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are jw's being deceptive ??

graceofgod
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1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/1/2016 6:08:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???

THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah"s rulership and fighting God"s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name""Who Is Like God?" But who is Michael?

At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.

Archangel. God"s Word refers to Michael "the archangel." (Jude 9) This term means "chief angel." Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term "archangel" occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel"s voice." Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels." (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and "his angels" and Jesus and "his angels." (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God"s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven"one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus"it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

https://www.jw.org...
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/1/2016 10:15:50 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 6:08:02 PM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???

THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah"s rulership and fighting God"s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name""Who Is Like God?" But who is Michael?

At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.

Archangel. God"s Word refers to Michael "the archangel." (Jude 9) This term means "chief angel." Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term "archangel" occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel"s voice." Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels." (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and "his angels" and Jesus and "his angels." (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God"s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven"one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus"it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

https://www.jw.org...

all very interesting but the link by scripture of michael being Jesus just doesn't happen..

besides that the question was do the jw's openly declare that they mean michael when they talk about jesus??
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/1/2016 11:19:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???

Some time back as far as the 70's, they used to go about telling everyone who would listen they were the hundred and forty-four thousand mentioned in the book of revelations. That is truly a intentional deception, but by who as in the leadership or membership or both who knows.

It seems possible they go after the rejected and disenfranchised. Which maybe why you see them here so much. I mean many people especially these days can see the churches more and more are becoming full of it, and full of themselves, it make the true believer or maybe a true seeker, disenchanted. So I believe they go marketing for new members in such places were one can find such.

And yes their claim to michael and the publisher of the books they call the bible to verify that is deliberate deception. They are aware of documents that have been gleaned over for consistency for thousand of years by experts are much more reliable then their changes to accommodate what they want to believe.

Most denominations that want to believe what they want, just document their own theology and try to ignore what the Bible says, and use scripture to justify their thinking.
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/1/2016 11:59:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???

I don't think that they are being deceptive. They are believing some deceptive teachings instead of investigating the truth for themselves. I had a conversation with one woman who is a Jehovah's witness who attempted to explain away the deity of Christ, which removes the system from being Christian. I disagree wholeheartedly with the religions "little gods" stance.

It's very easy these days to search a matter out. There are all kinds of Internet bible programs along with Hebrew and Greek translations.
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/2/2016 9:24:30 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

The nasty JW sect doesn't know the meaning of truth and accuracy! Why do they suppose that when they make nuisances of themselves by turning up uninvited at people's homes, most don't give them the time of day?
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/2/2016 9:57:50 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 9:24:30 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

The nasty JW sect doesn't know the meaning of truth and accuracy! Why do they suppose that when they make nuisances of themselves by turning up uninvited at people's homes, most don't give them the time of day?

The Bible states otherwise ; )
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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1/2/2016 10:14:31 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
They lack the intelligence to be deceptive, they just believe lies and can't understand why nobody else believes them, due of course to that aforementioned lack intelligence.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/2/2016 10:20:14 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 9:57:50 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:24:30 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

The nasty JW sect doesn't know the meaning of truth and accuracy! Why do they suppose that when they make nuisances of themselves by turning up uninvited at people's homes, most don't give them the time of day?

The Bible states otherwise ; )

The Bible is open to many interpretations, some crazier than others like the ones to which the JWs subscribe.
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/2/2016 10:33:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 10:20:14 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:57:50 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:24:30 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

The nasty JW sect doesn't know the meaning of truth and accuracy! Why do they suppose that when they make nuisances of themselves by turning up uninvited at people's homes, most don't give them the time of day?

The Bible states otherwise ; )

The Bible is open to many interpretations, some crazier than others like the ones to which the JWs subscribe.

The points I raised about identifying the true religion seem quite solid lol.. Not much interpretation to be done.. I understand why people go door to door spreading news of a loving God who brought them haziness and hope.. What I don't understand is people who sit on forums all day acting angry and bitter towards other peoples beliefs.. Perhaps a hobby would suit you. ; )
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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1/2/2016 10:44:07 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 10:33:32 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:20:14 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:57:50 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:24:30 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

The nasty JW sect doesn't know the meaning of truth and accuracy! Why do they suppose that when they make nuisances of themselves by turning up uninvited at people's homes, most don't give them the time of day?

The Bible states otherwise ; )

The Bible is open to many interpretations, some crazier than others like the ones to which the JWs subscribe.

