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The Existence of God

bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/1/2016 10:01:15 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

What evidence? And how is it that you know everything there is to know? Have you experienced everything there is to experience, and have you received every revelation there is? And if not, then how is it that your judgement of what is good for you superior to any other judgement known or even unknown?
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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1/1/2016 10:05:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 10:01:15 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

What evidence? And how is it that you know everything there is to know? Have you experienced everything there is to experience, and have you received every revelation there is? And if not, then how is it that your judgement of what is good for you superior to any other judgement known or even unknown?

Wholly irrelevant.

I can deny the existence of a deity since you cannot affirm the existence of one. You would have to be arguing a negative, which is in itself fallacious.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,866
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1/2/2016 1:18:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.
I see this as a sign of projecting onto something else your own inner feelings about yourself.
Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.
This is the epitome of over compensating. You haven't, and no human has, surveyed the entire possible enviroments where evidence might exist. This is like making the argument that studying and documenting only 2% of available places where the fossil record would be expected to be found is sufficient to argue a positive proof for evolution. (Btw, that was an actual reference to what iis fact) Do you agree 2% is an acceptable amount of knowledge to make a valid claim? No colleges do. No schools anywhere grade a person as passing the "what do you know about the subject" criteria if they merely demonstrated knowledge of 2% of the information.
Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.
Again, projecting.
The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.
This is of course completely false.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/2/2016 2:49:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 10:05:06 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 1/1/2016 10:01:15 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

What evidence? And how is it that you know everything there is to know? Have you experienced everything there is to experience, and have you received every revelation there is? And if not, then how is it that your judgement of what is good for you superior to any other judgement known or even unknown?

Wholly irrelevant.

I can deny the existence of a deity since you cannot affirm the existence of one. You would have to be arguing a negative, which is in itself fallacious.

No, that is the same as saying you know something you don"t know, whereas the honest or correct position is, you have no knowledge of the existence of God, because you don"t know, nor have experienced, the like. But that isn"t verification that no one else knows, or has experienced the Presence of God. Your limited knowledge or better said in this case the lack of it, isn"t proof of anything to not be so.

People don"t prove there is a God, God reveals to whomever that He is. Which would be between you and Him.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/3/2016 5:14:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

I presume you are defining God as the invisible supernatural creator of the universe?
If so, how does a belief or faith in his existence relate to a self-esteem issue?

If a child believes in Santa or the Tooth fairy for example, is that related to a self esteem issue or rather related to their own gullibility, ignorance and the fantasies that adults encourage them to believe?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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1/3/2016 11:48:27 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.

Define soon.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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1/3/2016 12:07:39 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 11:48:27 AM, desmac wrote:
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.

Define soon.

At the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath, which is the Day of the Lord. Acts 17: 31; "For he has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/3/2016 5:10:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 12:07:39 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:48:27 AM, desmac wrote:
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.

Define soon.

At the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath, which is the Day of the Lord. Acts 17: 31; "For he has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."

I must be a little slow. Can you tell me the date of the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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1/3/2016 9:44:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 5:10:56 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 12:07:39 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:48:27 AM, desmac wrote:
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.

Define soon.

At the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath, which is the Day of the Lord. Acts 17: 31; "For he has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."

I must be a little slow. Can you tell me the date of the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath?

I believe that you were once a Christian, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were, it is obvious that you never did really study your bible, other wise you would know that the Lord said through his obedient servant, the man Jesus, that no one knows that exact time.

BUT WE DO KNOW THAT A THOUSAND YEARS TO THE LORD IS AS ONE DAY. Adam was told that on the day he ate of the forbidden fruit, on that day he would die, which he did. he died at the age of 930 70 years before the close of that one thousand year day. At the close of the sixth day. the great Sabbath begins, of which the weekly Sabbath was but a shadow of this reality, which is "THE DAY OF THE LORD" The one thousand years rule of the Lord.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/3/2016 9:50:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 9:44:02 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 5:10:56 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 12:07:39 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:48:27 AM, desmac wrote:
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.

Define soon.

At the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath, which is the Day of the Lord. Acts 17: 31; "For he has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."

I must be a little slow. Can you tell me the date of the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath?

I believe that you were once a Christian, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were, it is obvious that you never did really study your bible, other wise you would know that the Lord said through his obedient servant, the man Jesus, that no one knows that exact time.

Thank you for clarifying, as this was Desmac's point of asking you to define "soon". Definition: "No one knows".

And BTW, no, I never studied the bible. Although I believed in Christ, my lack of devotion to his teachings makes me find the word "believer" to be a more accurate description of my pre-atheist position.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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1/3/2016 10:12:05 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 9:50:43 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:44:02 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 5:10:56 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 12:07:39 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:48:27 AM, desmac wrote:
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.

Define soon.

At the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath, which is the Day of the Lord. Acts 17: 31; "For he has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."

I must be a little slow. Can you tell me the date of the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath?

I believe that you were once a Christian, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were, it is obvious that you never did really study your bible, other wise you would know that the Lord said through his obedient servant, the man Jesus, that no one knows that exact time.

Thank you for clarifying, as this was Desmac's point of asking you to define "soon". Definition: "No one knows".

And BTW, no, I never studied the bible. Although I believed in Christ, my lack of devotion to his teachings makes me find the word "believer" to be a more accurate description of my pre-atheist position.

So you abandoned Christ in who you once believed without studying the truths attributed to him. What? Did one of the godless religion get to you and convert you to Atheism?

Well mate, the wife's waiting to go to town, catch you all later.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/3/2016 10:43:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 10:12:05 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:50:43 PM, Double_R wrote:
And BTW, no, I never studied the bible. Although I believed in Christ, my lack of devotion to his teachings makes me find the word "believer" to be a more accurate description of my pre-atheist position.

So you abandoned Christ in who you once believed without studying the truths attributed to him. What? Did one of the godless religion get to you and convert you to Atheism?

I believed in Christ because that is what mommy and daddy taught me to believe. Once I started reading various debates on the existence of God here on DDO and on various other sites I started to realize that there was no basis to believe that the bible is the word of God in the first place, so there was no reason to waste any time studying it.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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1/3/2016 10:48:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 10:43:26 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:12:05 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:50:43 PM, Double_R wrote:
And BTW, no, I never studied the bible. Although I believed in Christ, my lack of devotion to his teachings makes me find the word "believer" to be a more accurate description of my pre-atheist position.

So you abandoned Christ in who you once believed without studying the truths attributed to him. What? Did one of the godless religion get to you and convert you to Atheism?

I believed in Christ because that is what mommy and daddy taught me to believe. Once I started reading various debates on the existence of God here on DDO and on various other sites I started to realize that there was no basis to believe that the bible is the word of God in the first place, so there was no reason to waste any time studying it.

So you abandoned the God as revealed in the scriptures on the words of people such as yourself who have never seriously studied the Good Book
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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1/3/2016 10:49:31 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/2/2016 2:49:44 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 1/1/2016 10:05:06 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 1/1/2016 10:01:15 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

What evidence? And how is it that you know everything there is to know? Have you experienced everything there is to experience, and have you received every revelation there is? And if not, then how is it that your judgement of what is good for you superior to any other judgement known or even unknown?

Wholly irrelevant.

I can deny the existence of a deity since you cannot affirm the existence of one. You would have to be arguing a negative, which is in itself fallacious.

No, that is the same as saying you know something you don"t know, whereas the honest or correct position is, you have no knowledge of the existence of God, because you don"t know, nor have experienced, the like. But that isn"t verification that no one else knows, or has experienced the Presence of God. Your limited knowledge or better said in this case the lack of it, isn"t proof of anything to not be so.

People don"t prove there is a God, God reveals to whomever that He is. Which would be between you and Him.

has any god revealed itself to you? there are ways to test that claim, depending on which god it was
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/4/2016 3:23:54 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 10:48:56 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:43:26 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:12:05 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:50:43 PM, Double_R wrote:
And BTW, no, I never studied the bible. Although I believed in Christ, my lack of devotion to his teachings makes me find the word "believer" to be a more accurate description of my pre-atheist position.

So you abandoned Christ in who you once believed without studying the truths attributed to him. What? Did one of the godless religion get to you and convert you to Atheism?

I believed in Christ because that is what mommy and daddy taught me to believe. Once I started reading various debates on the existence of God here on DDO and on various other sites I started to realize that there was no basis to believe that the bible is the word of God in the first place, so there was no reason to waste any time studying it.

So you abandoned the God as revealed in the scriptures on the words of people such as yourself who have never seriously studied the Good Book

No. I abandoned the fantasy of God as claimed in a book written by men such as myself, after developing my critical thinking abilities and applying them.
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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1/4/2016 4:25:58 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.
I've got this bridge I'm looking to sell, give me a call.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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1/4/2016 4:28:45 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 9:44:02 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 5:10:56 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 12:07:39 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:48:27 AM, desmac wrote:
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.

Define soon.

At the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath, which is the Day of the Lord. Acts 17: 31; "For he has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."

I must be a little slow. Can you tell me the date of the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath?

I believe that you were once a Christian, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were, it is obvious that you never did really study your bible, other wise you would know that the Lord said through his obedient servant, the man Jesus, that no one knows that exact time.

BUT WE DO KNOW THAT A THOUSAND YEARS TO THE LORD IS AS ONE DAY. Adam was told that on the day he ate of the forbidden fruit, on that day he would die, which he did. he died at the age of 930 70 years before the close of that one thousand year day. At the close of the sixth day. the great Sabbath begins, of which the weekly Sabbath was but a shadow of this reality, which is "THE DAY OF THE LORD" The one thousand years rule of the Lord.
That bridge is still available and for just a little more I'll throw in the tallest mountain in the world.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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1/4/2016 4:33:26 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 10:48:56 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:43:26 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:12:05 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:50:43 PM, Double_R wrote:
And BTW, no, I never studied the bible. Although I believed in Christ, my lack of devotion to his teachings makes me find the word "believer" to be a more accurate description of my pre-atheist position.

So you abandoned Christ in who you once believed without studying the truths attributed to him. What? Did one of the godless religion get to you and convert you to Atheism?

I believed in Christ because that is what mommy and daddy taught me to believe. Once I started reading various debates on the existence of God here on DDO and on various other sites I started to realize that there was no basis to believe that the bible is the word of God in the first place, so there was no reason to waste any time studying it.

So you abandoned the God as revealed in the scriptures on the words of people such as yourself who have never seriously studied the Good Book
Not much study needed.
Plants don't grow in a 0degk vacuum.
Page one.
The rest must be crap as well.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Casten
Posts: 391
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1/4/2016 4:52:57 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Oh, I don't know. You'll find theists who say, "God put a head on my shoulders and a brain in that head. Why shouldn't I use it to think for myself?" It's not necessarily a self-esteem issue or a psychological weakness.

Granted, these are almost always theists who have chosen not to embrace the Bible literally or wholesale.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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1/4/2016 10:16:37 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 4:25:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.
I've got this bridge I'm looking to sell, give me a call.

Nah mate, I might be 74 but I've still got a good set of teeth, besides, why would I buy your bridge after seeing the dribble that come out of your mouth.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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1/4/2016 10:29:13 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 4:28:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:44:02 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 5:10:56 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 12:07:39 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 11:48:27 AM, desmac wrote:
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/1/2016 9:52:25 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
I see the existence of God to be less a faith based phenomenon but rather a self-esteem issue.

Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.

Nonetheless, I find belief in a deity to be a sign of psychological weakness - of a man being afraid to follow his own mind and self-responsibility.

The absence of proof has gone on for centuries, and every argument for the existence of God has been refuted and is improper, but people still go on because they want to believe. I regard this as evil, to place your desires and emotions over logic and reason and above the evidence of what your mind knows.

There was absolutely no proof thousands of years ago that all visible matter was created from invisible particles and yet Atomism was once an ancient theory of Democritus, Epicurus and Lucretius, according to which simple, indivisible, and indestructible atoms, were the basic components of the entire universe.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.

But don't you worry too much my friend, because according to the Good Book, a God is soon to sit on his throne in Jerusalem and rule the whole world with justice.

Define soon.

At the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath, which is the Day of the Lord. Acts 17: 31; "For he has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death."

I must be a little slow. Can you tell me the date of the close of the sixth day, immediately before the thousand year Sabbath?

I believe that you were once a Christian, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were, it is obvious that you never did really study your bible, other wise you would know that the Lord said through his obedient servant, the man Jesus, that no one knows that exact time.

BUT WE DO KNOW THAT A THOUSAND YEARS TO THE LORD IS AS ONE DAY. Adam was told that on the day he ate of the forbidden fruit, on that day he would die, which he did. he died at the age of 930 70 years before the close of that one thousand year day. At the close of the sixth day. the great Sabbath begins, of which the weekly Sabbath was but a shadow of this reality, which is "THE DAY OF THE LORD" The one thousand years rule of the Lord.
That bridge is still available and for just a little more I'll throw in the tallest mountain in the world.

After seeing the verbal dysentery that dribbles from your mouth, no one is ever going to buy your bridge. As for the mountain you will need it for the time that Luke speaks of in 23: 30; when people such as you will say to the mountains, Fall on us,: and to the hills, "Hide us."
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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1/4/2016 10:35:19 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 4:33:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:48:56 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:43:26 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:12:05 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:50:43 PM, Double_R wrote:
And BTW, no, I never studied the bible. Although I believed in Christ, my lack of devotion to his teachings makes me find the word "believer" to be a more accurate description of my pre-atheist position.

So you abandoned Christ in who you once believed without studying the truths attributed to him. What? Did one of the godless religion get to you and convert you to Atheism?

I believed in Christ because that is what mommy and daddy taught me to believe. Once I started reading various debates on the existence of God here on DDO and on various other sites I started to realize that there was no basis to believe that the bible is the word of God in the first place, so there was no reason to waste any time studying it.

So you abandoned the God as revealed in the scriptures on the words of people such as yourself who have never seriously studied the Good Book
Not much study needed.
Plants don't grow in a 0degk vacuum.
Page one.
The rest must be crap as well.

I suppose you know what you are babbling on about. By the way, wipe your chin son, that dribble is disgusting.
TiG
Posts: 25
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1/4/2016 2:15:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.
This is the epitome of over compensating. You haven't, and no human has, surveyed the entire possible enviroments where evidence might exist. This is like making the argument that studying and documenting only 2% of available places where the fossil record would be expected to be found is sufficient to argue a positive proof for evolution. (Btw, that was an actual reference to what iis fact) Do you agree 2% is an acceptable amount of knowledge to make a valid claim? No colleges do. No schools anywhere grade a person as passing the "what do you know about the subject" criteria if they merely demonstrated knowledge of 2% of the information.

You are correct that human beings will never have complete knowledge and thus the absence of evidence is not proof there is no God. A God could indeed exist.

That established, there is no evidence of God. The claim that God exists has no factual basis. It is simply unsubstantiated belief (aka faith).
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/4/2016 3:42:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 10:49:31 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
has any god revealed itself to you? there are ways to test that claim, depending on which god it was

Yes He has, in His Way.
Now this is a case of the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ understand.

One seeks affirmation amongst the faithful, but there"s no affirmation in the none believing, read the Gospels if you disagree. The believing and the faithful received of the Lord Jesus Christ but the none believing never got the proof they wanted.

But in explanation, it"s hard to put one"s finger on the words that work for others, it"s commonly referred to as "you know that you know that you know". A result of affirmations in the Lord that one is truly following. Also it"s not my job to prove in words that there is a God, I can only tell you about the Faith I have received.

That said, just how do you see that someone else knows the Living God?
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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1/4/2016 4:12:57 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 10:35:19 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/4/2016 4:33:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:48:56 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:43:26 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/3/2016 10:12:05 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/3/2016 9:50:43 PM, Double_R wrote:
And BTW, no, I never studied the bible. Although I believed in Christ, my lack of devotion to his teachings makes me find the word "believer" to be a more accurate description of my pre-atheist position.

So you abandoned Christ in who you once believed without studying the truths attributed to him. What? Did one of the godless religion get to you and convert you to Atheism?

I believed in Christ because that is what mommy and daddy taught me to believe. Once I started reading various debates on the existence of God here on DDO and on various other sites I started to realize that there was no basis to believe that the bible is the word of God in the first place, so there was no reason to waste any time studying it.

So you abandoned the God as revealed in the scriptures on the words of people such as yourself who have never seriously studied the Good Book
Not much study needed.
Plants don't grow in a 0degk vacuum.
Page one.
The rest must be crap as well.

I suppose you know what you are babbling on about. By the way, wipe your chin son, that dribble is disgusting.

Page one, no need to go further.
It's a lot of fun from my side, I see from the bitterness and anger that it's not so much from yours.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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1/4/2016 4:36:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/3/2016 7:46:39 AM, Gentorev wrote:
There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that intelligent life forms have evolved on any planet other than earth and yet how many atheists believe that there is other intelligent life out there within the cosmos, other than that which has evolved on this earth.
I don't know, how many do? Is the proportion statistically significant? What proportion would be statistically insignificant? What number would support the contention that one of the 4,000+ disparate religions was based in fact? What number would support the contention that none is?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,866
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1/4/2016 6:33:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 2:15:46 PM, TiG wrote:
Firstly, there is absolutely no quantifiable evidence, nor will there be, to prove that a deity exists - hence the term "faith". The ill-used argument that "you cannot prove there ISN'T a God" is frankly a logical fallacy - being that the first rule of Logic is that you are never called upon to argue a negative.
This is the epitome of over compensating. You haven't, and no human has, surveyed the entire possible enviroments where evidence might exist. This is like making the argument that studying and documenting only 2% of available places where the fossil record would be expected to be found is sufficient to argue a positive proof for evolution. (Btw, that was an actual reference to what iis fact) Do you agree 2% is an acceptable amount of knowledge to make a valid claim? No colleges do. No schools anywhere grade a person as passing the "what do you know about the subject" criteria if they merely demonstrated knowledge of 2% of the information.

You are correct that human beings will never have complete knowledge and thus the absence of evidence is not proof there is no God. A God could indeed exist.

That established, there is no evidence of God. The claim that God exists has no factual basis. It is simply unsubstantiated belief (aka faith).
Not the argument but nice straw man. I didn't say said "there is no evidence of God". The position that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence is a scientific principal. People say there is no evidence, you can't know that. You can't know what other people possess, there's about 7 billion of us you know,lol. Not to mention the ones who have lived and died.
But you're more than welcome to explain what environment is expected to be surveyed to find evidence of God. And then prove the environment you claim is in fact the only environment or prove the claim if there is more than one.
TiG
Posts: 25
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1/4/2016 6:54:25 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 6:33:01 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 1/4/2016 2:15:46 PM, TiG wrote:
That established, there is no evidence of God. The claim that God exists has no factual basis. It is simply unsubstantiated belief (aka faith).
Not the argument but nice straw man. I didn't say said "there is no evidence of God". The position that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence is a scientific principal. People say there is no evidence, you can't know that. You can't know what other people possess, there's about 7 billion of us you know,lol. Not to mention the ones who have lived and died.

How funny, you seem to be arguing that evidence *might* or *should* exist.
Might or should is irrelevant. There *might* be evidence that leprechauns exist. If you cannot present evidence then you cannot state that God exists - you can only speculate that God might exist.