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Why Did Jesus Suffer and Die?

Timothex_JJ
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1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)

What would you say if you were asked, "Do you want to live forever?" Most people would probably say that they want to but that they feel it is unrealistic to consider it. Death is a normal part of life, they say, the natural outcome of our existence.

Suppose, though, that the question were turned around and you were asked, "Are you ready to die?" Under normal circumstances, most people would answer no. The point? In spite of the trials and hardships we face, our normal and natural desire is to live. The Bible shows that God created humans with the desire and the will to live. In fact, it says that "he has even put eternity in their heart." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

The reality, though, is that humans do not live forever. So, what went wrong? Furthermore, has God done anything to remedy the situation? The Bible"s answers are heartening, and they have a direct bearing on why Jesus suffered and died.

WHAT WENT WRONG

The first three chapters of the Bible book of Genesis tell us that God set before the first human couple, Adam and Eve, the prospect of unending life and told them what they would have to do to gain it. Then the account describes how they failed to obey God and lost that prospect. The story is told simply, so simply that some are quick to dismiss it as folklore. But Genesis, like the Gospels, gives every indication of being a factual, historical record.

What has been the result of Adam"s failure to obey? The Bible answers this way: "Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned." (Romans 5:12) By disobeying God, Adam sinned. He thus lost the prospect of endless life and eventually died. Being his descendants, we have inherited his sinful condition. As a result, we are subject to sickness, old age, and death. This explanation of why we die is in harmony with what we know today about heredity. But has God done anything to remedy the situation?

WHAT GOD HAS DONE
Yes, God made arrangements to redeem, or buy back, what Adam had lost for his descendants, namely, the prospect of endless life. How did God accomplish that?

"The wages sin pays is death," says the Bible at Romans 6:23. This means that death is the consequence of sin. Adam sinned, so he died. Likewise, we sin and are therefore subject to sin"s wages, death. But we were born in this sinful condition through no fault of our own. So God lovingly sent his Son, Jesus, to accept "the wages of sin" for us. How does this work?

Since one man, the perfect man Adam, brought sin and death on us through disobedience, a perfect man obedient even till death was needed to release us from that burden. The Bible explains it this way: "Just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:19) Jesus was that "one person." He left heaven, became a perfect man *, and died in our behalf. As a result, it is possible for us to have a righteous standing with God and gain the prospect of endless life.

WHY JESUS SUFFERED AND DIED
Why, though, was it necessary for Jesus to die to accomplish this? Could not Almighty God have simply issued a decree that Adam"s descendants be allowed to live forever? He certainly had the authority to do so. But that would have disregarded his stated law that the wages of sin is death. That law is no petty rule that can be dismissed or changed for convenience. It is fundamental to true justice. (Psalm 37:28)

Had God set justice aside in this instance, people might have wondered whether he would do so in other matters as well. For example, would he be fair in determining who among Adam"s offspring qualify for eternal life? Could he be trusted to keep his promises? God"s adherence to justice in working out our salvation is assurance to us that he will always do what is right.

By Jesus" sacrificial death, God opened the way to endless life in Paradise on earth. Note Jesus" words as recorded at John 3:16: "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." Jesus" death is thus an expression not only of God"s unfailing justice but, more specially, of his great love for humans.

However, why did Jesus have to suffer and die in the painful way that was described in the Gospels? By subjecting himself to the extreme test and remaining faithful, Jesus refuted once and for all the Devil"s claim that humans would not remain loyal to God when under trial. (Job 2:4, 5) That claim might have seemed valid after Satan induced perfect Adam to sin. But Jesus"who was Adam"s perfect equivalent"remained obedient despite severe suffering. (1 Corinthians 15:45) He thus proved that Adam too could have obeyed God if he had chosen to do so. By enduring under trial, Jesus left us a model to follow. (1 Peter 2:21) God rewarded his Son"s perfect obedience, granting Jesus immortal life in heaven.

HOW YOU CAN BENEFIT
Jesus" death really occurred. The way to unending life is open. Do you want to live forever? Jesus indicated what we need to do when he said: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

To learn more about Jehovah, the true God, and about his Son, Jesus Christ. Please Visit: https://www.jw.org...
Redfordnutt
Posts: 222
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1/8/2016 4:51:07 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)

What would you say if you were asked, "Do you want to live forever?" Most people would probably say that they want to but that they feel it is unrealistic to consider it. Death is a normal part of life, they say, the natural outcome of our existence.

Suppose, though, that the question were turned around and you were asked, "Are you ready to die?" Under normal circumstances, most people would answer no. The point? In spite of the trials and hardships we face, our normal and natural desire is to live. The Bible shows that God created humans with the desire and the will to live. In fact, it says that "he has even put eternity in their heart." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

The reality, though, is that humans do not live forever. So, what went wrong? Furthermore, has God done anything to remedy the situation? The Bible"s answers are heartening, and they have a direct bearing on why Jesus suffered and died.

WHAT WENT WRONG

The first three chapters of the Bible book of Genesis tell us that God set before the first human couple, Adam and Eve, the prospect of unending life and told them what they would have to do to gain it. Then the account describes how they failed to obey God and lost that prospect. The story is told simply, so simply that some are quick to dismiss it as folklore. But Genesis, like the Gospels, gives every indication of being a factual, historical record.

What has been the result of Adam"s failure to obey? The Bible answers this way: "Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned." (Romans 5:12) By disobeying God, Adam sinned. He thus lost the prospect of endless life and eventually died. Being his descendants, we have inherited his sinful condition. As a result, we are subject to sickness, old age, and death. This explanation of why we die is in harmony with what we know today about heredity. But has God done anything to remedy the situation?

WHAT GOD HAS DONE
Yes, God made arrangements to redeem, or buy back, what Adam had lost for his descendants, namely, the prospect of endless life. How did God accomplish that?

"The wages sin pays is death," says the Bible at Romans 6:23. This means that death is the consequence of sin. Adam sinned, so he died. Likewise, we sin and are therefore subject to sin"s wages, death. But we were born in this sinful condition through no fault of our own. So God lovingly sent his Son, Jesus, to accept "the wages of sin" for us. How does this work?

Since one man, the perfect man Adam, brought sin and death on us through disobedience, a perfect man obedient even till death was needed to release us from that burden. The Bible explains it this way: "Just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:19) Jesus was that "one person." He left heaven, became a perfect man *, and died in our behalf. As a result, it is possible for us to have a righteous standing with God and gain the prospect of endless life.

WHY JESUS SUFFERED AND DIED
Why, though, was it necessary for Jesus to die to accomplish this? Could not Almighty God have simply issued a decree that Adam"s descendants be allowed to live forever? He certainly had the authority to do so. But that would have disregarded his stated law that the wages of sin is death. That law is no petty rule that can be dismissed or changed for convenience. It is fundamental to true justice. (Psalm 37:28)

Had God set justice aside in this instance, people might have wondered whether he would do so in other matters as well. For example, would he be fair in determining who among Adam"s offspring qualify for eternal life? Could he be trusted to keep his promises? God"s adherence to justice in working out our salvation is assurance to us that he will always do what is right.

By Jesus" sacrificial death, God opened the way to endless life in Paradise on earth. Note Jesus" words as recorded at John 3:16: "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." Jesus" death is thus an expression not only of God"s unfailing justice but, more specially, of his great love for humans.

However, why did Jesus have to suffer and die in the painful way that was described in the Gospels? By subjecting himself to the extreme test and remaining faithful, Jesus refuted once and for all the Devil"s claim that humans would not remain loyal to God when under trial. (Job 2:4, 5) That claim might have seemed valid after Satan induced perfect Adam to sin. But Jesus"who was Adam"s perfect equivalent"remained obedient despite severe suffering. (1 Corinthians 15:45) He thus proved that Adam too could have obeyed God if he had chosen to do so. By enduring under trial, Jesus left us a model to follow. (1 Peter 2:21) God rewarded his Son"s perfect obedience, granting Jesus immortal life in heaven.

HOW YOU CAN BENEFIT
Jesus" death really occurred. The way to unending life is open. Do you want to live forever? Jesus indicated what we need to do when he said: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

To learn more about Jehovah, the true God, and about his Son, Jesus Christ. Please Visit: https://www.jw.org...

I'm not convinced he ever lived in the first place.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,064
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1/8/2016 4:54:38 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)

What would you say if you were asked, "Do you want to live forever?" Most people would probably say that they want to but that they feel it is unrealistic to consider it. Death is a normal part of life, they say, the natural outcome of our existence.

Suppose, though, that the question were turned around and you were asked, "Are you ready to die?" Under normal circumstances, most people would answer no. The point? In spite of the trials and hardships we face, our normal and natural desire is to live. The Bible shows that God created humans with the desire and the will to live. In fact, it says that "he has even put eternity in their heart." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

The reality, though, is that humans do not live forever. So, what went wrong? Furthermore, has God done anything to remedy the situation? The Bible"s answers are heartening, and they have a direct bearing on why Jesus suffered and died.

WHAT WENT WRONG

The first three chapters of the Bible book of Genesis tell us that God set before the first human couple, Adam and Eve, the prospect of unending life and told them what they would have to do to gain it. Then the account describes how they failed to obey God and lost that prospect. The story is told simply, so simply that some are quick to dismiss it as folklore. But Genesis, like the Gospels, gives every indication of being a factual, historical record.

What has been the result of Adam"s failure to obey? The Bible answers this way: "Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned." (Romans 5:12) By disobeying God, Adam sinned. He thus lost the prospect of endless life and eventually died. Being his descendants, we have inherited his sinful condition. As a result, we are subject to sickness, old age, and death. This explanation of why we die is in harmony with what we know today about heredity. But has God done anything to remedy the situation?

WHAT GOD HAS DONE
Yes, God made arrangements to redeem, or buy back, what Adam had lost for his descendants, namely, the prospect of endless life. How did God accomplish that?

"The wages sin pays is death," says the Bible at Romans 6:23. This means that death is the consequence of sin. Adam sinned, so he died. Likewise, we sin and are therefore subject to sin"s wages, death. But we were born in this sinful condition through no fault of our own. So God lovingly sent his Son, Jesus, to accept "the wages of sin" for us. How does this work?

Since one man, the perfect man Adam, brought sin and death on us through disobedience, a perfect man obedient even till death was needed to release us from that burden. The Bible explains it this way: "Just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:19) Jesus was that "one person." He left heaven, became a perfect man *, and died in our behalf. As a result, it is possible for us to have a righteous standing with God and gain the prospect of endless life.

WHY JESUS SUFFERED AND DIED
Why, though, was it necessary for Jesus to die to accomplish this? Could not Almighty God have simply issued a decree that Adam"s descendants be allowed to live forever? He certainly had the authority to do so. But that would have disregarded his stated law that the wages of sin is death. That law is no petty rule that can be dismissed or changed for convenience. It is fundamental to true justice. (Psalm 37:28)

Had God set justice aside in this instance, people might have wondered whether he would do so in other matters as well. For example, would he be fair in determining who among Adam"s offspring qualify for eternal life? Could he be trusted to keep his promises? God"s adherence to justice in working out our salvation is assurance to us that he will always do what is right.

By Jesus" sacrificial death, God opened the way to endless life in Paradise on earth. Note Jesus" words as recorded at John 3:16: "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." Jesus" death is thus an expression not only of God"s unfailing justice but, more specially, of his great love for humans.

However, why did Jesus have to suffer and die in the painful way that was described in the Gospels? By subjecting himself to the extreme test and remaining faithful, Jesus refuted once and for all the Devil"s claim that humans would not remain loyal to God when under trial. (Job 2:4, 5) That claim might have seemed valid after Satan induced perfect Adam to sin. But Jesus"who was Adam"s perfect equivalent"remained obedient despite severe suffering. (1 Corinthians 15:45) He thus proved that Adam too could have obeyed God if he had chosen to do so. By enduring under trial, Jesus left us a model to follow. (1 Peter 2:21) God rewarded his Son"s perfect obedience, granting Jesus immortal life in heaven.

HOW YOU CAN BENEFIT
Jesus" death really occurred. The way to unending life is open. Do you want to live forever? Jesus indicated what we need to do when he said: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

To learn more about Jehovah, the true God, and about his Son, Jesus Christ. Please Visit: https://www.jw.org...

and of course using the name Jesus they mean the angel michael..... i have never heard that salvation comes through an angel..
Casten
Posts: 391
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1/9/2016 3:42:57 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I don't believe in original sin. I think it was an idea that was invented to help us rationalize suffering and death. We find chaos and senseless pain difficult to accept, so we tell a story about how human character flaws brought all this badness into the world. It's not unlike the story of Pandora's box in that regard, I suppose. It seems like we've always asked "Gosh, why does the world suck?" and answered "Well, we must've screwed up."
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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1/9/2016 5:32:31 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/9/2016 3:42:57 AM, Casten wrote:
I don't believe in original sin. I think it was an idea that was invented to help us rationalize suffering and death. We find chaos and senseless pain difficult to accept, so we tell a story about how human character flaws brought all this badness into the world. It's not unlike the story of Pandora's box in that regard, I suppose. It seems like we've always asked "Gosh, why does the world suck?" and answered "Well, we must've screwed up."
+1
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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1/9/2016 6:16:02 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 4:54:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)
There are NO literal Gods so we can't sin against a myth!

&

In bible Story book land A & Eve were created innately dependent on the ' Tree of Life ' to make them immortal/live forever!

That being the case they were innately MORTAL, hence they DID NOT bring Death upon themselves!
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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1/9/2016 3:46:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/9/2016 6:16:02 AM, Composer wrote:
At 1/8/2016 4:54:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)
There are NO literal Gods so we can't sin against a myth!

&

In bible Story book land A & Eve were created innately dependent on the ' Tree of Life ' to make them immortal/live forever!

That being the case they were innately MORTAL, hence they DID NOT bring Death upon themselves!

Wrong.

This is what happens when the atheist knows pop Christianity. He picked it up in the culture rather than by actually reading the Bible.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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1/9/2016 4:26:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/9/2016 3:46:53 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/9/2016 6:16:02 AM, Composer wrote:
At 1/8/2016 4:54:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)
There are NO literal Gods so we can't sin against a myth!

&

In bible Story book land A & Eve were created innately dependent on the ' Tree of Life ' to make them immortal/live forever!

That being the case they were innately MORTAL, hence they DID NOT bring Death upon themselves!

Wrong.

This is what happens when the atheist knows pop Christianity. He picked it up in the culture rather than by actually reading the Bible.

What does the bible have to do with christianity?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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1/9/2016 10:16:09 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/9/2016 4:26:56 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/9/2016 3:46:53 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/9/2016 6:16:02 AM, Composer wrote:
At 1/8/2016 4:54:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)
There are NO literal Gods so we can't sin against a myth!

&

In bible Story book land A & Eve were created innately dependent on the ' Tree of Life ' to make them immortal/live forever!

That being the case they were innately MORTAL, hence they DID NOT bring Death upon themselves!

Wrong.

This is what happens when the atheist knows pop Christianity. He picked it up in the culture rather than by actually reading the Bible.

What does the bible have to do with christianity?

The same thing the American constitution has to do with Americans.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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1/10/2016 4:38:58 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)

What would you say if you were asked, "Do you want to live forever?" Most people would probably say that they want to but that they feel it is unrealistic to consider it. Death is a normal part of life, they say, the natural outcome of our existence.

Suppose, though, that the question were turned around and you were asked, "Are you ready to die?" Under normal circumstances, most people would answer no. The point? In spite of the trials and hardships we face, our normal and natural desire is to live. The Bible shows that God created humans with the desire and the will to live. In fact, it says that "he has even put eternity in their heart." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

The reality, though, is that humans do not live forever. So, what went wrong? Furthermore, has God done anything to remedy the situation? The Bible"s answers are heartening, and they have a direct bearing on why Jesus suffered and died.

WHAT WENT WRONG

The first three chapters of the Bible book of Genesis tell us that God set before the first human couple, Adam and Eve, the prospect of unending life and told them what they would have to do to gain it. Then the account describes how they failed to obey God and lost that prospect. The story is told simply, so simply that some are quick to dismiss it as folklore. But Genesis, like the Gospels, gives every indication of being a factual, historical record.