The points I raised about identifying the true religion seem quite solid lol.. Not much interpretation to be done.. I understand why people go door to door spreading news of a loving God who brought them haziness and hope.. What I don't understand is people who sit on forums all day acting angry and bitter towards other peoples beliefs.. Perhaps a hobby would suit you. ; )

Laughing at and mocking your silly little beliefs has nothing to do with anger, it's just entertainment.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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1/2/2016 10:45:54 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

Well, that alone leaves the BotchTower of Brooklyn out. They've made dozens of predictions - hundreds if one counts variations on them - and have never gotten one right. One would think that they'd accidentally get at least close: even a blind hog roots out an acorn occasionally.

I think their Governing Body, for reasons best known to them, has against opened up the doors for new "anointed" people. Remember, the BotchTower closed those doors back in 1935 and put up a sign, "No New Anointed." Now that they've opened 'em back up, shoot, lots of Witnesses decided that they wanted something better than life here on earth petting tigers on the head and watching lambs and lions grazing together out in the pasture. Now they've got "anointed" folks running out of every hole!

Anyway, whether 1874, 1878, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1926, 1935 ... and on and on ... they've never gotten ONE prophetic prediction right. For all the scare tactics and big talk, the amount that ever materialized as they said would is ... zero.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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1/2/2016 10:47:31 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 10:14:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
They lack the intelligence to be deceptive, they just believe lies and can't understand why nobody else believes them, due of course to that aforementioned lack intelligence.

BINGO. Deception implies "deliberateness" and "with forethought".

"Forethought" implies "thinking".

I think I see where this is headed.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/2/2016 10:47:36 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 10:44:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:33:32 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:20:14 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:57:50 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:24:30 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

The nasty JW sect doesn't know the meaning of truth and accuracy! Why do they suppose that when they make nuisances of themselves by turning up uninvited at people's homes, most don't give them the time of day?

The Bible states otherwise ; )

The Bible is open to many interpretations, some crazier than others like the ones to which the JWs subscribe.

The points I raised about identifying the true religion seem quite solid lol.. Not much interpretation to be done.. I understand why people go door to door spreading news of a loving God who brought them haziness and hope.. What I don't understand is people who sit on forums all day acting angry and bitter towards other peoples beliefs.. Perhaps a hobby would suit you. ; )

Laughing at and mocking your silly little beliefs has nothing to do with anger, it's just entertainment.

2 Corinthians 4:4

among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

2 Timothy 3:1-5

1. But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3. having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4. betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5. having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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1/2/2016 11:33:11 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 10:47:36 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:44:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:33:32 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:20:14 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:57:50 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:24:30 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

The nasty JW sect doesn't know the meaning of truth and accuracy! Why do they suppose that when they make nuisances of themselves by turning up uninvited at people's homes, most don't give them the time of day?

The Bible states otherwise ; )

The Bible is open to many interpretations, some crazier than others like the ones to which the JWs subscribe.

The points I raised about identifying the true religion seem quite solid lol.. Not much interpretation to be done.. I understand why people go door to door spreading news of a loving God who brought them haziness and hope.. What I don't understand is people who sit on forums all day acting angry and bitter towards other peoples beliefs.. Perhaps a hobby would suit you. ; )

Laughing at and mocking your silly little beliefs has nothing to do with anger, it's just entertainment.

2 Corinthians 4:4

among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

2 Timothy 3:1-5

1. But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3. having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4. betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5. having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
Do you see now why we laugh at you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/2/2016 11:48:43 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 11:33:11 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:47:36 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:44:07 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:33:32 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 10:20:14 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:57:50 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:24:30 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

The nasty JW sect doesn't know the meaning of truth and accuracy! Why do they suppose that when they make nuisances of themselves by turning up uninvited at people's homes, most don't give them the time of day?

The Bible states otherwise ; )

The Bible is open to many interpretations, some crazier than others like the ones to which the JWs subscribe.

The points I raised about identifying the true religion seem quite solid lol.. Not much interpretation to be done.. I understand why people go door to door spreading news of a loving God who brought them haziness and hope.. What I don't understand is people who sit on forums all day acting angry and bitter towards other peoples beliefs.. Perhaps a hobby would suit you. ; )

Laughing at and mocking your silly little beliefs has nothing to do with anger, it's just entertainment.

2 Corinthians 4:4

among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

2 Timothy 3:1-5

1. But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3. having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4. betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5. having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
Do you see now why we laugh at you?

Awaiting logical, debatable objection to comment posted...
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/2/2016 11:50:34 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
We must try our best to help out our fellow humans and to love God as Jesus commanded.

We need to try and avoid harmful practices such as: Sexual immorality, Greed, Arrogance, Hatred, Selfishness, Anger, Jealousy etc etc

We must try and promote values of righteousness including: Love, Honour, Dignity, Loyalty, Humility, Integrity, and most importantly help out your fellow humans.
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,211
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1/2/2016 12:03:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 11:50:34 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:


We need to try and avoid harmful practices such as: Sexual immorality,
Define sexual immorality and from whence your morality comes?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/2/2016 10:30:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 11:59:11 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???

I don't think that they are being deceptive. They are believing some deceptive teachings instead of investigating the truth for themselves. I had a conversation with one woman who is a Jehovah's witness who attempted to explain away the deity of Christ, which removes the system from being Christian. I disagree wholeheartedly with the religions "little gods" stance.

It's very easy these days to search a matter out. There are all kinds of Internet bible programs along with Hebrew and Greek translations.

but they know when they talk about Jesus, anyone who hears thinks of Jesus the son of God, they do not openly say they believe Jesus is the angel michael, I believe they don't because it would lose them potential cult members..
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/2/2016 10:35:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 9:14:16 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
True religion teaches the truth that is based on the Bible, not on human philosophies. (John 4:24; 17:17)

True religion helps people to know God, including teaching them his name, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 42:8; John 17:3, 6)

True religion highlights Jesus Christ as the one through whom God grants salvation.
(Acts 4:10, 12)

True religion focuses on God's Kingdom as mankind's only hope. Its members actively tell others about that Kingdom. (Matthew 10:7; 24:14)

True religion promotes unselfish love. (John 13:35

True religion has no paid clergy, and it does not give high-sounding religious titles to any of its members. (Matthew 23:8-12; 1 Peter 5:2, 3)

True religion is a way of life, not just a ritual or a formality. Its members adhere to the Bible's high moral standards in all aspects of life. (Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 John 3:18)

True religion is completely neutral in political affairs. (John 17:16; 18:36)

Those who practice true religion will be in the minority. (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Members of the true religion are often looked down on, ridiculed, and persecuted for doing God's will. (Matthew 5:10-12.)

True Religion = Jehovah"s Witnesses

Please visit: https://www.jw.org... for accurate teachings on God, Jesus and Life..

yet the jw's have been shown on numerous occasions to teach and practice errors and deceit, the wrong world ending dates, the changing of their own writings, beth sarim, teach something means one thing one year then another the next year, then back to the first guess the next year...

none of that rings of any truth what so ever...

again all that apart the jw's believing that michael is Jesus, apart from being biblically incorrect, is not told to the potential cult members instead they talk about Jesus as if it is from the biblal tandpoint which it is not, I think they do it to deliberately deceive..
Joshua_Verum
Posts: 55
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1/3/2016 9:29:15 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Have Jehovah"s Witnesses Changed the Bible to Fit Their Beliefs?

No, we haven"t. On the contrary, when we have discovered that our beliefs were not completely in line with the Bible, we have changed our beliefs.

Long before we started"producing the"New World Translation"of the Holy Scriptures"in 1950, we examined the Bible. We used whatever translation was available and formed our beliefs accordingly. Consider a few examples of long-standing beliefs of Jehovah"s Witnesses, and decide for yourself whether they match what the Bible really teaches.

1. What we believe: God is not a Trinity."The July"1882 issue ofZion"s Watch Tower"said: "Our readers are aware that while we believe in Jehovah and Jesus, and the holy Spirit, we reject as totally unscriptural, the teaching that these are"three"Gods in"one person"or, as some put it, one God in three persons."R32;What the Bible says:""Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 6:4,"The Holy Bible,"by Robert Young) "There is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (1"Corinthians 8:6, American Bible Union Version) Jesus himself stated: "The Father is greater than I." (John 14:28,Douay-Rheims Version)

2. What we believe: There is no eternal torment in a fiery hell.Quoting from"Romans 6:23"in the"King"James Version, Zion"s Watch Tower"entitled its issue of June"1882 "The Wages of Sin Is Death," stating: "How clear and simple is this statement. How strange it is that so many who profess to receive the Bible as the Word of God persist in contradicting this positive statement, and affirm that they believe, and that the Bible teaches, that the wages of sin is"everlasting life in torment."R32;What the Bible says:""The soul that sinneth, it shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4,"20,"King"James Version) The final punishment for those who oppose God is, not eternal torment, but "everlasting destruction." (2"Thessalonians 1:9,"King"James Version)

3. What we believe: God"s Kingdom is a real government, not just a condition of the heart."Regarding God"s Kingdom, the December"1881 issue of"Zion"s Watch Tower"said: "The setting up of this kingdom will, of course, involve the overthrow of all the kingdoms of earth."R32;What the Bible says:""In the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." (Daniel 2:44"King"James Version.)

Do Jehovah"s Witnesses depend on the"New World Translation"to support their beliefs?

No, for we continue to use many translations of the Bible in our witnessing work. In fact, while we provide a copy of the"New World Translation"at no charge"as part of our free Bible study program, we are also happy to study with those who prefer to use other translations.
(Matthew 24:14:) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The Kingdom message is reaching all corners of the globe. In 2010 alone, Jehovah"s Witnesses spent over 1.6 billion hours proclaiming this good news in 236 lands. Over the past decade, they have produced and distributed more than 20 billion items of literature.

https://www.jw.org...
ethang5
Posts: 4,088
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1/3/2016 5:14:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 9:29:15 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
Have Jehovah"s Witnesses Changed the Bible to Fit Their Beliefs?

No, we haven"t. On the contrary, when we have discovered that our beliefs were not completely in line with the Bible, we have changed our beliefs.

This is a lie and an example of the deception being charged here.

I had a conversation with MCB a while back and h was forced to admit that the JW's did change scripture. His justification?

They were "correcting" scripture!!!! When scripture didn't match their belief system, they changed it, and saw that as a "correction".
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/3/2016 7:02:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 9:29:15 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
Have Jehovah"s Witnesses Changed the Bible to Fit Their Beliefs?

No, we haven"t. On the contrary, when we have discovered that our beliefs were not completely in line with the Bible, we have changed our beliefs.

Long before we started"producing the"New World Translation"of the Holy Scriptures"in 1950, we examined the Bible. We used whatever translation was available and formed our beliefs accordingly. Consider a few examples of long-standing beliefs of Jehovah"s Witnesses, and decide for yourself whether they match what the Bible really teaches.

1. What we believe: God is not a Trinity."The July"1882 issue ofZion"s Watch Tower"said: "Our readers are aware that while we believe in Jehovah and Jesus, and the holy Spirit, we reject as totally unscriptural, the teaching that these are"three"Gods in"one person"or, as some put it, one God in three persons."R32;What the Bible says:""Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 6:4,"The Holy Bible,"by Robert Young) "There is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (1"Corinthians 8:6, American Bible Union Version) Jesus himself stated: "The Father is greater than I." (John 14:28,Douay-Rheims Version)

2. What we believe: There is no eternal torment in a fiery hell.Quoting from"Romans 6:23"in the"King"James Version, Zion"s Watch Tower"entitled its issue of June"1882 "The Wages of Sin Is Death," stating: "How clear and simple is this statement. How strange it is that so many who profess to receive the Bible as the Word of God persist in contradicting this positive statement, and affirm that they believe, and that the Bible teaches, that the wages of sin is"everlasting life in torment."R32;What the Bible says:""The soul that sinneth, it shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4,"20,"King"James Version) The final punishment for those who oppose God is, not eternal torment, but "everlasting destruction." (2"Thessalonians 1:9,"King"James Version)

3. What we believe: God"s Kingdom is a real government, not just a condition of the heart."Regarding God"s Kingdom, the December"1881 issue of"Zion"s Watch Tower"said: "The setting up of this kingdom will, of course, involve the overthrow of all the kingdoms of earth."R32;What the Bible says:""In the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." (Daniel 2:44"King"James Version.)

Do Jehovah"s Witnesses depend on the"New World Translation"to support their beliefs?

No, for we continue to use many translations of the Bible in our witnessing work. In fact, while we provide a copy of the"New World Translation"at no charge"as part of our free Bible study program, we are also happy to study with those who prefer to use other translations.

all you have said is a deception..

there are a catalogue of changes made by the nwt and changes made to the nwt from its first writing...showing error and deception...

no the jw's only ever change their writings to conform with their doctrines not the other way and then set about showing any original errors...

Beth Sarim is an example...

the nwt is the cult members handbook and is used in preference..

sure you can show from a real bible names like Jesus and the Christ but until they realise these are cult terms for michael the angel the potential cult member is left deceived...
tstor
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1/4/2016 12:48:54 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 5:14:28 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:29:15 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
Have Jehovah"s Witnesses Changed the Bible to Fit Their Beliefs?

No, we haven"t. On the contrary, when we have discovered that our beliefs were not completely in line with the Bible, we have changed our beliefs.

This is a lie and an example of the deception being charged here.

I had a conversation with MCB a while back and h was forced to admit that the JW's did change scripture. His justification?

They were "correcting" scripture!!!! When scripture didn't match their belief system, they changed it, and saw that as a "correction".
Give an example of a verse that was inappropriately translated in the NWT.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
ethang5
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1/5/2016 12:11:08 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 12:48:54 AM, tstor wrote:
At 1/3/2016 5:14:28 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:29:15 AM, Joshua_Verum wrote:
Have Jehovah"s Witnesses Changed the Bible to Fit Their Beliefs?

