

Well Desmak there are tool available for just that purpose. I'll give you direct links that will allow you to examine interpreted words from Greek and Hebrew to help your case.

Strong's online concordance:
http://www.eliyah.com...

Interlinear Bible which lists the actual translations word for word along with the original text.

http://biblehub.com...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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12/30/2015 3:52:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I could make that argument. However, I am aware of many many flaws in the Bible (that illustrates it is not the work of a competent, all powerful being), and the argument would be difficult against anyone who had the same information. Conversely, it is an easy argument to make to anyone who knows little of the Bible - that's what preachers do for a career.

Either way, it would be deception and I don't want to encourage ignorance.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
desmac
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12/30/2015 3:53:50 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:40:24 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:36:02 PM, desmac wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I am afraid that I will be unable to accept your challenge, as I lack any knowledge of the ancient languages in which the various bits of the bible were written.

Well Desmak there are tool available for just that purpose. I'll give you direct links that will allow you to examine interpreted words from Greek and Hebrew to help your case.

Strong's online concordance:
http://www.eliyah.com...

Interlinear Bible which lists the actual translations word for word along with the original text.

http://biblehub.com...

Even with those very useful tools, how can I trust the translations of the original texts without seeing those original texts?
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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12/30/2015 4:33:41 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:53:50 PM, desmac wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:40:24 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:36:02 PM, desmac wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I am afraid that I will be unable to accept your challenge, as I lack any knowledge of the ancient languages in which the various bits of the bible were written.

Well Desmak there are tool available for just that purpose. I'll give you direct links that will allow you to examine interpreted words from Greek and Hebrew to help your case.

Strong's online concordance:
http://www.eliyah.com...

Interlinear Bible which lists the actual translations word for word along with the original text.

http://biblehub.com...

Even with those very useful tools, how can I trust the translations of the original texts without seeing those original texts?

You could always do some research to see who actually translated it. That might help. Do you understand science to the level of an actual scientist? It's as easy as that.
be_diligent
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12/30/2015 4:34:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:52:29 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I could make that argument. However, I am aware of many many flaws in the Bible (that illustrates it is not the work of a competent, all powerful being), and the argument would be difficult against anyone who had the same information. Conversely, it is an easy argument to make to anyone who knows little of the Bible - that's what preachers do for a career.

Either way, it would be deception and I don't want to encourage ignorance.

You absolutely could not make the argument, because you've already demonstrated your lack of knowledge regarding the bible.

The only ignorance you are encouraging is your own.
be_diligent
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12/30/2015 4:37:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I'm very impressed with Desmac, up to this point, he shows the ability and willingness to actually look into matters.

Not many will do that.
be_diligent
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12/30/2015 4:39:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I'm on my way out to get some work done. I'm looking forward to seeing the responses. Be back in a few hours.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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12/30/2015 4:55:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
It is damn near impossible to defend "The Bible" in a way that makes sense as many books in it are contradictory.

If you asked me to defend one of the early Christian branches, that would be much easier.

Also, to be open minded is not to be able to play devil's advocate, it is to be willing t change your mind when the evidence persuades you.

As a skeptic, I have an open mind. It just isn't open too far that my brain falls out.

And before you claim I am just ignorant of the Bible (since that appears to be your defense), I actually am going to college to study early Christianity and, as a result, I study the Bible (mostly the New Testament) in a historical context.
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Malsent
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12/30/2015 5:12:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I'll take your challenge on one simple condition--that you first prove how open minded you are by doing the same with an opposing religion. Your choice of religion, though if you choose Judaism I would request that your proof of its truth includes showing that Jesus is not the messiah.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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12/30/2015 5:40:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

If you're serious about challenging someone who does not believe the Bible is the written word of God to argue contrary to what they have concluded is factual... then you should be able to approach the Bible differently, read it objectively, without predisposed belief that anything written there is divine and without alliegence to what you've been taught. Then form an argument against it. I would wager that most believers of the Bible would find that a very difficult task.

For the sake of this argument I will say that believing in something, no matter how strong your conviction, does not make it true. Truth and belief are different. If every deity that has ever been believed to be true existed as pure factual truth, then we would have a hundred thousand gods fighting over the petty actions and misfortunes of mankind.

As for the Bible, it's no different than any other book ever published. All the books in the Bible scream bias and most make outlandish claims. Claims that only hold weight for those who are willing to throw truth out the window for blind belief. Biased opinions that result from predisposed beliefs are part of the human condition. Every religion, spiritual teaching, philosophy, and even atheists fall into that trap. We get snared up in our bias. Good luck finding someone who can or will to do this.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Burzmali
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12/30/2015 6:43:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

Which version of the bible? And do you mean literally true, or true in terms of whatever interpretations are allowed by the alleged metaphors in it? I'll just tell you right now that I don't think anyone could support the claim that people used to live to the age of 200 and beyond.
Skepticalone
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12/30/2015 7:25:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 4:34:52 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:52:29 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I could make that argument. However, I am aware of many many flaws in the Bible (that illustrates it is not the work of a competent, all powerful being), and the argument would be difficult against anyone who had the same information. Conversely, it is an easy argument to make to anyone who knows little of the Bible - that's what preachers do for a career.

Either way, it would be deception and I don't want to encourage ignorance.

You absolutely could not make the argument, because you've already demonstrated your lack of knowledge regarding the bible.

The only ignorance you are encouraging is your own.

Knowledge tells us a perfect being is not needed to explain the scientific absurdities, historical anachronisms, additions, contradictions, etc. within the Bible and actually point to nothing more spectacular than ordinary humans.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
MaxSterling
Posts: 62
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12/30/2015 8:12:14 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I mean the largest issue with 'proving a religion right' is that you have to inevitably prove that the faith in question does in fact have a deity backing it which, especially in the case of the Abrahamic faiths, is pretty much impossible to do. It's not 'biased' to say that I don't want to touch an unfalsifiable hypothesis. I would be willing to defend the historicity of some of the events in the bible but it's all still couched in so much allegory and myth that it's also nigh impossible to craft a good argument around it.

If the point of the challenge was to convince another atheist that the bible is truth then of course that shiz is difficult. If the point is to convince you that any of us meet your standards of legitimacy for whatever reason then that's a different story
"But why do you want REVENGE?!"

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Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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12/30/2015 8:42:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 8:13:50 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Bible prophecies keep coming true, but Atheists are tok busy hoping Jesus is wrong.

If Jesus took tbe prophesies seriously, he would have waited for the destruction of the temple and then announced he was tbe messiah come to establish a new kingdom for the Jews. They would have willingly accepted him after seeing their temple and holy city destroyed by the Romans. That would have been the right time for a messiah to arrive.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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12/30/2015 8:45:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 8:42:40 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 12/30/2015 8:13:50 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Bible prophecies keep coming true, but Atheists are tok busy hoping Jesus is wrong.

If Jesus took tbe prophesies seriously, he would have waited for the destruction of the temple and then announced he was tbe messiah come to establish a new kingdom for the Jews. They would have willingly accepted him after seeing their temple and holy city destroyed by the Romans. That would have been the right time for a messiah to arrive.

There ya go trying to tell an omniscient being how they should do things again.
Harikrish
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12/30/2015 8:50:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.
I am sure similar challenges were made to Christians to prove that the bible was God's word and there were no takers.
Maybe your open mind and scientific bent will cause the members here to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God and remove all further arguments.
be_diligent
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12/30/2015 8:55:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 5:12:04 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I'll take your challenge on one simple condition--that you first prove how open minded you are by doing the same with an opposing religion. Your choice of religion, though if you choose Judaism I would request that your proof of its truth includes showing that Jesus is not the messiah.

You already know that I will never deny Jesus. I know who my savior is. There's no question in my mind whatsoever,

I actually expected that someone would come in with that line of thought, because you know full well that I will never deny Him, and it's easier for you to call me on that than to actually look into the matter.

I studied world religions in College as part of my prerequisites as I figured that it's a good idea to know what others believe. I've also studied ancient religions, and many of the systems that tie into those beliefs today. So I do not base my arguments on ignorance or unwillingness to examine other belief systems. In fact, I was a non-believer for most of my life too.

But I assure you, that I will never deny Jesus. Nobody who truly believes , (or knows the truth) would accept such an erroneous challenge.

I will, however, examine your contradictions (on another thread, as this thread has a specific purpose.) If you are willing to actually look at the scriptures, and agree to actually read the verses that I post.

There are no implications for you other than the fact that you might learn something and so might I.

The original challenge still stands.
Harikrish
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12/30/2015 8:58:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 8:45:24 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 12/30/2015 8:42:40 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 12/30/2015 8:13:50 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
Bible prophecies keep coming true, but Atheists are tok busy hoping Jesus is wrong.

If Jesus took tbe prophesies seriously, he would have waited for the destruction of the temple and then announced he was tbe messiah come to establish a new kingdom for the Jews. They would have willingly accepted him after seeing their temple and holy city destroyed by the Romans. That would have been the right time for a messiah to arrive.

There ya go trying to tell an omniscient being how they should do things again.

With the benefit of hindsight it is easy to see why things went wrong and how different the outcome would be if Jesus disagreed with God's timing and picked a more suitable moment for his entry. Instead he just followed orders and got himself crucified.
be_diligent
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12/30/2015 9:00:48 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 4:55:01 PM, SNP1 wrote:
It is damn near impossible to defend "The Bible" in a way that makes sense as many books in it are contradictory.

If you asked me to defend one of the early Christian branches, that would be much easier.

Also, to be open minded is not to be able to play devil's advocate, it is to be willing t change your mind when the evidence persuades you.

As a skeptic, I have an open mind. It just isn't open too far that my brain falls out.

And before you claim I am just ignorant of the Bible (since that appears to be your defense), I actually am going to college to study early Christianity and, as a result, I study the Bible (mostly the New Testament) in a historical context.

That's awesome that you are studying the bible in College. That means that you have something to offer in regards to the original post.

I studied world religions in College, (That was actually the course title.) Along with ancient religions, (The title as well.) I think I still have to text books.

What is the name of the course that you are taking. Most of the courses that I took involved the entire belief system from beginning to end. I've never heard of one that focuses only on a portion of a belief system. Please share.

Thanks.
Harikrish
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12/30/2015 9:05:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 4:37:34 PM, be_diligent wrote:
I'm very impressed with Desmac, up to this point, he shows the ability and willingness to actually look into matters.

Not many will do that.

Desmac has just 3 more friends than you. He has nothing to lose agreeing with you. You might even end up being his only fourth friend on DDO.
Malsent
Posts: 29
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12/30/2015 9:17:50 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 8:55:55 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 5:12:04 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I'll take your challenge on one simple condition--that you first prove how open minded you are by doing the same with an opposing religion. Your choice of religion, though if you choose Judaism I would request that your proof of its truth includes showing that Jesus is not the messiah.

You already know that I will never deny Jesus. I know who my savior is. There's no question in my mind whatsoever,

I actually expected that someone would come in with that line of thought, because you know full well that I will never deny Him, and it's easier for you to call me on that than to actually look into the matter.

I studied world religions in College as part of my prerequisites as I figured that it's a good idea to know what others believe. I've also studied ancient religions, and many of the systems that tie into those beliefs today. So I do not base my arguments on ignorance or unwillingness to examine other belief systems. In fact, I was a non-believer for most of my life too.

But I assure you, that I will never deny Jesus. Nobody who truly believes , (or knows the truth) would accept such an erroneous challenge.

I will, however, examine your contradictions (on another thread, as this thread has a specific purpose.) If you are willing to actually look at the scriptures, and agree to actually read the verses that I post.

There are no implications for you other than the fact that you might learn something and so might I.

The original challenge still stands.

To be clear, I do not hold my position on ignorance. I have read the entire Bible in multiple translations, have also studied world religions in college, have also read many gnostic Christian works, and studied varied occult/mystical practices. Any verse you post I have already read and probably studied from a Christian viewpoint (I was raised evangelical). In fact, I could probably quote sayings of Christ that you are not even aware of! For example, did you know that Jesus claimed that Moses was wrong in his descriptions of the formation of the Earth and creation of man?

I'm not asking you to deny Christ, I was simply seeing if you could actually put your boasts of open-mindedness into practice which you are flatly refusing to do. If you can't do the same for another religion then I simply see no reason to (yet again) put my own time and effort into playing devil's advocate against atheism for Christianity. You are asking me to do the work for you to complete a challenge you won't do yourself. That is unfair and you know it; and I simply see no reason to waste my time in such a manner.

So, I'll ask you again, will you play along? Or are you just full of hot air when claiming to be open minded?
be_diligent
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12/30/2015 9:29:21 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 8:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.
I am sure similar challenges were made to Christians to prove that the bible was God's word and there were no takers.
Maybe your open mind and scientific bent will cause the members here to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God and remove all further arguments.

I highly doubt that it will remove all arguments. There are even arguments between believers of specific religious systems that do not agree with one another. Christianity consists of over 22,000 denominations that do not agree with one another on all points. So then it comes down to denying that it is true based on what some teach, what they've heard, or a person can search it out with an open mind and a sincere heart.

Incidentally, many scientists disagree on different subjects as well, and even within the scientific community there are debates about different studies and theories. Those arguments will rage on as well.

I've read about cases where different atheists set out to absolutely prove that the bible is in error. Quite noble men, who came out on the other-side of the pursuit only to prove to themselves that it is true. I've personally met an atheist who believed on basing his arguments on what he had searched out, and this young man could outdo almost any believer. He actually took the time to examine different aspects and would engage in meaningful discussions that involved what he was finding in the bible, and what others were teaching. I was very impressed with him. I do not know if he ever converted, but I did see him discovering some amazing things, and although we lost contact over the years, I certainly hope that he is a believer today. I had great respect for him because he argued his points based on what he personally studied, and he actually listened to the other side of the argument.

Christian denominational statistics;

https://theway21stcentury.wordpress.com...

There are several examples of non-believers who search it out for themselves. Here's a few examples:

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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12/30/2015 9:39:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 9:17:50 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 8:55:55 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 5:12:04 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I'll take your challenge on one simple condition--that you first prove how open minded you are by doing the same with an opposing religion. Your choice of religion, though if you choose Judaism I would request that your proof of its truth includes showing that Jesus is not the messiah.

You already know that I will never deny Jesus. I know who my savior is. There's no question in my mind whatsoever,

I actually expected that someone would come in with that line of thought, because you know full well that I will never deny Him, and it's easier for you to call me on that than to actually look into the matter.

I studied world religions in College as part of my prerequisites as I figured that it's a good idea to know what others believe. I've also studied ancient religions, and many of the systems that tie into those beliefs today. So I do not base my arguments on ignorance or unwillingness to examine other belief systems. In fact, I was a non-believer for most of my life too.

But I assure you, that I will never deny Jesus. Nobody who truly believes , (or knows the truth) would accept such an erroneous challenge.

I will, however, examine your contradictions (on another thread, as this thread has a specific purpose.) If you are willing to actually look at the scriptures, and agree to actually read the verses that I post.

There are no implications for you other than the fact that you might learn something and so might I.

The original challenge still stands.

To be clear, I do not hold my position on ignorance. I have read the entire Bible in multiple translations, have also studied world religions in college, have also read many gnostic Christian works, and studied varied occult/mystical practices. Any verse you post I have already read and probably studied from a Christian viewpoint (I was raised evangelical). In fact, I could probably quote sayings of Christ that you are not even aware of! For example, did you know that Jesus claimed that Moses was wrong in his descriptions of the formation of the Earth and creation of man?

I'm not asking you to deny Christ, I was simply seeing if you could actually put your boasts of open-mindedness into practice which you are flatly refusing to do. If you can't do the same for another religion then I simply see no reason to (yet again) put my own time and effort into playing devil's advocate against atheism for Christianity. You are asking me to do the work for you to complete a challenge you won't do yourself. That is unfair and you know it; and I simply see no reason to waste my time in such a manner.

So, I'll ask you again, will you play along? Or are you just full of hot air when claiming to be open minded?

It is not the same thing that you are asking and you know it. Playing the "devils advocate," has no implications for one who does not believe. When I was a non-believer there were no serious implications for such a challenge. However, you are not playing the "devils advocate," you are his advocate.

I must also add, that if you know what the bible says, you would not even ask such a thing as there is only one who ever asked anyone to make such a statement, and I'm guessing that you know who it was who made the request. You are already being his advocate. I'm not ignorant to what you are attempting to do, and the implications are far greater than most understand.
Malsent
Posts: 29
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12/30/2015 9:53:45 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 9:39:11 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 9:17:50 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 8:55:55 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 5:12:04 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I'll take your challenge on one simple condition--that you first prove how open minded you are by doing the same with an opposing religion. Your choice of religion, though if you choose Judaism I would request that your proof of its truth includes showing that Jesus is not the messiah.

You already know that I will never deny Jesus. I know who my savior is. There's no question in my mind whatsoever,

I actually expected that someone would come in with that line of thought, because you know full well that I will never deny Him, and it's easier for you to call me on that than to actually look into the matter.

I studied world religions in College as part of my prerequisites as I figured that it's a good idea to know what others believe. I've also studied ancient religions, and many of the systems that tie into those beliefs today. So I do not base my arguments on ignorance or unwillingness to examine other belief systems. In fact, I was a non-believer for most of my life too.

But I assure you, that I will never deny Jesus. Nobody who truly believes , (or knows the truth) would accept such an erroneous challenge.

I will, however, examine your contradictions (on another thread, as this thread has a specific purpose.) If you are willing to actually look at the scriptures, and agree to actually read the verses that I post.

There are no implications for you other than the fact that you might learn something and so might I.

The original challenge still stands.

To be clear, I do not hold my position on ignorance. I have read the entire Bible in multiple translations, have also studied world religions in college, have also read many gnostic Christian works, and studied varied occult/mystical practices. Any verse you post I have already read and probably studied from a Christian viewpoint (I was raised evangelical). In fact, I could probably quote sayings of Christ that you are not even aware of! For example, did you know that Jesus claimed that Moses was wrong in his descriptions of the formation of the Earth and creation of man?

I'm not asking you to deny Christ, I was simply seeing if you could actually put your boasts of open-mindedness into practice which you are flatly refusing to do. If you can't do the same for another religion then I simply see no reason to (yet again) put my own time and effort into playing devil's advocate against atheism for Christianity. You are asking me to do the work for you to complete a challenge you won't do yourself. That is unfair and you know it; and I simply see no reason to waste my time in such a manner.

So, I'll ask you again, will you play along? Or are you just full of hot air when claiming to be open minded?

It is not the same thing that you are asking and you know it. Playing the "devils advocate," has no implications for one who does not believe. When I was a non-believer there were no serious implications for such a challenge. However, you are not playing the "devils advocate," you are his advocate.

I must also add, that if you know what the bible says, you would not even ask such a thing as there is only one who ever asked anyone to make such a statement, and I'm guessing that you know who it was who made the request. You are already being his advocate. I'm not ignorant to what you are attempting to do, and the implications are far greater than most understand.

It is the same thing, I'm only asking you to play by the same rules as you want me to play by, if you won't do so that is fine but don't come here claiming to be open minded and oh so superior to us atheists when you can't do what you are challenging us to do. I think I have at this point sufficiently shown you to be a liar. The scriptures have some strong words to say about that. You're not being a very good witness by your god's standards. I think I will have to respectfully decline your challenge until you can revise it to keep the playing field even. Asking me to prove the bible true for you when you aren't willing to do the same for another religion of your choice is a ridiculous offer on your part.

And no, I'm not the devil's advocate, I deny his exist the same as YHWH's. Though, somewhat ironically, from a gnostic point of view YOU are actually the devil's advocate if you acknowledge YHWH as god; but you would have to have read a broader selection of gospels to know that.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,649
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12/30/2015 9:57:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

So.. this is a devious scheme shrouded by a false claim of open-mindedness in order to get non-believers to search for evidence for the validity of the bible and have a chance to change their non-believing ways, all through a form of reverse-psychology. Am I wrong?

Why do you think that people have rejected the bible in the first place, if not because of a lack of ability to find evidence to support it?
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/30/2015 11:17:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Since you so "open" can you name one thing in the bible is that is false or more likely to be false than true ?


Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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12/31/2015 12:26:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 9:53:45 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 9:39:11 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 9:17:50 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 8:55:55 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 5:12:04 PM, Malsent wrote:
At 12/30/2015 3:29:28 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Although I highly doubt that there will be any takers. I would love to see just one non-believer take the stance that the bible is true, and try to prove it in a serious manner.

As a Christian, I have the ability to look at science and examine the finding with an open mind, but non-believers do not have the ability to look at the bible in a positive way to prove that it is indeed the inspired word of God. Not even for the sake of argument.

Anyone?

Prove that you have the ability to do this. Or you can post silly remarks that will prove that you don't have the ability to make any unbiased arguments at all.

I'll take your challenge on one simple condition--that you first prove how open minded you are by doing the same with an opposing religion. Your choice of religion, though if you choose Judaism I would request that your proof of its truth includes showing that Jesus is not the messiah.

You already know that I will never deny Jesus. I know who my savior is. There's no question in my mind whatsoever,

I actually expected that someone would come in with that line of thought, because you know full well that I will never deny Him, and it's easier for you to call me on that than to actually look into the matter.

I studied world religions in College as part of my prerequisites as I figured that it's a good idea to know what others believe. I've also studied ancient religions, and many of the systems that tie into those beliefs today. So I do not base my arguments on ignorance or unwillingness to examine other belief systems. In fact, I was a non-believer for most of my life too.

But I assure you, that I will never deny Jesus. Nobody who truly believes , (or knows the truth) would accept such an erroneous challenge.

I will, however, examine your contradictions (on another thread, as this thread has a specific purpose.) If you are willing to actually look at the scriptures, and agree to actually read the verses that I post.

There are no implications for you other than the fact that you might learn something and so might I.

The original challenge still stands.

To be clear, I do not hold my position on ignorance. I have read the entire Bible in multiple translations, have also studied world religions in college, have also read many gnostic Christian works, and studied varied occult/mystical practices. Any verse you post I have already read and probably studied from a Christian viewpoint (I was raised evangelical). In fact, I could probably quote sayings of Christ that you are not even aware of! For example, did you know that Jesus claimed that Moses was wrong in his descriptions of the formation of the Earth and creation of man?

I'm not asking you to deny Christ, I was simply seeing if you could actually put your boasts of open-mindedness into practice which you are flatly refusing to do. If you can't do the same for another religion then I simply see no reason to (yet again) put my own time and effort into playing devil's advocate against atheism for Christianity. You are asking me to do the work for you to complete a challenge you won't do yourself. That is unfair and you know it; and I simply see no reason to waste my time in such a manner.

So, I'll ask you again, will you play along? Or are you just full of hot air when claiming to be open minded?

It is not the same thing that you are asking and you know it. Playing the "devils advocate," has no implications for one who does not believe. When I was a non-believer there were no serious implications for such a challenge. However, you are not playing the "devils advocate," you are his advocate.

I must also add, that if you know what the bible says, you would not even ask such a thing as there is only one who ever asked anyone to make such a statement, and I'm guessing that you know who it was who made the request. You are already being his advocate. I'm not ignorant to what you are attempting to do, and the implications are far greater than most understand.

It is the same thing, I'm only asking you to play by the same rules as you want me to play by, if you won't do so that is fine but don't come here claiming to be open minded and oh so superior to us atheists when you can't do what you are challenging us to do. I think I have at this point sufficiently shown you to be a liar. The scriptures have some strong words to say about that. You're not being a very good witness by your god's standards. I think I will have to respectfully decline your challenge until you can revise it to keep the playing field even. Asking me to prove the bible true for you when you aren't willing to do the same for another religion of your choice is a ridiculous offer on your part.

And no, I'm not the devil's advocate, I deny his exist the same as YHWH's. Though, somewhat ironically, from a gnostic point of view YOU are actually the devil's advocate if you acknowledge YHWH as god; but you would have to have read a broader selection of gospels to know that.

It doesn't matter how much you deny the truth. There are plenty of things that are yet to be discovered even in the natural world, not to mention the vastness of space. Just because you don't know about those things or believe in them doesn't mean that they aren't real.

This entire thread proved that each respondent who stands against the bible did not produce one verse, or make a single attempt to look into it, but rather turned to arguments to avoid taking the challenge. Which shows that they have no interest in even attempting to see if there is any validity to the bible. They only want to argue about what they don't understand.

The only one who even considered the challenge was Desmac. That showed me that he actually considers what he is talking about.

I now understand that the rules for discussion for non-believers are to avoid the actual content and context of a request rather than to actually look into it for themselves. Good show people....

It's always good when you learn something from a discussion. :)