What has been the result of Adam"s failure to obey? The Bible answers this way: "Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned." (Romans 5:12) By disobeying God, Adam sinned. He thus lost the prospect of endless life and eventually died. Being his descendants, we have inherited his sinful condition. As a result, we are subject to sickness, old age, and death. This explanation of why we die is in harmony with what we know today about heredity. But has God done anything to remedy the situation?

WHAT GOD HAS DONE
Yes, God made arrangements to redeem, or buy back, what Adam had lost for his descendants, namely, the prospect of endless life. How did God accomplish that?

"The wages sin pays is death," says the Bible at Romans 6:23. This means that death is the consequence of sin. Adam sinned, so he died. Likewise, we sin and are therefore subject to sin"s wages, death. But we were born in this sinful condition through no fault of our own. So God lovingly sent his Son, Jesus, to accept "the wages of sin" for us. How does this work?

Since one man, the perfect man Adam, brought sin and death on us through disobedience, a perfect man obedient even till death was needed to release us from that burden. The Bible explains it this way: "Just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous." (Romans 5:19) Jesus was that "one person." He left heaven, became a perfect man *, and died in our behalf. As a result, it is possible for us to have a righteous standing with God and gain the prospect of endless life.

WHY JESUS SUFFERED AND DIED
Why, though, was it necessary for Jesus to die to accomplish this? Could not Almighty God have simply issued a decree that Adam"s descendants be allowed to live forever? He certainly had the authority to do so. But that would have disregarded his stated law that the wages of sin is death. That law is no petty rule that can be dismissed or changed for convenience. It is fundamental to true justice. (Psalm 37:28)

Had God set justice aside in this instance, people might have wondered whether he would do so in other matters as well. For example, would he be fair in determining who among Adam"s offspring qualify for eternal life? Could he be trusted to keep his promises? God"s adherence to justice in working out our salvation is assurance to us that he will always do what is right.

By Jesus" sacrificial death, God opened the way to endless life in Paradise on earth. Note Jesus" words as recorded at John 3:16: "God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." Jesus" death is thus an expression not only of God"s unfailing justice but, more specially, of his great love for humans.

However, why did Jesus have to suffer and die in the painful way that was described in the Gospels? By subjecting himself to the extreme test and remaining faithful, Jesus refuted once and for all the Devil"s claim that humans would not remain loyal to God when under trial. (Job 2:4, 5) That claim might have seemed valid after Satan induced perfect Adam to sin. But Jesus"who was Adam"s perfect equivalent"remained obedient despite severe suffering. (1 Corinthians 15:45) He thus proved that Adam too could have obeyed God if he had chosen to do so. By enduring under trial, Jesus left us a model to follow. (1 Peter 2:21) God rewarded his Son"s perfect obedience, granting Jesus immortal life in heaven.

HOW YOU CAN BENEFIT
Jesus" death really occurred. The way to unending life is open. Do you want to live forever? Jesus indicated what we need to do when he said: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

To learn more about Jehovah, the true God, and about his Son, Jesus Christ. Please Visit: https://www.jw.org...

Why do you not translate the Hebrew name for God into English, "WHO I AM"? Then you could be a witness to "WHO I AM."

The Hebrews replaced the word "JHWH" to Lord, as it seemed better to say, I witness to the Lord, rather than I witness to "WHO I AM," or "You must love the Lord, rather than, "You must love "WHO I AM."

By using the Hebrew word, "Jehovah" you are not saying I am true to the Lord, but in reality, what you are saying is, "I am true to "WHO I AM."

In Exodus 3: 13; Moses asked the Lord, "When I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your ancestors sent me to you,' they will ask me, 'What is his name?' So what can I tell them?"

God said "I am, who I am. You must tell them: 'The one who is called I AM has sent me to you.'"

So get behind me you charlatans
You priests and you shams
For I am true to MY God
To MY God, "WHO I AM."
Amoranemix
Posts: 521
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1/10/2016 12:40:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Since no one provided any evidence for that story I would like know whether we are to read it as a biased account of real events or as a myth. In the former case I would like to know on what grounds we ought to accept it as factual.

I won't respond to what is probably just a myth, except for two instances where to story seems to interfere with reality.

- Timothex_JJ 1
The story is told simply, so simply that some are quick to dismiss it as folklore. But Genesis, like the Gospels, gives every indication of being a factual, historical record.
What evidence can you present to support that claim ?

- Timothex_JJ 1
Why, though, was it necessary for Jesus to die to accomplish this? Could not Almighty God have simply issued a decree that Adam"s descendants be allowed to live forever? He certainly had the authority to do so. But that would have disregarded his stated law that the wages of sin is death. That law is no petty rule that can be dismissed or changed for convenience. It is fundamental to true justice. (Psalm 37:28)
That the law is fundamental to true justice, is that just Christian bias speaking, or is that a claim that can be well supported ?

Now I have some further questions about that story.

I would like to know what sin is. The story represents it as some sort of curse or disease. If that is the case, who cursed humans with sin and why ? If not, what is it ? Also what is the relation between to sin (the verb) and sin (the substantive) ?

The explanation of the story as to why God had Jesus tortured and killed is incomplete. It says that God created a mess and then had Jesus killed to clean it up. However, it fails to mention why God created a mess in the first place, nor why he didn't use a different cleaning method.

I think the answer falls in one or more of three categories : weakness, stupidity or malice. According to the story God is a wonderful guy, which excludes malice. As far as I can see the two options are thus the following :

1) There are hidden (meaning the story doesn't explain them) constraints under which God had to operate. For example he could have worked under orders from a god-continuum that forbade him to interfere with Adam eating from the tree of knowledge.
2) God simply made a series of mistakes out of clumsiness and didn't know how to correct them. For example, he failed to anticipate Adam would eat from the tree and once that had happened he couldn't think of any better way to remove the curse than sacrificing his son.

Of course it could also be that the story is wrong and that God acted out of malice.

Are there people who believe that story to be true ? Can they present evidence to support it and answer those questions about it ?
The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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1/10/2016 12:44:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
You ask the question: "Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

Jesus, who had become one with his indwelling evolving spirit, (ENOCH) who was the only man to have been given the lot of eternal LIFE, and who was the evolved compilation of all the righteous spirits over whom the second death had no power, could not die.

John 14: 30; "I cannot talk to you much longer for (Death) the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me, but the world must know I love the Father, that is why I do all that he commands of me."

Although Jesus, the duplication of his indwelling evolving righteous ancestral spirit, was offered up as our sacrifice, like Isaac the son of God"s promise who, like Jesus, was born according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, it was not he who died, for God had prepared a sacrifice in his place also.

It was Enoch who had duplicated himself in Jesus, who ceased to be a separate identity, by releasing all the spirits of those good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness after paying the blood price for sin, and had been Gathered to the bosom of Abraham in who was the evolving spirit of Enoch.

These were the risen spiritual body of the Anointed one, who came out of their graves when Jesus gave up the spirit within him, and these were the ones, who three days later, went into the city and showed themselves to many.

When Enoch, the only man to have ever ascended to the heights of heaven, came down as "The Son of Man" and was chosen by Abraham as his God, he said to Abraham, "In blessing I will bless you and in multiplying I will multiply you.

From that day onward, all the spirits of Good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness after paying the blood price for any sins or mistakes that they had made in their lives, were judged and separated from the unrighteous dead and gathered to the evolving spirit of Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham.

Isaiah 57: 1; "Good people die and no one understands or even cares. But when they (Good People) die, no calamity can harm them. Those who lead good lives, find peace and rest in death."

If those who live good lives find peace and rest in death, then there awaits a state of fearful expectation for those who lead wicked lives, as described by Jesus in his Parable of "Lazarus and the rich man."

After Enoch had remained within the inner dimension that co-exists within this visible three dimensional body for three days, or rather three periods of One thousand years, he was made manifest as the man Jesus, the first of many brothers and sisters to be transformed into the glorious image of the Heavenly Simulacrum=blueprint who are the new species to evolve from man, the androgynous body in which God"s only begotten Son, "The Son of Man," will dwell on earth among mankind: The Son of Man, who ceases to be an individual entity, when all the brothers and sisters of Jesus are filled with his spirit also.
MadCornishBiker
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1/10/2016 1:09:16 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)

Cut for the sake of space.


To learn more about Jehovah, the true God, and about his Son, Jesus Christ. Please Visit: https://www.jw.org...

That is a pretty comprehensive summary, with little more I can add.

The only thing I will add to it is that as part of Jehovah's justice , he was forced, on the principle that Justice applies equally to the guilty and the innocent to give the one who made himself into a Satan, and a Devil, to give that one a fair opportunity to prove his case.

That is why we have the permission of evil, which is rapidly nearing its end.

Jehovah set a time limit to Satan's opportunity, and that is why Jehovah's plan to counter it, and bring mankind back to the holy state which Adam enjoyed has been developed so slowly. It was timed to come to it's peak at the end of the tie given to Satan to prove himself innocent of slandering Jehovah.

We are about to enter the final part of Jehovah's plan. Satan's opportunity to prove that he can corrupt all of imperfect mankind has failed, and Armageddon is soon to clear this earth of all his works and his followers, unwitting or not.

That is why Jehovah called those few Brothers and Sisters to the side of his son, and gave them to him to train for the work of gathering in the few remaining anointed ones, the few who will be on the earth to welcome the resurrected ones, as well as to warn all the people what is to come, as Noah did prior to the flood.

The we enter the period where the dead will be resurrected into holy, Adam like bodies and given the chance, as perfect humans, to live in Jehovah's approved way, in perfect conditions and without the interference of Satan until they have been well prepared for one final test.

That is when Satan is let loose again, for one final effort. Those who fall for his tricks will vanish, never to be seen again. Those who do not will enjoy the blessings listed in the last three chapters of Revelation eternally.

Jehovah be praised for all he has done, is doing, and will do for his faithful people, through the guidance and rule of his son, his only begotten son, the only one he created all alone, and therefore a very special son to him, and to those of us who truly appreciate what Jehovah has done and who have not, again thanks to Jehovah, fallen prey to the myriad diversionary tactics of Satan in this time of the end.

Are we special people?

Not in any way that all humanity cannot be special if it chooses to, as Paul made very clear at 1 Corinthians 1:26-30. Read there the sort of people Jehovah chooses,and see if you are prepared to be counted amongst such ones, treated as of no account by this world.

As the OP said, it has never been easier to learn the truth of what is happening in this world.

You don't have to answer your door.

You don't have to register with the web site.

All you have to do is to log on to http://www.jw.org..., and spend as much time as you like browsing, reading or listening to the publications available there free of charge, watching the many videos aimed at all age groups, or going into the "library" and studying the Bible there with the aid of many cross references and other study aids.

There is not an important issue that isn't covered there in one publication or another.

As mentioned earlier, it really cannot be easier, but it could save your eternal life.

However it will always be your choice, Jehovah will never take away our free will, but the choice is literally eternal life or eternal death. Simple as that.

You only have to ask yourself one question. It could not be simpler

How much do I value my eternal life, and that of my loved ones?
bulproof
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1/10/2016 1:28:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/10/2016 1:09:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
How much do I value my eternal life,
Or how much do I value the eternal life of a balloon?
There is no eternal life.
That is a story told to children.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Composer
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1/11/2016 5:21:12 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/9/2016 6:16:02 AM, Composer wrote:
At 1/8/2016 4:54:38 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/6/2016 11:27:02 PM, Timothex_JJ wrote:
"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin." (Romans 5:12)
There are NO literal Gods so we can't sin against a myth!

&

In bible Story book land A & Eve were created innately dependent on the ' Tree of Life ' to make them immortal/live forever!

That being the case they were innately MORTAL, hence they DID NOT bring Death upon themselves!

At 1/9/2016 3:46:53 PM, ethang5 wrote:
Wrong.

Yes you are!

This is what happens when idiots picked it up in their cult, rather than by actually reading the Bible.