No, we haven"t. On the contrary, when we have discovered that our beliefs were not completely in line with the Bible, we have changed our beliefs.

This is a lie and an example of the deception being charged here.

I had a conversation with MCB a while back and h was forced to admit that the JW's did change scripture. His justification?

They were "correcting" scripture!!!! When scripture didn't match their belief system, they changed it, and saw that as a "correction".
Give an example of a verse that was inappropriately translated in the NWT.

That would be a little too simplistic JV. Your crimes are far more than just false interpretations. You remove whole verses, insert verses which contradict others, and interpret others with doctrines not found in scripture.

So rather than do dueling interpretations with you, just explain to us why these verses should not apply to JWs,

Deut 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


JW have made dozens false prophesies, claiming that they were speaking the word of God, gotten from the lips of Jehovah Himself. Only to have to backtrack and admit the prophesy was false and did not come about.

Do you not see that JW's fail the Bible standard for true prophets? And have been failing since their inception?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/5/2016 1:56:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???

Not in the least, since the being who was originally known as Michael, the mighty Archangel, Jehovah's only begotten son (John 1:14) was originally given the title The Word, since he became Jehovah's spokesman since after Adam's fall God could not deal with us directly.

It is that one who was sent to earth, by his father ,to occupy the body of JEsus and become the Christ.

What we are not told is at what stage Michael became Jesus.

Was The Word AKA Michael's spirit implanted in Jesus from the beginning, personally I doubt it, but One thing is certain, an undeveloped, immature human brain could not contain all the information that made God's only begotten son what he was we do not know for sure. All that information was not, in computer terms , downloaded into the mind of Jesus and that is the reason that he needed time in the wilderness to assimilate it all.

Of course that is also why Satan made his second concerted "attack' on Jesus then, knowing he would be vulnerable like at no time later.

Personally I believe that Jesus baptism is the point where not only the personality and memories into Jesus body but his spirit also, but I have to admit that only Jehovah knows the details, and they do't matter.

All that matters is that Jehovah's only begotten son, Michael, AKA the word, was sent to earth to inhabit Jesus' body, and thus become the promised seed, the Messiah, the Christ. Thus exchanging his role as the Word for his role as the Messiah, the Christ.

To deny that Michael, that powerful Archangel, and the one above all the Angels, is God's only begotten son, and now the Christ is literally to deny the Christ and promote a false Christ.

To accept the Christ and his sacrifice as a ransom for your eternal life, you have to accept the truth of who Jehovah, and his only begotten son really are. John 17:3.

Only then can you call on Jehovah for salvation Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13 provided through the sacrifice of his only begotten son.
MadCornishBiker
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1/5/2016 2:03:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 10:14:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
They lack the intelligence to be deceptive, they just believe lies and can't understand why nobody else believes them, due of course to that aforementioned lack intelligence.

Oh we know why so few believe us, Christ was very careful to explain that, and Paul repeated the lesson in slightly different form.

The reason is contained in these two scripture:

Matthew 13:15American Standard Version (ASV)

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed; Lest haply they should perceive with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should turn again, And I should heal them.

The fact that you cannot hear or see the truth is simply because you have closed off your ears eyes and heart to it.

And

2 Corinthians 4:3-4American Standard Version (ASV)

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish: 4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.

Satan has given you a thousand excuses not to listen and you have fallen for at least some of them.

He especially likes to use human arrogance to encourage people to think they are smarter than such as we who know better.

Not because we are better, the reverse is true in fact 1 Corinthians 2:12-16.
kjw47
Posts: 1,624
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1/5/2016 2:26:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???

No they are not-- the deception of who Jesus is entered centuries ago by the great apostasy. misleading nearly 2 billion humans today. Mostly because they refuse to look at reality because they might be wrong. God always was a single being God. And that is undeniable fact.
DanneJeRusse
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1/5/2016 3:18:32 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/5/2016 2:26:16 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 1/1/2016 5:19:52 PM, graceofgod wrote:
when they talk to most people about Jesus and to them they mean michael are they being deliberately deceitful???



No they are not-- the deception of who Jesus is entered centuries ago by the great apostasy. misleading nearly 2 billion humans today. Mostly because they refuse to look at reality because they might be wrong. God always was a single being God. And that is undeniable fact.

Speaking of looking at reality because they might be wrong, facts are something common to all people on the planet, however only a small minority of people claim God is an undeniable fact, hence it isn't a fact at all or else we would all know and understand it. That's reality.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth