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Myth: God Is a Trinity

Joshua_Verum
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1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
What is the origin of the myth?
"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.""New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, "of one substance with the Father." . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.""Encyclop"dia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-"mile Boismard wrote in his book " l"aube du christianisme"La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity"The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/1/2016 3:24:17 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
What is the origin of the myth?
"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.""New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, "of one substance with the Father." . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.""Encyclop"dia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

If the "Holy Spirit" (nevermind the caps and the distinct wording) were on the earth "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit" why should have Stephen seen Him in the vision? Stephen wouldn't have seen the three, since one of the three were on the earth....

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-"mile Boismard wrote in his book " l"aube du christianisme"La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity"The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention
Gentorev
Posts: 2,877
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1/1/2016 3:31:21 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 3:24:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
What is the origin of the myth?
"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.""New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, "of one substance with the Father." . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.""Encyclop"dia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

If the "Holy Spirit" (nevermind the caps and the distinct wording) were on the earth "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit" why should have Stephen seen Him in the vision? Stephen wouldn't have seen the three, since one of the three were on the earth....

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-"mile Boismard wrote in his book " l"aube du christianisme"La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity"The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

Not so my friend! The Hindu triad God of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva was around before even the first century.
The tongue, the sharp two edged sword that divides the spirit from the soul.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/1/2016 3:38:09 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 3:31:21 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:24:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
What is the origin of the myth?
"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.""New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, "of one substance with the Father." . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.""Encyclop"dia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

If the "Holy Spirit" (nevermind the caps and the distinct wording) were on the earth "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit" why should have Stephen seen Him in the vision? Stephen wouldn't have seen the three, since one of the three were on the earth....

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-"mile Boismard wrote in his book " l"aube du christianisme"La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity"The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

Not so my friend! The Hindu triad God of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva was around before even the first century.

What does this have to do with my post...?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,877
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1/1/2016 3:56:34 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 3:38:09 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:31:21 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:24:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
What is the origin of the myth?
"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.""New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, "of one substance with the Father." . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.""Encyclop"dia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

If the "Holy Spirit" (nevermind the caps and the distinct wording) were on the earth "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit" why should have Stephen seen Him in the vision? Stephen wouldn't have seen the three, since one of the three were on the earth....

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-"mile Boismard wrote in his book " l"aube du christianisme"La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity"The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

Not so my friend! The Hindu triad God of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva was around before even the first century.

What does this have to do with my post...?

You stated that the Trinitarian=triad God, dogma=teaching is a late fourth-century invention, you are wrong and in need of correction. Consider yourself corrected.

Vishnu the saviour and redeemer, is the Supreme personality of Godhead within Brahman who is the essential divine reality of the universe; the eternal spirit from which all being issues forth and to which all must return at the close of each physical manifestation. Shiva, the third person of the triad God, who is at times depicted in the form of a serpent, is the destroyer and co-redeemer, in that he only destroys the old in order to make way for the new.
The tongue, the sharp two edged sword that divides the spirit from the soul.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/1/2016 4:00:57 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 3:56:34 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:38:09 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:31:21 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:24:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
What is the origin of the myth?
"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.""New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, "of one substance with the Father." . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.""Encyclop"dia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

If the "Holy Spirit" (nevermind the caps and the distinct wording) were on the earth "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit" why should have Stephen seen Him in the vision? Stephen wouldn't have seen the three, since one of the three were on the earth....

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-"mile Boismard wrote in his book " l"aube du christianisme"La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity"The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

Not so my friend! The Hindu triad God of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva was around before even the first century.

What does this have to do with my post...?

You stated that the Trinitarian=triad God, dogma=teaching is a late fourth-century invention, you are wrong and in need of correction. Consider yourself corrected.

I think you need to get a grip, I'm not the creator of this thread.

Vishnu the saviour and redeemer, is the Supreme personality of Godhead within Brahman who is the essential divine reality of the universe; the eternal spirit from which all being issues forth and to which all must return at the close of each physical manifestation. Shiva, the third person of the triad God, who is at times depicted in the form of a serpent, is the destroyer and co-redeemer, in that he only destroys the old in order to make way for the new.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,877
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1/1/2016 5:59:02 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 4:00:57 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:56:34 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:38:09 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:31:21 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 3:24:17 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
What is the origin of the myth?
"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.""New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, "of one substance with the Father." . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.""Encyclop"dia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

If the "Holy Spirit" (nevermind the caps and the distinct wording) were on the earth "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit" why should have Stephen seen Him in the vision? Stephen wouldn't have seen the three, since one of the three were on the earth....

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-"mile Boismard wrote in his book " l"aube du christianisme"La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity"The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

Not so my friend! The Hindu triad God of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva was around before even the first century.

What does this have to do with my post...?

You stated that the Trinitarian=triad God, dogma=teaching is a late fourth-century invention, you are wrong and in need of correction. Consider yourself corrected.

I think you need to get a grip, I'm not the creator of this thread.

Vishnu the saviour and redeemer, is the Supreme personality of Godhead within Brahman who is the essential divine reality of the universe; the eternal spirit from which all being issues forth and to which all must return at the close of each physical manifestation. Shiva, the third person of the triad God, who is at times depicted in the form of a serpent, is the destroyer and co-redeemer, in that he only destroys the old in order to make way for the new.

Sorry about that, my boo boo.
The tongue, the sharp two edged sword that divides the spirit from the soul.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,877
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1/1/2016 6:04:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand."

No serious Bible student would believe anything that Stephen said.
The tongue, the sharp two edged sword that divides the spirit from the soul.
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/1/2016 9:06:16 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclop"dia Britannica states: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies."

In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages:

"Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.""Deuteronomy 6:4.

"You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.""Psalm 83:18.

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.""John 17:3.

"God is only one.""Galatians 3:20.


Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
Gentorev
Posts: 2,877
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1/1/2016 9:39:21 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 9:06:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclop"dia Britannica states: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies."

In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages:

"Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.""Deuteronomy 6:4.

"You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.""Psalm 83:18.

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.""John 17:3.

"God is only one.""Galatians 3:20.


Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

Again I will ask you, why would any serious bible student believe anything that Stephen said?
The tongue, the sharp two edged sword that divides the spirit from the soul.
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/1/2016 9:47:14 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 9:39:21 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:06:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclop"dia Britannica states: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies."

In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages:

"Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.""Deuteronomy 6:4.

"You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.""Psalm 83:18.

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.""John 17:3.

"God is only one.""Galatians 3:20.


Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

Again I will ask you, why would any serious bible student believe anything that Stephen said?

Please expand..

STEPHEN
(SteE7;phen) [from a root meaning "crown; wreath"].

The first Christian martyr. Though his name is Greek, he was one of the faithful Jewish remnant that accepted and followed the Messiah."Ac 7:2.

His Appointment to a Special Ministry. Stephen"s name first appears in the Bible record in connection with the appointment of men to special service responsibilities in the Christian congregation at Jerusalem. The account reads: "Now in these days, when the disciples were increasing, a murmuring arose on the part of the Greek-speaking Jews against the Hebrew-speaking Jews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution." The apostles saw the need for special attention to this matter, and they instructed the congregation: "So, brothers, search out for yourselves seven certified men from among you, full of spirit and wisdom, that we may appoint them over this necessary business." These qualified men were then selected and were appointed by the apostles."Ac 6:1-6.

Stephen therefore received an appointment to a ministry in a special way. He and the six others appointed over "this necessary business," the distribution of food supplies, may have already been older men, or overseers. These men were men "full of spirit and wisdom," which this particular emergency required, for it was not only the mechanical distribution of food supplies (possibly in the form of grains and other staples) but also a matter of administration. The duties may have called for these men to handle buying, keeping of records, and so forth. So, although such work, if on a lesser scale or under other circumstances, might have been such as would be handled by a di"aE7;ko"nos, a "ministerial servant," not by an overseer, or older man, the situation here was a sensitive one, difficulty and differences already existing in the congregation. Therefore it required men of notable judgment, discretion, understanding, and experience. Stephen"s defense before the Sanhedrin indicates his qualifications.

While taking care of these appointed ministerial duties, Stephen vigorously continued his Christian preaching. The chronicler Luke reports that "Stephen, full of graciousness and power," and "performing great portents and signs among the people," was bitterly opposed by Jews of the so-called Synagogue of the Freedmen and others from Asia and Africa. But Stephen spoke with such wisdom and spirit that they could not hold their own against him. As had been done in Jesus" case, enemies secretly secured false witnesses to accuse Stephen of blasphemy before the Sanhedrin."See FREEDMAN, FREEMAN.

His Defense Before the Sanhedrin. Stephen boldly recounted God"s dealings with the Hebrews from the time of their forefather Abraham, and he concluded with powerful accusations against his own audience of religious leaders. As they were cut to the heart by the truth of the accusations and began to gnash their teeth at him, Stephen was favored by God with a vision of God"s glory and of Jesus standing at God"s right hand. At his description of the vision, the assembly shouted and rushed upon him with one accord and threw him outside the city. Then, laying their garments at the feet of Saul, they stoned Stephen to death. Just before "falling asleep in death," Stephen prayed: "Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them." Certain reverent men came and gave him a burial and lamented his death. Great persecution then broke out against the Christians, scattering them (though the apostles remained in Jerusalem) and resulting in the spreading of the good news."Ac 6:8"8:2; 11:19; 22:20.

Stephen"s account delivered before the Sanhedrin includes a number of facts concerning Jewish history that are not found in the Hebrew Scriptures: Moses" Egyptian education, his age of 40 when he fled Egypt, the 40-year duration of his stay in Midian before returning to Egypt, and the role of angels in giving the Mosaic Law."Ac 7:22, 23, 30, 32, 38.

Stephen was the first to bear witness that he had seen, in a special vision, Jesus returned to heaven and at the right hand of God, as prophesied at Psalm 110:1."Ac 7:55, 56.
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
Gentorev
Posts: 2,877
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1/1/2016 11:28:51 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 9:47:14 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:39:21 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:06:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclop"dia Britannica states: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies."

In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages:

"Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.""Deuteronomy 6:4.

"You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.""Psalm 83:18.

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.""John 17:3.

"God is only one.""Galatians 3:20.


Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

Again I will ask you, why would any serious bible student believe anything that Stephen said?

His Defense Before the Sanhedrin. Stephen boldly recounted God"s dealings with the Hebrews from the time of their forefather Abraham, and he concluded with powerful accusations against his own audience of religious leaders. As they were cut to the heart by the truth of the accusations and began to gnash their teeth at him, Stephen was favored by God with a vision of God"s glory and of Jesus standing at God"s right hand. At his description of the vision, the assembly shouted and rushed upon him with one accord and threw him outside the city. Then, laying their garments at the feet of Saul, they stoned Stephen to death. Just before "falling asleep in death," Stephen prayed: "Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them." Certain reverent men came and gave him a burial and lamented his death. Great persecution then broke out against the Christians, scattering them (though the apostles remained in Jerusalem) and resulting in the spreading of the good news."Ac 6:8"8:2; 11:19; 22:20.

Stephen"s account delivered before the Sanhedrin includes a number of facts concerning Jewish history that are not found in the Hebrew Scriptures: Moses" Egyptian education, his age of 40 when he fled Egypt, the 40-year duration of his stay in Midian before returning to Egypt, and the role of angels in giving the Mosaic Law."Ac 7:22, 23, 30, 32, 38.

My question is, can we believe anything that Stephen said?

Stephen, was a newly converted Christian and would have been taught, that after Jesus had been given divine glory by our God, He had ascended to his Father and our Father, to his God and our God, where he, who is now incontestably divine and sits on the right hand of our God, invites his brothers, who like himself, are able to win the victory over the world, to sit with him in the throne of Godhead to all creation, visible and invisible, See Rev 3: 21. But did Stephen actually see anything? After reading everything that Stephen said, I cannot put faith in anything that he had to say.

Stephen, a Greek speaking Jew, who had been dragged before the Jewish authorities by Saul, in defence of his faith before being stoned to death, stated in acts 7: 4, that it was after Terah HAD DIED that his son Abraham obeyed God"s command and went to live in the land of Canaan. But the record in Genesis 11: 26; makes it plain that after Terah had turned 70 not 75 or 80, he became the father of Abraham, Nahor and Haran, and Gen 12: 4 reveals that Abraham was 75 when he travelled to Canaan, leaving his 145 year old father with his younger brother "Nahor," and Gen 11: 31-32; states that his father 'Terah' died in Haran at the age of 205, 60 years after his son Abraham had left him and travelled to the land of Canaan . Stephen's word's here are seen to contradict the Holy Scriptures.

Stephen also states in Acts 7: 15-17, that Abraham bought the grave site for Sarah in the land of Shechem from Hamor, whereas Genesis 23: shows that Abraham bought the grave site from Ephron the Hittite at Machpeleh east of Mamre, which is way to the south of Shechem. Again Stephen contradicts God's word.

It is also said by Stephen in the same verses, that Jacob and his sons were buried at Shechem, when in fact, it was only the remains of Joseph which was buried there, see Joshua 24: 32. Again Stephen"s words are false.

Jacob and his other sons were buried at Mamre and concerning the burial of Jacob, it is written in genesis 50: 13, "They carried the body of Jacob to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah east of Mamre in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite." Again Stephen"s words are untrue.

Again we see Stephens total lack of knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures when in Acts 7: 14; he states that the number of the family of Israel who entered Egypt was seventy five, whereas Genesis 46: 27; records the number as just seventy.

So all I can believe, is that Stephen said that he saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God, But I also believe that there are women, who have said they were raped by aliens. That doesn't mean that I believe what they said.

Stephen was neither a teacher nor a preacher, but was a newly converted Greek speaking Jew, and because the widows of this group were being neglected in the daily distribution of funds, he with six others were chosen to handle the finances, and although he was filled with the Holy Spirit, he did not speak the truth because he did not know the truth, for knowing the truth has nothing to do with the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

The world is filled with wonderful people who are a blessing to the communities in which they live, and who are ignorant to the truth of God"s word, (Blessed are they who do not see, and yet believe) these people are not filled with knowledge of the truth that is revealed in scripture, but they are filled with the power of the holy Spirit and the love and compassion for their fellow man.
The tongue, the sharp two edged sword that divides the spirit from the soul.
Gentorev
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1/2/2016 12:29:54 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Hi there Joshua, do you still believe the words of Stephen as recorded in the NT, or do you believe the word of God according to the OT?
The tongue, the sharp two edged sword that divides the spirit from the soul.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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1/2/2016 2:16:13 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 12:36:01 PM, desmac wrote:
Myth: god is a trinity.

Leave off the last two words, yoda, and you got it right.
+1
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Joshua_Verum
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1/3/2016 12:34:58 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)

6. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The trinity is a invention of Satan to try and take glory away from his enemy God.. Try and make him seem like a more distant unreachable being.. And create more confusion. When really it's quite simple..

Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and the holy spirit is god's power.. I promise you..
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
ethang5
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1/3/2016 5:00:57 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 12:34:58 PM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)

6. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The trinity is a invention of Satan to try and take glory away from his enemy God.. Try and make him seem like a more distant unreachable being.. And create more confusion. When really it's quite simple..

Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and the holy spirit is god's power.

If you are right, how come the people you claim have the truth peddled false prophesy for more than a 100 years over and over getting the return of Jesus wrong?

You claim they hold the truth, but all we saw for dozens of years was that they had no truth in them.

I promise you.

Here is another promise. You're in a cult.
Gentorev
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1/5/2016 9:59:03 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 12:34:58 PM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)

6. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The trinity is a invention of Satan to try and take glory away from his enemy God.. Try and make him seem like a more distant unreachable being.. And create more confusion. When really it's quite simple..

Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and the holy spirit is god's power.. I promise you..


Why did Stephen, who was filled with the Holy Spirit, lie concerning the truths revealed in the Holy Scriptures?

Hebrew 5: 7-10; "In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. But even though he was A son of God, (Not God"s Son, or THE son of God, but A son of God, check it out in the Appendix of Strong"s Concordance, or The King James, Amplified, or The Revised Standard translations." All Israelites are sons of God according to God"s word, see Psalms 82: 6; "You are gods," I said; "all of you are sons of the Most High.") he learned through suffering to be obedient, when he was made perfect (through his obedience,) he could then be used as the host body through which our God and Saviour, [The Lesser Jahweh who is the Son of Man] could then reveal himself, through the life, the miracles and the words that would be seen and heard through his obedient servant and earthy image, who did, nor spoke one word on his own authority, other than that which he was commanded by the Lord our saviour.) Jesus, the one who God had prepared for his heavenly anointed one, who then became the source through whom salvation could be gained from our Lord God and saviour, who raised Jesus from death and will raise all, who are united to him also.

Hebrew 5: 9-10; "It was after he had been made perfect through suffering, that God declared him to be high priest, in the priestly order of Melchizedek."

Hebrew 5: 5-6; Christ did not take upon himself the honour of being a high priest. Instead God said to him, [As he rose from the baptismal water and was filled with the spirit of our Lord as the heavenly voice was heard to say,"You are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, TODAY I have become your Father." Or rather, "Today I have begotten thee." [See the more ancient authorities of Luke 3: 22;] He also said in another place, "You will be a priest forever in the priestly order of Melchizedek."

In Luke 3: 22; (In place of "Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.") The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, "This day I have begotten thee," vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, "This is my son in whom I am well pleased." Whereas the original variant was, "Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee."

Deuteronomy 18: 18; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord," verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had prophesied that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." these were the words that our Lord commanded his servant Jesus to speak in his name
The tongue, the sharp two edged sword that divides the spirit from the soul.
graceofgod
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1/5/2016 11:18:45 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 12:22:11 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
What is the origin of the myth?
"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation "one God in three Persons" was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.""New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, "of one substance with the Father." . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.""Encyclop"dia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?
"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God"s right hand. "Look! I can see heaven thrown open," he said, "and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God."""Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God"s active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God"s right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-"mile Boismard wrote in his book " l"aube du christianisme"La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity"The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

i am the alpha and omega, the first and the last the one who died and rose again...

hmm it seems that if God and Jesus are not one in the same God died and rose again...that's odd...

funny how the jw's scream about a myth and some how conclude Jesus was michael..lol