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What's The Complaint About?

be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/8/2016 3:33:39 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

The heaven inhabited by the Biblical version of the deity would be my idea of hell, as it is a psychopath!
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/8/2016 3:36:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:33:39 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

The heaven inhabited by the Biblical version of the deity would be my idea of hell, as it is a psychopath!

So you hold the same standards in this world, but you expect it to be different in heaven? Do you think that liars and murderers and thieves should be allowed in? Do you allow them into your home?

I would say that the one who has no standards and doesn't protect his home and family is more likely the psychopath.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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1/8/2016 3:38:03 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

What effort does an omnipotent being wield to keep his domain safe and existent? By comparison, what effort does your average human wield to do the same? Based on the effort applied, whom has more reason to allow or disallow what?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/8/2016 3:40:02 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

Heaven was messed up before Moses. Where do you thing Lucufer/Satan came from? The Angels were already battling it out in heaven in a power struggle and Lucifer was sent away to earth.

The final destination for all sinners save by Jesus is heaven. So heaven will be made up of saints and sinners and a few Jehovah witnesses.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/8/2016 3:40:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:36:40 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:33:39 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

The heaven inhabited by the Biblical version of the deity would be my idea of hell, as it is a psychopath!

So you hold the same standards in this world, but you expect it to be different in heaven? Do you think that liars and murderers and thieves should be allowed in? Do you allow them into your home?

I would say that the one who has no standards and doesn't protect his home and family is more likely the psychopath.

No human, however bad, is as evil as that Biblical deity, if it exists, and what is attributed to it were true!
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/8/2016 3:46:31 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:40:02 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

Heaven was messed up before Moses. Where do you thing Lucufer/Satan came from? The Angels were already battling it out in heaven in a power struggle and Lucifer was sent away to earth.

The final destination for all sinners save by Jesus is heaven. So heaven will be made up of saints and sinners and a few Jehovah witnesses.

That is only half true, there are different levels of heaven,

Paul spoke about this.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

No sinners will enter in period.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Stop lying to yourself and others.

There is just one way, one truth and one life. JESUS.
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/8/2016 3:48:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:40:35 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:36:40 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:33:39 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

The heaven inhabited by the Biblical version of the deity would be my idea of hell, as it is a psychopath!

So you hold the same standards in this world, but you expect it to be different in heaven? Do you think that liars and murderers and thieves should be allowed in? Do you allow them into your home?

I would say that the one who has no standards and doesn't protect his home and family is more likely the psychopath.

No human, however bad, is as evil as that Biblical deity, if it exists, and what is attributed to it were true!

You make a lot of very broad statements. You don't even believe in God, yet you say that he is worse than any human? Wow, that's a big statement against someone you say does not exist.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/8/2016 3:49:15 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:40:35 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:36:40 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:33:39 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

The heaven inhabited by the Biblical version of the deity would be my idea of hell, as it is a psychopath!

So you hold the same standards in this world, but you expect it to be different in heaven? Do you think that liars and murderers and thieves should be allowed in? Do you allow them into your home?

I would say that the one who has no standards and doesn't protect his home and family is more likely the psychopath.

No human, however bad, is as evil as that Biblical deity, if it exists, and what is attributed to it were true!

You are relentless in your attack of the Almighty. Did you have vitriolic complications during your menopause? You are very nasty and bitter with someone you don't even believe in. Lol!!!
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/8/2016 4:12:42 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:48:20 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:40:35 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:36:40 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:33:39 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

The heaven inhabited by the Biblical version of the deity would be my idea of hell, as it is a psychopath!

So you hold the same standards in this world, but you expect it to be different in heaven? Do you think that liars and murderers and thieves should be allowed in? Do you allow them into your home?

I would say that the one who has no standards and doesn't protect his home and family is more likely the psychopath.

No human, however bad, is as evil as that Biblical deity, if it exists, and what is attributed to it were true!

You make a lot of very broad statements. You don't even believe in God, yet you say that he is worse than any human? Wow, that's a big statement against someone you say does not exist.

I said, IF it exists, and what is attributed to it is true! Only a complete psycho could flood a whole planet because it was having a temper tantrum!
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/8/2016 4:18:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:46:31 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:40:02 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

Heaven was messed up before Moses. Where do you thing Lucufer/Satan came from? The Angels were already battling it out in heaven in a power struggle and Lucifer was sent away to earth.

The final destination for all sinners save by Jesus is heaven. So heaven will be made up of saints and sinners and a few Jehovah witnesses.

That is only half true, there are different levels of heaven,

Paul spoke about this.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Cirinthians 12:2 New International Version
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.

Paul admits he is guessing. "I do not know--God knows".

John 14:2 New International Version
My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?

They will live in God's very house which has many rooms.

No sinners will enter in period.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Stop lying to yourself and others.

Why didn't you post the rest of the verse.

Corinthians 6:9-11

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[b] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

All are sinners and saints found in heaven.

Romans 3:23 New International Version
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

We are all sinners save by grace.
Ephesians 2:8 New International Version
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

1 John 1:8 New International Version
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

There is just one way, one truth and one life. JESUS.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,667
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1/8/2016 4:19:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

How have you determined "most"?

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

This analogous argument necessarily carries the implication that one has negligible or no control over what exists outside one's self and home and, therefore, must extend this limitation to God for it to remain applicable. If God is indeed the all-powerful and all-knowing creator of all, then all things that exist were necessarily created by God. This necessarily includes the people within this creation, as well as their minds, which includes intentions, will, desires, ambitions, demeanor, and empathy. This means that a thief or murderer is that way as a result of creation, which is necessarily known (prior to creation) by an all-knowing agent.

- God has already established who will meet the criteria required for ascent to Heaven, or to be 'saved'. If such a God exists, then this points to Calvinistic Predestination (https://en.wikipedia.org...) because that which we will be judged by is what has already been established by God.

- This also means that people who are unworthy of 'saving' in life (such as unbelievers) would necessarily remain (largely) the same and be incapable of positive change following death, or, that psychological factors (i.e. an inclination for violence, urge to steal, psychological disorders) that fueled these immoral behaviors will persist into the afterlife. If this is untrue, then a requirement to being saved prior to death in this life is arbitrary and judgment is based upon factors that are outside of the control of the individual. To emphasize my point, it would be like getting charged with vehicular manslaughter when you were in the back seat of the car.

The analogy also assumes that it is possible to cause harm to others in the afterlife, specifically following being 'saved'. The examples given include bodily harm to others and theft of personal property, which can only be demonstrated to be possible and coherent in this life. How can it be demonstrated the individuals can bring harm to each other in any conceivable way in the afterlife?

- An all-powerful and all-knowing agent would already either know of and be able to furnish a means of 'saving' any given person without permitting harm to others, provided the above assumption is valid. I would definitely like to see this assumption justified.

These necessary similarities must be justified in order for this argument to avoid committing the Weak Analogy logical fallacy (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...).

As related questions, what does it mean to be 'saved' in regard to one's sins? Is the only way to be 'saved' through faith in Jesus Christ? (these are for clarity, since people carry differing answers to these questions)
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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1/8/2016 4:54:59 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:48:20 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:40:35 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:36:40 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:33:39 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

The heaven inhabited by the Biblical version of the deity would be my idea of hell, as it is a psychopath!

So you hold the same standards in this world, but you expect it to be different in heaven? Do you think that liars and murderers and thieves should be allowed in? Do you allow them into your home?

I would say that the one who has no standards and doesn't protect his home and family is more likely the psychopath.

No human, however bad, is as evil as that Biblical deity, if it exists, and what is attributed to it were true!

You make a lot of very broad statements. You don't even believe in God, yet you say that he is worse than any human? Wow, that's a big statement against someone you say does not exist.

Didn't sweet baby jeebus waffle on about forgiveness and redemption?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,124
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1/8/2016 6:00:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

Morality predates Christianity and can be observed in the animal kingdom (is heaven open to animals as well?!), thus it has nothing to do with getting into the Christian heaven.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/8/2016 6:08:30 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 6:00:26 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

Morality predates Christianity and can be observed in the animal kingdom (is heaven open to animals as well?!), thus it has nothing to do with getting into the Christian heaven.

It has everything to do with morality, not our own righteousness, as though any of us can measure up....

It does have to do with faithfulness and faith. Obedience unto righteousness.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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1/8/2016 6:18:32 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:38:03 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

What effort does an omnipotent being wield to keep his domain safe and existent? By comparison, what effort does your average human wield to do the same? Based on the effort applied, whom has more reason to allow or disallow what?

Why in the world should it be based on the effort applied? Do rapists have more "right" to be let into the home of a strong man than a weak man because the strong man can more easily stop him from raping his family??? Did you think this through?

Why in the world should God allow evil into His home just because He is able to restrain them? Why can't the evil person change his way and stop being evil? Should not the responsibility be on the one who is evil?
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/8/2016 7:29:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 6:18:32 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:38:03 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

What effort does an omnipotent being wield to keep his domain safe and existent? By comparison, what effort does your average human wield to do the same? Based on the effort applied, whom has more reason to allow or disallow what?

Why in the world should it be based on the effort applied? Do rapists have more "right" to be let into the home of a strong man than a weak man because the strong man can more easily stop him from raping his family??? Did you think this through?

Why in the world should God allow evil into His home just because He is able to restrain them? Why can't the evil person change his way and stop being evil? Should not the responsibility be on the one who is evil?

Right on ethang5,

God provided a way through Jesus who even died for us while we were yet sinners.

Psalms 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

Psalms 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

Psalms 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

We have access to mercy, in Jesus, we have access to truth in Jesus, we are changed in Jesus.

Jesus said that not everyone who says to Him, Lord, Lord will enter in, but He who does the will of the Father.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

We continue with Him, learning, growing and maturing.

Psalms 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

This is why Jesus said:

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


I love the passage where Jesus says, "if you continue in my word, you are my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

(John 8:31-32)

He made a way....
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/8/2016 7:41:41 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 7:29:33 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 6:18:32 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:38:03 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

What effort does an omnipotent being wield to keep his domain safe and existent? By comparison, what effort does your average human wield to do the same? Based on the effort applied, whom has more reason to allow or disallow what?

Why in the world should it be based on the effort applied? Do rapists have more "right" to be let into the home of a strong man than a weak man because the strong man can more easily stop him from raping his family??? Did you think this through?

Why in the world should God allow evil into His home just because He is able to restrain them? Why can't the evil person change his way and stop being evil? Should not the responsibility be on the one who is evil?

Right on ethang5,

God provided a way through Jesus who even died for us while we were yet sinners.

Jesus died some 2000 years ago. All the generations after that were not even born. So how could they be forgiven for sins they never committed 2000 years ago.
If Jesus died for sinners, it had to be for sinners who were alive and sinning during his generation.

Psalms 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

Psalms 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

Psalms 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

We have access to mercy, in Jesus, we have access to truth in Jesus, we are changed in Jesus.

Jesus said that not everyone who says to Him, Lord, Lord will enter in, but He who does the will of the Father.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

We continue with Him, learning, growing and maturing.

Psalms 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

This is why Jesus said:

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


I love the passage where Jesus says, "if you continue in my word, you are my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

(John 8:31-32)

He made a way....
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,124
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1/8/2016 10:09:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 6:08:30 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 6:00:26 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

Morality predates Christianity and can be observed in the animal kingdom (is heaven open to animals as well?!), thus it has nothing to do with getting into the Christian heaven.

It has everything to do with morality, not our own righteousness, as though any of us can measure up....

It does have to do with faithfulness and faith. Obedience unto righteousness.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I think you've missed the point. Morality predates not just Christianity, but religion itself. Assuming for the sake of the argument that the Christian god exists (laugh), your god is not an authority on morality since it was known long, long, long before anyone ever uttered his name. I think you might have confused non believers pointing to the incoherence of an immoral god being the source of morality with complaining about morality.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/8/2016 10:23:14 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 10:09:54 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/8/2016 6:08:30 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/8/2016 6:00:26 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

Morality predates Christianity and can be observed in the animal kingdom (is heaven open to animals as well?!), thus it has nothing to do with getting into the Christian heaven.

It has everything to do with morality, not our own righteousness, as though any of us can measure up....

It does have to do with faithfulness and faith. Obedience unto righteousness.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I think you've missed the point. Morality predates not just Christianity, but religion itself. Assuming for the sake of the argument that the Christian god exists (laugh), your god is not an authority on morality since it was known long, long, long before anyone ever uttered his name. I think you might have confused non believers pointing to the incoherence of an immoral god being the source of morality with complaining about morality.

Yeah, people have always taken a stance that they are "good," and moral.

God laid the foundation in the bible for what true morality is...whether you believe it or not.

In fact, the ten commandments are a very good moral basis.

What parts of those do you find troubling?

What other ancient text laid a foundation for morality?

The earliest parts of the bible actually date back to the Iron age, and even further back with artifacts found where the earliest forms of Hebrew were pictograms which later were transcribed into script.

So provide evidence that the moral standards that are listed in the bible, are contained in any other ancient text.

I'll list the ten basic,

1. You shall have no other God's before me.
2 You shall not make any graven images or bow down to them.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath to Keep it Holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not kill.
7 You shall not commit adultry.
8. You shall not steal.
9 You shall not bear false witness.
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.

These are paraphrased but you can look them up in Ex. 20.
MaxSterling
Posts: 62
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1/8/2016 11:19:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

So why not just let those of us who have no interest in going into 'gods house' to do something other than eternal unending torture and destructions
"But why do you want REVENGE?!"

"I HAVE REASONS!!!!!"
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/8/2016 11:39:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 11:19:11 PM, MaxSterling wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

So why not just let those of us who have no interest in going into 'gods house' to do something other than eternal unending torture and destructions

I can't change your heart or your mind, that is between you and God.

You have your own choices to make. Although I would hope that you would consider that Jesus is the way and the truth.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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1/9/2016 12:40:48 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

Actually, as an atheist I generally find that Christian morality is nothing like moral enough.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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1/9/2016 12:48:58 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

So, what you're saying is that dishonest harmful people won't get into heaven. Gotcha.

"Jehovah"s witnesses are very strongly cultic in both doctrine and behaviour, thus fitting both categories of false doctrine and mind control."

http://www.cultwatch.com...

"The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness' organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. These make it non-Christian."

https://carm.org...

That seems to fit both categories for heaven.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
be_diligent
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1/9/2016 12:50:42 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/9/2016 12:40:48 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

Actually, as an atheist I generally find that Christian morality is nothing like moral enough.

Hi RuvDraba,

Do you mean biblical morality as contained in the ten commandments? Or what you see personally?

I think that the ten commandments are a very good basis for good morals.
RuvDraba
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1/9/2016 1:04:37 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/9/2016 12:50:42 AM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/9/2016 12:40:48 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.
Actually, as an atheist I generally find that Christian morality is nothing like moral enough.
Hi RuvDraba,
Hi BD,

Do you mean biblical morality as contained in the ten commandments? Or what you see personally?
I mean the full suite of canonical Christian moral thought, including various ideas expressed in the NT. Actually, modern Christian morality is often much better than you can find in the NT -- largely because modern secular morality is much better than the Bible represents.

I think that the ten commandments are a very good basis for good morals.
I think they're a low, simplistic and antiquated standard having more to do with ancient Israelite tribal membership than good human behaviour.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,124
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1/9/2016 1:34:15 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 10:23:14 PM, be_diligent wrote:

The Ten commandments represents an ancient version of morality. For instance, there is nothing against rape/slavery and there is no mention of equality of races/sexes.

There is much room for improvement.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bulproof
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1/9/2016 1:58:36 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 10:23:14 PM, be_diligent wrote:
God laid the foundation in the bible for what true morality is...whether you believe it or not.
Yeah, genocide and infanticide.
I'll stick with my far superior moral standards, thanks all the same.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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1/9/2016 12:29:47 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 6:18:32 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:38:03 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.

So let's look at this on a much smaller scale.

Let's say you own a house, (maybe you do or don't.) You set specific rules for those that you allow in. You wouldn't open your doors up to just anyone. If a known thief came to your door and asked you to let him in, of course you wouldn't comply, or if you have a family and a known criminal who has harmed others is at your door asking you to let them come in, you definitely wouldn't comply.

Most people strive to keep their home a happy a safe place. They protect their belonging in a world where we know that there are harmful and dishonest people. It this were not the case, our homes wouldn't require locked doors and windows.

So now, let's say that you want to enter into God's house, (His Kingdom.)

Why on earth do you think that He should let just anyone in?

Do you think heaven should be just like this world? Then it wouldn't be heaven, now would it?

So for those who believe that just anyone will be saved. Think again.

What effort does an omnipotent being wield to keep his domain safe and existent? By comparison, what effort does your average human wield to do the same? Based on the effort applied, whom has more reason to allow or disallow what?

Why in the world should it be based on the effort applied?

Because if it takes you no effort to create or protect, it takes no effort to rectify, and if I worked my rear off for it, I have MUCH more of a vested interest than some one or thing that doesn't.

Do rapists have more "right" to be let into the home of a strong man than a weak man because the strong man can more easily stop him from raping his family??? Did you think this through?

Yes, which is why the exact opposite of that thought process is the important part.

Why in the world should God allow evil into His home just because He is able to restrain them?

Think about that for a second. The better question is how He can allow evil if it literally takes no effort for Him to get rid of it and correct the wrong that such an evil has created.

Why can't the evil person change his way and stop being evil? Should not the responsibility be on the one who is evil?

Sure, that would be nice, heck, it would be awesome. But in the scope of omnipotence which is where I am making the comparison, and I ask what vested interest does something with omnipotence and eternity have in their creation?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
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1/9/2016 1:05:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/8/2016 3:26:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
Most non-believers complain about the rules that are set in place by God in Christ that require morality.
hahahahaha.
No wait, I'm sorry............hahahahahaha.
Oh dear.....hahahahahahas.
Did you read what you wrote?.................hahahahahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin