Total Posts:30|Showing Posts:1-30
Jump to topic:

Miracles, Sainthood and Free Will

tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 3:27:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://www.marymackillop.org.au...
Australia has had it's first saint canonized- Mary Mackillop.

As John Safron would say, I've been thinking...

Now, since I read it on wikipedia (^_^) I can't be certain it's true but it seems as though that to be recognised and thus canonized as a saint, you need to have one certified miracle attributed to you (Mary Mackillop has two recognised miracles for instance.)
A miracle: "unexpected event attributed to divine intervention".

Now, this can go two ways.
You could have something that defies the laws of nature, for example: if I lost an arm and I prayed to Mary Mackillop to grow it back and it DID grow back.
OR
You could have something that is within the realm of nature, for example: if I had cancer and I prayed to Mary Mackillop and it went into spontanious remission.

Now, with the first type try as I might I can't find any recorded examples of people who've lost limbs having them grow back. Why? Because it's actually physically impossible. Spontanious Remission on the other hand, happens albeit uncommonly, regardless of prayer.

Anyway, the whole point of this topic is to ask two questions:
Isn't having your prayers answered with acts of God and divine intervention defeat the purpose of free will?
If I pray to Jesus to appear before me so that I know he is real, he won't. Why?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 4:41:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I know my questions are loaded, but I'm generally curious about this seemingly obvious contridiction.
We have a lot of highly intelligent Christians on this site.
To them: Do you believe that God causes miracles?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 6:13:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 4:41:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I know my questions are loaded, but I'm generally curious about this seemingly obvious contridiction.
We have a lot of highly intelligent Christians on this site.
To them: Do you believe that God causes miracles?

Yes.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 6:15:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 6:13:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/18/2010 4:41:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I know my questions are loaded, but I'm generally curious about this seemingly obvious contridiction.
We have a lot of highly intelligent Christians on this site.
To them: Do you believe that God causes miracles?

Yes.

As a result of prayer?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 6:30:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 6:15:33 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:13:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/18/2010 4:41:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I know my questions are loaded, but I'm generally curious about this seemingly obvious contridiction.
We have a lot of highly intelligent Christians on this site.
To them: Do you believe that God causes miracles?

Yes.

As a result of prayer?

With or without.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 6:31:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 6:30:25 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:15:33 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:13:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/18/2010 4:41:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I know my questions are loaded, but I'm generally curious about this seemingly obvious contridiction.
We have a lot of highly intelligent Christians on this site.
To them: Do you believe that God causes miracles?

Yes.

As a result of prayer?

With or without.

Would it annoy you if I was the subject of a miracle and you weren't?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 6:34:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 6:31:58 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:30:25 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:15:33 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:13:08 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/18/2010 4:41:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I know my questions are loaded, but I'm generally curious about this seemingly obvious contridiction.
We have a lot of highly intelligent Christians on this site.
To them: Do you believe that God causes miracles?

Yes.

As a result of prayer?

With or without.

Would it annoy you if I was the subject of a miracle and you weren't?

Please explain.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 6:45:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't really want to get into specific anecdotes or analogies, so please ignore my last question. It also moves away from my point.

If God causes miracles, why can't he send some overt sign that he exists and save us all from an eternity of seperation from him?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 6:52:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 6:45:27 PM, tvellalott wrote:

If God causes miracles, why can't he send some overt sign that he exists and save us all from an eternity of seperation from him?

Because then 'faith' would be unnecessary and this is all a 'test' for us mere mortals.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 6:52:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 6:45:27 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I don't really want to get into specific anecdotes or analogies, so please ignore my last question. It also moves away from my point.

If God causes miracles, why can't he send some overt sign that he exists and save us all from an eternity of seperation from him?

Would you believe? Would you bow down and worship Him if He did?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2010 7:51:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 6:52:23 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:45:27 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I don't really want to get into specific anecdotes or analogies, so please ignore my last question. It also moves away from my point.

If God causes miracles, why can't he send some overt sign that he exists and save us all from an eternity of seperation from him?

Would you believe? Would you bow down and worship Him if He did?

I would certainly believe, or at the very least doubt my own sanity.
I wouldn't worship Him though.

Also, you answered my question with a question.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2010 7:03:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 7:51:13 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:52:23 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/18/2010 6:45:27 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I don't really want to get into specific anecdotes or analogies, so please ignore my last question. It also moves away from my point.

If God causes miracles, why can't he send some overt sign that he exists and save us all from an eternity of seperation from him?

Save us ALL from an eternity of seperation. That is the result you implied if God were to give you an overt sign. But later you contridict this statement.

Would you believe? Would you bow down and worship Him if He did?

I would certainly believe, or at the very least doubt my own sanity.
I wouldn't worship Him though.

Belief isn't enough. If He exsists and He is your creator then why wouldn't you worship Him?

You seemed to say that He should give an obvious sign so that you will be saved. But you would not be saved because you wouldn't worship Him for what He is. So why excatly should He give you a sign then?


Also, you answered my question with a question.

I know. ;)
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
whatledge
Posts: 210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2010 11:09:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
A better argument against free will is the omniscience and creator factor of God. Granted that he created beings knowing their fate, he negates free will.
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2010 1:35:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/19/2010 11:09:36 AM, whatledge wrote:
A better argument against free will is the omniscience and creator factor of God. Granted that he created beings knowing their fate, he negates free will.

Playing devil's advocate, I ask you this:
If he doesn't intervene, how will his creation affect their actions? We make our choices, he just sets our creation into motion.
I miss the old members.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2010 1:48:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/19/2010 11:09:36 AM, whatledge wrote:
A better argument against free will is the omniscience and creator factor of God. Granted that he created beings knowing their fate, he negates free will.

I lol'd
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2010 1:59:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/19/2010 7:03:20 AM, jharry wrote:
Belief isn't enough. If He exsists and He is your creator then why wouldn't you worship Him?

You seemed to say that He should give an obvious sign so that you will be saved. But you would not be saved because you wouldn't worship Him for what He is. So why excatly should He give you a sign then?

IF he were to reveal himself with some overt sign; say the skies opened up and he popped his head out and spoke to the whole world...
Well, I have had a pretty rough hand dealt to me. Not anywhere near as bad as some poor bastards on this rock, but enough to have a little whinge about.
Being an Anti-theist, I not only don't believe in God but I also find most elements of religion utterly abhorent.
IF God revealed himself, I would have to question why he would allow such atrocities to happen in his name. He can heal some dude with cancer because he prayed to Saint Whoever, but he can't stop some paedophile priest who is supposed to be a servent of Him destroying the lives of innocent children?

Your God is wack. I don't worship him because he doesn't exist and I wouldn't worship him if he DID reveal himself for the same reasons I wouldn't worship a tyranical dictator who happened to give a few beggers his scraps when he was drunk.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/19/2010 2:00:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/19/2010 1:48:14 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 10/19/2010 11:09:36 AM, whatledge wrote:
A better argument against free will is the omniscience and creator factor of God. Granted that he created beings knowing their fate, he negates free will.

I lol'd

Me too. ^_^
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 1:01:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/19/2010 1:59:53 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/19/2010 7:03:20 AM, jharry wrote:
Belief isn't enough. If He exists and He is your creator then why wouldn't you worship Him?

You seemed to say that He should give an obvious sign so that you will be saved. But you would not be saved because you wouldn't worship Him for what He is. So why exactly should He give you a sign then?

IF he were to reveal himself with some overt sign; say the skies opened up and he popped his head out and spoke to the whole world...
Well, I have had a pretty rough hand dealt to me. Not anywhere near as bad as some poor bastards on this rock, but enough to have a little whinge about.

Me too, welcome to the club. :(

Being an Anti-theist, I not only don't believe in God but I also find most elements of religion utterly abhorrent.
IF God revealed himself, I would have to question why he would allow such atrocities to happen in his name. He can heal some dude with cancer because he prayed to Saint Whoever, but he can't stop some paedophile priest who is supposed to be a servant of Him destroying the lives of innocent children?

Your God is wack. I don't worship him because he doesn't exist and I wouldn't worship him if he DID reveal himself for the same reasons I wouldn't worship a tyrannical dictator who happened to give a few beggars his scraps when he was drunk.

But you think He should reveal Himself to you? Only to make your heart even harder then it already? Why would He want to do that?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 1:44:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/20/2010 1:01:14 PM, jharry wrote:
But you think He should reveal Himself to you? Only to make your heart even harder then it already? Why would He want to do that?

Well honestly, I can't tell you how I would react to God revealing himself.
I think he should reveal himself to everyone. Surely doing so would increase the people who were saved ten-fold.
The people who don't worship him now and still wouldn't worship him if he revealed himself are fvcked anyway, are they not?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 2:03:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/20/2010 1:44:50 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/20/2010 1:01:14 PM, jharry wrote:
But you think He should reveal Himself to you? Only to make your heart even harder then it already? Why would He want to do that?

Well honestly, I can't tell you how I would react to God revealing himself.
I think he should reveal himself to everyone. Surely doing so would increase the people who were saved ten-fold.
The people who don't worship him now and still wouldn't worship him if he revealed himself are fvcked anyway, are they not?

Yeah, pretty much.

Bu take a minute and imagine a world where there is no doubt that God is real. You complain and whine enough about religious influence enough as it is.

Just imagine if God popped out of the clouds and said "Hey yall, I'm real. I am the God of ............ I'm coming back" And then He disappeared again into the clouds.

Can you imagine how your world would change tomorrow if you decided to remain in your rebellion?

Think you don't like the laws based on religion now?Try to imagine that. :)

So, do you really want Him to do that?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 2:09:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm just curious. If Atheists believe there is no God what do they believe causes these "miracles" that have no scientific explanation?
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 3:28:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/20/2010 2:09:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I'm just curious. If Atheists believe there is no God what do they believe causes these "miracles" that have no scientific explanation?

There is no such thing.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 3:42:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/20/2010 2:03:18 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/20/2010 1:44:50 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/20/2010 1:01:14 PM, jharry wrote:
But you think He should reveal Himself to you? Only to make your heart even harder then it already? Why would He want to do that?

Well honestly, I can't tell you how I would react to God revealing himself.
I think he should reveal himself to everyone. Surely doing so would increase the people who were saved ten-fold.
The people who don't worship him now and still wouldn't worship him if he revealed himself are fvcked anyway, are they not?

Yeah, pretty much.
But take a minute and imagine a world where there is no doubt that God is real. You complain and whine enough about religious influence enough as it is.
Just imagine if God popped out of the clouds and said "Hey yall, I'm real. I am the God of ............ I'm coming back" And then He disappeared again into the clouds.
Can you imagine how your world would change tomorrow if you decided to remain in your rebellion?
Think you don't like the laws based on religion now?Try to imagine that. :)
So, do you really want Him to do that?

I want God to use his smiting powers on people who deserved to be smited, instead of punishing people for not believing in something that (from my perspective) is completely ridiculous.
If he popped his head out of the clouds and said "Boo!" and disappeared back into the clouds, my resentment would be even greater.

I may not be a Christian, but I value a lot of what Jesus (if he isn't a fabrication, which I believe he is) preached about. I just don't like all the stuff that replaces scrutiny and logic with faith. Faith is blindness.

I'm a reasonable guy God. Give me a reason to worship you and I will.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 4:00:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 4:41:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I know my questions are loaded, but I'm generally curious about this seemingly obvious contridiction.
We have a lot of highly intelligent Christians on this site.
To them: Do you believe that God causes miracles?

Yes and no.

God reveals Himself to some and for those, He does create miracles. In terms of others, nowhere in the Bible does it say that God does anything with His hand in terms of miracles. The only thing God has done personally to man after the Fall was spite humans for their corruption until He decided to forgive man and thus, sent Jesus.

I do believe that God works through some that He's anointed to create miracles. Those people will perform these miracles for those they encounter.

Yes, there is suffering in the world, but it isn't God's fault, nor is it circumstantial. It's because of people and what they're doing to put things in such a negative condition is sinning.

God has blessed us with free will and thus, will not eradicate sin. It requires that He rescinds free will in order to do so.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 5:06:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/20/2010 4:00:58 PM, Ren wrote:
I do believe that God works through some that He's anointed to create miracles. Those people will perform these miracles for those they encounter.

Why don't these miracles ever consist of anything that can't be explained without divine intervention?

Yes, there is suffering in the world, but it isn't God's fault, nor is it circumstantial. It's because of people and what they're doing to put things in such a negative condition is sinning.

If I got together a bunch of children and put them in a house with all the resources required to live and left them with a picture book about morals, they would undoubtably destroy the house and kill each other. Would it be the childrens fault?

God has blessed us with free will and thus, will not eradicate sin. It requires that He rescinds free will in order to do so.

I don't think you understand.
You claim he can't get involved in human affairs because it would rescind free will.
You also claim that sometimes he does get involved and performs miracles.
What the?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2010 7:58:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/20/2010 5:06:39 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/20/2010 4:00:58 PM, Ren wrote:
I do believe that God works through some that He's anointed to create miracles. Those people will perform these miracles for those they encounter.

Why don't these miracles ever consist of anything that can't be explained without divine intervention?

Triple negative for the win
Let me elaborate before someone hits me with a stick:
No miracle exists that cannot be explained scientifically.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2010 6:22:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/20/2010 3:42:22 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/20/2010 2:03:18 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/20/2010 1:44:50 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/20/2010 1:01:14 PM, jharry wrote:
But you think He should reveal Himself to you? Only to make your heart even harder then it already? Why would He want to do that?

Well honestly, I can't tell you how I would react to God revealing himself.
I think he should reveal himself to everyone. Surely doing so would increase the people who were saved ten-fold.
The people who don't worship him now and still wouldn't worship him if he revealed himself are fvcked anyway, are they not?

Yeah, pretty much.
But take a minute and imagine a world where there is no doubt that God is real. You complain and whine enough about religious influence enough as it is.
Just imagine if God popped out of the clouds and said "Hey yall, I'm real. I am the God of ............ I'm coming back" And then He disappeared again into the clouds.
Can you imagine how your world would change tomorrow if you decided to remain in your rebellion?
Think you don't like the laws based on religion now?Try to imagine that. :)
So, do you really want Him to do that?

I want God to use his smiting powers on people who deserved to be smited, instead of punishing people for not believing in something that (from my perspective) is completely ridiculous.

And you can honestly judge another person to that point?

If he popped his head out of the clouds and said "Boo!" and disappeared back into the clouds, my resentment would be even greater.

Lol. Yeah, if he said "boo" I would begin to wonder also.

I may not be a Christian, but I value a lot of what Jesus (if he isn't a fabrication, which I believe he is) preached about. I just don't like all the stuff that replaces scrutiny and logic with faith. Faith is blindness.

Like what? Love? Forgiveness? Humility? Sacrifice? You have a problem with these things?

I'm a reasonable guy God. Give me a reason to worship you and I will.

"I already have."
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2010 7:01:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/21/2010 6:22:19 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/20/2010 3:42:22 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I want God to use his smiting powers on people who deserved to be smited, instead of punishing people for not believing in something that (from my perspective) is completely ridiculous.

And you can honestly judge another person to that point?

No, but Captain Omniscient surely can.

I may not be a Christian, but I value a lot of what Jesus (if he isn't a fabrication, which I believe he is) preached about. I just don't like all the stuff that replaces scrutiny and logic with faith. Faith is blindness.

Like what? Love? Forgiveness? Humility? Sacrifice? You have a problem with these things?

Umm, what? Those are the things about the teaching of Jesus that I value as I just said. I'm talking more about the sanctimonious bullsh!t ceremonies and rituals. I'm talking about the intolerance and feelings of superiority people of the Abrahamic faiths have.

I'm a reasonable guy God. Give me a reason to worship you and I will.

"I already have."

Care to elaborate?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2010 7:05:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/21/2010 7:01:15 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 10/21/2010 6:22:19 PM, jharry wrote:
At 10/20/2010 3:42:22 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I want God to use his smiting powers on people who deserved to be smited, instead of punishing people for not believing in something that (from my perspective) is completely ridiculous.

And you can honestly judge another person to that point?

No, but Captain Omniscient surely can.

And He does.

I may not be a Christian, but I value a lot of what Jesus (if he isn't a fabrication, which I believe he is) preached about. I just don't like all the stuff that replaces scrutiny and logic with faith. Faith is blindness.

Like what? Love? Forgiveness? Humility? Sacrifice? You have a problem with these things?

Umm, what? Those are the things about the teaching of Jesus that I value as I just said. I'm talking more about the sanctimonious bullsh!t ceremonies and rituals. I'm talking about the intolerance and feelings of superiority people of the Abrahamic faiths have.

Like what? Feelings? I hope your not generalizing every single religious (Abrahamic) person by what some are or have done.

I'm a reasonable guy God. Give me a reason to worship you and I will.

"I already have."

Care to elaborate?

Oh. I thought you were having an conversation with God. If He did exist in your view. Sorry.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/21/2010 7:28:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/20/2010 5:06:39 PM, tvellalott wrote:
No miracle exists that cannot be explained scientifically.

Conception.

If I got together a bunch of children and put them in a house with all the resources required to live and left them with a picture book about morals, they would undoubtably destroy the house and kill each other. Would it be the childrens fault?

Lord of the Flies is an assumption.

Anyway, technically, yes.

God has blessed us with free will and thus, will not eradicate sin. It requires that He rescinds free will in order to do so.
I don't think you understand.
You claim he can't get involved in human affairs because it would rescind free will.
You also claim that sometimes he does get involved and performs miracles.
What the?